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KarelXWB
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Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:31 am

Embraer will launch its second-generation E-Jet at the Paris Air Show today. The E-Jet E2 family, as the airframer is dubbing it, will include three variants:

> 80-seat E-175
> 97-seat E-190
> 118-seat E-195

The E-170, will be dropped. The E-190 E2 will be the first to enter service, in the first half of 2018. The E-195 E2 will follow in 2019 and the E-175 E2 in 2020, says Embraer.



Story here:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...y-with-launch-of-new-e-jet-387169/

[Edited 2013-06-17 02:33:55]
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:44 am

Finally - good to see this announced, although it was really the worst kept secret in aviation!


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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:47 am

Yes its great to see this. Hopefully it will attract alot of interest from both existing E Jet customers and new ones.
 
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:54 am

Are these aircraft, especially the 195-E2 longer then the earlier versions or will they just manage to squeeze in 3 more rows by slimmer seats, less pitch, removing the bulkhead aft, removing galleys?
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:56 am

It's interesting to see that the revised E95 now has 2 overwing exits! I hope the dispatch reliability will improve as the current Ejets have a habit of breaking down a lot.

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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:04 am

How do they plan to cram 144 seats into the E195 fuselage? Surely that must be typo? Even at 118 seats, it is a tight fit. Or will the E195 be stretched?
 
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:06 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 5):
Or will the E195 be stretched?

Yes, the airframe will be stretched.
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:13 am

So it will be a E190-300.... That makes sense.
 
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:14 am

I always thought a RE E175 would be favourite to replace KL's F70 fleet' but with EIS not earlier than 2020 this will probably be too late.
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:23 am

The E195 is already a headache for ground ops... The holds are a frustration for ground staff and it is a pain in the a$$ to balance... unlike other aircraft where an uneven distribution of pax onboard does not make a huge difference, the E195 simply makes loadplanners mad... I am one of them -.-"

I expect the stretch to be even more of a problem for ground ops....

[Edited 2013-06-17 03:24:29]
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:38 am

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 8):
I always thought a RE E175 would be favourite to replace KL's F70 fleet' but with EIS not earlier than 2020 this will probably be too late.

Well, KL and other operators do not have a choice - there is nothing else available if they do not want to buy turboprops. Makes perfect sense for Embraer to push those sub-types with which they compete with Bombardier.
 
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:46 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 10):
Well, KL and other operators do not have a choice - there is nothing else available if they do not want to buy turboprops

How about MRJ? KL said they were taking a close look at them as possible F70 replacement.

[Edited 2013-06-17 03:47:04]
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:42 am

The stretch of the E195 puts it right into CS100 territory, albeit with an EIS a few years later. This will get exciting...
P.S. I assume the E195E2 must be a small stretch, as even with slim seats, galley reconfiguration etc I don't see that 3 rows can be gained.
 
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:46 am

And they have a launch customer: SkyWest orders 100 E-175 E2 aircraft to launch 2nd generation E-Jet program.

http://twitter.com/ATWOnline/status/346594237078462464

Quoting r2rho (Reply 12):
The stretch of the E195 puts it right into CS100 territory

Correct!
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:02 pm

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 11):
How about MRJ? KL said they were taking a close look at them as possible F70 replacement.

Forgot about the MRJ - albeit for a reason: With all the delays of this programme, it remains to be seen how far away from the MRJ's EIS the E175E2's EIS will be in the end....
 
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:41 pm

Parabens! Great news! I am happy for the amazing people inside Embraer and to Brazil, one of the world's most fabulous places!

It is great that Embraer has upgraded it's already great product (from a passenger POV) - from an RJ standpoint in general, they are FAR more comfortable. In fact once I caught a United E170 from ORD to White Plains (I often fly NYC to LGA - which was always on an old 737, A320 and occasional 757) and I found the E170 to be equally wonderful if not more. I was in Explus, but it was the way the 170 felt in flight, it's newness etc was joyful.

How long before we see the last E145 and CRJ's go? United out of EWR has 41,000 E145's coming and going every day. "Dear God, please get the new United E175's to Newark ASAP."
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:50 pm

Embraer is going to need to keep the MTOW of the E2-175 under 86,000 pounds, and economics to be attractive at 76 seats, or leave DL/UA/AA to seek scope relief from mainline pilots - again.

http://airinsight.com/2013/05/03/sco...-new-regional-jets-a-coming-storm/
 
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:04 pm

So is there a range increase and fuel decrease? what is the difference? I need to see some numbers...
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:28 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 14):
Forgot about the MRJ

Today Mitsubishi said FAL start will begin within 2 months and it should fly at the end of the year.

http://twitter.com/tohmavis/status/346549031113203712

  
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:41 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 13):
And they have a launch customer: SkyWest orders 100 E-175 E2 aircraft to launch 2nd generation E-Jet program.

