sierra3tango
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Aircraft 'keys'

Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:31 pm

Was watching the following

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFy5PSF_OkI

About delivery of BA's first? 744 in about 1990. Very dated but quite amusing in many ways in the light of time passing.

Towards the end there is a scene of Lord King (BA Chairman at the time) signing a delivery acceptance doc and then being given keys to the aircraft.

What (within / without the aircraft) does such a key actually lock / unlock?

Does the key isolate systems? and how secure are such keys?
 
JoePatroni707
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:35 pm

Cockpit door if anything. Its a symbolic, prank. I remember once a new hire flight attendant was in the First Class galley and I told her we would be delayed because the captain forgot the keys to the ignition, and I asked her to go to ops and ask for the spare keys.....Yea she was that easy, in more ways than that.
 
flyingturtle
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:52 pm

Quoting sierra3tango (Thread starter):

As I've read on that forum a long time ago, aircraft do not have keys.   

A/C get seals on the doors. If a seal is broken, the A/C will (probably) get checked if something has been tampered with.



David
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torontofly
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:53 pm

Old Russian-built aircraft like Tu-154 have keys for main passenger doors and baggage compartment doors. It was a procedure in Russia describing how to store and hand over the keys. Usually, during preparation to flight cockpit crew receives keys from maintenance crew and transfers back to maintenance crew after arrival. When aircraft is parked or stored all doors have to be locked.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:21 pm

All pilots and flight attendants had cockpit keys prior to 9/11. After that date the airlines changed the locks on the cockpit doors and new keys issued to certain people--but not to us. We use the key now to unlock various cabin compartments where the ladies store their purses, the emergency medical kits and a few other things. Mine is brass and says 'BOEING" on it--so after I retired I had the key gold plated and turned into a tie bar. Gets a lot of attention. We had to turn in a key when we left but all of had about 5-6 of them stashed in various cubbyholes in our tote bags.
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brilondon
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:40 pm

Where do they keep the hide a key? Inside the front luggage door?
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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:07 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 5):
Where do they keep the hide a key? Inside the front luggage door?

Back in the early 70's with the 747-100 we kept one stashed in an oxygen canister compartment at the top of the stairs....but that is LONG gone.
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zanl188
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:31 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 2):
As I've read on that forum a long time ago, aircraft do not have keys.

Airliners typically do not have ignition keys, however many other aircraft do.
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Woodreau
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:55 pm

On some aircraft, a key is used to unlock the flight deck door to gain access to the flight deck on the ground or to lock it if it is going to be left unattended. Everyone seems to have this key - rampers, aircraft cleaners, flight attendants, mechanics, pilots, etc.

In flight, a separate lock is used to lock the flight deck door, and the key that you use on the ground does not work in this lock.
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rwy04lga
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:08 pm

When I was a new hire, someone tried that stunt on me (keys to the runway)....didn't work.
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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:37 pm

I still have my MSP and JFK jetway keys from the late 70's and early 80's. Not that they work anymore. eBay here I come!
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sturmovik
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:45 am

We do have ignition keys for our C172s at the flight school.. 
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AADC10
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:24 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 2):
As I've read on that forum a long time ago, aircraft do not have keys.

There are keys for the liquor cabinets.
 
Triple7Lr
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:43 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 4):
I have a key just like that. We used to use it on DC9 cockpit doors.

[Edited 2013-06-08 19:45:13]
 
seven3seven
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:33 am

At my airline our airplanes have ignition keys. With over 500 a/c its getting tougher and tougher to make sure I have the right ones. I've got 3 or 4 dozen in the back of my car somewhere.

And its really a pain when I leave them at the hotel. Ugh, how many times I've had to make that PA saying how we're gonna be delayed, I forgot the keys.
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CrimsonNL
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:38 am

Lots of private jets have keys to lock the cabin and compartment doors!

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SOBHI51
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:32 am

It's like honoring a person by giving him/her the key of the city. Just a symbolic act.
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grimey
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:17 pm

Quoting sierra3tango (Thread starter):
Towards the end there is a scene of Lord King (BA Chairman at the time) signing a delivery acceptance doc and then being given keys to the aircraft.

