Gonzalo
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Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:46 am

According to Swiss CEO Harry Hohmeister the new 777 300ER will have the unpopular seat config of 3-4-3 in Economy, a decision that is not "final" yet, but is the "most likely" according to him.

The First Class section will have a 1-2-1 config.

Is this a disappointing move for the Swiss customers ?

People commenting this news in the media are talking about a "step back" for Swiss....


http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...to-join-b777-300er-ten-across-club

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817Dreamliiner
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:05 pm

And let the "3-4-3" bashing begin...  
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:05 pm

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):

Is this a disappointing move for the Swiss customers

I think It is a loss for the customer, no matter which airline chooses this seating layout. Alas, there are few carriers that are still opting for the 9 abreast vs 10 abreast. Stock holders and bean counters are the only winners.
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:07 pm

Reported here:

Boeing Confirms SWISS' 777 Order (by NYC777 May 23 2013 in Civil Aviation)
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:23 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 1):
And let the "3-4-3" bashing begin

I do not think there will be many proponents of 3-4-3, that will make comments, but I am sure there will be some.
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:26 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 1):
And let the "3-4-3" bashing begin...

Perhaps because some people find it rather uncomfortable.    I do, I'm not particularly tall or overweight, but I do have broad shoulders and dislike rubbing shoulders with the person next to me for hours on end. I like Swiss, but this would put me off flying with them on the 77W aircraft when I can fly another airline for broadly the same price and have greater comfort.


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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:33 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 5):
Perhaps because some people find it rather uncomfortable.

Perhaps.

Aviation enthusiasts like people here on a.net probably notice the difference but last week I asked my boss (he travels a lot in Y but is no aviation enthusiast at all) if he ever noticed some difference between the seats on the A330, 747 and 777 and he hasn't.
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:36 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 5):
Perhaps because some people find it rather uncomfortable.    I do, I'm not particularly tall or overweight, but I do have broad shoulders and dislike rubbing shoulders with the person next to me for hours on end.

I was always under the impression the seats are the same width, its just the aisle that are narrower, is this not correct?
 
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:04 pm

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 7):
I was always under the impression the seats are the same width, its just the aisle that are narrower, is this not correct?

Depends on the carrier - some are narrower, some have narrower arm rests, and all have narrower aisles. The result is the same - less personal space, be it the person next to you, the cabin wall or the aisle.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 6):
Aviation enthusiasts like people here on a.net probably notice the difference but last week I asked my boss (he travels a lot in Y but is no aviation enthusiast at all) if he ever noticed some difference between the seats on the A330, 747 and 777 and he hasn't.

Many people (ordinary travelers) do notice the difference when it comes to be cramped. If you are of a very small frame then there will be nothing to notice.


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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:15 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 2):
Alas, there are few carriers that are still opting for the 9 abreast vs 10 abreast. Stock holders and bean counters are the only winners.

Two exceptions in recent times are TG and GA. Both specified 3-3-3 Y class seating in their B777-300ERs.
 
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:18 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 2):
I think It is a loss for the customer, no matter which airline chooses this seating layout. Alas, there are few carriers that are still opting for the 9 abreast vs 10 abreast. Stock holders and bean counters are the only winners.

That is only half of the story. The other half is that more seats let airlines sell more cheaper tickets, and that is exactly what most customers want. A minority of economy class customers is willing to pay for comfort, and that is why premium economy is taking hold.
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:19 pm

I have flown now 3 sectors on EKs B77Ws in Y class DXB-LOS-DXB and I dont find any problem what so ever with the comfort level of their seats nor their leg room.
 
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:19 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 6):
Aviation enthusiasts like people here on a.net probably notice the difference but last week I asked my boss (he travels a lot in Y but is no aviation enthusiast at all) if he ever noticed some difference between the seats on the A330, 747 and 777 and he hasn't.

There are many people that do...

My mum is not a regular long haul flyer, but has been lucky enough in recent months to go on two long haul holidays to India and Kenya.

Flew Air Kenya from London in the 3-3-3 config and was full of praise of them, except for a rather lengthy delay coming home, last month went on a tour of India and took Jet Airways77W in the 3-4-3 config London to Mumbai...

I was the lucky one to pick her up from LHR (sarcasm), and all I had for the 1.5hr drive home was how the seats were so narrow and had the most unfortable journey of her life! My mum is tiny at about 5ft2 and around 55-60kg. She said the seats with Ryanair and easyJet were wider and more comfy.
 
