richiemo
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Alaska's 737-Combi

Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:44 pm

Was reviewing Alaska Air's fleet in their inflight magazine and noticed they have a 737 cargo/passenger combine jet. I never knew such a thing existed. I know there are 747-400 combines (KLM flies them.) But I'm curious, why on the 737 is the cargo hold up front? It's in the back on the 744M. I assume PAX have to enter from the rear of the aircraft. And it appears from the seat layout on Alaska's website that there is no access to the flight deck from the passenger cabin. Even in a post 9-11 environment, isn't that strange.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:16 pm

Boeing has offered new build 737 combis. It's not a popular plane, but a few have been built. Alaska converted 737-400s to combis to replace the 737-200s that were retired.

They are exclusively used within the state of Alaska and occasionally down to SEA.

Quoting richiemo (Thread starter):
But I'm curious, why on the 737 is the cargo hold up front?

Simply because the wing is to close to the tail on the 737 to fit a cargo door aft of the wing and still have adequate space to load the cargo. Narrowbodies typically have the main deck cargo door forward of the wing.

Yes passengers enter the airplane from the rear.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
alaska737
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:25 pm

737 Combis have been used since Wein Air Alaska began operating -200's in the 1980's. Alaska purchased them later and MarkAir had a couple as well.

Quoting richiemo (Thread starter):
And it appears from the seat layout on Alaska's website that there is no access to the flight deck from the passenger cabin. Even in a post 9-11 environment, isn't that strange.

It has to do with the size of the cargo container. The old containers that the -200 used were spaced so someone could get from the flight deck to the passenger cabin. Since you can't in the -400 an extra flight attendant is stationed up front.
 
rgreenftm
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:31 pm

The Combi (73Q) does a single SEA-ANC/ANC-SEA trip daily. Tthe SEA-ANC combin flight is the last flight of the day, IIRC, it leaves somewhere around 11:30pm. Everytime I've seen the combi its parked at the same gate # at the end of C concourse (C20 I want to say, but don't quote me).

From what I've seen the 73Q flies ANC-ADQ, ANC-OTZ-OME, ANC-BET, ANC-SCC & ANC-JNU-PSG-WRG-KTN, continuing on to SEA.

AS recently announced plans to use Q400s on ANC-ADQ, and I believe that means the combi will be pulled off that route. The combi's days are numbered, IIRC. With the AS fleet refresh announced a couple months back, nothing was ordered to address the aging 73Qs, other than to order an additional freighter.
 
alaska737
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:53 pm

Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 3):
From what I've seen the 73Q flies ANC-ADQ, ANC-OTZ-OME, ANC-BET, ANC-SCC & ANC-JNU-PSG-WRG-KTN, continuing on to SEA.

They fly everywhere in the state, just depends on passenger and cargo loads.

Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 3):
AS recently announced plans to use Q400s on ANC-ADQ, and I believe that means the combi will be pulled off that route. The combi's days are numbered, IIRC. With the AS fleet refresh announced a couple months back, nothing was ordered to address the aging 73Qs, other than to order an additional freighter.

The Kodiak Q400 flight is a winter only substitution for one of the two daily flights. There are currently no plans to replace the -400C's. They are some of the newer -400's in the fleet and Alaska isn't in that much of a hurry to replace the -400's.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:11 am

Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 3):
With the AS fleet refresh announced a couple months back, nothing was ordered to address the aging 73Qs, other than to order an additional freighter.

Two, actually. There's going to be a total of 3 dedicated freighters once all is said and done.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
atct
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:51 am

The Combi's do the following trips, some of these trips also have other 737's doing the same flights. Sometimes the combi flight is substituted with a non-combi aircraft. Some of these flights are seasonal and may not be daily.I think I got all the trips...

