United Airline
Topic Author
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:04 am

QF's international network has been a lot smaller than it was. That is: No flights to Europe other than to LHR, no more HKG/SIN/BKK-LHR, LAX-AKL etc. I suppose a lot of these are profitable routes. Why did they cut them? Will they ever grow the international network again and bring back these flights?
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:12 am

Lots of good info in these threads in the combined 500+ replies describing the situation:

Qantas To Axe Frankfurt - EK Announcement Imminent (by jetfuel Aug 30 2012 in Civil Aviation)

QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 (by tayser Sep 5 2012 in Civil Aviation)
International Homo of Mystery
 
United Airline
Topic Author
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:46 am

I have read these.

But they have axed so many routes! Geeeeeeeeez
 
qf002
Posts: 3092
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:53 am

QF is on the record saying that they will look at international expansion against once the international division has returned to profit. FY14 is their target, which means we should have a pretty clear idea of what the future holds July-September next year.

They have discussed the potential to expand international -- PEK, ICN, India have all been mentioned in the context of the 787 in recent months, and Alan Joyce said that the airline was looking at doing more at CBR with the 787 (though that was in an address to CBR business leaders, so take it as you will).

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
I suppose a lot of these are profitable routes. Why did they cut them?

They weren't profitable, which is why they were cut. The recent changes have all been profit driven, which is exactly what the company needed. The only cuts not driven by profit were SFO and EZE, which were both replaced with alternatives that better fit their strategy.

You have to realise that Australia is a extremely expensive place to do business on a global scale. Recent currency fluctuations have made that situation worse for QF, allowing foreign airlines to drop AUD fares without losing yeild while decreasing the yeild QF earns on equivalent fares sold in other currencies.
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:52 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 2):
I have read these.

And you didn't catch onto the fact that they've essentially expanded their international network through their partnership with Emirates? I weep for you.
 
jetfuel
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:27 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:21 am

They are winding down QF and investing in Jetstar with lower overheads and lower wages. Sad but true.
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
rlx01
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:16 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:04 am

If they just brought SFO back, all would be forgiven.  
 
United Airline
Topic Author
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:34 am

And perhaps YVR?

I suppose BKK-LHR, HKG-LHR, SIN-LHR were profitable???? Will they ever be back? LAX-AKL?

QF's flights to Europe=a bit dull with LHR as the only destination. Wonder if they will add another one?

Quoting bill142 (Reply 4):
And you didn't catch onto the fact that they've essentially expanded their international network through their partnership with Emirates? I weep for you.

I know. I just find it a bit sad since QF used to have a larger network with its own metals
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:58 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 7):
I suppose BKK-LHR, HKG-LHR, SIN-LHR were profitable???? Will they ever be back? LAX-AKL?

How many times are you going to ask the same questions, expecting a different answer?

Will QF Bring Back Axed Routes Like LHR-BKK/HKG? (by United Airline May 26 2012 in Aviation Polls)

Will QF's HKG-LHR/BKK-LHR/AKL-LAX Ever Return? (by United Airline Apr 10 2012 in Civil Aviation)
International Homo of Mystery
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:04 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 7):
I know. I just find it a bit sad since QF used to have a larger network with its own metals


Those days are long gone. Once upon a time QF was only competing with a few lucrative carriers SQ, TG, CX, MH, KL, OS and now days you have Middle Eastern airlines EK, EY, QR with deep pockets and Asian carriers CZ, CA, MU competing for the same piece of the cake. Lets not forget the labour costs which is a huge advantage when compared with mainline QF. From what we hearing QF International is target returning to profit from 2014 onwards & hopefully expansion can resume utilising EK/MU.... I mean QF.

EK8413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
United Airline
Topic Author
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:06 am

I simply want an update. I know there aren't much of a difference.

In the past QF International was very profitable. Now.........
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:13 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 10):
I simply want an update.

They aren't coming back. QF operates under a different model now.
International Homo of Mystery
 
JQflightie
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:18 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:32 am

QF, although hasn't added destination's, they have added more dedicated seats to destinations such as SIN HKG and BKK .

Rumours circulating around the crew atm is PER-AKL and PER-DXB-TXL(BER) on a A332 HGW

QF needs the 789's before they expand the international network, also only if QF International returns to profitability by 2015. Destination's hinted by AJ are ICN, PEK, DEL, and re-instating BOM.
Next Trip: PER-DPS-KUL-BKK-HKT-CNX-BKK-SIN-PER
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13772
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:45 am

QF will slowly decline and die off as a carrier due to far too many missteps over the past decades and much stronger, better positioned competition. The writing on the wall was when they made a deal with the devil in EK.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
User avatar
zkokq
Posts: 515
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:44 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:00 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):

Oh right, its all doom and gloom because you read it on the internet? You have to be kidding.

QF has alot very good times ahead of it, with someone at the helm who will make the right decisions for the Qantas Group, not share holder returns or a quick cash grab as CEO. I have alot of belief that the partnership with EK will make QF stronger.

Let not forget the QF & EK tieup isnt a one way deal. If you cant see the benifits for Qantas, I suggest you reread.
 
United Airline
Topic Author
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:15 am

I believe QF will once again become strong. Hope international will grow again.

Wonder why a lot of people want this EK-QF deal to die

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11):
They aren't coming back. QF operates under a different model now.

Thanks for the info. Perhaps HKG-LHR with the B 789? My two cents.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:05 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 15):
Perhaps HKG-LHR with the B 789?

No. QF isn't going to fly HKG-LHR any longer. Not even with a new plane. It's time for you to accept it and move on.
International Homo of Mystery
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13772
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:32 am

Quoting zkokq (Reply 14):

No.

