BLRAviation
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Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:20 pm

Part 103 got archived and cannot be continued, and since no one started a new thread, I am taking the liberty. Click here to read Part 103.

Looks like Jet is starting the closing of its BRU scissor hub. As per a ch-aviation report

Quote:
Jet Airways (9W, Mumbai Int'l) has filed for slots with Amsterdam Airport authorities to operate a daily A330-300 Delhi Int'l - Amsterdam - Toronto Pearson frequency, along with a daily A330-300 Mumbai Int'l - Amsterdam direct flight with effect from Winter 2013. In effect, this signifies the end of Jet's Brussels National scissors hub as well as the possible suspension of the destination itself as a whole. Jet's Newark service is expected to be re-routed as Mumbai Int'l - Abu Dhabi Int'l - Newark using a B777-300(ER) codeshared with new equity partner, Etihad Airways (EY, Abu Dhabi Int'l).
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BLRAviation
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:36 pm

Air India to commence DEL-SYD-MEL triangular service from end August.

From AirlineRoute

Quote:
After 16 years of service suspension, Air India from 29AUG13 returns to Australia market with Boeing 787 aircraft. Subject to Government Approval, the airline plans to operate 3 weekly Delhi – Melbourne – Sydney – Delhi and 4 weekly in opposite direction, starting 29AUG13. Reservation for Australia service opened on late-Friday 28JUN13 in the GDS (the airline has not yet open reservation on its own website).

Delhi – Sydney – Melbourne – Delhi eff 29AUG13 4 weekly
AI312 DEL1345 – 0630+1SYD0800+1 – 0935+1MEL 788 x357
AI311 SYD0800 – 0935MEL1050 – 1835DEL 788 x146

Delhi – Melbourne – Sydney – Delhi eff 30AUG13 3 weekly
AI312 DEL1300 – 0530+1MEL0700+1 – 0830+1SYD 788 357
AI311 MEL0700 – 0830SYD1000 – 1810DEL 788 146

Air India last operated service to Sydney in January 1991 with 1 weekly Delhi – Singapore – Sydney on board Boeing 747; Melbourne last served in April 1981. Perth was served until June 1997.
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Nimish
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:02 am

Thanks Devesh for restarting this thread.

Jetihad is in major trouble on the regulatory front - essentially 9W seems to be passing on full control though they've sold only 24% stake.

Quoting the papers today:

Quote:
Under the proposed transaction, Jet would sell its 24 per cent to Etihad Airways. Concerns have been primarily raised on the proposed ownership and control structure of the domestic airlines.

The PMO has asked for a review of the deal and it's likely to go under intense scrutiny (read - no official will let it go through as they'd then be suspected of colluding with the moneybags at Jetihad).
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BLRAviation
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:02 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 2):
Jetihad is in major trouble on the regulatory front - essentially 9W seems to be passing on full control though they've sold only 24% stake.

Two video reports from TimesNow TV.

The first report shows the Prime Minister's Office (PMO) trying to distance itself from the Jetihad deal despite a minutes of meeting (MOM) of an Inter-Ministerial Group of India's Finance, Foreign, Commerce and Civil Aviation ministers being called at the specific request of the Prime Minister. Quite obviously the PMO is running scared to protect against any blowback like the 2G scandal. http://www.timesnow.tv/videoshow/4431100.cms

The second report today shows the Civil Aviation Minister Ajit Singh strongly backing the deal. http://www.timesnow.tv/videoshow/4431134.cms

Quite obviously, Ajit Singh needs to have his position strong. If his pushed deal gets cancelled, he is shown to be weak. Also we must keep in mind, he needs to build his election war chest and of his party.
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flybhx764
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:29 pm

Certain countries to the UK will have to pay a £3000 security bond deposit to travel to the UK for a 6 month visa. If you overstay or don't come back you will not get it back. The countries include India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nigeria and a few other African countries.

This is going to affect Airlines. Airlines like Air India who have are starting BHX 4 times a week and we looking into a northern airport like Glasgow or Edinburgh for a 3 times a week service to Delhi have said it will affect business which means they will have to cut capacity to the UK as this fee is per person and not per family. They are looking to charge £5000 for a 2 year visa deposit. This is a good idea for the government to stop the over stay situation but will affect Air travel to the specific countires.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/fo...00-pounds-cash-bond-deposit-383041

http://articles.economictimes.indiat...1857_1_visa-rules-british-visas-uk
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:39 am

Quoting flybhx764 (Reply 4):
This is a good idea for the government to stop the over stay situation but will affect Air travel to the specific countires.