ASA41 ANC-BET
ASA43 ANC-BET
ASA45 ANC-BET
ASA47 ANC-ADQ
ASA50 ANC-SCC-BRW-ANC
ASA51 ANC-BRW-SCC-ANC
ASA55 ANC-FAI-SCC-BRW-ANC
ASA61 SEA-JNU-YAK-CDV-ANC
ASA64 ANC-JNU-PSG-WRG-KTN-SEA
ASA121 SEA-ANC
ASA151 ANC-OTZ-OME-ANC
ASA152 ANC-OME-OTZ-ANC
ASA153 ANC-OTZ-OME-ANC
ASA158 ANC-DLG
ASA162 ANC-ADK

Plus scheduled charter to Red Dog Mine (ANC-DGG)

I have been on 121 when it was a regular 737-400, so sometimes you'll get a sub. Oh well (Never been on a combi myself).

[Edited 2013-07-01 17:51:57]
Trikes are for kids!
 
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Stitch
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:56 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 1):
Boeing has offered new build 737 combis.

The 737-700C is actually a "convertible" - it can quickly be converted between an all-passenger or all-cargo configuration, bit it cannot cary a mix of both on the main deck. In earlier models, Boeing called this option "Quick Change".
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:56 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 1):
Boeing has offered new build 737 combis. It's not a popular plane, but a few have been built. Alaska converted 737-400s to combis to replace the 737-200s that were retired.

They are exclusively used within the state of Alaska and occasionally down to SEA.
Quoting alaska737 (Reply 2):
737 Combis have been used since Wein Air Alaska began operating -200's in the 1980's. Alaska purchased them later and MarkAir had a couple as well.
Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 3):
The Combi (73Q) does a single SEA-ANC/ANC-SEA trip daily. Tthe SEA-ANC combin flight is the last flight of the day, IIRC, it leaves somewhere around 11:30pm. Everytime I've seen the combi its parked at the same gate # at the end of C concourse (C20 I want to say, but don't quote me).

Boeing still offers the 737-700 Combi, which is the US Navy's C-40A.

There a couple of Canadian airlines that still fly the 737-200 Combis, namely First Air and Canadian North.

AS offers a milk-run flight using the 737-400 Combis, Seattle-Juneau-Yakutat-Cordova-Anchorage. On the way back, I believe it flies Anchorage-Juneau-Wrangell-Petersburg-Ketchikan-Seattle.
 
ykaops
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:42 am

Canadian North B737 @CDL7


A Canadian North B737-275ADV on the ice strip at Hope Bay, NU (Doris Lake - CDL7)
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:44 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
The 737-700C is actually a "convertible" - it can quickly be converted between an all-passenger or all-cargo configuration, bit it cannot cary a mix of both on the main deck. In earlier models, Boeing called this option "Quick Change".

That's not 100% true. The US Navy has used the C-40A in the mixed configuration before.
 
cargolex
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:08 am

Quoting richiemo (Thread starter):
I know there are 747-400 combines (KLM flies them.) But I'm curious, why on the 737 is the cargo hold up front?

That's where the cargo door is.

The 747 was, early on, designed with the side cargo door as an option (originally, the first 747-200F had only the nose door, but the side door was quickly added - at first optional, then standard) on the freighter, combi, and convertible models. The 747-300 and -400 did not offer the convertible option (it did not sell well), but did offer the combi option, with the side cargo door.

When you see a picture of a 747 Freighter, it will usually say something like "747-409F/SCD" - the SCD means "side cargo door."

Early on, conversions on pax 747s added the side cargo door.

The 737 is based on the same fuselage as the 707 and 727, and early on the forward cargo door was developed for those earlier models. In the days of the 707-300 and 727-100, there was a great need for quick-change aircraft, so combis and convertibles were fairly common and many came that way from the factory. The rise of the integrators - FedEx, Airborne, DHL, UPS - made much of that market, previously run by the major airlines, irrelevant, and so the demand for such aircraft declined greatly. Hardly any QC's were made after 1982, and only then usually because of the gravel-runway capabilities of the 737-200, which were attractive to operators which might still need a QC. Most of the 727 QC aircraft were quickly gobbled up by FedEx and UPS during the 1980s.

