PSU.DTW.SCE
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DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:07 pm

There are a number of "interesting" equipment and frequency changes that are tenatively scheduled throughout the remainder of the year on DL's TPAC network. Some of these have already been known or discussed, but there are few apparently new ones in here too.

DTW-NRT:
now - 8/18: daily 744
8/19 - 10/26: daily, alternates between 77E and 744 every other day
10/27 - beyond: daily 77E

LAX-NRT:
now - 10/26: daily 77L
10/27 - beyond: daily, alternates between 77L and 744 every other day

SEA-NRT:
now - 8/18: daily 744
8/19 - 9/2: daily, alternates between 76W and 744 every other day
9/3 - 9/16: daily 76W
9/17 - 10/26: daily, alternates between 76W and 77E every other day (occasional 77L)
10/27 - beyond: daily 744

MSP-NRT:
now - 8/18: daily 77L
8/19 - 9/17: daily, alternates between 77E and 77L every other day
9/18 - beyond: daily, 77L

DTW-ICN:
now - 8/18: daily 77E
8/19 - beyond: daily 744

DTW-NGO:
now - 10/1: daily 744
10/2 - beyond: 5x weekly 744

NGO-MNL:
now - 10/1: daily 744
10/2 - beyond: 5x weekly 744

HNL-KIX:
now - 10/26: daily 744
10/27 - beyond: daily 333

HNL-NRT:
now - 7/26: 2x per day - daily 744 & daily 76W
7/27 - 8/18: 3x per day - 2 daily 744s, & 1 daily 76W
8/19 - 9/2: 2-3x per day - 2 daily 744s & 3x per week 76W
9/3 - 10/1: 2x per day - 1 daily 744 + 3x per week 744 + 4x per week 76W
10/2 - 10/26: 2x per day - 1 daily 76W + 3x per week 744 + 4x per week 76W
10/27 - beyond: 3x per day - 1 daily 744, 1 daily 333, 1 daily 76W

NRT-BKK:
now - 8/18: daily 744
8/19 - 10/1: daily, alternates between 77E and 744 every other day
10/2 - 10/26: daily, alternates between 76W and 77E every other day
10/27 - beyond: daily 744

NRT-TPE:
now - 8/18: daily 744
8/19 - 9/2: daily, alternates between 76W and 744 every other day
9/3 - 9/17: daily 744
9/18 - 10/1: daily, alternates between 76W and 744 every other day
10/2 - beyond: daily 744
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:47 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
8/19 - 9/2: daily, alternates between 76W and 744 every other day
9/3 - 9/16: daily 76W

Is this correct? DL has never flown a 767 SEA-NRT. Obviously NW didn't.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:09 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):
Is this correct? DL has never flown a 767 SEA-NRT. Obviously NW didn't.

Per what is currently loaded in the electronic timetable, yes.

I don't believe DL has flown the 767 on SEA-NRT before, although all of the others SEA-KIX/HND/PVG/PEK is all 76W.
Same thing that I don't believe DL has ever flown the 777 on SEA-NRT before either. It was 747 with NW before going A330.

DTW-NRT with a 777 is a first too, as is DTW-ICN with a 744.

LAX-NRT hasn't seen a scheduled 744 in a few years.
 
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:39 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):
Same thing that I don't believe DL has ever flown the 777 on SEA-NRT before either. It was 747 with NW before going A330.

Agreed. It was actually an old beater 747-200 before the A330. I'm not aware that NW had previously scheduled the 747-400 SEA-NRT. Do remember seeing the LAX flight as a -400 at NRT several years ago.

Is HND siphoning off some NRT traffic, or is NH siphoning off some DL traffic SEA-NRT?
 
davescj
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:42 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
HNL-NRT:
now - 7/26: 2x per day - daily 744 & daily 76W
7/27 - 8/18: 3x per day - 2 daily 744s, & 1 daily 76W
8/19 - 9/2: 2-3x per day - 2 daily 744s & 3x per week 76W
9/3 - 10/1: 2x per day - 1 daily 744 + 3x per week 744 + 4x per week 76W
10/2 - 10/26: 2x per day - 1 daily 76W + 3x per week 744 + 4x per week 76W
10/27 - beyond: 3x per day - 1 daily 744, 1 daily 333, 1 daily 76W

Seems like a lot of 744 metal between HNL - NRT. Is this season up gage ? I was surprised to see 2 744s7/27 - 9/2.

Did DL always support this much traffic? Or is something else happening during this time that is unusual?

Dave
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cargolex
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:48 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
now - 8/18: daily 744
8/19 - 9/2: daily, alternates between 76W and 744 every other day
9/3 - 9/16: daily 76W
9/17 - 10/26: daily, alternates between 76W and 77E every other day (occasional 77L)
10/27 - beyond: daily 744

So many changes in such a short timeframe - might this be due to maintenance schedules? (Just a guess).

