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OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:21 pm

The previous thread became lengthy. In order to continue the conversation and have the ability to find new news quick Part 2 is being created.
Part 1 can be found here OZ 777 Crashes At SFO (by FlyDeltaJets Jul 6 2013 in Civil Aviation)
Our thoughts go out to all onboard the aircraft.
Regards,
The Moderator Crew

[Edited 2013-07-06 18:28:12 by jetblueguy22]
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aerobalance
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:22 pm

Not only landed short of the runway but well right of centerline...
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rwy04lga
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:25 pm

'7442' was a '74'....'7742' was a '77'.
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:27 pm

Quoting aerobalance (Reply 1):

I noticed that myself.

From CNN:

"If you had been onboard you may have heard some thumping, and some scraping. You may have also had some overhead bins opening up."

REALLY?! I never would have guessed! I guess they're just filling some time until they get more info.
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gulfstream650
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:27 pm

Such a testament to the 777, the fact that she lies in one piece.
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PW100
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:28 pm

For all those denying witness claims that the plane cart wheeled . . . I think they meant it cart wheeled horizontally, not vertically (like UA DC10 Sioux city). Seeing that the engines are ripped off, the RH wingtip significantly damaged, I find that totally plausible at this point.

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Miami
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:29 pm

What a real shocker, of a 777.

I'm dying to know the full story. I believe the landing gear hit the sea wall and that's what forced the plane to crash land.

CNN reports that the wing was coming off. Passengers say it was the tail.

Rumors keep on coming and going...
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bioyuki
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:29 pm

KTVU 2 is reporting from SF Fire that there are two fatalities.
Next flight: TK 80/864: SFO-IST-TLV
 
Mcoov
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:31 pm

Anyone have a preliminary casualty list? I'm seeing two transported to the hospital, only one serious injury, and survivors. No mention of anybody missing.

Shit son, that's a true testament to the 777's design, especially given the brutality of the fire on the aircraft's roof.

EDIT: At least two dead. Geez.....

[Edited 2013-07-06 13:34:17]
 
Gonzalo
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:32 pm

KTVU is reporting 2 people died as a consequence of this accident.

A very sad day.
And the end of an era for the 777. Considering the origin of this flight, it will be very interesting to see the cargo manifest ( NOTOC ) and see what was on board....

Rgds.
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at777
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:34 pm

I'd like to hear from the 747 pilots that were taxing right at the beginning of the runway when this happened. They will be able to tell you what happened from outside the airplane.
Could someone pull the ATC from that plane or the plane that crashed?
 
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LAXintl
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:35 pm

SFO Notam closed till 2200z.

More international diverts

AF84 77W to SEA
EK225 77W to SEA
BA285 744 to SEA
UA902 744 to SEA
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nicholasjet
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:35 pm

looking at the quotes, they've been taken out of contest and could be real. i am paraphrasing here but the cartwheeling quote was "There was a fireball under the plane and it cartwheeled" As far as i'm concerned, that's the fireball that cartwheeled, not the plane.... and would correlate to an engine that has broken off. As for the wings, those could be the stabilizers, not wings. Not everyone knows what they are called. plus, from a distance, they would look like wings.... I am starting to think it was the starboard nacelle that came off, the engine we can see is perhaps the port nacelle on the wrong side of the aircraft (considering the aircraft had slipped across the path of the engine.- it's possible that the engine flipped sides)

I think most of the debris we can see by the sea wall is the nacelle....

Again, pure speculation, but they could have been doing this approach as non-precision, which is quite common in airlines, to make sure pilots keep up their skills in such manoeuvres...
 
Upperdeck
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:38 pm

Quoting gulfstream650 (Reply 4):

She's in one piece?? I swear I saw the tail, MLG and an engine where they shouldn't be.

Fantastic that it appears everyone's OK but no aircraft can take that kind of punishment and stay in one piece.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:42 pm

While we're bashing CNN, our beloved Dutch website nu.nl uses a picture of the A380 :F

Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
Oak522
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:43 pm

CNN video feed just showed the UA885 being spun around and towed back from the hold position.
 
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OA260
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:47 pm

Quoting gulfstream650 (Reply 4):
Such a testament to the 777, the fact that she lies in one piece.

Indeed it held together when it was needed most.

Quoting at777 (Reply 10):
Could someone pull the ATC from that plane or the plane that crashed?

There was a link on original thread.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:51 pm

Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
Gonzalo
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:02 pm

Rosemary Barnes of San Jose Airport is telling by phone they have a big havoc in the airport with people being disembarked in the taxiways.... SFO down for hours would be a big headache....

