flybaurlax
Topic Author
Posts: 588
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:34 am

UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:03 pm

It looks like United Flight 139 is diverting to SEA from its DEN-NRT flight.

I heard through the grapevine it's engine trouble. I"ll post pictures if I see it here.

http://www.flightradar24.com/
Boilerup! Go Purdue!
 
71Zulu
Posts: 1605
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:42 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:06 pm

Clickable links only please!
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:10 pm

Technically SEA would be a diversion and not an Air Turn Back. It wasn't a diversion to the nearest alternate since they were over 1 hour from SEA. The associated slow descent (driftdown style) from altitude is interesting. I'm struggling to think of a reason why they would descent at 300 fpm without diverting to the nearest alternate.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
flybaurlax
Topic Author
Posts: 588
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:34 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:38 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 2):

Good point. Should have been divert, sorry.

Yeah there were fire truck escorts and the FAA Mercedes up to it immediately at the gate. There are guys looking under the #1 engine, cowl not open yet.
Boilerup! Go Purdue!
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5129
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:14 am

What is it with United and this aircraft? The word on other threads is that the 787 is presently a PITA because the monitoring systems and buggy software produce a million little squawks that have to be handled before the next flight.

However, everyone but United seems to be able to get their aircraft ready for the next flight.

Is it just that the Japanese, Polish, and Ethiopian workers put their heads down and get the job done faster and better than their United brethren?

Or is there something else going on? I know there are relatively-few data points out there, but if ANA can run 60 of these things on-time, why can't United make 5 work?

[Edited 2013-06-18 17:16:21]
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 22953
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:19 am

Seattle's NBC affiliate reports that the flight crew received a warning about the oil filter ( assume in one of the GEnx engines): http://www.king5.com/news/aerospace/...deverted-to-Sea-Tac-212068071.html

[Edited 2013-06-18 17:19:45]
 
aztrainer
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:17 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:19 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 4):
What is it with United and this aircraft? The word on other threads is that the 787 is presently a PITA because the monitoring systems and buggy software produce a million little squawks that have to be handled before the next flight.

However, everyone but United seems to be able to get their aircraft ready for the next flight.

Is it just that the Japanese, Polish, and Ethiopian workers put their heads down and get the job done faster and better than their United brethren?

Or is there something else going on? I know there are relatively-few data points out there, but if ANA can run 60 of these things on-time, why can't United make 5 work?

Good question, but it also could be a learning curve for the UA crews.

Also, if this was a 767, 777, or 747 (or any other aircraft) this may of been a blip on the news or not made any news at all. I think a lot of it is due to the previous problems with the 787, so the media will blow anything that happens on one out of portions. IMHO
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5129
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:23 am

Oh, I know we will hear about every single problem. The Japanese media, in particular, is on high alert about this aircraft. More and more, though, the Problem Child seems to be UA.

Are there any below-the-radar labor issues burbling around this a/c?
 
FirstClass
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:04 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:40 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 4):

United operates roughly 10% of the 787 delivered so far, so any issue with the 787 has quite a fair chance being one of the United birds
 
jayunited
Posts: 1267
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 4):
However, everyone but United seems to be able to get their aircraft ready for the next flight.

Is it just that the Japanese, Polish, and Ethiopian workers put their heads down and get the job done faster and better than their United brethren?

Or is there something else going on? I know there are relatively-few data points out there, but if ANA can run 60 of these things on-time, why can't United make 5 work?

Really then explain this article which hasn't been reported on this website it pertains to ANA and their 787's the article states that the week of Jun 12th ANA had to cancel 3 of their Dreamliner flights one was due in no small part to the fact on of the engines would even start. But yet you claim ANA is running all 60 Dreamliner's ontime. I think not.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...fter-engine-fails-to-start-1-.html

You want to come after United come after us for a real reason God knows we have plenty of things that are wrong and we need to fix but what is happening with the 788 is normal and it is happening to all operators just because its not reported on A.netters every time other airlines have issues with their Dreamliner's does not mean that those operators are not experience problems just the same.
 
klkla
Posts: 625
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:51 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:44 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 7):
Are there any below-the-radar labor issues burbling around this a/c?

