wnflyguy
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WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:43 am

Looks like from Southwest.com and Airtran.com DCA-HOU is getting another flight!
FL DCA-MCO flight got the AX.
But WN got the O K to switch the slot to add another DCA-HOU flight in August.
That now gives DCA it's first WN metal to RON.
DCA-HOU service
flt 4567 06:55-09:15 (new)
flt 3123 16:00-18:20

HOU-DCA service
flt 987 11:00-15:00
flt 4568 18:55-22:55 (new)

great news

Wnfg  
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
dbo861
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:35 am

What's taking them so long to shift slots to MDW?
 
B757capt
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:29 pm

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 1):

I doubt they will. They don't have the slots to fly a schedule like AA, UA, or DL has.
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jetmatt777
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:30 pm

So I guess crying to daddy for slots at DCA because they didn't have enough to start DCA-HOU worked and now they can start twice daily service.


Good for them. The crybabys at WN get what they want again. Meanwhile cities with no service to DCA continue to get screwed. (Ahem OKC)
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
sdoyon
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:38 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 3):
The crybabys at WN get what they want again.

I think you're forgetting about the time they lost out on the LGA and DCA bidding...

Seriously though, how does applying for and receiving slots = crying to daddy? They're using their small position in DCA to their advantage--limited incumbents get preferential treatment because it creates competition. They applied just like everyone else, and the DOT found their application to have met the most criteria--sorry if you don't agree with them. Would you have the same opinion of B6 had won and started service to JAX?
 
Flytravel
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:05 pm

Quoting b757capt (Reply 2):
I doubt they will. They don't have the slots to fly a schedule like AA, UA, or DL has.
DL doesn't service WAS-CHI nonstop. But, WN probably still wants more slots. I think it will be 3x daily, with 2x loss to ATL and 1x loss to MKE.

If AA/US divest slots and WN acquires some of those, I suppose we will see MDW service enhanced more after that, and service to DAL, BNA and maybe MCO restored. DCA-MCO is covered by another LCC that is B6.

[Edited 2013-06-09 07:48:12]
 
jetmatt777
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:31 pm

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 4):

I wouldn't be upset if they kept the MCO service. They made it clear in their application that they are unable to find any slots to serve HOU. They are the underdog, they need this service, etc.. once they win the slot, they draw down service from a much smaller city (MCO) to serve another daily flight. It's a game WN plays. They cry about being the underdog to get what they want.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:47 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 3):
Good for them. The crybabys at WN get what they want again. Meanwhile cities with no service to DCA continue to get screwed. (Ahem OKC)

I'd much rather see WN, F9, or another LCC get service, then the legacy's who like to merge and let them jack up fees like a $200 change fee easier. Oh world airport has plenty of service, just because you can't get a nonstop to the destination that you want doesn't mean its getting screwed
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jetmatt777
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:55 pm

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 7):

So how many nonstops does the Houston to DC market need?

Didn't WN also apply for DCA-OKC? I guess they no longer have a hard on for that service?
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
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Polot
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:11 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 6):
once they win the slot, they draw down service from a much smaller city (MCO) to serve another daily flight. It's a game WN plays. They cry about being the underdog to get what they want.
Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 8):
So how many nonstops does the Houston to DC market need?

  
You realize US alone has 7 daily flights between DCA-MCO? That is not including B6's 3 daily flights plus how many Southwest/AirTran have. DCA-Houston currently has 8 nonstops on UA, plus now these 2 WN flights...still less than DCA-MCO. So you should be happy. WN is removing service from a well served route with multiple competitors to add flights to route with less flights and right now only one airline  .

You are barking up the wrong tree. Want OKC and other small cities to have DCA service? Complain to US...they are the ones sitting on a huge number of slots flying 7x daily to "smaller cities" like MCO. You must love their 9x daily DCA-PHL service.

[Edited 2013-06-09 08:16:55]

[Edited 2013-06-09 08:19:18]
 
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drerx7
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:21 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 6):

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 4):

I wouldn't be upset if they kept the MCO service. They made it clear in their application that they are unable to find any slots to serve HOU. They are the underdog, they need this service, etc.. once they win the slot, they draw down service from a much smaller city (MCO) to serve another daily flight. It's a game WN plays. They cry about being the underdog to get what they want.