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:20 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 8):
If you are of a very small frame then there will be nothing to notice.

except if the people on either side of you are of a larger size...
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:51 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 13):
except if the people on either side of you are of a larger size...

True!


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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:57 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 1):
And let the "3-4-3" bashing begin...

It's not even a choice at this point--it's becoming the standard.

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 9):

Two exceptions in recent times are TG and GA. Both specified 3-3-3 Y class seating in their B777-300ERs.

I don't know what either were thinking but if there are any airlines in the world that must have high denisty seating on their widebodies, it's TG and GA. If everyone else is using high density aircraft to serve Thailand and Indonesia, I don't know where TG/GA think they're going to drive a premium.
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Carfield
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:58 pm

Ten abreast seating - just wonder if Swiss have routes that can support a heavy load year round. Zurich is a hub, but not sure if it is really that popular.

Anyway, I am curious if Swiss will compensate the ten abreast seating with more generous seat pitch 32-34 inches like Emirates and Qatar or is it going "Air Canada" or "AA" track featuring 31 inches of legroom.

IMHO I think full service airlines need to differentiate themselves from LCC and charter airlines, so I hope Swiss will have at least 32 inches of legroom, or else, more passengers will flock to the Middle East Airlines, with Emirates using A380s on the Zurich flights next year.

With the ten abreast sitting in 777s (9 abreast on 787 and A350), flying a 757 across the Atlantic Ocean no longer sounds too bad.

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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:18 pm

Although I certainly don't look forward to travel in such configuration, lets not forget that Swissair also had a high reputation and followed the trend when seating configurations went from 9 to 10 and 8 to 9 with the B747 and DC-10 respectively. Swiss qualities compared to other airlines are not limited to the number of seats in each abreast.
 
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:22 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 10):

That is only half of the story. The other half is that more seats let airlines sell more cheaper tickets, and that is exactly what most customers want. A minority of economy class customers is willing to pay for comfort, and that is why premium economy is taking hold.

Segmenting your markets is almost always good and is basic business really. Airlines have figured out that there are people who are wholly price sensitive, even if it is a few bucks and there are people that will pay a reasonable premium to have a bit more space. They make more money by cramming more of the first group in a given space and selling marked up tickets to the second group to get more comfortable seats.

This is done in every industry in some fashion.
 
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:37 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 9):
Two exceptions in recent times are TG and GA. Both specified 3-3-3 Y class seating in their B777-300ERs.

MS offers 3-3-3 Y class seating as well.
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:45 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
I don't know what either were thinking but if there are any airlines in the world that must have high denisty seating on their widebodies, it's TG and GA.

I was referring to these two airlines because they have either recently introduced B777-300ERs into their fleets (as with TG) or will introduce this plane later in the year (GA). GA will be using the B777-300ER to operate LGW-Jakarta-SYD. Thank goodness it has retained 9-across seating as this is a really long route.
 
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:51 pm

3-4-3 is the future, if we like it or not. Ofcourse I'd love to see a 2-2-2 config in economy on the 777 but the trend is set and more and more companies are going to order 3-4-3. And in a couple years time some genious will come up with 3-5-3!

I'll just settle with my sheepskin seat in the front!

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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:06 pm

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move? 

Man, I love those rhetoric questions.
Bad move for sure, unless you are a kid or a slim dwarf.

There goes Swiss reputation as a premium airline...
 
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:07 pm

Quoting airbuster (Reply 21):
3-4-3 is the future, if we like it or not

Well, for some perhaps. I will chose an alternate option, for which I do not mind paying a moderate premium.


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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:11 pm

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 12):

Flew Air Kenya from London in the 3-3-3 config and was full of praise of them, except for a rather lengthy delay coming home, last month went on a tour of India and took Jet Airways77W in the 3-4-3 config London to Mumbai...

Are you sure the Jet 9W was 3-4-3? They had announced plans to make them 3-4-3, but Seat Guru, Seat Expert, and Jet's own website seat maps all show them as 3-3-3 still.
 
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:57 pm

It's not really surprising to see LX go for 3-4-3.

Beyond what most people believe about Swiss quality, LX has recently gone for high density seating when they could get away with it. They were the first (or one of the) airline to introduce the Recaro slim seats on their short haul fleet.

Out of the European carriers who operate 777s, this leaves only BA and TK have not made the move to 3-4-3 and I would be very surprised to not to see them make the move in the future.

Y is all about selling the cheapest ticket and 3-4-3 seating goes towards that. I am sure only about 10-15% of the customers will notice that the seating is tighter, and those are probably the target market for premium economy.

