Thrust
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AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:30 pm

Approximately when will AA paint the MD-80 and 757 in their new scheme. Also, is the 762 going to receive it?
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mah584jr
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:38 pm

When you consider that AA may be replacing many of these aircraft in the near future, it probably isn't worth the cost.
 
AA737-823
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:33 pm

The 762 will be replaced by the Airbus narrowbodies (yikes!) in the coming months and years, so no need to paint those.
Good riddance; it would be a shame to discredit the proud history of the AA 762 by putting that coloring-book tail scheme on one of them!
 
JoePatroni707
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:51 pm

I have heard (but nothing official) that some of the 757's will get the new paint, and a hand full of the 80s. But nothing official.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:03 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 3):

I have heard (but nothing official) that some of the 757's will get the new paint, and a hand full of the 80s. But nothing official.

IIRC, only the international 757s (Europe, Latin America, and Caribbean) that won't be replaced by A321s will get the new livery, as domestic routes will see 757s rapidly replaced by A321s. The last of the MD-80s are leaving between 2018 and 2019, so it may make sense to paint the MD-80s that will leave the fleet last as the first of the 230 combined NEOs and MAXs arrive at AA.

It makes no sense for AA to repaint any of the MD-80s and domestic 757s that will leave the fleet between now and 2016, especially when hundreds of far newer US planes will promptly need to be repainted in AA livery (not to mention hundreds more US Airways Express planes that need to be repainted in Eagle livery) in the course of 2 1/2 or so years after the merger.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):

The 762 will be replaced by the Airbus narrowbodies (yikes!) in the coming months and years, so no need to paint those.

Aren't the 762s all supposed to be gone and replaced by the transcon-configuration A321s by mid-2014? If so, there is absolutely zero reason to paint the 762 in the new livery.

[Edited 2013-06-08 14:05:26]
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Quoting mah584jr (Reply 1):
it probably isn't worth the cost.

It is if the aircraft is due soon for a D check. I am sure that at least one MD-80, out of 180, and at least one 757, out of 100, will see the new livery. The last 757 won't leave the fleet before 2020.

Now as for the 767-200s, true they are leaving the fleet soon and will be retired but it is not impossible that one out of 15 of them sees the new livery even if it stays in the fleet only one more year before retirement. Not very likely, but not impossible.

Look at TWA, they painted one L-1011 in their then new corporate livery back in 1996 and the last one left the fleet in 1997. A few of the 727s, definitely at least one, got repainted and the last one left in 2000. Do you think TWA was in good shape financially at that time?

Look at Lufthansa, they repainted one 727 back in the early 90s as those were leaving the fleet at that time. Only one 727 at Lufthansa saw the all white top fuselage livery without the dark blue cheat line. Same with the DC-10, I know at least one at Lufthansa got repainted.

Look at United, they painted one 747SP back in 1993/1994 when the then new battle ship gray livery was introduced, the SPs (all ex-Pan Am) were to leave the fleet at that time. United repainted some of the 727s, DC-10s and Classic 747s in the battle ship gray livery because they knew they would keep those types for a few more years, until the early 2000s.

Look at Air France, they painted some of their 707s in the then new bar code livery introduced in the late 70s, at that time Air France was phasing out the 707s. The last 707 left in the early 80s. It is true, however, that none of the Caravelles ever saw the bar code scheme as those were being phased out at the same time.

Look at South African Airways. I remember when they introduced their then new livery back in 1997, one of their SPs was repainted and they knew they wouldn't keep those in the fleet much longer.

Ben Soriano

[Edited 2013-06-08 14:17:33]
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ckfred
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:20 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 4):
The last of the MD-80s are leaving between 2018 and 2019, so it may make sense to paint the MD-80s that will leave the fleet last as the first of the 230 combined NEOs and MAXs arrive at AA.

If an AA aircraft is polished every 1 to 2 years, then it's an issue of how much it costs to paint an MD-80 once versus the cost of polishing it several times before retirement. Obviously, the more time until retirement, the more likely it is to be repainted.


Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 4):
IIRC, only the international 757s (Europe, Latin America, and Caribbean) that won't be replaced by A321s will get the new livery, as domestic routes will see 757s rapidly replaced by A321s.