He looked liked he didn't even know what the keys were for.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:39 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 2):

A/C get seals on the doors. If a seal is broken, the A/C will (probably) get checked if something has been tampered with

Some stations, notably BKK, do put seals on the doors to see if they were broken--trouble is the put so many on that don't remove the old ones it's hard to tell which are new and which are old.
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flyingturtle
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:06 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 18):
Some stations, notably BKK, do put seals on the doors to see if they were broken--trouble is the put so many on that don't remove the old ones it's hard to tell which are new and which are old.

Is putting a date on the seal such a big problem?

Quoting sturmovik (Reply 11):
We do have ignition keys for our C172s at the flight school..

Yeah. 



David
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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:50 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 18):
Some stations, notably BKK, do put seals on the doors to see if they were broken--trouble is the put so many on that don't remove the old ones it's hard to tell which are new and which are old.

Why don't you suggest that to the Royal Thai Government.
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redtailsforever
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:17 pm

Oh that TV series brought me back. I remember watching that on PBS in the early nineties. They followed a crew from lhr to syd on BA. They also had an episode about the 777 development.
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:44 pm

Once I was on UA going somewhere and we taxiied all the way to the runway and the captain comes on and says that we have to return to the gate, we left with the keys to the jetway. We taxi back and some ramp agent walks up to the front of the a/c and catches something. He walks away and we resume our trip. This happened at IAH.
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N766UA
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:45 pm

Quoting sierra3tango (Thread starter):
What (within / without the aircraft) does such a key actually lock / unlock?

Nothing whatsoever. "Turning over the keys" is a purely symbolic gesture.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 5):
Where do they keep the hide a key? Inside the front luggage door?

Post 9/11 you'd better not be hiding keys. If a cockpit door gets locked with nobody inside, you have to call mx to come open it, and it's usually a hassle. Nobody has keys just laying around.
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N766UA
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:49 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 9):

When I was a new hire, someone tried that stunt on me (keys to the runway)....didn't work.

Ah, but how long were you off looking for the bucket of propwash?
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bohica
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:25 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 24):
Ah, but how long were you off looking for the bucket of propwash?

Or 100 yards of flight line?  
Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 1):
I remember once a new hire flight attendant was in the First Class galley and I told her we would be delayed because the captain forgot the keys to the ignition, and I asked her to go to ops and ask for the spare keys.

God only knows how many times I would receive a call on the radio from a pilot saying a new F/A was on her way to Ops to get the airplane keys. Once she arrived at Ops I would send her to the maintenance department next door. They were in on the joke as well.  
 
sierra3tango
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:42 pm

Driving home this evening I remembered something I had read on another forum which was along the lines of
an impounded 707 at BRS (todays runway length 6600ft) - shorter then, was 'stolen' sometime in the 70s

Apparently it went out with a PPL in the right hand seat and took out some of the perimeter fence and approach lighting

Can't find a link though

Maybe aircraft should have keys that work!
 
N766UA
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:50 pm

Quoting bohica (Reply 25):
Once she arrived at Ops I would send her to the maintenance department next door.

Sorry, we're fresh out, try Northwest….. oh man we did but we don't anymore, you might try United? Oh sorry not at the moment, Continental is usually pretty helpful though…

Probably not as fun now that there's only 3 airlines left.

[Edited 2013-06-09 11:51:20]
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PA110
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:50 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 1):
I remember once a new hire flight attendant was in the First Class galley and I told her we would be delayed because the captain forgot the keys to the ignition, and I asked her to go to ops and ask for the spare keys.

Yep. That happened to a dear friend of mine as a new F/A for Swissair, many years ago. She was sent back to ops for "the keys" to the aircraft, who then sent her to catering, who sent her to maintenance. When she got back to the gate, the aircraft was gone. Apparently a light load, and they didn't need the max number of F/A's. Everyone was in on it, including crew scheduling. Very mean. She sat down and cried. On another flight, fellow crew members replaced her demo vest with a live one and put smelling salts in the demo mask. I never knew how much hazing went on with newbie F/As.
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Maverick623
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:00 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 24):
Ah, but how long were you off looking for the bucket of propwash?
Quoting bohica (Reply 25):
Or 100 yards of flight line?