Waving the BS flag on this one

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 8):
So how many nonstops does the Houston to DC market need?

SMH

Quoting Polot (Reply 9):
You realize US alone has 7 daily flights between DCA-MCO? That is not including B6's 3 daily flights plus how many Southwest/AirTran have. DCA-Houston currently has 8 nonstops on UA, plus now these 2 WN flights...still less than DCA-MCO.

You are barking up the wrong tree. Want OKC and other small cities to have DCA service? Complain to US...they are the ones sitting on a huge number of slots flying 7x daily to "smaller cities" like MCO.

AMEN
Look man, We are held hostage down here to UA's price gouging...so with all due respect OKC and MCO can kiss my you know what - HOU-DCA is more needed than the 11,000th nonstop from DCA to MCO on one of the 3 carriers in the market. And like Polot said...look at how many RJs US is sitting on slots to DCA.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:28 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 8):

Okay, but even if Houston is a large city, the fares are sky-high because UA is the only carrier on the route. I think DCA-Houston getting a LCC competitor to drive prices down a little bit is more important than a very leisure-oriented route with very low fares keeping one of its ~10 flights a day.

I get it, you're upset that they are continuously overlooking OKC. You're aggravated with WN over it. I know how you feel, look at what WN has done to my home airport of ISP!   But just because they are trying to do what they feel is best for their business doesn't mean they are cry-babies.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:28 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Thread starter):

great news

Not at the expense of OKC! WN wanted to serve it sooooo bad...now they're not even giving us the time of day.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 10):
AMEN
Look man, We are held hostage down here to UA's price gouging...so with all due respect OKC and MCO can kiss my you know what - HOU-DCA is more needed than the 11,000th nonstop from DCA to MCO on one of the 3 carriers in the market. And like Polot said...look at how many RJs US is sitting on slots to DCA.

Thank you for your emotional sentiment...from our perspective, Houston can kiss our you know what.
 
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Polot
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:43 pm

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 12):
Not at the expense of OKC! WN wanted to serve it sooooo bad...now they're not even giving us the time of day.

US also wanted to serve it sooooo bad...now they're not even giving you the time of day. They could start OKC tomorrow if they wanted to.
 
usflyguy
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:15 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 3):
Good for them. The crybabys at WN get what they want again. Meanwhile cities with no service to DCA continue to get screwed. (Ahem OKC)

US has over 60% of the slots at DCA with some markets being served 10+ times a day. If OKC really warranted the service like they claimed, they could take a 16 seat airplane off of one of the routes they have those on, switch the slot to OKC and put an A321 on it... But they aren't because they honestly know it was only about getting one more slot and keeping B6 and WN from getting one.

WN has a limited number of slots and OKC doesn't make a very good business case for a slot that can be used anywhere.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
LambertMan
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:19 pm

Does anyone know how the STL service has done? I've flown it six times so far and to me the loads have looked pretty strong. Hopefully when DAL's restrictions are lifted we don't lose any frequencies...
 
usflyguy
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:21 pm

With one-way fares as low as $106....
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:40 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 14):

WN has a limited number of slots and OKC doesn't make a very good business case for a slot that can be used anywhere.

Really? So why have two different airlines vied for service from there? With TIK being the largest employer in the state...and the great amount of traffic generated between there and the Pentagon, OKC is a low hanging fruit. But politics being what it is, they have to sacrifice serving another, less deserving airport in order to utilize the slot...
 
usflyguy
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:05 pm

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 17):
Really? So why have two different airlines vied for service from there? With TIK being the largest employer in the state...and the great amount of traffic generated between there and the Pentagon, OKC is a low hanging fruit. But politics being what it is, they have to sacrifice serving another, less deserving airport in order to utilize the slot...

They were vying for specific types of slots that are restricted in their use. Like I said, if the service added that much value to the airline, US could start it tomorrow with their large portfolio of slots that they have. They were using OKC to keep WN and B6 from gaining additional access to DCA.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:17 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 14):
WN has a limited number of slots and OKC doesn't make a very good business case for a slot that can be used anywhere.