It'll be nice to have a chance to catch a DL 777 at SEA, that's a pretty rare sight.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:49 pm

I believe August is a peak holiday / vacation period in Japan.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:01 pm

For what its worth, DL yesterday reported the weak Yen again hurt its Pacific unit-revenues.

I'm sure some shuffling will occur to mitigate the continued weakness of Japan point of sale traffic which is large chunk of the Pacific network.
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n7371f
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:52 pm

Seems like a lot of tarmac, park time for the 744 fleet in a few months.
 
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:56 pm

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 5):

It'll be nice to have a chance to catch a DL 777 at SEA, that's a pretty rare sight.


However, the service delivery may be slower than anticipated. Many of the flight attendants will be unfamiliar with the 777, or never have worked it, and service delivery might be impacted slightly.
 
airtechy
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:59 pm

I'm just glad that the NRT to BKK flight seems to be heading toward a 747. That flight is always packed and there are few alternates.

AT
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:07 pm

Quoting n7371f (Reply 8):
Seems like a lot of tarmac, park time for the 744 fleet in a few months.

Not so sure its really much different, or is it?

The question was how were they going to be able to fly DTW-ICN with the 744, but it appears they are able to do so by alternating out the 744 on SEA-NRT and DTW-NRT starting in mid-August.

For Nov it looks like:
ATL-NRT
JFK-NRT
JFK-TLV
DTW-ICN
DTW-NGO (5x per week)
SEA-NRT
LAX-NRT (every other day)
HNL-NRT
NRT-BKK
NRT-TPE
NRT-MNL

Not really much different than what they've been flying them before, as DTW-ICN 744 flying really takes the place of DTW-NRT.

Quoting Prost (Reply 9):
However, the service delivery may be slower than anticipated. Many of the flight attendants will be unfamiliar with the 777, or never have worked it, and service delivery might be impacted slightly.

It all depends which base covers this flight, it very easily may not be SEA. Plus, who knows how many have already flown on the 777 before. I would venture it will be very minor if anything, certainly nothing to prevent them from operating the route.
 
wingnutmn
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:27 pm

When is the busy travel season to South America? And do they up gauge any flights to 747's?

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MIflyer12
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:43 pm

Thanks for the detail PSU.DTW.SCE. That seems to be a whole lot of type shuffling for some fairly small net changes for late October:

DTW has a little less capacity to NRT and more to ICN.

It will be good to see 744s - even intermittantly - on LAX NRT.

DTW-NGO gets set up for 5x rather than daily service in the winter. (Was that the case last winter, too?)

There's a little less Hawaii-Japan service, consistent with remarks on slowing demand and currency issues.

I don't see the rumored big strategic shifts to overfly Narita or to build lots of LAX/SEA- Asia capacity (beyond what's already in place). Do I oversimplify this?
 
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:53 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 13):
There's a little less Hawaii-Japan service, consistent with remarks on slowing demand and currency issues.

What is the potential for ICN-HNL service? Also wonder about OGG.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:03 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
What is the potential for ICN-HNL service?

HA recently began the route. Also DL does not have the even close to the scale of sales network it has in Japan where its deeply in bed with the large tour operators to help fill its beach market flights.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
Also wonder about OGG.

OGG runway is too short. You are not going to make OGG-Asia. Anyhow, I dont think OGG has FIS either as its not listed as a commercial port of entry.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:04 pm

Quoting wingnutmn (Reply 12):
When is the busy travel season to South America? And do they up gauge any flights to 747's?

North American winter months.

Historically, DL has not upgauged anything with the 744 to South America. DL has expressed a desire to operate the 744 on ATL-GRU but the slots they held did not enable them to fly that large of an aircraft. I do not know if the new/expanded slot allocation now allows them to fly the 744 or if they truly believe the demand is there to upgauge from the 764.

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 13):
DTW-NGO gets set up for 5x rather than daily service in the winter. (Was that the case last winter, too?)

It has been typical for this route to operate less than daily during the winter and during the economic downturn.

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 13):
There's a little less Hawaii-Japan service, consistent with remarks on slowing demand and currency issues.

That, and the fall is typically the slowest travel period of the year for Hawaii. DL still ramps up capacity during peak periods but is pulling back more so during slower demand periods.

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 13):
I don't see the rumored big strategic shifts to overfly Narita or to build lots of LAX/SEA- Asia capacity (beyond what's already in place). Do I oversimplify this?