Are the international 757s the newest planes in the fleet? I looked at the Boeing website. AA took delivery of 35 757s between 1998 and 2002. So, those planes are between 11 and 15 years old. They probably could fly another 5 to 8 years easily.
 
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:26 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 5):
I am sure that at least one MD-80, out of 180, and at least one 757, out of 100, will see the new livery. The last 757 won't leave the fleet before 2020.

  
Even after the last domestic 757 is retired, AA will still use it to the Caribbean, Latin America and Europe - the replacement in those cases probably will be the A321NEO, and I don't think AA will have all their NEOs delivered from their 130-frame order until 2022.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 5):
Look at TWA, they painted one L-1011 in their then new corporate livery back in 1996 and the last one left the fleet in 1997. A few of the 727s, definitely at least one, got repainted and the last one left in 2000. Do you think TWA was in good shape financially at that time?

  
One new-livery 727 even had a St. Louis Rams helmet on it, as the Rams played in the Trans World Dome and TW was the official airline of the Rams as well.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 5):
Look at United, they painted one 747SP back in 1993/1994 when the then new battle ship gray livery was introduced, the SPs (all ex-Pan Am) were to leave the fleet at that time.

  
IIRC, two of the ten United 747SPs were painted in battleship gray, and one of those is now with NASA.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 5):
Now as for the 767-200s, true they are leaving the fleet soon and will be retired but it is not impossible that one out of 15 of them sees the new livery even if it stays in the fleet only one more year before retirement. Not very likely, but not impossible.

True, but keep in mind that as AA retires the 762s, they will need to repaint the entire US fleet, including US Airways Express planes, in the new AA/Eagle livery (I'll leave it up to the rest of you whether it will stay as-is or be modified). AA is painting their existing planes fast (especially the widebodies, which take the longest to paint) because US planes will probably get top priority for the paint lines once the merger closes.

[Edited 2013-06-08 14:34:27]
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brilondon
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:33 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):

The 762 will be replaced by the Airbus narrowbodies (yikes!) in the coming months and years, so no need to paint those.
Good riddance; it would be a shame to discredit the proud history of the AA 762 by putting that coloring-book tail scheme on one of them!
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 7):
True, but keep in mind that as AA retires the 762s, they will need to repaint the entire US fleet, including US Airways Express planes, in the new AA/Eagle livery (I'll leave it up to the rest of you whether it will stay as-is or be modified). AA is painting their existing planes fast (especially the widebodies, which take the longest to paint) because US planes will probably get top priority for the paint lines once the merger closes

The 762s will not be repainted but be replaced by the new Airbuses. The US planes will probably receive the AA paint when they are scheduled for maintenance and repainting. That would be the most cost effective way towards the repainting the US fleet.
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:39 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 8):
The US planes will probably receive the AA paint when they are scheduled for maintenance and repainting. That would be the most cost effective way towards the repainting the US fleet.

DL and UA didn't do it that way when they merged with NW and CO, respectively. All the mainline NW planes were repainted in DL livery about 18 months from the merger close, with the NW Airlink planes behind by a few months. Much like AA and the 762, DL saw no need to repaint the NW DC-9-30s and -40s that were going to leave the fleet shortly after the merger.

And almost all UA mainline planes are now in the modified CO livery, with the rest to follow shortly, and most of the United Express planes have also been repainted.
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:43 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 5):
Now as for the 767-200s, true they are leaving the fleet soon and will be retired but it is not impossible that one out of 15 of them sees the new livery even if it stays in the fleet only one more year before retirement. Not very likely, but not impossible.

I just cant see them doing a 767. Those gas guzzlers need to be replaced ASAP. It would be too much money wasted for too short a time period. The 321s cannot come fast enough. The maddogs i could see maybe a few just because the fleet is so large.
 
mah584jr
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:18 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 5):
It is if the aircraft is due soon for a D check. I am sure that at least one MD-80, out of 180, and at least one 757, out of 100, will see the new livery. The last 757 won't leave the fleet before 2020.

You may be right; however, I've yet to see any documentation supporting or refuting this claim. My opinion is that far fewer will be repainted than not. We'll see how it all plays out.
 