This is going to hurt the genuine tourists and visitors the most. Those who go on holidays or for VFR will not do so. This wil impact a bit on tourism figures as a lot if Indians do vacation in UK.

On the other hand, for those who intend to overstay and abscond and become illegals, £3000 will not be a detterent. Infact it will be a small price as compared to the tens of thousands they pay to trickster agents now by selling their lands/houses.

I think the process should be on case by case basis. The visa issuing authorities should levy a deposit after interviewing candidates for visas. Or allow travellers to authorise this deposit on credit cards or as a bank guarantee. This will free up cash for the intended travel....
 
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:20 am

Appears that the India Abu Dhabi bilateral air services agreement is a quid-pro-quo for overall UAE investment in India. http://www.livemint.com/Politics/hT4...-concerns-on-Indian-investmen.html
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Nimish
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:44 am

From: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...-in-india/articleshow/20902050.cms

Quote:
AirAsia boss Tony Fernandes targets Naresh Goyal, Subramanian Swamy and unfair aviation rules in India

India's aviation sector and its business environment got a rude reality check on July 3, this time from AirAsia boss Tony Fernandes, the latest suitor for a piece of the country's skies.

Fernandes, whose Malaysian group plans to launch an airline in India later this year, launched a blistering attack on restrictive Indian aviation rules and blamed Jet Airways boss Naresh Goyal for some of them, in a rare display of candour that covered everyone from partners to rivals to authorities.

Referring to a rule that prevents local airlines from flying abroad until they complete five years of operations and own 20 aircraft, Fernandes said: "That's probably put in by Naresh (Goyal) or someone else to protect themselves."

When his comments, made at a packed news conference in Delhi to discuss his low-cost airline's proposed launch in October, drew guffaws, he rubbed it in: "You are laughing, so I am right."

In this context, I saw this interesting article on Bangalore aviation today:

From: http://www.bangaloreaviation.com/201...-interests-shaping-government.html

Quote:
Fernandes' outburst is understandably, also vested. After all, he is responsible to the shareholders of his business for delivering results. One way for his new venture AirAsia India to quickly grow, would be to operate internationally. Today AirAsia cannot carry passengers all the way from south east Asia to the middle-east on its narrow body A320s, since the distance it too great. At the same time. some of the routes would not have enough traffic to fill the wide-body A330s of AirAsia X. But if AirAsia India flies overseas, it can be fed by its sisters AirAsia, and Thai AirAsia who would bring passengers to the Indian hubs and transfer them on their Indian sister along with Indian passengers for the onward journey to the middle-east. Is this a case of the pot calling the kettle black? Or is Tony Fernandes genuinely interested in universal change to fair play rules?

Personally my take is that Tony's complaining less about the 5 year rule, but more about the mess that the Indian aviation industry is. Airports are too expensive. Fuel is priced sky high. He's actually thinking of avoiding the biggest two markets completely due to the sky high charges. I don't think he needs a large fleet of 320s just to serve BLR, MAA and COK (with perhaps some airports in AP thrown in). And the whole thought of a "low cost airport" is a complete misnomer with the govt. happy to sit back and soak up 46% of the revenues of an airport without lifting their fingers. Where does this leave aviation in India? How can Tony replicate his Malaysian successes here? Can Tony replicate his Malaysian successes here?
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BLRAviation
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:07 pm

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 5):
This is going to hurt the genuine tourists and visitors the most. Those who go on holidays or for VFR will not do so. This wil impact a bit on tourism figures as a lot if Indians do vacation in UK.

So true. But then, the British authorities are seemingly banking on the fact that many Indians already live in the UK and therefore their relatives will come to the UK for holidays naturally.

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 5):
On the other hand, for those who intend to overstay and abscond and become illegals, £3000 will not be a detterent. Infact it will be a small price as compared to the tens of thousands they pay to trickster agents now by selling their lands/houses.

Now I understand where India was taught how to make ineffective and ill-thought legislation
     
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HAWK21M
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:48 pm

Tony's going to find it tough in the current Indian scenario.....I heard major mx is going to be carried out by Airworks India.
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Nimish
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:49 am

In context of the horrific OZ 772 crash at SFO - I noticed there were 3 Indian pax on that plane. Anyone know if they were connecting from DEL/BOM? Or SFO based traffic to/from ICN?
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dtw2hyd
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:50 pm

What is the current status of IPG? Is it recognized by AI. It appears even ICPA was de-recognized and recognized by AI in the past. Couldn't find any info on current status.
 
