Pihero
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A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:26 pm

We're just at the beginning of the A350 flight tests program.
The first flights were fun to follow on flightradar and the various streams of videos we could find ; but these will disappear soon.
We shall discuss what was done on the first three flights and make assumptions on the next steps.
Back to you soon.

Regards to all.
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slinky09
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:54 pm

I like this new thread and agree with the intent.

Where is the A350 after three flights compared to the B787 flight test programme? Seems Airbus is very mature.
 
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:00 pm

Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 2):
Does anybody know when the next flight is scheduled after today's mega 8+ hr flight?

I assume they will make weekly flights from now, perhaps even every day.
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Pihero
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:14 pm

Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 2):
I have a feeling the other thread got removed instead...

It's ok.
Quite an exciting day, today :
- The longest flight : 8 hours 30 +
- Long runs at Mach .84
- An airline-type of slotting into commercial traffic + a STAR + a hold
- The fly-past
- Return to serious matters with another run at Mach .84 ~ 85
............... I missed a lot.....................................................
- A return to TLS with some sector work : Descents at Vmo / Exploration of the Normal law Alpha protection ( descent at - I assume - alpha prot where a 117 kt ground speed was recorded - some 140 TAS and around 110 kt IAS .
Alpha prot is the AoA at which the pitch authority reverts to a direct relation between sidestick angle and deflection of the elevator. Stick free, the airplane reverts to maintaining alpha prot.

The long cruise phases must have allowed quite a lot of performance data to be gathered, plus an improved test instruments calibration... and of course testing all the flight control laws (normal / alternate / direct) but these are transparent to us.

I think that the program is progressing very well - and fast. I would not be surprised to see a VD test very soon : Better watch for it as it comprises a 7.5° dive for 20 seconds, followed by a 1.5g pull up. The TAS should be around 480 kt and the vertical speed some 6000 ft/min . Could have been done today, though, as Scipio reported but I couldn't find it on the playback.

The next step will be to open the gust envelope, with the determination of all design speeds : maneuvering (VA), cruise (VC), turbulence (VB or Vra for *rough air*) etc...

As you can see, for the time being, this thread will be about performance and piloting. Most of the *ancillary tests* - although very important will just be subjects of wild guesswork : Fuel system ; pressurisation ; pneumatics... for thoise, we'll have to wait for an Airbus report or na kind soul close to the flight testing department.
We can hope, can't we ?
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Pihero
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:19 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 4):
I assume they will make weekly flights from now, perhaps even every day.

Someone told me ,that the initial rythm will be Flight + three days of rest / review / maintenance + Fligfht ...

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 3):
Seems Airbus is very mature.

They seem to be very confident, to say the least.

Could someone upload the schedule for initial flights of the other prototypes from the Ferpe's thread ?

PS : I spent the whole afrternoon singing "Ain't she sweet ? " an old song of may father's era :
..".I repeat
Don't you think she's kind of sweet
Now I ask you very confidentially
Ain't she sweet?
"

[Edited 2013-06-21 15:27:33]
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:25 pm

Here you go:

http://oi40.tinypic.com/2uj1fzq.jpg



http://oi41.tinypic.com/6sg9ol.jpg
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:47 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 5):
I think that the program is progressing very well - and fast. I would not be surprised to see a VD test very soon : Better watch for it as it comprises a 7.5° dive for 20 seconds, followed by a 1.5g pull up. The TAS should be around 480 kt and the vertical speed some 6000 ft/min . Could have been done today, though, as Scipio reported but I couldn't find it on the playback.

As I said earlier, I saw her in a sustained 6,000+ fpm dive. 20 secs sounds about right. I also saw her climbing at times at around and above 3,000 fpm.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 312):
Seems you had a lot of fun today guys  

We missed you...

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 307):
Again Congratulations Airbus!!

Can't be said enough. Things seem to be going really well now. 18+ hours of flight and 5 cycles in the first 8 days of testing...

The PAS fly-by at just 600 ft was a show of confidence, but just a minor episode in today's 8 1/2 hour test flight. As it should be...
 
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:07 pm

Quoting Scipio (Reply 6):
but just a minor episode in today's 8 1/2 hour test flight. As it should be...

Not so minor : a friend of mine had tears in his eyes... his girlfriend was cheering...