The best one happened at America West years ago, when Pres. Clinton came to PHX. It involved a new hire ramper, a push tug, and a story about AF1 needing a tow to the hangar for "maintenance".

Several people supposedly lost their jobs that day.
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flyingturtle
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:35 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 29):

Wow!   

Is that true?


David
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rwy04lga
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:45 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 24):
Ah, but how long were you off looking for the bucket of propwash?
Quoting bohica (Reply 25):
Or 100 yards of flight line?

Good ones! Any others?
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7BOEING7
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:03 am

Quoting sierra3tango (Thread starter):
Towards the end there is a scene of Lord King (BA Chairman at the time) signing a delivery acceptance doc and then being given keys to the aircraft.

What (within / without the aircraft) does such a key actually lock / unlock?

Does the key isolate systems? and how secure are such keys?

These were given to every customer that bought a Boeing airplane just like the keys you get when you buy a car. In Lord King's case it was for ceremonial purposes for BAB's first 744 but all the airplanes they took had a set of keys with them.

The keys unlocked the cockpit door and they were all exactly the same -- security wasn't an issue back then.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 4):
All pilots and flight attendants had cockpit keys prior to 9/11.

  

Since 9/11 the cockpit doors have become more secure both in structure and locking mechanism. Boeing airplanes all have an electronic lock controlled by a keypad.
 
silentbob
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:57 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 23):
Post 9/11 you'd better not be hiding keys

we still have a key on board, though it does nothing to the secondary lock
 
AF1624
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:04 pm

I seem to remember having seen some pictures of a 757-767 type cockpit overhead panel with a lock mechanism on it (the kind that you rotate clock wise, then counter clock wise, etc. to open). Can anyone tell me what that is for?
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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:40 pm

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 34):
I seem to remember having seen some pictures of a 757-767 type cockpit overhead panel with a lock mechanism on it (the kind that you rotate clock wise, then counter clock wise, etc. to open). Can anyone tell me what that is for?

Many aircraft have a circuit breaker panel located in the ceiling right outside the cockpit--they may keep them locked for security purposes.
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AF1624
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:56 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 35):
Many aircraft have a circuit breaker panel located in the ceiling right outside the cockpit--they may keep them locked for security purposes.

Oh okay. Thanks  
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:05 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 29):
Pres. Clinton came to PHX. It involved a new hire ramper, a push tug, and a story about AF1 needing a tow to the hangar for "maintenance"

Oh my goodness, that's brilliant! Thanks for sharing
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copter808
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:13 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 24):
Ah, but how long were you off looking for the bucket of propwash?

I don't recall anyone ever asking ME to do that, although I wouldn't have considered it to be much of a problem. Only person who would ever know whether the bucket contained "propwash" or ambient air would be ME!!

Same applies to "rotorwash",
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:05 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 5):
Where do they keep the hide a key? Inside the front luggage door?

Inside the glove box, which of course is situated on the right side of the dashboard.
 
MountainFlyer
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:33 pm

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 7):
Airliners typically do not have ignition keys, however many other aircraft do.
Quoting sturmovik (Reply 11):
We do have ignition keys for our C172s at the flight school..

I haven't flown a huge plethora of aircraft, but of the ones I've flown, the only aircraft I've seen that actually have ignition keys are the small, single engine planes. Even the smallest twins I've flown don't have ignition keys. The doors have key locks, but that's it.
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:40 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 31):
Quoting N766UA (Reply 24):Ah, but how long were you off looking for the bucket of propwash?Quoting bohica (Reply 25):Or 100 yards of flight line?
Good ones! Any others?

I've heard of new rampers being sent to other carriers to get a "bin stretcher" to help accommodate extra bags, and then the newhire flight attendants being sent back in the cabin by the flight deck crew to get "air samples" using a cup.
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garudaa
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RE: Aircraft 'keys'

Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:10 pm

There was a magnified version of a cardboard ( My Guess) key handed over to the Indian AirForce chief during the handing over of the 1st C-17 to IAF at Longbeach facility today. So I guess that is the key they use to "kickstart" the C-17 and carry them in their cargo hold during flight         

[Edited 2013-06-12 08:12:52]

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