Nothing is going to happen that quick, nor is it going to happen all at once. However, post-merger we have seen DL slowly but steadily add overflying first to DTW and then next to SEA. 1-2 new flights per year is about all that DL can digest without adding too much capacity too quickly. Its too early at this point, but I would expect DL to add another new overflight from LAX, SEA, JFK, or possibly the long rumored MSP-ICN for Summer 2014.
 
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:46 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
MSP-NRT:
now - 8/18: daily 77L
8/19 - 9/17: daily, alternates between 77E and 77L every other day
9/18 - beyond: daily, 77L

Aww darn. When I saw this thread, I thought for a fleeting moment there was a chance we might see the 747 in MSP again. Oh, the good old days  
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:03 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
HA recently began the route. Also DL does not have the even close to the scale of sales network it has in Japan where its deeply in bed with the large tour operators to help fill its beach market flights.

Is there even that big of a market to Hawaii from ICN, in comparsion to NRT/Japan?

The short answer is no, not going to happen.

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 17):

Aww darn. When I saw this thread, I thought for a fleeting moment there was a chance we might see the 747 in MSP again. Oh, the good old days

Not going to happen at least for now. I think its also pretty significant that now DTW-NRT will operate with something other than a 747 since it was launched around 25 years ago.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:45 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 18):
Is there even that big of a market to Hawaii from ICN, in comparsion to NRT/Japan?

The short answer is no, not going to happen.

For comparative size of the countries - yes.

With Korea entering visa-waiver program the demand for US travel has increased significantly (+39.6% in 2012).

In the long run, future of Hawaii tourism is going to be tied more to markets like China and Korea than Japan a rather stagnant and now more recently declining market due to the Yen.
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:54 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):

Likely more ICN capacity will come from the mainland.
Capacity on JFK/ATL/LAX/SEA-ICN or new flights on MSP-ICN.

IMO 767s to LA and SEA would be my bet. (in addition to KE capacity.)
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PHX787
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:04 am

That HNL major up gauge seems to coincide with the Japanese Obon travel season. I too am traveling during this period.
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laca773
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:03 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 20):
Likely more ICN capacity will come from the mainland.
Capacity on JFK/ATL/LAX/SEA-ICN or new flights on MSP-ICN.

IMO 767s to LA and SEA would be my bet. (in addition to KE capacity.)

KE has the LAX-ICN market well covered:
Up to 3x daily
A388-daily
744- daily redeye
77E/77W daily redeye.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:51 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 20):
IMO 767s to LA and SEA would be my bet. (in addition to KE capacity.)
Quoting laca773 (Reply 22):

KE has the LAX-ICN market well covered:
Up to 3x daily
A388-daily
744- daily redeye
77E/77W daily redeye.

Would a 767 even have the range? A 332 seems more plausible.

The absence of a ATI'd JV between KE and DL leaves DL a lot more likely to compete on LAX-ICN, I believe.
 
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:21 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):
DTW-NRT with a 777 is a first too, as is DTW-ICN with a 744.

Northwest flew DTW-Seoul with the 747 before the merger, and before ICN opened. I think DTW-Seoul Kimpo was discontinued in 1997/98, after the Asian economic crisis.
 
workhorse
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:21 am

What about PVG? I have definitely seen a 744 on PVG-NRT recently.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:01 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
Also wonder about OGG.

OGG runway is too short. You are not going to make OGG-Asia. Anyhow, I dont think OGG has FIS either as its not listed as a commercial port of entry.

KOA has a long enough runway and FIS facilities. I think JL went in there until recently, and it seems like another Asian carrier also did so.
 
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:25 am

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 23):
Would a 767 even have the range?

IT would be close but should be doable with a wingleted 767. (It would have to be a 76T....12 hour bird....which all have winglets)
but LAX-HND is about 400nm shorter and isn't even run with a 76T, and its in the same ballpark as JFK-TLV which started on the 767.

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 23):
ATI'd

DL/KE have ATI AFAIK

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 23):
JV

IMO may never happen.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 26):

IIRC HA wanted to start KOA-HND with the current SEA-HND slot DL has.

as for Hawaii-Asia on Delta, outside of Japan, its not very likely. SEA/LAX/JFK/ATL will see all the growth in the relative future.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:59 pm

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 24):
Northwest flew DTW-Seoul with the 747 before the merger, and before ICN opened. I think DTW-Seoul Kimpo was discontinued in 1997/98, after the Asian economic crisis.

You're correct, I had forgotten NW operated DTW-Seoul primarily on the 747-200 from 1988 to about 1997.

Quoting workhorse (Reply 25):
What about PVG? I have definitely seen a 744 on PVG-NRT recently.

NRT-PVG currently operates with the 744 for July, then to 76W in August & September. October shows a mix of 76W and 77E.