This was my initial reaction, too, being as they seem to be having a lot more issues than other 787 operators. But probably just an abundance of caution (which isn't necessarily a bad thing from a passenger safety standpoint).
 
seahawks7757
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:54 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:48 am

Here is a pic of it that has come online on the ground in Seattle-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/seahawks7757/9079096923/
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 1245
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:55 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 7):
Are there any below-the-radar labor issues burbling around this a/c?
Quoting klkla (Reply 10):
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 7):
Are there any below-the-radar labor issues burbling around this a/c?

This was my initial reaction, too, being as they seem to be having a lot more issues than other 787 operators.

Yes, by all means, let's blame labor without a shred of evidence.

For what's it worth, the handful of guys I know on the 787s are staunchly pro-787 and rave about the aircraft. They want it to work.

Could it be that they did the right thing in reacting to a caution or warning EICAS message?

This is armchair quarterbacking at it's worst. You should know better. It's a new aircraft and will be buggy for some time.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
flood
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:05 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:07 am

Quoting jayunited (Reply 9):
Really then explain this article which hasn't been reported on this website it pertains to ANA and their 787's the article states that the week of Jun 12th ANA had to cancel 3 of their Dreamliner flights

From June 7-9 alone and with only six 787s, UA had more disruptions to their schedule than ANA has had all month thus far - and ANA operates 18 of them.

The issues you're referring to were reported here:
ANA 787 Engine Issue At Fukuoka (by PHX787 Jun 10 2013 in Civil Aviation)
 
kalvado
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:14 am

Quoting Aztrainer (Reply 6):
Also, if this was a 767, 777, or 747 (or any other aircraft) this may of been a blip on the news or not made any news at all. I think a lot of it is due to the previous problems with the 787, so the media will blow anything that happens on one out of portions. IMHO

More interesting question is how this event would affect type statistics. Given there are not that may frames, and event being an engine issue - if it counts towards ETOPS failure rate, event may be more newsworthy than average 767/777/330 issue due to the hit on performance stats.
 
tortugamon
Posts: 6674
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:14 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:16 am

Is this the first service to SEA? Do they get a water cannon welcome ?     

Hope they get it figured out an turned around.

tortugamon
 
jben
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:42 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:21 am

Oh good grief. On any given day, every airline (of sufficient size) will have at least one aircraft that has an issue. I'm waiting for a 787 to fly into heavy chop and some coffee spills onto a passenger's chair. The headline will be "passengers nearly killed by flying coffin".

No, this should be a sign that everything is working as designed. The pilots got a warning from the system involved and followed the company procedures. Everything went brilliantly. People were only mildly inconvenienced. Nobody lost anything. Also, it's a new aircraft with new engines. Every single aircraft ever introduced has problems, every aircraft has AD's and every individual plane will go tech at some point in its service life.
 
PEK777
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:56 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:23 am

The bird was just a little homesick, wanted to visit the old neighborhood.
 
klkla
Posts: 625
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:51 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:26 am

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 12):
This is armchair quarterbacking at it's worst. You should know better. It's a new aircraft and will be buggy for some time.

You should now better than quoting someone out of context

When you quote this:

Quoting klkla (Reply 10):

This was my initial reaction, too, being as they seem to be having a lot more issues than other 787 operators.

Without including this:

Quoting klkla (Reply 10):
But probably just an abundance of caution (which isn't necessarily a bad thing from a passenger safety standpoint).

You are being misleading.
 
NYC777
Posts: 5065
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:28 am

Geez, just an oil filter issue. Bet this aircraft will be back in service in 2 days max. The press has got to chill out.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
User avatar
CALTECH
Posts: 2741
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 4:21 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:35 am

What is a 'air turn back? ' A 'air return' would see the aircraft landing back at the airport it took off from, which is serious. It did not go back to Denver, but diverted into Seattle, which is a serious event too.

Some of these posts, yeah, wow, labor issues ? How about a engine that has a delta p message for oil filter clogging, which is what it sounds like ? United should have flown the airplane until the engine might have destroyed it's bearings among other things ? Now that would have made real noteworthy news. Hopefully it is just a bad indication and the filter did not clog with material.

[Edited 2013-06-18 20:16:53]
UNITED We Stand
 
goboeing
Posts: 2429
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 5:31 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:35 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 2):
I'm struggling to think of a reason why they would descent at 300 fpm without diverting to the nearest alternate.

Maybe they pulled back the power on the trouble engine to keep oil temp or pressure within limits, but kept the engine running at idle.