Okay, here's the thing about UA service to IAH. I usually pass through IAH on the way to ELP. But my DCA-IAH-ELP fares are usually less than advertised DCA-IAH fares for the same date (a supply and demand thing I guess). DCA-HOU service ought to help rationalize that.

OTOH, Oklahoma City is a state capital and Houston isn't. It does deserve respect.
 
Flytravel
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:26 pm

When AA and US merge, it could result in OKC-DCA as well as GRR-DCA being actually added by AA. Right now US would have to open up a station in OKC, but with AA already present in OKC, it would mean just adding flights under AA. Which slots would be pulled: atleast one and my guess is AA would cease flying ISP-DCA w/ ISP's proximity to the JFK station.
 
KD5MDK
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:58 pm

DCA-IAH-ELP is competing with DCA-DFW-ELP. That's what lowers the price.
 
jetmatt777
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:31 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 14):
US has over 60% of the slots at DCA with some markets being served 10+ times a day. If OKC really warranted the service like they claimed, they could take a 16 seat airplane off of one of the routes they have those on, switch the slot to OKC and put an A321 on it... But they aren't because they honestly know it was only about getting one more slot and keeping B6 and WN from getting one.

WN has a limited number of slots and OKC doesn't make a very good business case for a slot that can be used anywhere.

Don't think I'm not frustrated at US....

My frustration is with WN applying for OKC and doing zero local promotion of it. Not hardly a peep from WN. Very silent and sloppy submission. They do not win.

WN applies for HOU the next time a slot is available. They do massive PR, they promote the heck out of the proposal and do a massive campaign for write in letters. They win the award. They then almost immediately pull a slot away from a smaller city (MCO) than HOU and add another frequency. That is my frustration.

I'm not mad about OKC not getting it, moreso with WN pulling a slot to add duplicate service in the market immediately after crying for a slot for this service. HOU now has 2 daily flights. MCO and OKC lose out.

OKC is the largest in-perimeter market without any DCA service. It is a state capital. It has tens of thousands of federal government jobs (office jobs, not just military jobs). Also the energy industry and Native American tribal headquarters (which do a ton of government relation traffic) are large in Central Oklahoma and travel to DC for business.

So dismissing OKC as a wide spot in the road as some would make it seem is innacurate.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
seven3seven
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:40 pm

HOU flights will make more money consistently than OKC flights. End of story.
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barney captain
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:51 pm

Quoting seven3seven (Reply 23):
HOU flights will make more money consistently than OKC flights. End of story.

Exactly.

Jetmatt seems to think this this was some kind of snub at OKC. If OKC was a better BUSINESS decision, they would have gotten service.

How many more connection opportunities await in HOU over OKC? - no comparison.
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jetmatt777
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:53 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 24):
Jetmatt seems to think this this was some kind of snub at OKC. If OKC was a better BUSINESS decision, they would have gotten service.
Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 22):
I'm not mad about OKC not getting it, moreso with WN pulling a slot to add duplicate service in the market immediately after crying for a slot for this service. HOU now has 2 daily flights. MCO and OKC lose out.

I will say it again. WN did not have the slot 6 months ago to start service, but now they have the slot, they suddenly have the resources to add a second flight a month after winning the slot?
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:56 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 22):
OKC is the largest in-perimeter market without any DCA service. It is a state capital. It has tens of thousands of federal government jobs (office jobs, not just military jobs). Also the energy industry and Native American tribal headquarters (which do a ton of government relation traffic) are large in Central Oklahoma and travel to DC for business.

But if OKC is so strong a market, why hasn't US already launched it? US has recently canned their YOW-DCA flights and trimmed down VPS/PNS-DCA, so they've had slots available. Yet still they don't launch OKC.

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 22):
MCO and OKC lose out.

MCO has plenty of service, so I wouldn't cry too much for them. And while you characterize MCO as a smaller market than HOU, MCO is one of the top 5 busiest O&D airports in the country, so I doubt they'll even notice.

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 22):
My frustration is with WN applying for OKC and doing zero local promotion of it. Not hardly a peep from WN. Very silent and sloppy submission. They do not win.