Quoting Scipio (Reply 6):
As I said earlier, I saw her in a sustained 6,000+ fpm dive. 20 secs sounds about right. I also saw her climbing at times at around and above 3,000 fpm.

So    on that test. Want to know the results and the values... Anyone there ?
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:18 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 7):
So    on that test. Want to know the results and the values... Anyone there ?

Look at the playback on fr24 starting from 16:30 UTC. She goes from FL 200 to FL 130 in no time.

For your convenience: She is near Limoux at 16:30 at the start of that replay.

[Edited 2013-06-21 16:53:01]
 
Bogi
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:53 pm

This Is Another Very Good Official Thread With Many Interesting Infomations And Photos.

Only two days between the second and third flight test.
When is the fourth flight test expected?
 
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:50 am

So how many flight hours do they need in order to reach certification? When with MSNs 002 and 003 fly?
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:34 am

So not having much knowledge here so i'll ask a probably dumb question, for the tests mentioned above with steep dives and climbs, does A rely on the sensors and gauges to determine structural integrity, or will the periodically look into inspection panels and carry out some borescope type of activities in the early phases?

Thanks
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:00 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):
Here you go:

So from the chart it looks like the second aircraft off the assembly line (MSN003) will not fly until the end of September? I assume the long gap is so that some things learned from MSN001 can be incorporated in 003?
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:02 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):
So how many flight hours do they need in order to reach certification?

c. 2 500 hours. They're 3/4% through already  
Quoting Bogi (Reply 9):
When is the fourth flight test expected?

I'm sure I read somewhere that for the next period it will typically be a flight roughly every 3 days

Rgds
 
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:29 am

Quoting hivue (Reply 12):
So from the chart it looks like the second aircraft off the assembly line (MSN003) will not fly until the end of September? I assume the long gap is so that some things learned from MSN001 can be incorporated in 003?

Could be that Airbus is just very conservative with their dates...
Up until last week they said First Flight would be "During the Summer" and it flew before the summer...  

I expect MSN003 coming out of Station 30 very soon anyways, Station 18 and 20 + Paint in the coming months
 
speedbird128
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:08 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 3):
as Scipio reported but I couldn't find it on the playback.

The playback of FR24 is a sample of data every x seconds or minutes... it would be easy for that data sample of -6000fpm to not be played back.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 4):
Someone told me ,that the initial rythm will be Flight + three days of rest / review / maintenance + Fligfht ...

Excellent. Fits in with my off days LOL!
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:27 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 12):
So from the chart it looks like the second aircraft off the assembly line (MSN003) will not fly until the end of September? I assume the long gap is so that some things learned from MSN001 can be incorporated in 003?

It looks long, but:

> MSN001 FAL start was in September 25, 2012 and it flew on June 14, 2013, making 9 months until first flight
> MSN003 FAL start was in February 15, 2013 and it will fly around September 30, 2013, making 8 months until first flight
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:00 am

Quoting astuteman (Reply 13):
c. 2 500 hours. They're 3/4% through already

Alright we're on a roll! 
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 16):
> MSN003 FAL start was in February 15, 2013 and it will fly around September 30, 2013, making 8 months until first flight

Now what about MSN002......
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:44 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 17):
Now what about MSN002......

MSN002 arrived at the FAL just before the airshow... I'd guess that that one is in Station 50 now (fuselage join)
 
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:21 am

MSN002 should fly in January 2014, that's also 8 months between FAL start and first flight.
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BobMUC
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:48 pm

Hi, as we have seen during the first 3 days of test flights, they haven't left the airspace controlled by France ATC.
Are there any rules when they are allowed to fly into other airspace or even to land at other airports?
Or is this just a matter of avoiding paperwork, to request special permissions etc.?

P.S.: Any confirmation for the next flight? A chance for Monday or is the 3-day break after every flight at this point of time confirmed?

Thank you!
 
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:02 am

So... Is today the day again?
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:11 am

AIB4XB just triggered on my fr24 app
 
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:37 am

AIB4WB is in the air!
 
Pihero
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:11 am

@ 11:08 L, a consistent run at TAS = 520 kt ---> Mach.89, i.e MMO
We're in for another series of flight law tests at high Mach.
Nice beginning.

Slow down to Mach.72 and acceleration back to MMO. Some VS fluctuations.

[Edited 2013-06-25 02:20:47]
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Bogi
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:22 am

Quoting bobmuc (Reply 23):
AIB4WB is in the air!
Fantastic.
Cozy after four rather than as the PAS after only two days.
How long will go this fourth flight test?
 