Besides, going for 3-4-3 doesn't mean you can't offer a premium soft product or hard product or for example offer better meals than your competitors and still get away with it. Most people will notice a better meal or IFE before noticing there is an extra seat in each aisle.
 
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:11 pm

Like it or not, it is my opinion that 10 abreast seating is the future standard of economy class seating for long haul aircraft. And for people with wide shoulders like me it is an awful situation, but the economics of passenger purchasing decisions have made this configuration almost mandatory to remain competitive and hope to garner a profit.
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:24 pm

In 2012, 75% of all 777 deliveries were 10 abreast
 
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:29 pm

Quoting mbm3 (Reply 26):
Like it or not, it is my opinion that 10 abreast seating is the future standard of economy class seating for long haul aircraft.
Quoting queb (Reply 27):
In 2012, 75% of all 777 deliveries were 10 abreast

And that is it exactly!

If an airline were able to garner a higher fare with few/more comfortable seats, then it would happen. But the Customer has shown time and time again, he will not pay a higher fare for the same product ... the only difference being a wider seat.

Much like older guys on here remember when the B747, L1011 and DC-10 all added one seat per row 30 years ago, the younger generation on here will only remember when the B777 was nine abreast! It's just a matter of time.
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kaitak
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:00 pm

At the risk of being accused of "stating the bleeding obvious" (!), the 77W is a long aircraft; just to take EK as an example, it has about 33 rows of Y class seats in the 3-class layout and 40 (give or take) in the two class layout; go back to 9 abreast and that's a good chunk of revenue to throw away - effectively 30-40 seats. If you were an airline bean-counter, would you rather go to the board and recommend that they do this, when they can offset this with good IFE. It's a no brainer really. Sure, the 9 abreast is more attractive, but at the end of the day, the industry is very competitive, many econoomies are going through hard times and the consumer is very price conscious. If they can get away with 10 abreast, they will (likewise, 9 abreast on the 787 - even BA is doing that!)

Quoting runway23 (Reply 25):
Besides, going for 3-4-3 doesn't mean you can't offer a premium soft product or hard product or for example offer better meals than your competitors and still get away with it. Most people will notice a better meal or IFE before noticing there is an extra seat in each aisle.

Absolutely; I've flown on EK's 777s with 3 classes and it wasn't that bad at all. Agree 100%. Conversely, I remember, years ago, flying with CX and looking at the backs of seats as I walked to mine, cursing that there was no PTVs ... wasn't worried about the seat pitch!

Quoting mbm3 (Reply 26):
Like it or not, it is my opinion that 10 abreast seating is the future standard of economy class seating for long haul aircraft

On the 777, yes! God help us if they ever try to squeeze 10 abreast into a 787!
 
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:01 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
It's not even a choice at this point--it's becoming the standard.
Quoting HECA (Reply 19):
MS offers 3-3-3 Y class seating as well.

Delta has 3-3-3 in it's 777s. Although, I haven't sat in the back yet.
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AT
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:06 pm

For me, legroom and recline are more important than pitch. I would take a 10 abreast 777 with decent legroom (e.g., Emirates) than a 9 abreast with 31" pitch. Problem is that some airlines (Air France / KLM) have the worst of both- 10 abreast AND horrible legroom. As long as Swiss stays closer to the Emirates model than the AF/KL, they would, I think, be okay.

One hybrid compromise (which admittedly won't work as why would an airline want to stop halfway?) would be to have a
3-3-3- in part of the cabin and 3-4-3 in the rest. That way they still fit in some extra seats and then prioritize seating (e.g., taller/larger persons, frequent fliers, higher fare paying pax get priority in the 3-3-3 zone).
 
kaitak
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:00 pm

Quoting AT (Reply 31):
One hybrid compromise (which admittedly won't work as why would an airline want to stop halfway?) would be to have a
3-3-3- in part of the cabin and 3-4-3 in the rest. That way they still fit in some extra seats and then prioritize seating (e.g., taller/larger persons, frequent fliers, higher fare paying pax get priority in the 3-3-3 zone).

I think that's actually a very good idea; I think it would actually be a good idea for an airline looking to dip its toe into the long haul lo-co market; by having the rear cabin in a 3-4-3 layout (and let's assume we're talking about the 777 here), they could have BOB food, pay per view IFE and other limitations (pay for baggage, for example), but for a considerably lower fare.

Interestingly, the idea of differentiating between different levels of Economy Class is not new; back in the early 1970s, one carrier tried to do that - have a cheaper rear cabin with 10 abreast (on 747s), but the rest of the cabin in 9 abreast. IATA rejected it. The airline was Aer Lingus.
 