Piedmont727
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:51 am

Honestlly id love to see a MD80 in the new livery in idea on when we might see one roll out?
 
AA77W
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:25 am

I don't know the answer to the reprinting question, but I'll speculate that once the merger with US closes and AA is out of bankruptcy, there will be pressure to paint all remaining aircraft at a faster rate. Yes, cost is an important factor, but so is branding and consistancy. AA has spent a small fortune on rebranding in its attempt to be more modern, and frankly to distance itself from the negativity associated with its past. So my point (and this may be obvious and an over-simplification) is once things are more solidified they will weigh painting cost vs. branding value & number of aircraft type vs. retirement schedule.
 
hoons90
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:38 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 5):
Look at TWA, they painted one L-1011 in their then new corporate livery back in 1996 and the last one left the fleet in 1997. A few of the 727s, definitely at least one, got repainted and the last one left in 2000. Do you think TWA was in good shape financially at that time?

Same goes for JA8582, JAL's only MD-11 painted in the arc of the sun livery. Retired less than a year after it was repainted.


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TSS
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:12 am

Quoting piedmont727 (Reply 12):
Honestlly id love to see a MD80 in the new livery

As would I. I suspect the MD80 would (will?) look better in the new livery than any of AA's other aircraft.
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SXDFC
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:07 am

I find it amusing how a good majority of the folks here hate the new livery, but for some reason are keen to see it on the MD-80, 757 and 767-200. I posted this on another thread, but I will re-post it again, here are some computer generated pictures of what the MD-80 and 757 would look like in the new colors.

757-

http://qwsim.flight1.net/forums/uploads/4/QW757AANew2_copy.jpg

MD-80-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/volrider/TMd23.jpg

IF we want to get technical, there was a 757 in the new colors, they painted one in partial or full colors when they were doing the testing for this current one..

As someone else mentioned airlines re-painting a plane that's on its way out of the fleet is no surprise, WN painted a 732 in the new colors, JAL painted an MD-90 that was less than a year away from going to DL, and DL themselves painted one MD-11 and a few 722's in the "Wavy Gravy" scheme.
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N243NW
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:18 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 5):
It is if the aircraft is due soon for a D check.

Not necessarily. Keep in mind that when all other airlines switched to a new livery, it was pretty much assumed that a D check meant that a plane would be repainted. However, AA has never had paint facilities at any of its maintenance bases, so it's not merely an issue of mixing different paint colors and using different stencils.

Plus, if any of the 762s are due for a D check (or Heavy C check/Maintenance Base Visit, as AA calls it), they will probably just be retired at this point instead of overhauled and painted.

Oh, and by the way:

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 16):
757-

 drool 

[Edited 2013-06-08 21:27:40]
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TrijetsRMissed
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:53 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
it would be a shame to discredit the proud history of the AA 762 by putting that coloring-book tail scheme on one of them!

How about the MD-80? The type that is most synonymous with AA and has displayed the eagle livery the longest. I think a small few will be repainted, but think it would be most appropriate that the final aircraft retired operate in the eagle livery for its LRF.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 5):
United repainted some of the 727s, DC-10s

You may good points in your post of one-off/short term repaints, and site several good examples, with this being the exception. UA had 727s and DC-10s that wore the battle ship gray for 7-8 years, before they were retired. In fact, by 1995, the majority of the 50+ DC-10 fleet were already repainted.
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Newark727
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:58 am

It seems like there are far too many 757s and MD-80s to escape the new colors even if those types are being retired. 100+ of each, that's not the kind of fleet you can draw down in a hurry.
 
BOACCunard
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:43 am

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 18):
The type that is most synonymous with AA and has displayed the eagle livery the longest.

The MD-80 hasn't displayed the 1968 livery the longest, at least not yet. Of the current fleet that would be the 767 since it is the type AA has operated the longest, by a few months. Overall I think it would probably be the 727, though I'm not sure just when AA painted its first 727 in that livery. The 767 or MD-80 might surpass the 727 depending on when the last one is repainted/retired. (The 767 has been in the fleet longer and will stay longer, but the last old-livery MD-80 could conceivably last longer than the last old-livery 767.)
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mrskyguy
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:02 am

Having been one of the early "don't likes" of the new livery, I have to say that it is rapidly growing on me. I fly the system rather frequently, though my loyalties are still rather split. Its true that AAL has a myriad of issues to work out, but I have experienced both the good and the bad, and still often give them a go.