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:33 am

A run at FL 350 / Mach .84. Alt steady as rock : A/P on.
11:30 L, acceleration to Mach .85, still maintaining FL 350.
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:33 am

Quoting Bogi (Reply 25):
How long will go this fourth flight test?

Hmm let's have a look.



Nope, nothing. Sorry, my crystal ball is broken.
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:35 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 27):
Nope, nothing. Sorry, my crystal ball is broken.

The way the day started, it looks like another very long flight as they seem to be testing cruise and high Machs.
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Aviaponcho
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:38 am

Maybe if someone has the TOW for this flight :d
 
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:41 am

Going to Broughton and Derby ... via Nantes?
Return Hambourg, Nordenham, munchen, illescas ?

:D

So a 8 h flight also ! 
 
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:51 am

Oups missed Nantes and Saint Nazaire 
 
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:53 am

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 30):
Going to Broughton and Derby

During the Paris airshow, it was mentioned that the crew will fly over Derby later in the program. So maybe today.
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:02 am

I was only partly joking ....
I've also read that 
 
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:04 am

@11:55 L :
FL 350 / OAT -51°C / Wind 310°:75 kt
GS = 416 kt ---> Mach .86 / IAS 295 kt. / TAS 491 kt.

11:50 : Now reversing course GS = 537 kt, but climb to FL 390... Sh@t ! I wanted to get a precise wind component( !

[Edited 2013-06-25 03:05:07]
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speedbird128
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:44 am

2 hours down and all is well...  

WWDD has done a long haul cruise flight at F430 today too...
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:02 am

At least right now, it looks like a fly-by/over at Saint-Nazaire!
 
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:04 am

Just came home from my french lecture and now heading into work, nice to see that the Airliners surveillance center is manned as usual, can't let her fly unsurveyed can we   Wow!
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speedbird128
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:04 am

Quoting bobmuc (Reply 36):

At least right now, it looks like a fly-by/over at Saint-Nazaire!

There is a possibility - they're in the region although still at F165 level flight...
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:07 am

FL 120 / 210 IAS : That's the initial approach speed. See if there are some variations showing another series of configuration tests.
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speedbird128
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:14 am

EDIT: Nevermind I answered my own question...

Did a real tight 180' turn now...

[Edited 2013-06-25 04:15:15]
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:22 am

Yep : 164 kt = 140 IAS, should be right for a landing config 3 or full.
Altitude is still rock solid. Either a very switrched-on pilot or,more likely an A/P test.
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Pihero
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:29 am

13:26 :
153 GS = 143 TAS ---> 116 kt IAS for more than 3 minutes !
Alpha prot shoud be it !
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speedbird128
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:37 am

Pihero, do you know when they will do a missed approach at minimums on th approach path?
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Pihero
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:53 am

I don't think it will be very soon : They seem to be validating both the control laws and the autopilot for the moment.

171 kt GS = 191 TAS and 158 IAS on a northern track, still at the same IAS.
This confirms the Bracknell Wind at 350°/20 kt.

[Edited 2013-06-25 04:58:24]
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Aviaponcho
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:54 am

It's a 7h flight, so all the way to 17h15...
 
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:59 am

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 45):
It's a 7h flight, so all the way to 17h15...

Sources appreciated, please !   
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:01 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 44):

I don't think it will be very soon : They seem to be validating both the control laws and the autopilot for the moment.

For sure I totally understand there are a lot of systems validations to be done!

Like when we install a new radar system it's hardly flick the switch and start working.

I was just wondering how far down the line... Burning for a visit to TLS.
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:26 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 37):
Just came home from my french lecture and now heading into work, nice to see that the Airliners surveillance center is manned as usual, can't let her fly unsurveyed can we   

It is really nice indeed. And this is what it is all about. Flight testing the A350-XWB, one of the most promising projects in civil aviation in last 20 years or so. And with many posters out here keeping us all up to date with the latest information without turning this thread into an endless and pointless discussion. Here we enjoy the miracle of new airplanes in civil aviation.  
 
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread

Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:30 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 48):
And with many posters out here keeping us all up to date with the latest information without turning this thread into an endless and pointless discussion.

We are also lucky to be living in 2013, where we can track almost everything on the internet and watch live streams in high quality.
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