Rgds.
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:04 pm

According to KTVU, 2 people have been killed and 61 are injured from the crash. Please not, these numbers are not official yet.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
okie73
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:04 pm

Not to be cold, but this crash only affects one unwary. Why shut down the whole airport?
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:08 pm

Another picture of the 777 before it burned out:

Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:10 pm

Quoting okie73 (Reply 21):
Not to be cold, but this crash only affects one unwary. Why shut down the whole airport?

Perhaps because the airports emergency crews are occupied with this crash?
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AeroWesty
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:12 pm

Quoting okie73 (Reply 21):
Why shut down the whole airport?

One reason, all of the firefighters are attending the Asiana plane. They probably couldn't cover an emergency for flights taking off and landing on the 1s.
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andreag
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:17 pm

Everybody seems to be OK? That must have been quite a slam!
Perhaps same issue as British Airways 777 at LHR few years ago?
Suddenly no power... did they ever found a reliable fix to that one?

A.
 
ThomasCook
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:18 pm

Quoting okie73 (Reply 21):
Not to be cold, but this crash only affects one unwary. Why shut down the whole airport?

Likely for a number of reasons such as FOD potential and crucially that all airport resources including emergency services are focused on this event leaving insufficient coverage for any other arrivals or departures.

ThomasCook
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denverdanny
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:21 pm

Perhaps what passengers mean when they say it flipped was that the pilot pulled back on the column to the point that the aircraft went into a near vertical (or beyond) position, but still travelling forward, before impacting the wall and runway tail first and being slammed back to the ground. The Concorde achieved such a position before it crashed due to stall, right?

If there are casualties, I wonder if they will be by the exit blocked by the no 2 engine. Smoke inhalation probably was what would kill anyone in this crash.

[Edited 2013-07-06 14:24:56]
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:22 pm

BTW did anyone see the left-hand side engine?
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
Gatorman96
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:26 pm

Must have been quite a ride for the F/A's in the rear of the aircraft. Speculation of course, but I wonder if they account for the two fatalities?
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:29 pm

I'd expect the L side engine to be located in the bay. None of the news copter footage shows the engine on the runway or the area at the a/c. bits of the vertical stabilizer are on the threshold. There are police boats just off the end of 28L now.
 
nutsaboutplanes
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:33 pm

With the aircraft being off the center-line as indicated by the impact, does anyone think this could have been a botched go-around?
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Gatorman96
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:43 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 29):
I'd expect the L side engine to be located in the bay.

I may be wrong, but if the tail hit first, I would think the engines would be well above the seawall. It's possible that after the tail hit, the left side of the plane slammed down next, shearing off the left MLG and the engine much further down the runway from where the plane came to rest.
 
bioyuki
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:52 pm

Local media are now reporting 2 dead, 40 critical, spread out across a few hospitals (SF General, Mills Peninsula, St. Francis Memorial).

[Edited 2013-07-06 14:54:33]
Next flight: TK 80/864: SFO-IST-TLV
 
PHX Flyer
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:53 pm

Where are the FDR and CVR installed on a B777 - inside the pressurized cabin or in the tail cone behind the pressure bulkhead?
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KarelXWB
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:54 pm

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 30):
With the aircraft being off the center-line as indicated by the impact, does anyone think this could have been a botched go-around?

Not sure but according to some eyewitnesses:

> Jet approached without the nose slightly tilted upward as required at the point of contact.
> Nose pitched up as it crossed the threshold, possibly causing the tail to hit the tarmac.

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bioyuki
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:58 pm

6-9 pax taken to St. Francis Memorial which is the regional burn center.
Next flight: TK 80/864: SFO-IST-TLV
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:02 pm

Asiana still has the aircraft listed as flying.
http://i.imgur.com/Y0XwMdx.png

It blows my mind they still haven't come out with a statement. Not even anything on social media.
Pat
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Mir
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:03 pm

Quoting okie73 (Reply 20):
Not to be cold, but this crash only affects one unwary. Why shut down the whole airport?

Because all the crash/fire/rescue crews are attending to the Asiana plane, and couldn't cover another emergency if necessary.

Once they resume operations it'll be the 1/19s only, which is either going to make takeoffs on the 19s or landings on the 1s very interesting.

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flymia
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:04 pm

Daughter of passenger on flight said her father said "I knew it was coming, plane was too low, pilot tried to fix it last second"
If this is the case don't understand how a professional pilot makes a mistake like this. Of course other factors could be involved but none showed up on ATC.

Also pretty sure CNN had a fake witness saying the plane flipped lots both its wings etc.. Way to go CNN and most other news outlets. They just know nothing abut aviation.