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:55 pm

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 6):
Appears that the India Abu Dhabi bilateral air services agreement is a quid-pro-quo for overall UAE investment in India. http://www.livemint.com/Politics/hT4...-concerns-on-Indian-investmen.html

I'm not surprised. Who wants to invest unless more trade will happen? That is normal. Actually, what is normal is more open bilaterals that naturally enable trade and investment.
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Vimanav
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:59 pm

Reading Tony Fernandes' interviews and all the noises he's making about AirAsia India, am I the only one who feels he's either stating the obvious or talking a fair bit of rubbish?

For instance, we do not need him to come and tell us that the 5 year, 20 aircraft rule for international routes is stupid, we do not need him to remind us that Naresh Goyal is indeed super-croc and his appointment of senior executives for AirAsia India have been anything but awe inspiring. Claims that he'd crack break even at sub 60% SLF flying A320s on non-metro routes also appears overly optimistic to say the least.

So why would a canny airline CEO like Tony - who's been there, done it, antagonize the Government, the competition and paint a big bulls-eye on his backside unless he wants to kiss it Tata !!!!

Am I missing something?

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777way
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:08 pm

 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:57 pm

Quoting Vimanav (Reply 13):
Claims that he'd crack break even at sub 60% SLF flying A320s on non-metro routes also appears overly optimistic to say the least.

Wonder how these statements by tony will convince those that do not want to be convinced
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VTORD
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:32 am

I think Tony is cannily generating a lot of buzz for his airline. He's already got the government to bend the FDI policy on start up airlines and at least one website is reporting that the GoI is re-considering the 5yr/20 ac rule......I think Ratan Tata has a lot of pull in New Delhi so Tony might not really be antagonizing the government. And there is no such thing as bad publicity.

As far as his explanation for choice of CEO - that was a bit baffling, since he has not worked in India or aviation and I believe I remember reading Tony's comments that "he is Indian so he is a perfect choice".
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777way
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:01 pm

Ukraine international consider launching DEL service with their first 767-300.

[Edited 2013-07-12 09:10:17]
 
JOYA380B747
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:58 pm

The first E190 for Air Costa has been delivered,

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-C...d=d6d9f693f89772a8144b9c9c1fdcaa29

Must I say that's the first trendy paint on any Indian airline, way to go.   
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
 
777way
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:03 pm

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 18):

is it? I think spice, indigo, paramount, indian, deccan 360, AI express, go air all met that standard looks wise, and this is inspired by Argentinas basic livery.
 
JOYA380B747
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:13 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 19):
I think spice, indigo, paramount, indian, deccan 360, AI express, go air all met that standard looks wise, and this is inspired by Argentinas basic livery.

Most Indian airlines have the boring Euro-ish white fuselage, while on a totally personal analogy, the Air Costa livery gets a dash of paint across. Just my      
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
 
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:34 am

Will this proposal ever see light of day? If yes, is ir justified?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...ice-bands/articleshow/21062206.cms

Quote:
Declaring "shock and awe" low fares alone will not suffice for airlines. They may soon have to disclose how many seats were actually sold at various price levels, including the jaw-dropping low ones.

The aviation ministry is set to form an economic cell that will collect this information from airlines and make it public. "If an airline says it is going to sell tickets for Rs 2,000 or Rs 3,000, people should also know many tickets did it actually sell for that money. The new cell is going to be activated in two weeks and will get all this data from airlines. We will make public how many seats were sold at various price levels," aviation minister Ajit Singh told TOI.

 
CaliAtenza
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:35 am

any news on any new routes to and from India?
 
ojas
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:48 am

Quoting Vimanav (Reply 13):
For instance, we do not need him to come and tell us that the 5 year, 20 aircraft rule for international routes is stupid, we do not need him to remind us that Naresh Goyal is indeed super-croc and his appointment of senior executives for AirAsia India have been anything but awe inspiring. Claims that he'd crack break even at sub 60% SLF flying A320s on non-metro routes also appears overly optimistic to say the least.

So why would a canny airline CEO like Tony - who's been there, done it, antagonize the Government, the competition and paint a big bulls-eye on his backside unless he wants to kiss it Tata !!!!

Agreed.