Because they knew they had little chance to win during that application. Even though OKC was more deserving, the DOT was unlikely to pull a slot from an existing small market to give to another small market.
 
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drerx7
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:15 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 24):
Exactly.

Jetmatt seems to think this this was some kind of snub at OKC. If OKC was a better BUSINESS decision, they would have gotten service.

How many more connection opportunities await in HOU over OKC? - no comparison.

Again, I can't understand why this is such a hard fact to swallow.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
jetmatt777
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:20 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 24):
How many more connection opportunities await in HOU over OKC? - no comparison.

I thought this was about the beloved local market at HOU having high airfares? Do HOU fliers really want connecting traffic taking away their seats and diluting their only nonstop flight to DCA? (now two)
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:24 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 8):
So how many nonstops does the Houston to DC market need?

As many as airlines want to put on the route.
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HPRamper
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:02 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 26):
But if OKC is so strong a market, why hasn't US already launched it? US has recently canned their YOW-DCA flights and trimmed down VPS/PNS-DCA, so they've had slots available. Yet still they don't launch OKC.

As has already been mentioned, US does not serve OKC at this point. When OKC gains service on US, even if it's AA post-merger, the first link will likely be CLT. After that, DCA may be in the cards.

With no US station, the costs of starting a station for one flight to a quasi-hub with limited connection opportunities probably preclude the idea getting much of a start.

That said, US/AA would be smart to start DCA service before WN jumps in on the market.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:09 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 9):
You must love their 9x daily DCA-PHL service.

Bad example.

DCA-PHL (a hub) and DCA-EWR (another hub) are frequently 100% full with standbys at the gate.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:12 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 30):
With no US station, the costs of starting a station for one flight to a quasi-hub with limited connection opportunities probably preclude the idea getting much of a start.

They could easily start OKC-CLT (as they proposed in their application) or OKC-PHX, both of which should be viable routes.
 
HPRamper
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:16 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 32):
They could easily start OKC-CLT (as they proposed in their application) or OKC-PHX, both of which should be viable routes.

They should absolutely start with CLT service first. I think DCA should come before PHL. PHX I doubt US is working on considering if PHX is pulled down...
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:16 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 31):
DCA-PHL (a hub) and DCA-EWR (another hub) are frequently 100% full with standbys at the gate.

Yet US uses extremely small equipment to fly these routes. Depending on how US chooses, they can make almost any route fill to 100% with junk connecting traffic.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:43 pm

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 20):

I know I'm gonna sound like I'm just taking this personally, which I'm not, but I doubt ISP-DCA would end due to the fact that they get certain incentives from the airport for starting new service, and two, the flights are ALWAYS full. Now I know that full planes equal high yields, but I don't think it does that bad.
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midex461
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:50 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 32):
or OKC-PHX, both of which should be viable routes.

US tried flying OKC-PHX before using YV CRJs (not sure if it was the -200 or the -900), and pulled out after getting spanked by WN.
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AWACSooner
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:59 pm

they flew 900s from both LAS and PHX to OKC...then downgraded them to 200's...then pulled them all together
 
ouboy79
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:00 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 32):
They could easily start OKC-CLT (as they proposed in their application) or OKC-PHX, both of which should be viable routes.

WN already ran US off OKC-PHX once. There is no point when AA already operated OKC-LAX 3x a day. CLT is probably a likely bet after the merger closes.

I understand Matt's frustration and was torn on the this latest DCA slot bid. It is what it is though. WN is will probably keep moving DCA slots a around into the mega stations. It does suck to be the largest city (metro area of 1.3 mil) without nonstop service to DCA when much smaller markets have it. It'll eventually happen though.

Not much can be done though on slot squatting. To do anything more you are getting into the realm of stipulating minimum aircraft size or frequencies per market. I'm not sure that is a good road to go down.
 
strandedinbgm
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:45 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 19):
OTOH, Oklahoma City is a state capital and Houston isn't. It does deserve respect.