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:05 pm

10-across seems to be the logical move these days.

As eluded to by others, the ability to add single seat per row can amount to 30 something extra seats. That is large revenue potential.

Anyhow this is nothing new. When things like DC-10/L-1011 came out many were 8-across. Over time they went to 9 or even 10. The 747 came out and was 9-across by many airlines before they adopt 10-across.

Anyhow, at the end, very few consumers will really care. Most are simply ultimately interested in good price to get from A to B. Pretty simple.
 
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:06 pm

Definitely not a bad move, they are keeping up with the times. The highest ranking factor (from numerous numerous surveys) for Y is price. With the ever rising costs of flight, airlines have to find means of keeping economy competitive on price, hence they have to put in more seats to keep cost efficiencies in place.

Though to those who complain bitterly about 10 abreast economy on the 777, it's you premium economy is targeting...i.e. the economy passenger who is willing to pay some more for better comfort (interestingly, this was the original role of business/intermediate class a few decades ago) and swiss is considering it as well.

Not sure if it was mentioned in that article, but the final decision will be made in 2014. It's still all under deliberation, though a premium economy cabin will definitely guarantee 10 abreast is the way forward for Swiss.
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waly777
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:07 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 33):
Anyhow, at the end, very few consumers will really care. Most are simply ultimately interested in good price to get from A to B. Pretty simple.

Precisely!
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:39 pm

Quoting waly777 (Reply 34):
Definitely not a bad move, they are keeping up with the times. The highest ranking factor (from numerous numerous surveys) for Y is price. With the ever rising costs of flight, airlines have to find means of keeping economy competitive on price, hence they have to put in more seats to keep cost efficiencies in place.

  

Ten years from now, *everyone* will be flying 10 abreast in Y, *everyone*.


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MAS777
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:14 pm

It amazes me that as airline enthusiasts, many here seem to have just resigned to the fact that 3-4-3 should be the expected and the 'norm' - despite what clearly is a reduction in space and comfort no matter what arguments 'for' are..
 
waly777
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:39 pm

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 37):
It amazes me that as airline enthusiasts, many here seem to have just resigned to the fact that 3-4-3 should be the expected and the 'norm' - despite what clearly is a reduction in space and comfort no matter what arguments 'for' are..

Ah but it is either 3-4-3 or 3-3-3 with much more expensive fares and airlines cannot afford to out price themselves out of the market as their competitors will very quickly attract pax that leave them. Comfort and space rank lowly on the factors Y pax look at before purchasing a ticket. Price is number 1. There is what a Y pax wants, and then there's what a Y pax is willing to pay for. Airlines listen to the latter.

Or do you have an alternative suggestion? Fuel was 14% of operating costs 10 years ago, today its 35% on average....long haul airlines have that as even higher %. In 2003 years ago, crude oil price was $28.8 per barrel....for 2013, it is forecasted to be $109.5 (these are IATA figures). By 2020...it is predicted to be roughly $150-160 per barrel.
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:25 pm

Quoting airbuster (Reply 21):
n a couple years time some genious will come up with 3-5-3!

Actually some other thread has a reference to that in the context of future A380 layouts! Argh!
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:43 pm

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 7):
I was always under the impression the seats are the same width, its just the aisle that are narrower, is this not correct?

No, you can't generate enough space for an additional seat by only shrinking the aisle width. Even if the seat cushion is close to the same width, the armrests are narrower and the gap between the seats is narrower.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 28):
Much like older guys on here remember when the B747, L1011 and DC-10 all added one seat per row 30 years ago, the younger generation on here will only remember when the B777 was nine abreast! It's just a matter of time.

The difference is that 10-abreast on the 747 and 9-abreast on the DC-10 and L-1011 is better than 10-abreast on the 777. The other difference is that people are larger and usually heavier now than 30 years ago. Obesity is a much more serious problem today than it was then.

Quoting HECA (Reply 19):
MS offers 3-3-3 Y class seating as well.

Their now-retired MS 772s were 3-4-2, one of the very few 777 operators with that configuration.
 
sankaps
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:47 pm

Quoting AT (Reply 31):
One hybrid compromise (which admittedly won't work as why would an airline want to stop halfway?) would be to have a 3-3-3- in part of the cabin and 3-4-3 in the rest. That way they still fit in some extra seats and then prioritize seating (e.g., taller/larger persons, frequent fliers, higher fare paying pax get priority in the 3-3-3 zone).
Quoting kaitak (Reply 32):
Interestingly, the idea of differentiating between different levels of Economy Class is not new; back in the early 1970s, one carrier tried to do that - have a cheaper rear cabin with 10 abreast (on 747s), but the rest of the cabin in 9 abreast. IATA rejected it. The airline was Aer Lingus.