His fat claims on television to start a PNQ - KUL on A333 and all that bullshit only proceeded with the fact that they flopped miserably at BOM, DEL.

Regarding Air Asia India, either he is too naive or he is overconfident. Let him start and then he will shit bricks when he knows what it is to operate in a pathetically policy crippled skies like India.
Great leaders don't tell you what to do ... they show you how it's done!
 
LJ
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:14 am

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 21):
Will this proposal ever see light of day? If yes, is ir justified?

It may be justified if airlines only have to disclose how many they sold on the lowest advertised fare. It can't be jsutified if they have to do it for all fare classes (and thus basically release the yield per city pair on any given flight.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:16 pm

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 22):
any news on any new routes to and from India?

Hoping for an AI 787 to YYZ non-stop from India.....it would be from DEL obviously, but hoping AI can provide convenient connections to BOM and other cities.....
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:43 pm

Quoting Gr8circle (Reply 25):

Hoping for an AI 787 to YYZ non-stop from India.....it would be from DEL obviously, but hoping AI can provide convenient connections to BOM and other cities.....

ah okay, yeah that would be nice actually. I hope TK expands in India....would love to have them as an option to where i need to be in India (BLR).
 
777way
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:00 pm

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 22):

Malindo and Malaysia Airlines launching new destinations there, Air Asia also interested in one.
 
BLRAviation
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:28 pm

http://businesstoday.intoday.in/stor...market-share-profits/1/196926.html

Quote:
Air India cannot focus on market share at cost of profitability, says Nandan

And just a few days back there were news reports, AI was cutting fares to face competition.

http://www.business-standard.com/art...rom-jet-etihad-113062500039_1.html

[Edited 2013-07-16 10:31:08]
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BLRAviation
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:32 pm

Interesting story about how the politically savvy Naresh Goyal is getting check-mated by his rivals http://businesstoday.intoday.in/stor...ys-at-the-lobby-game/1/196680.html
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747megatop
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BLR - KHG And DEL - PEK Flight Paths

Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:39 pm

1) DEL - PEK

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/C...7/history/20130713/1250Z/ZBAA/VIDP

why is the flight path following a dog's leg detour?

a) Is this detour in fact due to the himalayas?
b) How much additional flying time is incurred due to the detour?


2) BLR - HKG

There is another flight path BLR - HKG which seems to do a dogs leg, seemingly trying to take a detour; i can't figure out why though.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/H...2/history/20130715/1440Z/VHHH/VOBL

If you notice all previous flights, all of them follow this weird flight path. So, it's not that the flight on a particular day is routed like that due to prevailing winds...at least it does not seem that way. So, why the detour, any thoughts?

[Edited 2013-07-16 10:43:15]
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:55 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 30):
a) Is this detour in fact due to the himalayas?

Wasnt there a rule about only quads allowed to fly over Himalayas. All twins were required to do the dog leg. This is due to engine out situation, when a twin would have to lower altitude that will bring them in close vicinity of terrain given the 7000mts+ peaks....
Twins Over The Himalayas? (by Timz Jan 24 2005 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2013-07-16 21:04:22]
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:08 am

http://www.bangaloreaviation.com/201...sis-emboldened-by-etihad-deal.html

"Late last week, The Times of India reported Turkish Airlines, one of the world’s fastest growing airlines in the world, wanted to more than quintuple its Indian footprint, requesting an increase in weekly seat allocation from 4,000 to 20,000 seats per week, and gain access to Bangalore, Kolkata, Chennai, Hyderabad, Amritsar, and Ahmedabad."
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:37 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 32):
"Late last week, The Times of India reported Turkish Airlines, one of the world’s fastest growing airlines in the world, wanted to more than quintuple its Indian footprint, requesting an increase in weekly seat allocation from 4,000 to 20,000 seats per week, and gain access to Bangalore, Kolkata, Chennai, Hyderabad, Amritsar, and Ahmedabad."

Wow, talk about a huge expansion.

TK certainly are certainly being very agressive. Seems they have taken a page out of the EK playbook  
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:44 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 33):

Wow, talk about a huge expansion.

TK certainly are certainly being very agressive. Seems they have taken a page out of the EK playbook  

I welcome it, the more competition the better. Prices have gotten out of control lately and EK is one of the main culprits with regards to routes to India from the West Coast of the USA. I dont know if prices will go down when the A380 shows up at LAX in December, i would hope so though. No Etihad or Qatar to the West Coast as of yet either. I think TK can make a play here and undercut EK and the other Gulf Carriers at their own game. I hear great things about TK, would love to try them out to India.
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:42 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 34):
I think TK can make a play here and undercut EK and the other Gulf Carriers at their own game

Is TK's cost base that low? Can they realistically undercut any MEB3 at all?
 
