LAXintl
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Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:03 pm

The move away from the Puget Sound region continues.

Boeing has announced it will open engineering centers in Long Beach and Charleston, and eventually possibly one in Ukraine to supplement its Moscow design center as well.

Boeing says it will initially transfer 300 employees from the Seattle region to Southern California to facilitate the opening.

Last month Boeing also said it would transfer some 1,500 IT related positions away from the Pacific Northwest to St. Louis and Charleston.

Story:
http://seattletimes.com/html/busines...eingengineeringxml.html?prmid=4939

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From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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Polot
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:13 pm

Charleston makes sense, but I got to say I am surprised to see them growing in Long Beach.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:07 pm

Yes SoCal is interesting. Certainly not a cheap place to do business, but I suspect the fact that many sub contractors are in the region and the area has deep routes in aerospace probably helps make the case.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
JHwk
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:12 pm

SoCal likely makes sense given their huge existing footprint on the space and defense side; seems like Boeing is trying to become more agile...
 
BlatantEcho
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:45 am

No unions in those two locations as far as I know.
Article said engineers in Russia were 1/3 to 1/5 the cost.

Good for Boeing to cut costs as aggressively as possible. Smart!
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:14 am

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 4):
No unions in those two locations as far as I know.

California is considered a union stronghold and their are IAM Locals in Long Beach and other aerospace areas in the state.

And Boeing's SC facility was until late 2009 organized under the IAM.
 
cornutt
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:08 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
California is considered a union stronghold and their are IAM Locals in Long Beach and other aerospace areas in the state.

We're talking engineers, though. My recollection is that none of the SoCal engineers are unionized (maybe some of them were in Anaheim; I don't recall now). Long Beach is a heritage McDac site.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:32 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Boeing says it will initially transfer 300 employees from the Seattle region to Southern California to facilitate the opening.

Just to clarify, they are not moving employees. They are transferring work by laying union engineers off in Washington and hiring new non union engineers in California because non union labor is theoretically cheaper.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
pianos101
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:39 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
And Boeing's SC facility was until late 2009 organized under the IAM.

That was the mechanis. Engineers were never in IAM. There were no engineers at that time.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:17 pm

Just some context.

The engineers in SC are part of the Propulsion System Division (PSD) - the folks who's responsible for the installation of the engines. Since their philosophy is to have Engineering support each FA site it is logical to give them additional work besides production work. It's another way to keep them abreast in skills and knowledge. You're designing skills can erode pretty fast by just supporting production work.

So Cal will get the post production work for all the out of production models. And important but really not glamorous jobs.

Seems like they want to keep some footprint in many states. Specially in CA where you do have some access to the local Universities and Colleges.

As for Russia and Ukraine, it's one way of tapping in the local talent there. Unlike Japan or Korea where you already have reliable partners to do some designing for you, you have to establish your own design center in Russia.

I see India as the next potential for getting skilled designers. It may not be for a while but the potential is there.

bt
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max999
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:33 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 7):
Just to clarify, they are not moving employees. They are transferring work by laying union engineers off in Washington and hiring new non union engineers in California because non union labor is theoretically cheaper.

That's cruel...seems like Boeing is sticking another middle finger up at the unions in Seattle.

From my experience, many other companies going to lower cost locations usually give their staff an opportunity to keep their job by moving to the new place. The bet is that not everyone will want to move so they'll get to still hire some new staff at lower salaries.
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sxf24
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:37 pm

Most, if not all, of the engineering work for the out-of-production MDC models was done in Long Beach. As that work statement continues to shrink, it makes sense to shift similar work down there and maintain the base. I would be surprised to see many layoffs in the Puget Sound. The demand for skills is still strong, the workforce is old, and anyone who is adaptable should be able to find a job.
 
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glideslope
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:04 pm

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 4):

No unions in those two locations as far as I know.
Article said engineers in Russia were 1/3 to 1/5 the cost.

Good for Boeing to cut costs as aggressively as possible. Smart!

This is not about Unions. It's about making sure you have the Military/Aerospace recourses in the right place.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:13 pm

Quoting pianos101 (Reply 8):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):And Boeing's SC facility was until late 2009 organized under the IAM.
That was the mechanis. Engineers were never in IAM.

I thought the engineer's union was SPEEA. But, they are not in SC, either.