I have no idea what the UAL or 787 policy would be on that particular scenario but perhaps it's land as soon as practical and not as soon as possible.
 
jreuschl
Posts: 382
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:04 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:42 am

Why didn't they bring it back to the store in PAE? "I just bought this, fix it NOW!"

 
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 3920
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:43 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 15):
Is this the first service to SEA? Do they get a water cannon welcome ?

No. NH did NRT-SEA with a 787 before the grounding.
 
BoeingVista
Posts: 1670
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:54 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:49 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 2):
I'm struggling to think of a reason why they would descent at 300 fpm without diverting to the nearest alternate.
Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 21):
Maybe they pulled back the power on the trouble engine to keep oil temp or pressure within limits, but kept the engine running at idle.

ETOPS, it doesn't count as an engine shutdown if it remains at idle. I imagine the FAA will look at it anyway.
BV
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 1245
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:54 am

Quoting klkla (Reply 18):
You are being misleading.

Yet you admitted that you had considered some sort of labor action, too (in addition to the earlier post by wjcandee).

Perhaps the context of my post wasn't clear to you (and therefore, maybe to others as well) - it was more about the concern expressed about labor - including a comment made by you - rather than the bugs the aircraft has.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
flood
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:05 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:56 am

Looks like N26902 will be positioning as UA6854 IAH-SEA tomorrow morning to collect pax and operate as UA1749 SEA-NRT with departure 9:30 AM.

edit to add: UA initially had 902's positioning flight scheduled for this evening but moved it to tomorrow morning. The aircraft hasn't flown since arriving from LHR on Sunday. With 902 scheduled to collect the pax at SEA, Wednesday's UA134 IAH-ORD will be subbed by a 764ER.

[Edited 2013-06-18 21:11:22]
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5129
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:05 am

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 12):
This is armchair quarterbacking at it's worst.

Nonsense. It's a reasonable question. Someone said, "Well, 10% of the birds flying are United, so there's a good chance a problem will end up being on a United a/c." I say: 90% of the a/c flying are NOT United, and yet we're seeing lots of delays and are hearing reports that this is because UA maint is having to tackle a million squawks. I'm giving UA maint credit that all the other airlines must be having the same squawks (if they aren't, that's a separate issue), so it's not unreasonable to ask the question.

If the answer is that the UA mechanics are God, are the best anywhere on the a/c, love the thing, have no issues with management, and have plenty of time to do the work, then so be it.

But it's hardly armchair quarterbacking to ask what's up.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5129
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:17 am

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 12):
Could it be that they did the right thing in reacting to a caution or warning EICAS message?

Oh, please. If you get the message, you follow the procedure. I have been around here far too long to merit that kind of shot, and it was not even remotely my point.

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 20):
United should have flown the airplane until the engine might have destroyed it's bearings among other things ?

Ditto what I said above.

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 20):
Hopefully it is just a bad indication and the filter did not clog with material.

Absolutely agreed. And I'm also confident that we aren't going to be seeing an issue like the RB211 on the L1011 (metal shavings).

Quoting flood (Reply 13):
From June 7-9 alone and with only six 787s, UA had more disruptions to their schedule than ANA has had all month thus far - and ANA operates 18 of them.

THIS is the point -- and why it's appropriate to at least ask the question: bad luck, or something else?

Quoting jben (Reply 16):
Everything went brilliantly. People were only mildly inconvenienced.

I'm thinking that waiting -- what? -- almost 24 hours for another aircraft isn't going to be considered a "minor inconvenience" by the business folks paying $8,316 to ride BusinessFirst one way to NRT.
 
User avatar
CALTECH
Posts: 2741
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 4:21 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:54 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 28):
Oh, please. If you get the message, you follow the procedure. I have been around here far too long to merit that kind of shot, and it was not even remotely my point.

That's not how you posted it, as below. It just seemed like a cheap shot. It is a new bird and there is a learning curve.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 4):
What is it with United and this aircraft? The word on other threads is that the 787 is presently a PITA because the monitoring systems and buggy software produce a million little squawks that have to be handled before the next flight.

However, everyone but United seems to be able to get their aircraft ready for the next flight.

Is it just that the Japanese, Polish, and Ethiopian workers put their heads down and get the job done faster and better than their United brethren?