Finnair had this on their MD11s... the front section of economy was 3-4-2, and the rear 3-4-3. Both sold as "economy", no differentiation in marketing.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:54 pm

Quoting waly777 (Reply 38):
Ah but it is either 3-4-3 or 3-3-3 with much more expensive fares and airlines cannot afford to out price themselves out of the market as their competitors will very quickly attract pax that leave them.

You are forgetting that there is another option: fly an airline operating the A330/340 family, or 747/767. That is my choice.


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Motorhussy
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:48 pm

So Swiss will have 3-4-3.

I'm sure, being Swiss, that it will have a relaxing cabin decor and layout, decent legroom, a good ratio of wc's to pax, excellent IFE, impeccable Y-class food & wine as well as their usual cabin service with aplomb.

3-3-3 is more desirable on a Triple-7 but there are mitigating factors to the discomfort of 10-abreast.
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AT
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:12 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 33):
As eluded to by others, the ability to add single seat per row can amount to 30 something extra seats. That is large revenue potential.

But is it just a simple addition in most cases? I recall Emirates being very emphatic that while the 777s were gong to be 10 abreast, the legroom was going to be a few inches more. So while you gain one seat per row, you also probably lose the equivalent of at least one, possible two rows (i.e., 10-20 seats in all)

But it seems in the more recent cases, the airlines are just dumping in the extra seat, but without any added legroom.
 
aerokiwi
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:23 am

Quoting incitatus (Reply 10):
That is only half of the story. The other half is that more seats let airlines sell more cheaper tickets, and that is exactly what most customers want.

Well there goes their yield then. And can you actually point to a case of a 10-abreast 77W airline charging less than a 9-abreast 77W airline? The only one I can think of that charges a bit more is SQ, otherwise it's all horses for courses.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 33):
Anyhow, at the end, very few consumers will really care. Most are simply ultimately interested in good price to get from A to B. Pretty simple.

I care. I didn't used to, but now I do. I'm just not willing to tolerate 10 abreast on anything over 4 or so hours. SO yes, I'll pay more.
 
BLRAviation
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:53 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 5):
Perhaps because some people find it rather uncomfortable. I do, I'm not particularly tall or overweight,

Amen. I am heavy and need 18.5" or higher for long distance. I can do the 17" of a 737 for 2.5~3 hours max. I cannot afford J, but probably can a little extra for a Premium Y, but I observe most airlines that have a 10 abreast economy section, do not have a Y+.

I do not fly EK, 9W or EY for this reason. SQ is my first choice and QR will be second.
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incitatus
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:19 am

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 45):
Well there goes their yield then. And can you actually point to a case of a 10-abreast 77W airline charging less than a 9-abreast 77W airline? The only one I can think of that charges a bit more is SQ, otherwise it's all horses for courses.

Read again. I did not say cheaper tickets. I said more cheaper tickets. An airline with a more dense cabin can have more of its seats go for the lowest fares.

Overall the yield will be lower, but that is multiplied by more passengers resulting in higher revenue.
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ChazPilot
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:00 am

As mentioned many times already - this will become the norm on almost all airlines sooner rather than later. Even the traditionalists like CX will fold when they realize that their competitors haven't lost pax. to their 3-4-3 configs and thus they (the traditionalists) are just missing out on extra revenue.

The only thing likely to challenge this configuration (if only in lawsuit happy counties like USA and Britain) is if enough pax. flying long haul in this config. start coming down with DVTs and can form a class action lawsuit claiming the airline's greed came at their health cost.
 
intermodal64
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RE: Swiss 773 Will Have 3-4-3 Seat Config...Bad Move?

Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:17 am

Quoting Carfield (Reply 16):
With the ten abreast sitting in 777s (9 abreast on 787 and A350), flying a 757 across the Atlantic Ocean no longer sounds too bad.

So true! I prefer a normal-density narrow-body over a high-density wide-body. Wide bodies were great when they meant more personal space. Without that, they just become unbearable. Meanwhile, I'll stick with the 767 and the A-330 for the next few years (until they go 8 across and 9 across).

So strange . . . economy cabin comfort standards are decided by people who fly business class, and premium economy pricing is decided by people who don't buy airline tickets.

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