But always the cargo door was in front - and really, that's the only logical place it could go on a 737-200, and once designed there, it was easy to adapt to the later 737s. The only two which cannot be fitted with a cargo door are the 737-500 and 737-600 - the engines would block access.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 1):
Boeing has offered new build 737 combis. It's not a popular plane, but a few have been built. Alaska converted 737-400s to combis to replace the 737-200s that were retired.
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 8):

Boeing still offers the 737-700 Combi, which is the US Navy's C-40A.

Boeing does not offer a combi 737. They offer the 737-700QC. A new combi would require a hard partition between the cabins, among other things, and that isn't something the very few operators of this aircraft want. The aircraft can only be used in either/or mode - all freight or all pax.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 10):

That's not 100% true. The US Navy has used the C-40A in the mixed configuration before.

The C-40A is not a civil airliner and is not bound to the same operational standards as those in commercial service.
 
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dlednicer
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:03 am

The passenger cabin in the old 737-200 combis looked like this:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Deepak Subramony



I flew N745AS once from Anchorage to Seattle. As you enter and exit from the back door, we exited onto the ramp at Seatac, rather than into a jetway.
 
yeelep
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:13 am

Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 3):
Everytime I've seen the combi its parked at the same gate # at the end of C concourse (C20 I want to say, but don't quote me).

They park at C16A and sometimes C16.

Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 3):
With the AS fleet refresh announced a couple months back, nothing was ordered to address the aging 73Qs, other than to order an additional freighter.

Eventually all the the combi's and the freighter are going to be replaced by three converted -700F's.

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 4):
There are currently no plans to replace the -400C's. They are some of the newer -400's in the fleet and Alaska isn't in that much of a hurry to replace the -400's.

There are definitely plans to get rid of the -400C's. As to replacement of the -400's, it depends on your definition of hurry, I would be surprised if there were any -400's on property by 2019.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:20 am

Quoting yeelep (Reply 13):

Eventually all the the combi's and the freighter are going to be replaced by three converted -700F's.

A 737-700BCF. Wouldn't that be the first of its kind in commercial operation? When is this planned?

[Edited 2013-07-02 00:20:34]
 
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Kaphias
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:54 pm

I last flew the Combi in 2008 on a flight that ending up being ANC-PSG direct. We were scheduled to fly ANC-JNU, but flew a missed approach in JNU due to low clouds and high winds. Diverted to PSG, landed there in only slightly better conditions, and took the ferry back to Juneau overnight.
Flown on: C150/172/206, DHC-2/3, AS350, J32, Q400, CR7/9, E135/40/45/75, DC9, A320, B732/4/7/8/9, 744, 752/3, 763, MD80
 
B737900
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:56 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 8):
AS offers a milk-run flight using the 737-400 Combis, Seattle-Juneau-Yakutat-Cordova-Anchorage. On the way back, I believe it flies Anchorage-Juneau-Wrangell-Petersburg-Ketchikan-Seattle.

I've flown that "milk-run" several times: Flights 66 & 67. I love that flight, especially in bad weather! Oh yeah, let's not leave out Sitka.
If you all will allow me, I can use one word to describe the combi milk-run in the high season: FISH. At certain times of the year, fish hauling is a high profit cargo. You either get it to your destination or it spoils.

[Edited 2013-07-02 09:43:47]
Sounds like a Beaver on floats..........we're saved!!
 
olddominion727
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:35 pm

732Combi had a run PDX-SJC for about a year every Wednesday & Saturday. I am assuming it was for AK's state cargo. Not sure. Always confused me why it was coming in from OR. We also saw it Sunday and Thursday from SEA. Great option to see besides the MD80 and 72S...
 
heathrow
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:43 pm

I work on 5T's 732 combi's. They can be configured between 6 pallet (2 rows of seats) and 0 pallet (full seats). Usually they sit around 2 or 3 pallets, which are stored in the aft. Pax board by rear stairs.
 
flySFO
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:37 pm

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 2):
It has to do with the size of the cargo container. The old containers that the -200 used were spaced so someone could get from the flight deck to the passenger cabin. Since you can't in the -400 an extra flight attendant is stationed up front.