Or is there something else going on? I know there are relatively-few data points out there, but if ANA can run 60 of these things on-time, why can't United make 5 work?
Quoting flood (Reply 13):
From June 7-9 alone and with only six 787s, UA had more disruptions to their schedule than ANA has had all month thus far - and ANA operates 18 of them.

Ya think maybe ANA operating more 787s gives them a better opportunity to sub a aircraft for one that has gone tech ?
Should we say that ANA and JAL somehow are not as good as other 787 operators since they were the only ones who had battery incidents with thermal runaways that caused groundings of the 787 ? Maybe United is more cautious and safer than the Japanese, Polish and Ethiopian operators with a new aircraft ? Geez, it is a new aircraft and being cautious with it is not a bad way to be.
With this oil filter message, again, does anyone believe that the United flight should have pressed on ?
UNITED We Stand
 
comorin
Posts: 3857
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:52 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:09 am

In the days of yore, (McAUTO and BCS) great pride was taken in the quality if software written, and these guys arguably wrote the book on software development. So what happened to the software on the 787? Is it as buggy as alleged, and was it also contracted out? Given the acute shortage of quality software engineers in the industry (all selling their souls in Silicon Valley writing Javascript) I am not surprised.

I also know there is a move in the aerospace industry to move to COTS product but I would not want to be flying on something powered by Jelly Bean.

I am very curious to hear from a.netters in the industry about 787 software issues, real and imagined - thanks!

McAuto = McDonnell Douglas Automation Services
BCS = Boeing Computer Services
COTS = Commercial Off The Shelf
 
flood
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:05 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:33 am

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 29):
Ya think maybe ANA operating more 787s gives them a better opportunity to sub a aircraft for one that has gone tech ?

Obviously, but I'm not talking about substitutions in advance. When your aircraft goes tech and has to return to the gate, having another 20 aircraft sitting around as spares won't magically make the delays associated with an aircraft change go away.
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 4328
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:37 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 4):
Or is there something else going on? I know there are relatively-few data points out there, but if ANA can run 60 of these things on-time, why can't United make 5 work?

No offence but Japanese have efficiency programmed in their DNA. I travelled in Tokyo last month & their transportation network operates like clockwork & reliable! (I know Japanese are not robots)

EK8413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 22953
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:40 am

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 29):
Ya think maybe ANA operating more 787s gives them a better opportunity to sub a aircraft for one that has gone tech?

I believe both NH and JL keeps spare 787s on "hot standby" in Tokyo to sub in for a broken bird, though depending on where the original went tech, there could be a fair bit of delay in getting the replacement on site (as flood noted).

[Edited 2013-06-18 22:41:06]
 
copter808
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:14 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:47 am

Quoting comorin (Reply 31):
I am very curious to hear from a.netters in the industry about 787 software issues, real and imagined - thanks!

I flew on it last Thursday, NRT-DEN with no problems, and will do it again. I've also flown aircraft as a crewmember and gotten warning lights. We did what we gotta do--landed and fixed it. NO emergency, just following procedures.
 
User avatar
Aquila3
Posts: 496
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:18 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:25 am

Quoting comorin (Reply 31):
I am very curious to hear from a.netters in the industry about 787 software issues, real and imagined - thanks!

I am interested too, from a professional POW.
Maybe would be interesting to open a topic in tech/ops , tough.
chi vola vale chi vale vola chi non vola è un vile
 
justloveplanes
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:38 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:09 am

Done!

787 Software Incidents (by justloveplanes Jun 19 2013 in Tech Ops)

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 37):
I am interested too, from a professional POW.
Maybe would be interesting to open a topic in tech/ops , tough.
 
brilondon
Posts: 3014
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:09 am

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 12):

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 7):
Are there any below-the-radar labor issues burbling around this a/c?
Quoting klkla (Reply 10):
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 7):
Are there any below-the-radar labor issues burbling around this a/c?

This was my initial reaction, too, being as they seem to be having a lot more issues than other 787 operators.

Yes, by all means, let's blame labor without a shred of evidence.

For what's it worth, the handful of guys I know on the 787s are staunchly pro-787 and rave about the aircraft. They want it to work.

Could it be that they did the right thing in reacting to a caution or warning EICAS message?

This is armchair quarterbacking at it's worst. You should know better. It's a new aircraft and will be buggy for some time.

It could also be a collision with a UFO like the plane in China...