So is Montpelier. Where's their non-stop service?
It's 737s, 747s and 380s. Not 737's, 747's and 380's. Learn to use the apostrophe for crying out loud.
 
ouboy79
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:04 am

Quoting strandedinbgm (Reply 39):
So is Montpelier. Where's their non-stop service?

35 miles up to the road in BTV, which has a population of a whole 200k people in their metro area. I personally consider Montpelier to be served by the airport in BTV. Heck, they are closer to the airport there than a lot of areas of the OKC metro area are to WRWA. They are closer than actual suburbs of OKC...of course OKC is massive in land area - 2nd largest behind JAX (or 8th when including a few cities in Alaska and a couple in Montana).

Regardless, OKC has a very large government presence with respect to employees with military, FAA, FDA, SSA, Ag Dept, VA, GSA, etc.
 
Flytravel
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:18 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 38):
WN is will probably keep moving DCA slots a around into the mega stations

I wonder if AA will do some mega station approach to DCA over the small airports, as well. AA could also start service to Houston via IAH as well, and maybe some token frequencies to ATL and MKE as well. US already flies to DL's hubs DTW and MSP.

AA will bring a strong brand to DC and have the most departures out of the preferred airport for domestic travel, and could easily position itself as a viable choice for DC based FF.

Of the top 50 US metros, AA would essentially have nonstop service for DC pax to every major market inside the perimeter, and have LAX and PHX from IAD. There would be no nonstop to SF, Seattle, San Diego, Denver, Portland, San Antonio, Las Vegas, Austin and Salt Lake City but the list of cities from large, mid-size to small, in the east and mid-west would be impressive. I think AA could add GRR-DCA and OKC-DCA as far as mid-size markets.

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 22):
They then almost immediately pull a slot away from a smaller city (MCO)

B6 as a low cost carrier still services DCA-MCO. There is still LCC competition on the route. Possibly WN or another carrier could fly IAD-MCO as well. There is lower cost parking at IAD, which would make it easier for the family of four going to Disney to save some money anyways.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:18 am

Quoting strandedinbgm (Reply 39):
So is Montpelier. Where's their non-stop service?

You obviously haven't done your research -- Montpelier doesn't even have an airport -- unless you've heard of Knapp State Airport in Berlin, Vermont. So without an airport, commercial airlines can't serve the community. And so the 7855 citizens of Montpelier will have to continue to drive 35 miles northwest to Burlington for air service.

And the 1,296,565 folks in the Oklahoma City metro will continue not to have DCA service.
 
atrude777
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:57 am

While this is great for WN to be able to do so...I think I see jetmatt's argument...

He is not complaining that HOU-DCA got the slot..nor is he really complaining that OKC-DCA did not get the route..(not the extent I am reading)

What the biggest question to me is, and I am a HUGE WN support and fan..WN slammed US the same argument we have on the boards. If DCA-OKC is so necessary by both airlines...why didn't US serve it with it's own slot? The same question can go to WN now...why couldn't they just transfer DCA-MCO to DCA-OKC like WN had originally tried to win the slot for...or...why couldn't they transfer DCA-MCO to DCA-HOU? What changed the circumstances that WN was just now allowed to change DCA-MCO?

In reality...both airlines had the slots to start DCA-OKC or DCA-HOU (WN).

Alex
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jetmatt777
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:12 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 43):
He is not complaining that HOU-DCA got the slot..nor is he really complaining that OKC-DCA did not get the route..(not the extent I am reading)

Thank you for taking the time to read what I have been saying...Reading comprehension is a lost skill these days:

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 22):
I'm not mad about OKC not getting it, moreso with WN pulling a slot to add duplicate service in the market immediately after crying for a slot for this service. HOU now has 2 daily flights. MCO and OKC lose out.

WN: We don't have enough slots to start this route. We need this route to open up a world of low fare service to HOU.
DOT: Here's the slots. Make it happen.
WN: Immediately pull a slot from another market and add a second daily service.

This is what I have been saying the whole time. They had the resources to make it happen the whole time, they cried to daddy to get an additional slot which they got, then they moved another flight over to add to their HOU hub.