Any word on fatalities?
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hmmmm...
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:08 pm

Well, it's clear from the photos that the gear struck the seawall. It came down way too short off the runway, just like BA038. And it was coming down from a long flight that could have led to icing in the fuel lines, and then a sudden surge of fuel flow could have dislodged a chunk of ice and blocked the fuel/oil heat exchanger. Other than that, I can't see why a 777 would crash land in perfectly good weather at SFO.
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srbmod
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:08 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 27):
BTW did anyone see the left-hand side engine?
Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 29):

I'd expect the L side engine to be located in the bay. None of the news copter footage shows the engine on the runway or the area at the a/c. bits of the vertical stabilizer are on the threshold. There are police boats just off the end of 28L now.
Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 31):
I may be wrong, but if the tail hit first, I would think the engines would be well above the seawall. It's possible that after the tail hit, the left side of the plane slammed down next, shearing off the left MLG and the engine much further down the runway from where the plane came to rest.

It looks to be in the water right before the seawall, as based on the images being shown on TV, there is something in the water there that looks a lot like the top of the engine pylon. If so, perhaps it hit the jetty/seawall first, sheared off and fell into the water as the rest of the plane moved forward. The debris field starts right at the end of the runway, so it seems likely that the #1 engine impacted the jetty.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:10 pm

Another picture from someone who was on board that flight:



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AeroWesty
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:11 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 37):
It blows my mind they still haven't come out with a statement.

At 7am on a Sunday morning in Seoul, I'm not surprised at all.
International Homo of Mystery
 
ThomasCook
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:11 pm

Sky News are reporting that the South Korean Embassy in the US has confirmed 1 dead with a further report of 10 in critical condition in hospital including 2 children.
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Flaps
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:11 pm

As another poster stated the engine in the photos could be the left engine not the right in spite of its position to the right of the aircraft. It appears the aircraft struck well to the right of the center line and then spun its way toward its final resting place. The fact that the engine in the photo is where one would expect to see the right engine does not necessarily make it so. The missing engine could be in the bay or simply scattered elsewhere than where the main wreckage came to rest.
 
Senchingo
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:13 pm

As per AV Herald, no one was killed. Media reports seem to be wrong.

Quote:
Emergency services reported all occupants have been accounted for and are alive. Emergency services repeated ALL occupants have been accounted for in response to media reports that two people have been killed and said, these reports are untrue. A number of people were taken to hospitals with injuries of varying degrees.
http://avherald.com/h?article=464ef64f&opt=0

German news station N-TV says "unconfirmed, but pilot error suspected"
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:14 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 38):
Daughter of passenger on flight said her father said "I knew it was coming, plane was too low, pilot tried to fix it last second"
If this is the case don't understand how a professional pilot makes a mistake like this.

Perhaps he just thought he had enough time to correct it. I know there are landings I have had in training where i think I could safely make it, but a go around was the safe bet. Sine he is a professional pilot perhaps he thought he had the skill to continue the approach and land safe.

Quoting flymia (Reply 38):
Also pretty sure CNN had a fake witness saying the plane flipped lots both its wings etc.. Way to go CNN and most other news outlets. They just know nothing abut aviation.

A lot happened really quick. It doesn't surprise me that a victim may have gotten their story wrong. It isn't all that hard to get disoriented up front, can't be too hard in the back.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 42):
At 7am on a Sunday morning in Seoul, I'm not surprised at all.

Yeah but they aren't announcing a facebook event, their airplane crashed. At least get something out there.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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DesertFlyer
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:15 pm

I just got back from the airport. I was amazed how fast they got the fire out. They were bringing lots of passengers to the terminal via bus, but there were also many, many ambulances transporting people. There was a REACH (Air Medical) helicopter that came in, loaded up, and left (I assume with some of the more severely injured).
 
awthompson
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:15 pm

I'm surprised no-one has explained why so many observers thought the plane flipped over.

Its pretty clear to me.

From the only photograph I have seen of the crash enfolding, the starboard wing is indeed very high, appearing to be at the start of an anticlockwise/left flip (relative to direction of travel). Immediately after that glimpse of the starboard wing high in the air, everything is shrouded in a cloud of dust/smoke. Witnesses then assume that the aircraft has indeed continued to roll right over after it became obscured by dust/smoke.

We know that the wings did not separate, however the outer sections of both wings are substantially damaged and have taken quite a beating.

The point I take from the above is that the wings of the 777 have high integrity. This ensured that the port wing did not separate hence preventing the aircraft from completing the flip. The aircraft has simply fallen back to the flat position after it was obscured by the dust cloud. The designer(s) must attract some praise here!
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: OZ 777 Crash At SFO Part 2

Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:16 pm

San Francisco General Hospital tweeted they are treating 10 passengers of OZ 214 crash in critical condition.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK

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