So there is one flight attendant that only attends to the pilots?
 
brucek
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:00 pm

Quoting flySFO (Reply 19):
So there is one flight attendant that only attends to the pilots?

That's what I recall rteading many years ago in an Airliners or Airways magazine. A 3rd? FA that can assist the flight crew if requried is my recollaction....
 
HAWAIIAN932
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:05 pm

I remember flying a 747-Combi from Copenhagen to LAX on SAS back in the late 70's or early 80's. Seemed funny seeing such a short Coach cabin. Actually, my coach seat was upstairs in the "pod". Kinda cool.
 
dc9northwest
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:27 pm

Quoting flySFO (Reply 19):
So there is one flight attendant that only attends to the pilots?

Yes. I just flew on an AS Combi a month and a half ago and the voice on the intercom was different from the voices of both F/As in the rear pax section.

They're definitely used on ANC-JNU-PSG-WRG-KTN-SEA and SEA-JNU-YAK-CDV-ANC and vice-versa. I believe they alternate with the regular 734s...

OP... There doesn't need to be access from the cabin to the flight deck. With the F/A stationed upfront, there certainly is a safety measure in place for the pilots.
 
jcded
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:33 pm

Took the Combi last Jan from SEA-JNU. It is their lifeline for perishable goods, mail and other cargo as Juneau is landlocked (I tried to escape and drove to the end of every road after the flights were cancelled due to a ice storm in SEA. No jet bridge as you use air stairs to the back. Nice flight, hardly notice the smaller cabin. Actually wish I was up there now.
You breathe to do good and have fun.
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:34 pm

Quoting flySFO (Reply 19):
So there is one flight attendant that only attends to the pilots?


That Flight Attendant is there only to help one of the Pilots in the event of incapacitation. That's it. Pretty cake job. They don't do anything really. Arm/disarm the doors and that's it. The pilots take care of themselves in so far as their food/beverage needs go.

Quoting B737900 (Reply 16):
I've flown that "milk-run" several times: Flights 66 & 67. I love that flight, especially in bad weather! Oh yeah, let's not leave out Sitka.

Sitka doesn't see combi service. Neither of the milk runs mentioned pass through Sitka. Flight 62 and 67 use a regular 737-400 and operate SEA-KTN-SIT-JNU-ANC and reverse but that's not a combi aircraft route.
 
alaska737
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:52 pm

Quoting yeelep (Reply 13):
Eventually all the the combi's and the freighter are going to be replaced by three converted -700F's.

But at the same time I've heard rumors of replacing the -400c with the -700c so I chose not to believe anything until it is actually announced.

Quoting yeelep (Reply 13):
There are definitely plans to get rid of the -400C's. As to replacement of the -400's, it depends on your definition of hurry, I would be surprised if there were any -400's on property by 2019.

I'm curious what you mean by 'Plans." Not only did an Alaskasworld article state recently that the -400C's would stay around for a while but I also recently talked to some people in managment who eluded the same thing. I know it's been a rumor for a while. I know that when the -400C replaced the -200QC they found that the -400C has a weight and balance issue and they werent as happy with it. I guess what I'm saying is that Alaska seems to have a lot of ideas and a lot of rumors but they either dont come true or they take a long time. Look at the Horizon to Alaska move. That rumor has been around since the 90's, finally happened in 2012.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:01 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 17):
732Combi had a run PDX-SJC for about a year every Wednesday & Saturday.

I didn't know that. I didn't realize the 737-200s ever went south of SEA in the more modern era. How late did they serve SJC?
 