Flying out of LAX last week, I got a good mental image of the AAL terminal on the bus-out to and from the EGF off-site terminal. Traveling past Terminal 4, 2 of the 10 or so AAL birds were wearing the new livery (a B738 and a B777). It helped forumlate a more modern mental picture of what American will look like when the fleet is consistent to the new branding. And I think I like it.

It looks much nicer in person and to true scale, much more so than I felt was represented on my computer screen. I'm sure she'll always have her share of detractors, but AAL is slowly winning me over with the new brand. What will REALLY matter is what they do on the inside of the cabin and at the gate in the years to come.
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columba
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:09 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 16):
MD-80-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/volrider/TMd23.jpg

Reminds me on the Pseudo MD 80 they used in the movie "Flight"
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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American 767
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:23 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 18):
UA had 727s and DC-10s that wore the battle ship gray for 7-8 years, before they were retired.

I know that. I mention that to back up the fact that we will likely see at least one 757 in the new livery. I said the last 757 would not leave before 2020, that's at least 7 years from now. The United example with the 727s and DC-10s painted in the battle ship gray livery in the 90s was my point of comparison.

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boeing767mech
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:40 pm

Quoting THrust (Thread starter):
Approximately when will AA paint the MD-80 and 757 in their new scheme. Also, is the 762 going to receive it?
Quoting Newark727 (Reply 19):
It seems like there are far too many 757s and MD-80s to escape the new colors even if those types are being retired. 100+ of each, that's not the kind of fleet you can draw down in a hurry.

NEVER. As of June 9th at 7:38AM there is no MD80's, 757 or 767-200 listed on the dock plan to be repainted.

David
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N243NW
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:09 pm

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 24):
NEVER.

Never say never. I keep an eye on the exact same dock plan, and although none of these planes are listed yet, the dock plan only looks a year or so into the future and isn't set in stone. Given the longevity of the 757 and MD-80, it's almost certain in my mind that Newark727's speculation will prove true.

[Edited 2013-06-09 09:09:38]
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United1689
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:35 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
The 762 will be replaced by the Airbus narrowbodies (yikes!) in the coming months and years, so no need to paint those.

Actually we may see a 762 in the new livery because IIRC US Airways still has 10 762s in their fleet. Does anyone know if they are being retired anytime soon? Because if there is no plan to retire those ones then they will simply join the AA with the new livery 

It's the same with the US Airways 757s. If they are not planning to be retired, then they will join the AA fleet in the new livery as well.
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KD5MDK
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:51 pm

I'm sure the US 762s will be replaced by their A330s on order and deferring the retirement of some AA 763s if necessary.
 
ckfred
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:33 pm

Quoting mrskyguy (Reply 21):
What will REALLY matter is what they do on the inside of the cabin and at the gate in the years to come.

Good point. AA hasn't done much with its interiors and gate designs, going back to 2001. I noticed at ORD that some of the jet bridges have been painted, finally doing away with the faded stripes that were probably last painted in the mid 1990s.

At BOS last October, I noticed that some of the jet bridge logos appeared to be metal plates painted white with the logo. They apeared to be freshly painted. Other jet bridge logos looked like they had seen plenty of New England winters and Nor'easters. I had a hunch that a new brand was being finalized, and that a lot of redecorating/renovation was going to start, as AA came out of Chapter 11.
 
oc2dc
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:28 pm

Quoting United1689 (Reply 26):
Actually we may see a 762 in the new livery because IIRC US Airways still has 10 762s in their fleet. Does anyone know if they are being retired anytime soon? Because if there is no plan to retire those ones then they will simply join the AA with the new livery 

Supposedly all the A332s US ordered are to replace the 762s they currently have. I'm not sure what their delivery schedule is like, but I would assume half the fleet could be replaced in a matter of a year or two. I doubt we will see the US 767s in the AA scheme, but one can dream.
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KD5MDK
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:01 pm

According to Wikipedia, there are 10 US 762s and there will be 5 A332s delivered this year and 1 more on order. Given AA has a bunch of 773s on order as well, I expect the 77Es and 763s to trickle down and replace the other 5 if necessary. I'll bet all 762s are gone from both fleets by the end of 2015.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:09 pm

Quoting kd5mdk (Reply 30):
According to Wikipedia, there are 10 US 762s and there will be 5 A332s delivered this year and 1 more on order. Given AA has a bunch of 773s on order as well, I expect the 77Es and 763s to trickle down and replace the other 5 if necessary. I'll bet all 762s are gone from both fleets by the end of 2015.