BLRAviation
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:34 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 30):
2) BLR - HKG
There is another flight path BLR - HKG which seems to do a dogs leg, seemingly trying to take a detour; i can't figure out why though.

For the BLR-HKG segment the routing is correct. There are multiple air corridors traversing the Bay of Bengal over India in a South East to North West direction. To the best of my knowledge there is none air corridor traversing east-west. So the fix is Chennai and then a direct routing to the Andaman islands, from there towards southern Burma. That's the dog leg you are seeing.

From DEL-PEK it could be the Himalayas coupled with security concerns which prevents use of the Tibet or Ladakh regions. But that is a guess.  
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:02 am

Spicejet getting rid of Expat pilots as rising $ hits the bottom line....

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...ly-dollar/articleshow/21134272.cms

Quote:
Low cost carrier SpiceJet has brought down its number of expat pilots, all of whom are commanders, from over 100 a year ago to just 25 now. With an expat commander getting almost three times more than the average Indian commander's monthly pay of Rs 5 lakh, the airline is looking at saving Rs 90 crore per annum.
Quote:
Apart from lowering cost by phasing out expats, SpiceJet is also planning to start direct import of aviation turbine fuel (ATF) or jet fuel from next month.

What are the advantages of importing fuel directly? WHat taxes does an airline save and is there significant saving?
 
747megatop
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:50 am

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 36):
So the fix is Chennai and then a direct routing to the Andaman islands, from there towards southern Burma. That's the dog leg you are seeing.

Thanks for englightening me on that. That definitely explains it ; I knew that there was some good reason but did not know till now.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:30 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 34):
Prices have gotten out of control lately and EK is one of the main culprits with regards to routes to India from the West Coast of the USA.

I looked at fares 3 months out and they were back to normal ($1,535 LAX-AMD-LAX). There were outrageous a few months ago, but that seemed to be temporary insanity (breaking $6k for Y... I couldn't believe what the fare search engines were telling me! I know a wedding was delayed over those fares). Now, I imagine if one is looking to fly during EK's runway resurfacing, fares will be crazy. But with today's high oil prices, $1,535 USD is a bargain. The lowest I've ever seen were just over $1,200 dollars when *everyone* was selling at a loss and at lower oil prices.

Heck, fares three weeks out are under $2k with $1,700 fares available for 2-stop connections.

If fares ever remained high, competition would fill the void quickly. Heck, the 9W, EY investment would have gone through. Now it looks like the July 31st deadline will pass and EY will reduce their offer price. Cest la vie. Time=Money and the more a deal is delayed, the less it is worth.

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 32):
"Late last week, The Times of India reported Turkish Airlines, one of the world’s fastest growing airlines in the world, wanted to more than quintuple its Indian footprint, requesting an increase in weekly seat allocation from 4,000 to 20,000 seats per week, and gain access to Bangalore, Kolkata, Chennai, Hyderabad, Amritsar, and Ahmedabad."

TK would have no trouble filling the seats. The Mid East carriers aren't invincible. EK is the most numbers run, so that makes them seem tough to compete with. But TK has had a rapidly growing economy to work with. (I do not claim to know the status post the disturbances.)

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 35):
Is TK's cost base that low? Can they realistically undercut any MEB3 at all?

TK is based in a phenomenal location for minimizing costs for hubbing to Europe. All they need is the rights to India.

Lightsaber
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BLRAviation
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:11 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 34):
Prices have gotten out of control lately and EK is one of the main culprits with regards to routes to India from the West Coast of the USA.

SQ is having special fares from India to LAX/SFO right now. http://www.singaporeair.com/jsp/cms/en_UK/promotions/in-promos.jsp but for two passengers.
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CaliAtenza
Posts: 1635
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:43 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:51 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 39):
I looked at fares 3 months out and they were back to normal ($1,535 LAX-AMD-LAX). There were outrageous a few months ago, but that seemed to be temporary insanity (breaking $6k for Y... I couldn't believe what the fare search engines were telling me! I know a wedding was delayed over those fares). Now, I imagine if one is looking to fly during EK's runway resurfacing, fares will be crazy. But with today's high oil prices, $1,535 USD is a bargain. The lowest I've ever seen were just over $1,200 dollars when *everyone* was selling at a loss and at lower oil prices.

yeah 1535 seems alright. Yes they were pretty high a few months back, even just before the start of summer. But EK has been consistently high for a while now. The last two times i have travelled, i have used Cathay and Thai. Do you think with the A380 coming to LAX, EK fares will go down somewhat?
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 3415
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:52 pm

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 40):
SQ is having special fares from India to LAX/SFO right now.