So Skywest is pretty much going to be getting rid of all CRJs in favor of the MRJ and the E2.....interesting to see the route pairings they end up with after this overhaul.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 18):
Today Mitsubishi said FAL start will begin within 2 months and it should fly at the end of the year.

This was pretty much the common buzz around here in Japanland for the last few months. Remember the thread I began about the MRJ a while ago? haha
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:16 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 18):

Today Mitsubishi said FAL start will begin within 2 months and it should fly at the end of the year.

Thanks for the update. The program has had its setbacks and I'm sure will face many more challenges, but they'll get there. I think lots of airlines are on the fence regarding both C-Series and MRJ, and even more about real performance data and reliability once the GTF is in service.

But Embraer already has 365 orders and options for their E2 series at launch, which is mighty impressive!    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ith-deals-for-365-aircraft-387226/
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:11 pm

Does anyone know any details of the 'new wing?' Is it an extension? CFRP (unlikely I know, but I thought I'd ask)? Just wing tip treatments? Did they stick with a common wing? (Images hint otherwise, but I'm not sure with the E-175-E2.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...or-re-engined-e-jet-family-372681/


Skywest and ILFC... Nice launch customer base for day #1.  http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...-show-embraer-idUSWEB006RY20130617

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 18):
Today Mitsubishi said FAL start will begin within 2 months and it should fly at the end of the year.

Good to hear. And the winner is Pratt!   

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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:18 pm

Interesting, the E-195 E2 will be entering service around the time HA will probably be looking for a 717 replacement.   
 
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:32 pm

I see the E195 E2 HD variant aimed very much at easyJet and to a lesser extent the hybrid European carriers like airBerlin, new germanWings, etc, I think it would be a massive boost for the programme to secure easyJet and really take the wind out of the C Series sails.
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:37 pm

Doesn't Boeing have a patent on raked wingtips? And I thought that they were intended for long-range flights, and did not offer much benefit over standard wingtip devices on shorter stages.

Either way, looks interesting, and I certainly hope these will be replacing CR2s/CR7s by the end of the decade...
 
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:43 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 12):
The stretch of the E195 puts it right into CS100 territory, albeit with an EIS a few years later. This will get exciting...

And it is also inching closer to the A319 and 737.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 13):
SkyWest orders 100 E-175 E2 aircraft to launch 2nd generation E-Jet program.

Congrats to SkyWest and Embraer! This is fantastic news! How will Embraer formally designate them? E2-195? E-195 2.0? E-195NG?
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:44 pm

I don't mean to disparage the E2 program or rain on the parade, but I have a genuine question. Why would an airline commit for 100 firm orders for types that are not going to enter service for the next 5 years and not look at the CSeries which is very close to EIS, would be very mature by 2018 and potentially have engine PIPs further boosting it's performance? A fleet of 100 should make fleet commonality and pilot re-training insignificant. So what gives?
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:50 pm

Quoting HNLPointShoot (Reply 22):
Interesting, the E-195 E2 will be entering service around the time HA will probably be looking for a 717 replacement.

I would say that HA might be better off with the 319NEO for commonality. Heck, maybe even upsize to the 320NEO and get some increased capacity on inter-Island flights along with the ability to fit in runs to the mainland. Or maybe even a CS300 for the same reasons, capacity and range. Or alternatively, move to all turboprops for inter-Island travel.

I wouldn't think the E195 E2 would be the front-runner in that contest. But anything can happen.
 
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:55 pm

Quoting HNLPointShoot (Reply 22):

Interesting, the E-195 E2 will be entering service around the time HA will probably be looking for a 717 replacement.

HA will naturally bid off the E2 vs. CS100/CS300.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 27):
Or maybe even a CS300 for the same reasons, capacity and range.

With the A321NEO doing the run to the mainland, I could see HA buying a dedicated short haul aircraft and they are *the* short haul airline IMHO.

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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:39 pm

Quoting golfradio (Reply 26):

I don't mean to disparage the E2 program or rain on the parade, but I have a genuine question. Why would an airline commit for 100 firm orders for types that are not going to enter service for the next 5 years and not look at the CSeries which is very close to EIS, would be very mature by 2018 and potentially have engine PIPs further boosting it's performance? A fleet of 100 should make fleet commonality and pilot re-training insignificant. So what gives?


Assuming you are talking about SkyWest, ignoring commonality with their E175 order from a couple weeks ago, there's a issue with the CSeries that makes it problematic for SkyWest. It's too big. The aircraft need to remain within the scope clauses of OOs partners, and the E175 is at the top of the allowable size. Even the smallest CSeries is too large.