I love this forum, I love a good story without facts and take what is said to be the facts without evidence. People are looking for fire where there is no smoke...pun intended.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
softrally
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:32 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:16 am

Does anyone know the registration for this aircraft? I flew on this flight last Saturday on N20904.
Flown on: 738, 744, 762/763, 772, 77W, 788, A306, A318/319/320/321, A332/333, E145, E190, CRJ700
 
flood
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:05 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:19 am

It was N26906.

Now being substituted by 904 (UA initially scheduled 902)
 
User avatar
kgaiflyer
Posts: 2567
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:22 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:19 am

table border="0" align="CENTER" width="95%" class="quote" >Quoting PEK777 (Reply 17):
The bird was just a little homesick, wanted to visit the old neighborhood.
Quoting jreuschl (Reply 22):
Why didn't they bring it back to the store in PAE? "I just bought this, fix it NOW!"

Two great lines.   
 
klwright69
Posts: 2318
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:23 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 28):
Quoting jben (Reply 16):
Everything went brilliantly. People were only mildly inconvenienced.

I'm thinking that waiting -- what? -- almost 24 hours for another aircraft isn't going to be considered a "minor inconvenience" by the business folks paying $8,316 to ride BusinessFirst one way to NRT.

The flight from NRT to DEN is cancelled today. Earlier, as in two hours ago, it showed a 19 hour delay. I then looked at the seat map. Nearly all the seats were empty. Clearly everyone had already been rebooked on other flights today. Therefore with the 19 hour delay it would have gone out empty anyway. So cancellation was the obvious next step.

The same flight for tomorrow is showing space available in both business and economy. Therefore everyone got out today.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 2980
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:08 am

Is it true, US based airlines have very tight turnaround times. Could this be a factor for UA 787's poor dispatch reliability and glitches. May be UA need to pad few extra hours to their 787 schedules. Also offer yoga lessons to 787 maintenance engineers.
 
flood
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:05 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:40 am

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 44):
Is it true, US based airlines have very tight turnaround times.

I'm not familiar with average turnaround times but UA appears to have increased the turnaround times for their 787s slightly since before the grounding. They used to do some at around 1.5 hrs, now they're at 2 hrs or longer.

Here's a sample schedule from May 28th... been too lazy to do a current one.
http://www.pdxlight.com/787/UA787may.jpg

Last I checked (many moons ago) ANA was doing some turns in 45 mins and didn't appear to be having any issues doing so.
 
User avatar
n797mx
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:40 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:27 pm

Clear skies and strong tail winds.
 
catiii
Posts: 2387
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:09 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 36):
Or is it never permitted to question whether there might be a labor issue lurking? They pop up in unexpected places...like AA 965, for example.

What would you say the "labor issue" was that led to the crash?
 
klwright69
Posts: 2318
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:28 pm

If you look at UA's website and check the flight's status, yesterday's flight has been completely taken down, no delay, no cancellation, no nothing. It's as if the flight didn't exist that day at all.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 3920
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:31 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 47):
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 36):
Or is it never permitted to question whether there might be a labor issue lurking? They pop up in unexpected places...like AA 965, for example.

What would you say the "labor issue" was that led to the crash?

I'm not getting it either. AA 965 was a combination of factors that had nothing to do with, say, the maintenance of the airplane or any other labor related things. The fact that Colombian rebels had destroyed the ILS didn't help.

No matter how bad a labor dispute in any industry could be, I can't imagine anyone ever intentionally taking action that could risk other people's lives.
 
USAIRWAYS321
Posts: 1703
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 4:31 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:45 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 43):
The flight from NRT to DEN is cancelled today. Earlier, as in two hours ago, it showed a 19 hour delay. I then looked at the seat map. Nearly all the seats were empty. Clearly everyone had already been rebooked on other flights today. Therefore with the 19 hour delay it would have gone out empty anyway. So cancellation was the obvious next step.

The same flight for tomorrow is showing space available in both business and economy. Therefore everyone got out today.

The passengers needing to be accommodated would be in SEA, not DEN. Available space on DEN-NRT wouldn't prove that everyone got out the same day.
 
User avatar
glideslope
Posts: 1422
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 8:06 pm

RE: UA 787 FLT 139 Air Turn Back

Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:03 pm

Worthless Thread. Should be closed.   
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu

Who is online