I guess it is OZ214 focused marketing.
 
ojas
Posts: 1159
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:34 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 39):
TK would have no trouble filling the seats. The Mid East carriers aren't invincible. EK is the most numbers run, so that makes them seem tough to compete with. But TK has had a rapidly growing economy to work with. (I do not claim to know the status post the disturbances.)
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 39):
TK is based in a phenomenal location for minimizing costs for hubbing to Europe. All they need is the rights to India.

Your above statements does not apply to India.

Even if TK will be given rights, no way in hell can they make AMD, ATQ and CCU work. BLR, HYD, MAA; they will be fighting with European carriers. The reason? simply that the O-D from BLR, HYD and MAA to DXB, DOH and AUH is much higher than IST than any given day. Secondly, BLR/HYD/MAA - IST will be very long flights and will struggle on their narrow bodies to reach there and that a wide body will be too much capacity for TK to fill no matter how much they undercut the ME carriers.

In short, TK's expansion into India, won't affect the MEB3 that much for any of them to worry.
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747megatop
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:03 pm

Can any one help me understand why NRT/ICN is not connected non stop with South Indian destinations like MAA/BLR/HYD?

Is it lack of O/D traffic combined with the fact that there are not that many destinations beyond NRT/ICN that passengers can connect to?

If you take European cities for example; passengers from MAA/BLR/HYD can either terminate in LHR (large indian presence in and around LHR) OR from LHR/FRA/CDG passengers can connect on to North America (USA & Canada); South America or other European destinations. But, from ICN/NRT connecting passengers can connect only to NA(USA & Canada) without any significant O&D traffic being there between BLR/MAA/HYD and NRT/ICN.

Thoughts?
 
CaliAtenza
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Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:43 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:44 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 44):
Can any one help me understand why NRT/ICN is not connected non stop with South Indian destinations like MAA/BLR/HYD?

more than NRT, why isnt ICN connected to at least MAA. Samsung and Hyundai have their factories in and around Chennai, i dont know why Korean Air doesnt at least fly to MAA.
 
ojas
Posts: 1159
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:23 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:22 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 44):
Is it lack of O/D traffic combined with the fact that there are not that many destinations beyond NRT/ICN that passengers can connect to?

You just got your answer here.
Great leaders don't tell you what to do ... they show you how it's done!
 
747megatop
Posts: 1479
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 8:22 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:43 am

Quoting ojas (Reply 46):
You just got your answer here.

Will the 787 change that? Any possibility of that happening?
 
ojas
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:49 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 47):
Will the 787 change that? Any possibility of that happening?

Not in the near future.
Great leaders don't tell you what to do ... they show you how it's done!
 
BLRAviation
Topic Author
Posts: 496
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:19 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread Part 104

Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:39 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 44):
Can any one help me understand why NRT/ICN is not connected non stop with South Indian destinations like MAA/BLR/HYD?

I interviewed the JAL Chairman on this topic. Sorry but A.net rules prohibit me from posting a link. Please visit Bangalore Aviation and search for Masaru Onishi. Alternately, any a.net member can post the link

Quoting some relevant portions of the interview

Quote:
Onishi went on to say, with the growing investment of Japanese companies in India, particularly in the Delhi and Bangalore geographies, India is definitely on the radar screen of the airline, but the lack of high enough demand for India Japan O and D (origin and destination) traffic is making it difficult for airline to firm-up its plans for expanding services to India.

A similar situation exists on the ICN-MAA segment.

And yes, I did ask about the Trans-Pac Indo-US traffic.

Quote:
We we asked about JAL tapping in to the large India to US West Coast market, Onishi explained that JAL already had very high passenger load factors on its trans-Pacific flights, that too from high yield markets like Japan, which makes the airline uncompetitive in low yield markets like India.

I found Onishi very frank and open. Very unusual for a Japanese business leader. And, he knew what he was talking about, and go to the point immediately without sugar coating.
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