[Edited 2013-06-17 13:40:26]
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:56 pm

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 29):

Thanks. Scope clauses ... now I get it, in the context of Skywest. I still wonder about the ILFC order for the 25 E190 + 25 E195, though it's just an LOI and not a firm order.
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:34 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):

Does anyone know any details of the 'new wing?' Is it an extension? CFRP (unlikely I know, but I thought I'd ask)? Just wing tip treatments? Did they stick with a common wing? (Images hint otherwise, but I'm not sure with the E-175-E2.

The span is larger. Below is a very quick graphic I knocked up using a 3D E190 model I had to hand - it's overlayed onto the E2-195 model so terribly accurate but enough to give you an idea of the span. The E2-175 has a slightly different wing - still a greater span than the current E-175.




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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:00 pm

Congrats to Embraer!      

A great plane gets even better...

One thing I'm curious is how they're gonna fit 132 standard config Y seats on this thing. I'd like to know the official length of the -195e2, but with 33 rows @ (presumably) 32" pitch, that makes for one LONG fuselage. Will the -195 be severely range-restricted, or will the new wing and engines give it comparable range to the current -190?

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 23):

I see the E195 E2 HD variant aimed very much at easyJet and to a lesser extent the hybrid European carriers like airBerlin, new germanWings, etc, I think it would be a massive boost for the programme to secure easyJet and really take the wind out of the C Series sails.

I think it will get plenty of European interest & orders, but I don't know if this necessarily gives it an advantage over the Cseries for airlines like Easyjet. Keep in mind, many were wondering whether the 160-165 seat high density capacity offered by the CS-300 would be large enough for Easyjet's needs, and the -195 is a full step lower than that even.
 
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:35 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
Does anyone know any details of the 'new wing?' Is it an extension? CFRP (unlikely I know, but I thought I'd ask)? Just wing tip treatments? Did they stick with a common wing? (Images hint otherwise, but I'm not sure with the E-175-E2.

No detail specs in the press release via Rueters

Quote:
New aerodynamically advanced, high-aspect ratio, distinctively shaped wings, improved systems and avionics, including 4th generation full fly-by-wire flight controls, and Pratt & Whitney's PurePower Geared Turbofan high by-pass ratio engines (PW1700G on the E175-E2, PW1900G on the E190-E2 and E195-E2) will result in double-digit reductions in fuel consumption, emissions, noise and maintenance costs, and increased aircraft availability.
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:42 pm

Quoting golfradio (Reply 26):
and potentially have engine PIPs further boosting it's performance?

E2's and C-series will have *very* related engines. In effect, E2 development will pay for and test a C-series PIP. They will each benefit from 'economy of scale' from the other.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 31):
The span is larger.

Thanks. I was wondering on fuel tankage and it looks like a small increase, but not a lot. There will be more range added than just engine efficiency, but not a lot from first glances.

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 32):
Keep in mind, many were wondering whether the 160-165 seat high density capacity offered by the CS-300 would be large enough for Easyjet's needs, and the -195 is a full step lower than that even.

IMHO this will force Bombardier to develop the CS500.

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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:38 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 18):
Today Mitsubishi said FAL start will begin within 2 months and it should fly at the end of the year.

http://twitter.com/tohmavis/status/346549031113203712

4 months to complete final assembly and first flight ? The first flight will be in 2014, at best.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
Does anyone know any details of the 'new wing?' Is it an extension? CFRP (unlikely I know, but I thought I'd ask)? Just wing tip treatments? Did they stick with a common wing? (Images hint otherwise, but I'm not sure with the E-175-E2.

I can't see E-jet E2 with the same wing. The first time I see FTV1, I was incredibly amazed by the size of the engine.
 
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:43 am

Quoting queb (Reply 35):
I can't see E-jet E2 with the same wing.

As per Rueters link above... "New aerodynamically advanced, high-aspect ratio, distinctively shaped wings.
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:56 am

Quoting golfradio (Reply 26):

Scope. I believe Skywest is banking on some relaxation of scope by DL/ UA/ AA, and whatever they are counting I'm sure still wouldn't be enough to allow the C-Series in any of its proposed configurations. Now the E175 is a known factor and is already flying for regionals. This of course is IMHO.