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aal151heavy
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:07 pm

Alaska's combis always fascinated me. I have taken them three times - fun flights, great sightseeing of the Alaskan frontier plus friendly crew every time!


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ben Wang


My trip report:

To The Top Of America - Barrow In An Alaska Combi (by aal151heavy Aug 5 2012 in Trip Reports)
My airliners.net photos
 
roseflyer
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:23 pm

Quoting jcded (Reply 23):
Took the Combi last Jan from SEA-JNU. It is their lifeline for perishable goods, mail and other cargo as Juneau is landlocked (I tried to escape and drove to the end of every road after the flights were cancelled due to a ice storm in SEA.

That made me laugh. You didn't remember from high school geography that Juneau is landlocked and cannot be reached by road. It can only be reached by boat or plane. If you wanted to drive to Seattle, you'd have to take a ferry to Skagway or Haines. However the roads are so bad, freight has to come by air or boat since large trucks aren't an efficient transportation method.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:53 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 28):
Quoting jcded (Reply 23):
Took the Combi last Jan from SEA-JNU. It is their lifeline for perishable goods, mail and other cargo as Juneau is landlocked (I tried to escape and drove to the end of every road after the flights were cancelled due to a ice storm in SEA.

That made me laugh. You didn't remember from high school geography that Juneau is landlocked and cannot be reached by road. It can only be reached by boat or plane. If you wanted to drive to Seattle, you'd have to take a ferry to Skagway or Haines. However the roads are so bad, freight has to come by air or boat since large trucks aren't an efficient transportation method.

Isn't that exactly what the guy said? He stated JNU was landlocked and he could drive only to the end of each dead-end road from JNU. Sounds like jcded studied hard in his high school geography.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:55 pm

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 25):
But at the same time I've heard rumors of replacing the -400c with the -700c

The -400Cs are going to be history. They will be replaced by an additional 2 dedicated freighters (bringing the total to 3). One of the key focus areas for AS in the coming years is the "Hassle-Free" customer experience, and combis are always met with disappointment by MVPs and Golds since they lack a F/C cabin.

Trust me, they're gone. Not today, not tomorrow, but within the next few years. And the -700C is not going to replace them; freighters will.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
CO777DAL
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:25 pm

A few years ago I got to fly on a AK 737-400 Combi from ANC to FAI. I took video of the take-off and landing. It was odd to look forward and just see a solid bulk head wall. What really sucked was in FAI deplaning via Air Stairs to -30 degrees!!!!!!!! That was one hell of a shock coming from Texas.

ANC Alaska Airlines 737-400 Combi Take-Off Boeing Anchorage
http://youtu.be/zLoI7OV3EFE

FAI Alaska Airlines 737-400 Combi Landing Boeing Fairbanks
http://youtu.be/xV3g-wgWvNI
Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:41 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 8):
There a couple of Canadian airlines that still fly the 737-200 Combis, namely First Air and Canadian North.

There are still 17 737-200Cs registered in Canada with 6 operators - Canadian North, First Air, Air North, Air Inuit, plus charter carrier Nolinor and mining company Xstrata.
 
doug_or
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:49 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 29):
Isn't that exactly what the guy said? He stated JNU was landlocked and he could drive only to the end of each dead-end road from JNU. Sounds like jcded studied hard in his high school geography.

I always thought landlocked implied a place had no access to open water. Not sure JNU would qualify.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:54 pm

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 33):
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 29):
Isn't that exactly what the guy said? He stated JNU was landlocked and he could drive only to the end of each dead-end road from JNU. Sounds like jcded studied hard in his high school geography.

I always thought landlocked implied a place had no access to open water. Not sure JNU would qualify.

Regardless of whether it's the correct term, I think he meant that no roads directly connect JNU to the outside world. They are all dead ends.

To my understanding, the FAA no longer allows Convertible Combis with the moving barrier. I think that's it due to smoke penetration regulations.