WN is building a reputation of playing the underdog to the DOT. When they use the exact same tactics now as the majors. WN had 40 years to get into DCA, it's not US or anyone else's fault they did not pursue those slots until the last 5 years. They should be treated equally as other carriers, especially now that the Southwest is slowly morphing into a traditional legacy carrier.
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:41 am

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 44):

I see what you are saying, but perhaps they thought they need more than one daily frequency to hold a candle to UA's service. It's a valid argument to make that, on a business route like this one, they need more than one daily rotation to be truly competitive. If they didn't get the second slot, they may have thought they wouldn't be able to fly the route to their standards.
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Polot
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:54 am

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 44):
This is what I have been saying the whole time. They had the resources to make it happen the whole time, they cried to daddy to get an additional slot which they got, then they moved another flight over to add to their HOU hub.

So asking for an additional slot is crying to daddy? Every airline that applied for the slot already has slots in DCA. B6 has resources to start flights to JAX (their proposed destination with the slot)- they can just move one of their current flights. US has (many) resources available to operate OKC- they can just move one of their current flights.

WN asked for the additional slot because....drumroll... they wanted an additional slot. They want to operate 6 flights out of DCA instead of 5 (note I just made those numbers up- I do not know how slots WN exactly has). Just like how B6 asked for the additional slot because....drumroll... they wanted an additional slot (not because they deeply care about the people who live in Jacksonville). Just like how US asked for the additional slot because....drumroll... they wanted an additional slot (not because they deeply care about the people who live in Oklahoma City, they don't even fly to OKC) .

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 44):
They should be treated equally as other carriers, especially now that the Southwest is slowly morphing into a traditional legacy carrier.

How has WN gotten special treatment in this scenario? They asked for a slot so they can operate DCA-HOU and received it...and are starting DCA-HOU. Neither US or B6 are new carriers in DCA and neither are barred from flying to HOU, OKC, or JAX from DCA if they wanted to.

[Edited 2013-06-09 18:57:23]
 
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:04 am

Quoting Polot (Reply 46):
WN asked for the additional slot because....drumroll... they wanted an additional slot. They want to operate 6 flights out of DCA instead of 5 (note I just made those numbers up- I do not know how slots WN exactly has). Just like how B6 asked for the additional slot because....drumroll... they wanted an additional slot (not because they deeply care about the people who live in Jacksonville). Just like how US asked for the additional slot because....drumroll... they wanted an additional slot (not because they deeply care about the people who live in Oklahoma City, they don't even fly to OKC) .

WELL SAID! Seems pretty simple to me. I fail to understand why people take [Airplanes flying into a city] so personally, or even act as if it is. OKC isn't some secret metropolitan mecca... despite what one living there might feel like, if it was then I assume many other carriers would have much more service there. I lay over there and the airport isn't even that large.

It's a business, it's about money.... it's not about much else, nor should it be. As stated above, EVERYONE could provide service DCA-OKC if they wanted, but they WANTED another slot... all of the airlines... WN included.
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HPRamper
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:16 am

Quoting midex461 (Reply 36):
US tried flying OKC-PHX before using YV CRJs (not sure if it was the -200 or the -900), and pulled out after getting spanked by WN.
Quoting midex461 (Reply 36):
they flew 900s from both LAS and PHX to OKC...then downgraded them to 200's...then pulled them all together

And therein is the reason.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 41):
Of the top 50 US metros, AA would essentially have nonstop service for DC pax to every major market inside the perimeter, and have LAX and PHX from IAD. There would be no nonstop to SF, Seattle, San Diego, Denver, Portland, San Antonio, Las Vegas, Austin and Salt Lake City

I thought AA had service DCA-LAX. And after the merger, it will also have LAS, PHX and SAN.
 
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Polot
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RE: WN DCA Slot Shift!

Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:25 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 48):
I thought AA had service DCA-LAX. And after the merger, it will also have LAS, PHX and SAN.

It will be interesting to see if the they are forced to give up any of their beyond perimeter slots for a rebid (that they may be able to bid for again). TWA use to have slots for DCA-LAX but were unable to transfer them to AA (AS got the slots and started their SEA service). But since the TWA/AA merger was a little different than a traditional merger they might be fine, I don't know the law all that well.