Why on Earth would Boeing want to get back into SoCal.? I thought they were selling off the facilities in LB, once the C-17 line closes. SoCal, or anywhere else in California is not a very good climate for business, better off moving to Texas.
 
pygmalion
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:43 pm

Quoting pianos101 (Reply 8):

It wasnt a Boeing site then either.
 
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par13del
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:07 pm

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 4):
Article said engineers in Russia were 1/3 to 1/5 the cost.

Good for Boeing to cut costs as aggressively as possible. Smart!

Well the initial cost of that is still being calculated based on the design issues with the 787, if it has to be spread over 5 years or so was it really cheaper, cost is cost regardless of whether one anticipated errors or not.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:07 pm

Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 19):
It wasnt a Boeing site then either.

Boeing agreed to buy the plant on 7 July 2009 and owned it on 4 August 2009. The vote to decertify the IAM was taken on 10 September 2009.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:42 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 1):
Charleston makes sense, but I got to say I am surprised to see them growing in Long Beach.

Much as everybody likes to proclaim that California is dead or dying, it is actually rather thriving. And mostly because it is a very desirable place to live. Yes it has costs, but people still very much like living here and very much choose to be here if they can afford it. And highly paid engineers etc. can afford to live here.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Yes SoCal is interesting. Certainly not a cheap place to do business, but I suspect the fact that many sub contractors are in the region and the area has deep routes in aerospace probably helps make the case.

Which argues the question of "what is cheap"? If you have much of what you need for a task, if you have a very large talent pool to draw from, if you have on going research nearby, there are savings and synergies that occur that lower the overall cost of a task. And also the fact that finding and keeping good engineers is already difficult for the aerospace sector, this helps them keep that base.

But I guarantee that Boeing will manage those costs and continue to try to move them to lower cost locations or improve other locations capabilities and talent base to meet and improve those savings. California definitely has to not stay arrogant and stagnant and work to improve business sectors.

Quoting JHwk (Reply 3):
SoCal likely makes sense given their huge existing footprint on the space and defense side; seems like Boeing is trying to become more agile...

  
And is it not just their "existing footprint", it is the fact that many highly skilled and talented people still like to and prefer to live here. It means more access to highly skilled people (not knocking any other state or saying other people in other states are not equally skilled).

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 9):
Seems like they want to keep some footprint in many states. Specially in CA where you do have some access to the local Universities and Colleges.

I agree, you have to include the many excellent university are in the state, most nations don't have as many highly rated universities as California does. The talent and research available via partnerships and intern programs etc. are really very important.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 15):
Why on Earth would Boeing want to get back into SoCal.? I thought they were selling off the facilities in LB, once the C-17 line closes. SoCal, or anywhere else in California is not a very good climate for business, better off moving to Texas.

Boeing has a lot of work locations here in California. And staying does not preclude them from closing and selling the LB manufacturing site. And finally: The rumors of California's death are greatly exaggerated!
(And yes, Texas is a fine state, not knocking it)

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Stitch
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:18 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 19):
Much as everybody likes to proclaim that California is dead or dying, it is actually rather thriving. And mostly because it is a very desirable place to live. Yes it has costs, but people still very much like living here and very much choose to be here if they can afford it. And highly paid engineers etc. can afford to live here.

I recall reading in years past that one of the difficulties Boeing was having moving engineering positions to Charleston from Washington and California is that those engineers didn't want to live in SC.
 
cornutt
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:37 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 20):
I recall reading in years past that one of the difficulties Boeing was having moving engineering positions to Charleston from Washington and California is that those engineers didn't want to live in SC.

That's true. However, I can assure you that there are plenty of educated and experienced engineers already in the region who will happily take those jobs. Same thing happens in Huntsville.
 
sweair
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:57 am

Phantom works are in CA right? They are Bs equivalent of the skunk works?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:25 am

Quoting sweair (Reply 22):
Phantom works are in CA right? They are Bs equivalent of the skunk works?

They are Boeing's version of Lockheed-Martin's "Skunk Works" and their HQ is in St. Louis, Missouri (as they were inherited from McD). They do have projects at many Boeing locations around the US (I believe the Seattle office is on the Duwamish River).
 
dynamicsguy
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RE: Boeing To Open Engineering Facilities In CA & SC

Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:59 am

Quoting sweair (Reply 22):
Phantom works are in CA right? They are Bs equivalent of the skunk works?

Yes, but they only work on defence projects. Boeing Research and Technology is the Commercial Airplanes R&D organisation. This announcement is about the Boeing Commercial Airplanes side of the company. Very interesting developments - more interesting than what has been reported.