When does the last pax 737-400 leave AS's fleet? Aren't they going to keep the 737-700s that they own? I've heard mixed information on A.net about that.
 
m404
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:56 am

I'd flown several times on Wien's combi on multiple segments. It seemed that every time we came through Fairbanks which was their HQ pax would all deplane. When reboarding it could get confusing because the front bulkhead had been moved either way to accomodate cargo. Needless to say your seat can change. Never knew till this thread that Alaska was still flying one. That cabin can get pretty small.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
cargolex
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:58 am

Quoting m404 (Reply 35):
Never knew till this thread that Alaska was still flying one. That cabin can get pretty small.

The barriers are now fixed (now required by law), so the cabin configuration never changes.
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:26 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 26):
I didn't know that. I didn't realize the 737-200s ever went south of SEA in the more modern era. How late did they serve SJC?

Actually, right up until they stopped using the 737-200's, they were occasionally used south of Seattle. During the summer they were scheduled in a full passenger configuration between SEA - SJC and PSP. Passengers never seemed to know what to make of them. There was no First Class and the overhead bins were really old school - no roll aboard bags were allowed in the cabin because they simply wouldn't fit in the overhead - plain and simple. It was kind of nice for the FA's but the passengers hated that aspect of them.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:00 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 34):

When does the last pax 737-400 leave AS's fleet? Aren't they going to keep the 737-700s that they own?

I've heard 2017 and I've heard 2019, but no final word on it yet. The 73Gs are all going away though. The long-term fleet plan is 737-800, -900, -900ER, MAX8 and MAX9.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:58 pm

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 37):
Actually, right up until they stopped using the 737-200's, they were occasionally used south of Seattle. During the summer they were scheduled in a full passenger configuration between SEA - SJC and PSP

Hmmm, I've flown AS to SJC 2-4 times a year for the past 20 years and have never seen or heard of an AS 737-200 there. Any pix? Maybe Tom can confirm this.
 
hatbutton
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:39 am

RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:21 pm

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 25):
I'm curious what you mean by 'Plans." Not only did an Alaskasworld article state recently that the -400C's would stay around for a while but I also recently talked to some people in managment who eluded the same thing. I know it's been a rumor for a while. I know that when the -400C replaced the -200QC they found that the -400C has a weight and balance issue and they werent as happy with it. I guess what I'm saying is that Alaska seems to have a lot of ideas and a lot of rumors but they either dont come true or they take a long time. Look at the Horizon to Alaska move. That rumor has been around since the 90's, finally happened in 2012.

I definitely know what you're saying and why you feel that way, but I think there's a huge difference between a rumor that was started because it seemed like an obvious evolution (QX in Alaska), vs a rumor that was started because somebody actually started doing the analysis behind the scenes. Sure, plenty of people have been talking about QX flying in Alaska for years and years. But it wasn't until recently that anyone behind the scenes actually did the analysis to determine if it really was the right decision. So you can claim it's been a rumor forever but it was rumor purely based on speculation rather than anything concrete that came from the management team. Ideas are floated all the time by people in the company, but only a few of them are actually vetted and considered as legitimate strategies.

The 700F option is something that has actually been studied and vetted. So it's not just a rumor. But there currently are no 700F converted freighter options out in the market and AS will have to ask companies to bid on doing a totally new conversion process similar to when they created the 400C and F. There's a lot of engineering loopholes and FAA approvals to get past before it's a certainty. So yes, there has been no 100% actual decision made only due to the fact that no ink has graced any contract to do a 700 conversion. The 3 700F scenario is the desired solution to the retirement of the combis, but nothing has been officially announced because of all the reasons I just mentioned. That said, the plan could change should there be any roadblocks out of the airline's control.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1308
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:28 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 39):
Hmmm, I've flown AS to SJC 2-4 times a year for the past 20 years and have never seen or heard of an AS 737-200 there. Any pix? Maybe Tom can confirm this.

I don't have any pics but I definitely worked on them.
 