As mentioned in another post, DL currently is not operating the A330 across the Pacific (except for ATL-HNL) since they want to offer a consistent lie-flat seat / BE product. Hence the shuffling of 744, 777, and 76W equipment that have have lie-flats. Once enough A330s have been through mod, they will likely show-up again across the Pacific.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:15 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 27):

DL/KE have ATI AFAIK

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 23):
JV

ATI for coordination? Yes, since 2002 I believe. But not a revenue/cost sharing JV as in place with AF/KL/AZ for TATL.
 
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:54 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 6):
I believe August is a peak holiday / vacation period in Japan.

It is indeed as is "Golden Week"--a week in April were most Japanese companies shut down for vacation and it seems like the entire nation heads to the airport. A very busy time for us. But the Japanese passengers are wonderful to care for--polite, gracious and very self-contained. They bring baby food, diapers, games and things to keep the children occupied and rarely, if ever, ask for assistance. It gives us more time to chat with them and enjoy their company.

Now if only I could teach my own countrymen these things......
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enilria
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:54 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 27):
Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 23):
ATI'd

DL/KE have ATI AFAIK

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 23):
JV

IMO may never happen.

Why was KE "Tier 4" on DL's new importance of partners FAQ? I can't tell if they are cozying up to KE or backing away.
 
goldenstate
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:37 am

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 5):
It'll be nice to have a chance to catch a DL 777 at SEA, that's a pretty rare sight.

It will eventually be a common sight.

Quoting enilria (Reply 31):
Why was KE "Tier 4" on DL's new importance of partners FAQ?

Probably because Skyteam bylaws prevent DL from completely dropping KE as a partner.
 
davescj
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:14 pm

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 32):
Probably because Skyteam bylaws prevent DL from completely dropping KE as a partner.

I found the whole "tier" thing odd. If you by the ticket with DL flight number. you get full credit.

What do DL really care who I fly if the don't offer the service between the cities (I'm thinking say ICN - DEL or some such thing).

Dave
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PHX787
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:13 am

Ok with all these changes going around I'm getting conflicting reports about my flight NRT-SEA on August 11.

What airplane am I gonna be flying on? A330 or 77L?
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CONTACREW
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:22 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 34):

Ok with all these changes going around I'm getting conflicting reports about my flight NRT-SEA on August 11.

What airplane am I gonna be flying on? A330 or 77L?

Checking Delta.com, looks like you will be on a 744.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:58 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 34):
Ok with all these changes going around I'm getting conflicting reports about my flight NRT-SEA on August 11.

What airplane am I gonna be flying on? A330 or 77L?

NRT-SEA on 8/11 will be a 744.

Not sure where you are getting conflicting reports from, its a 744.
 
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RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:37 am

Another week, another schedule update:

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
DTW-NRT:
now - 8/18: daily 744
8/19 - 10/26: daily, alternates between 77E and 744 every other day
10/27 - beyond: daily 77E

Now showing 10/27 to continue alternating between 77E and 744 every other day

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
LAX-NRT:
now - 10/26: daily 77L
10/27 - beyond: daily, alternates between 77L and 744 every other day

Now showing 10/27-beyond to be daily 77L

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
SEA-NRT:
now - 8/18: daily 744
8/19 - 9/2: daily, alternates between 76W and 744 every other day
9/3 - 9/16: daily 76W
9/17 - 10/26: daily, alternates between 76W and 77E every other day (occasional 77L)
10/27 - beyond: daily 744

Now showing 10/27 - beyond to alternate A332 and A333 every other day

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
HNL-NRT:
now - 7/26: 2x per day - daily 744 & daily 76W
7/27 - 8/18: 3x per day - 2 daily 744s, & 1 daily 76W
8/19 - 9/2: 2-3x per day - 2 daily 744s & 3x per week 76W
9/3 - 10/1: 2x per day - 1 daily 744 + 3x per week 744 + 4x per week 76W
10/2 - 10/26: 2x per day - 1 daily 76W + 3x per week 744 + 4x per week 76W
10/27 - beyond: 3x per day - 1 daily 744, 1 daily 333, 1 daily 76W


Now showing 10/27-beyond at 2x dailym 1 3331 76W
Some other interesting changes to note:

SEA-PVG upgauges from 76W to A332 effective 10/27
ATL-EZE upgauges from 767 to A332 effective 10/27
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4752
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: DL 744 / Tpac Equipment Changes - Fall 2013

Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:48 am

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 29):

But with ATI they can still discuss where to place additional capacity.

Quoting enilria (Reply 31):

Uh...? Did I miss something?

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 32):

Really? I would have thought the 330 would be more
common once they all get lie-flats
New airliners.net web site sucks....
Also the mods want to kill free speech and prevent people from saying things like the above. Better say nothing about awesomeness for this place or else!

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