Not to mention a bunch of 787-8s that AA will start taking delivery of in 2014, which would be a better replacement for the 762ER than the A332 when it comes to size.

That said, I think the initial AA 787 deliveries will replace the US 762ERs, then the next set of -8s will be used for growth, then the -9s (and the A350s should AA decide to keep that US order and not swap it for A32XNEOs) would replace the oldest of the 763ERs.
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deltal1011man
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:25 pm

Quoting mah584jr (Reply 11):
You may be right; however, I've yet to see any documentation supporting or refuting this claim
Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 24):

unless AA is going to repaint these aircraft in current paint (which, IMHO would be cheaper, quicker, than the new c/s) some of them will have to be painted.

IIRC our airplanes go about 5 years in-between paint. I would assume its about the same for AA. No way they get half of the airlines fleet parked without it needing paint and an overhaul.

Having said that, its not like it should be that many....but doesn't AA normally paint during an overhaul? If so, I am betting that at least one 757 and one S80 is getting an overhaul this year.
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TVNWZ
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:39 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 5):
Look at TWA, they painted one L-1011 in their then new corporate livery back in 1996 and the last one left the fleet in 1997.

Flew PHX-STL on that baby when it was barely out of the paint shop. The new livery looked great. Thanks for the memory jolt!
 
milesrich
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:59 pm

What you must remember is that there will be more priority in repainting the US Airways aircraft into American colors that repainting existing AA aircraft. But to say those airplanes won't be repainted, if they have to be polished every two years, I think presumes a lot no one here really knows about.
 
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:59 am

Quoting kd5mdk (Reply 30):
I'll bet all 762s are gone from both fleets by the end of 2015.

December 2016 at the latest the last one will leave the fleet. They'll definitely all be gone in 2017, even if the price of jet fuel goes down.
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N243NW
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RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:23 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 32):
but doesn't AA normally paint during an overhaul?

Technically yes, although it isn't a whole lot of paint that's applied (stripes, tail graphics, and sometimes more). The rest is buffed and polished. AA's internal overhaul locations like TUL, DFW/DWH, and (formerly) AFW haven't used spray-based painting methods in years...everything is currently applied using rollers and brushes for various reasons.

Painting the silver fuselage of the new livery is going to require spray guns, something that these bases aren't currently equipped for. Of course, a good deal of heavy checks (especially widebodies) are being shipped to MROs, which may or may not have paint facilities in easier supply. Also, the new AA fuselage color isn't simply a couple coats of generic silver; it's a unique mica finish that requires a lot of attention to detail and isn't that forgiving to repaint if damaged, from what I hear.

Quoting milesrich (Reply 34):
there will be more priority in repainting the US Airways aircraft into American colors that repainting existing AA aircraft.

   I'd bet that once the merger closes the paint shops will be chock full of PMUS planes with almost no PMAA aircraft being repainted unless absolutely necessary (such as the aforementioned heavy checks).
B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:19 am

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 20):
The MD-80 hasn't displayed the 1968 livery the longest, at least not yet. Of the current fleet that would be the 767 since it is the type AA has operated the longest, by a few months.

True, not yet. The first 762 entered service a few months before the first MD-82. But the remaining ERs will be retired next year. By the time the last MD-80 is retired (4-5 yrs), it will have held the livery the longest - of the current fleet and potentially longer than the 722. I don't equate the 762 and 763ER as part of the same fleet type.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
rampart
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: AA New Scheme: MD-80/757

Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:31 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 16):
757-

http://qwsim.flight1.net/forums/uplo...y.jpg

I have to say, the 757 is best suited to the new livery of any aircraft type I've seen. Looks great! I assume it will look as good in real life outside of a sim image.

-Rampart