YYCSpotter
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:03 pm

RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:20 pm

Could a 73G combi possibly work? If they could fit the aircraft with a gravel kit, then that would be a modern replacement for Alaska's 734 combis, and all of the Canadian 732 combis. While the demand for such an aircraft is not exactly high, Neither was the demand for the 764, and I think that, even as a retrofit, a 73G combi could work.
I
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19287
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:11 pm

Quoting YYCSpotter (Reply 42):
Could a 73G combi possibly work? If they could fit the aircraft with a gravel kit, then that would be a modern replacement for Alaska's 734 combis, and all of the Canadian 732 combis. While the demand for such an aircraft is not exactly high, Neither was the demand for the 764, and I think that, even as a retrofit, a 73G combi could work.

737s since the -300 haven't been suitable for use on unpaved runways due to the much greater risk of ingesting debris. Also, Alaska no longer needs the gravel kit. If memory correct, the last gravel runways on which the AS 732 combis were used were paved quite a while before the aircraft were retired.
 
b747400erf
Posts: 2367
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:22 pm

Does Ameristar still fly the 737-200C in America? Or was that type retired?
 
YYCSpotter
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:03 pm

RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:12 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 43):
Also, Alaska no longer needs the gravel kit

Yes, but several airlines, Namely Canadian North, Still do.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 43):
737s since the -300 haven't been suitable for use on unpaved runways due to the much greater risk of ingesting debris.

With the developing of a 737NG Combi, I am sure that a new type of gravel kit would be developed. Do you think that more telescopic main gear, a la concorde, could raise the aircraft enough to make the current gravel kit technology viable?
I
 
cargolex
Posts: 1202
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:20 pm

RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:58 am

Quoting YYCSpotter (Reply 45):
With the developing of a 737NG Combi,

Nobody is developing that, and the speculation in this thread revolves around freighters, not combis.

Quoting YYCSpotter (Reply 45):
I am sure that a new type of gravel kit would be developed. Do you think that more telescopic main gear, a la concorde, could raise the aircraft enough to make the current gravel kit technology viable?

That absolutely will not happen.

The 737 Classic and NG can't be modified into gravel friendly airplanes, there's just no way. If there were a way to easily and feasibly raise the plane, the 737 would have engines with fans the size of the A320.
 
yeelep
Posts: 730
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:53 pm

RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:16 pm

Never know what may be on the other side of the door. Ready to go in Seattle.

Being installed in Sitka.
 
cschleic
Posts: 1241
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:27 pm

Quoting yeelep (Reply 47):
Never know what may be on the other side of the door. Ready to go in Seattle.

Wow. If the second photo weren't there, I'd think the cabin shot was photoshopped.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 3736
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

RE: Alaska's 737-Combi

Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:32 pm

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 11):
The C-40A is not a civil airliner and is not bound to the same operational standards as those in commercial service.

Hence, my point. There are NO commercial customers for the 737-700QC. The US Navy is the only customer that has purchased the model. They indeed operate that airplane in a mixed configuration.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 39):
Hmmm, I've flown AS to SJC 2-4 times a year for the past 20 years and have never seen or heard of an AS 737-200 there. Any pix? Maybe Tom can confirm this.
Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 37):
Actually, right up until they stopped using the 737-200's, they were occasionally used south of Seattle. During the summer they were scheduled in a full passenger configuration between SEA - SJC and PSP. Passengers never seemed to know what to make of them. There was no First Class and the overhead bins were really old school - no roll aboard bags were allowed in the cabin because they simply wouldn't fit in the overhead - plain and simple. It was kind of nice for the FA's but the passengers hated that aspect of them.
Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 41):
I don't have any pics but I definitely worked on them.

It had been quite a long time since I had seen AS 737-200's south of SEA, but they flew quite frequently to SJC and OAK, with continuing service to ONT and PSP. I flew one OAK-PDX-SEA back in 1990. I have photo prints of the 737-200's in the Bay Area. They were in full Economy configuration.

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