  
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:17 am

I found a bit more on the E2:

In a typical single-class layout, the E175-E2 was extended by one seat row, compared to the current generation E175, and will seat up to 88 passengers, while the E190-E2 keeps the same size as the E190, of up to 106 seats. The E195-E2, compared to the current E195, has grown three seat rows and will accommodate up to 132 seats.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/embrae...2-second-generation-101700731.html


From this, I take away:
1. The E190-E2 will be the same fuselage as the current E-190.
2. The E-195-E2 is going to be stretched considerably.
3. The E-175-E2 is stretched a tiny amount from the current E-175. It might be all an 'internal stretch.'


The E195 is growing by 3 rows!   

Some promises from the same link:
will result in double-digit reductions in fuel consumption,
and increased aircraft availability.    What is changing? I'll have to go through this vendor list to see if any vendors changed:
Other suppliers and partners for the E-Jets E2 have been announced previously: Liebherr (control systems for flaps and slats), Moog (fly-by-wire), Rockwell Collins (horizontal stabilizer control system), UTC Aerospace Systems (wheels, brakes, APU, electrical system), Intertechnique (engine and APU fuel feed, pressure refueling, fuel transfer, fuel tank inerting and ventilation, and fuel gauging and control), Crane Aerospace & Electronics (electronic control module for landing gear, brake control systems and proximity sensors), Triumph (fuselage segments, rudder and elevators) and Aernnova Aerospace (vertical and horizontal stabilizers).

What I do know is Embraer is being a stickler for definition of vendor parts. Well, they have been for a while...

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tharanga
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:38 am

While the E2 family sounds cool from a branding perspective, does anybody else think that E190-E2 is an awkward name?
 
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:20 am

Quoting tharanga (Reply 39):
While the E2 family sounds cool from a branding perspective, does anybody else think that E190-E2 is an awkward name?

They could drop the first 'E' without losing its identity...190E2...rolls smoothly off the tongue. But others would immediately associate it with MB.

It becomes tricky when you get to the '5'. Anyway, this is one beautiful bird.....

http://www.embraer.com/PublishingImages/press-releases/fly_new_175.jpg
http://www.embraer.com/PublishingImages/press-releases/fly_new_175.jpg

[Edited 2013-06-17 20:46:51]
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:38 am

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 9):
The E195 is already a headache for ground ops... The holds are a frustration for ground staff and it is a pain in the a$$ to balance... unlike other aircraft where an uneven distribution of pax onboard does not make a huge difference, the E195 simply makes loadplanners mad... I am one of them -.-"

I expect the stretch to be even more of a problem for ground ops....

Do the E195s tend to be nose-heavy or tail-heavy with an uneven passenger load? Might adding the bulk of the fuselage stretch either ahead of or behind the wing on the E2 version help to correct this load balance sensitivity?
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:50 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 24):
Doesn't Boeing have a patent on raked wingtips?

I think I have read a few months ago either in FG or AW that Boeing will help Embraer with development of the E-Jet update. Surely, raked wing tips could be used by Embraer under license from Boeing, right?
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:22 am

Are these planes suitable as private business jets?
 
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:27 am

Raked tips eat gate space, best wingtip device for cruise and longer routes. The P8 has them on the 737 wing even, not gate constrained.
 
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Paolo92
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:15 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 41):
Do the E195s tend to be nose-heavy or tail-heavy with an uneven passenger load? Might adding the bulk of the fuselage stretch either ahead of or behind the wing on the E2 version help to correct this load balance sensitivity?

The E195 is very tail heavy, E190 not so much, but they all have a very restricted range of balance.
Basically, if the airplane is full (of pax) you cannot load anything in the aft hold.... And the forward hold must be full.
It happened several times that on full flights quite some bags were left behind due to balance problems...
And now, unluckily, all daily flights I handle are E-Jets... LH Classic (737s and A320s) has withdrawn service and sends just regionals...
Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:28 am

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 40):
Quoting tharanga (Reply 39):
While the E2 family sounds cool from a branding perspective, does anybody else think that E190-E2 is an awkward name?

They could drop the first 'E' without losing its identity...190E2...rolls smoothly off the tongue. But others would immediately associate it with MB.

Perhaps they should have gone with E = mb²


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
Devilfish
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:48 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 46):
Perhaps they should have gone with E = mb²

Will it fly at the speed of light as a result?  .

I guess Embraer would be very pleased already if it just flew off the assembly line as fast as they could churn it out.  

[Edited 2013-06-18 14:56:02]
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
queb
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:02 am

All infos & specs about E2 here:

E175-E2:

Dimensions (Length +0,6 m):
E190-E2

Dimensions (Length unchanged):
E195-E2

Dimensions (Length +2,8m):
Engines:

 
Aviaponcho
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RE: Embraer To Launch E-Jet E2 Family

Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:53 am

SO E190G2 = + 5450 kg OEW on a 27820 kg bird = +20 % ?

Seems huge !

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