It's based on their history and their future plans. Ultimately QF will be a domestic carrier who lets EK handle most international flying with JQ doing the rest. Other than USA flying there's nothing QF does that others can't do better.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
User avatar
zkokq
Posts: 515
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:44 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:43 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 17):

Same could be said with every carrier. I guess thats why aviation is such a cut throat industry.

There is not one thing special about any carrier. The American legacys show us this.
 
1400mph
Posts: 1051
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:29 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:07 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 17):
Other than USA flying there's nothing QF does that others can't do better.

I think QF should have stuck with BA and concentrated on LHR, forget about the rest of Europe.

BA may have placed the A380 on the Kangaroo route and QF passengers may tire of transiting through Dubai (especially when compared to SIN) when EK has reached its targeted size.

Also focused on trans-Pacific and non-stop Asia.
 
User avatar
DexSwart
Posts: 609
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:08 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:10 pm

Just adding a small contribution by saying that they run full 747s to JNB every day.
I know full planes don't neccisarily mean profit, but, last time I spoke to some people in QF, they said that SYD - JNB is one of their very profitable routes.
Durban. Melbourne. Denver. Hong Kong.
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:26 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 17):
Other than USA flying there's nothing QF does that others can't do better.

No not true. QF is like TAM. The old VARIG flew from a southern capital north, to all far flung corners of the world, but faced with modern challenges couldn't simply sustain destinations like HKG anymore. But as its replacement, TAM links a big southern capital to the big important cities north of it. For QF... this will similarly big a big part of its long haul future. It can do one thing a lot of the others can't. And that is bypass hubs and fly from Australia direct to major cities in Asia. For that it will require the 787-9. The 747 is just too big for many routes. Where QF wins against some of those carriers is it can grow its Australian loyalty (and Emirates helps there, not detracts! If you take QF/EK to europe over thai or SIA, then if you need to go from Melbourne to Tokyo you're more likely to take a QF offering than go Thai again) and China Southern can't take you from Shanghai to Hobart. QF can. It won't control the market. But it can probably pick up another 5 to 10 percent in the long run if it can run more direct flights sustainably direct into asia bypassing major hubs.
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:04 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):

QF will slowly decline and die off as a carrier due to far too many missteps over the past decades and much stronger, better positioned competition. The writing on the wall was when they made a deal with the devil in EK.

Hadn't QF jumped into bed with EK they would've been killed off by EK / EY anyways... better the devil you know, than the devil you don't!

EK8413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
jfk777
Posts: 5861
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:34 pm

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 21):
No not true. QF is like TAM. The old VARIG flew from a southern capital north, to all far flung corners of the world,

Varig and TAM fly(flew) to many cities in Europe and North America that are all within nonstop range from Sao Paulo and Rio. GRU to the USA and Europe are viable with regular long haul jets like 767 and A330's. Sydney requires outside of Asia planes like 77W, A380 & 787-9.
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:49 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 17):
Other than USA flying there's nothing QF does that others can't do better.

And if Delta and United did what's smart and pulled out of Australia, Qantas International would become profitable overnight.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6238
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:20 pm

Quoting bill142 (Reply 24):
And if Delta and United did what's smart and pulled out of Australia, Qantas International would become profitable overnight.

If they are earning money, why should they? I am not categorically claiming that UA and DL's Australian routes are profitable, but it is very possible that they actually are actually; otherwise they would have already quit.

For whom or from whose perspective would such a move be smart?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
qf002
Posts: 3092
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:34 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 17):
Other than USA flying there's nothing QF does that others can't do better.

This is absolutely not true. No other airline (aside from VA, which is devoted to serving SQ's best interests) can offer a wide range of nonstop Australia-Asia flights to the corporate market that craves them. This is where QF's future lies in Asia, which means focusing primarily on the cities that have business links rather than trying to be everything and pleasing every segment of the market.

Some people might not like it, but that's what happens when the toursit/VFR market isn't prepared to pay a little extra to support QF.

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 19):
I think QF should have stuck with BA and concentrated on LHR, forget about the rest of Europe.

That's essentially what they've spent the last decade doing. They've tried all sorts of different routes and aircraft in different places in that time, and nothing has worked. They gave the most recent changes (the concentration at SIN) a good try, but even that didn't work.

It was time to try something new.

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 20):
Just adding a small contribution by saying that they run full 747s to JNB every day.
I know full planes don't neccisarily mean profit, but, last time I spoke to some people in QF, they said that SYD - JNB is one of their very profitable routes.

JNB is a goldmine for QF. It's also one of their most financially secure routes because of the deal with SA.

Quoting bill142 (Reply 24):
And if Delta and United did what's smart and pulled out of Australia, Qantas International would become profitable overnight.

Moreso if it was SQ or CX that did the 'sensible' thing and pulled out of the market. How it is sensible to drop profitable routes I don't understand, but of course the loss of competition will see the rest of the market benefit.
 
User avatar
IrishAyes
Posts: 2162
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:44 pm

The short answer is that it is unlikely QF will re-enter any of the markets it has dropped in the near-term future. The model has changed, the business environment has changed, and the competition has made it virtually impossible to allow such routes to become viable again.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet on this thread is that airlines like Qantas, similar to LAN, SAA, etc. are end-of-line carriers: their home markets are geographically located in far-flung regions that will always lose out to the more advantageously-placed airlines like the Middle East/Gulf Coast carriers. Long-haul expansion from end-of-line carriers requires MUCH more capital investment and infrastructure that airlines like QF and all cannot sustain profitably.

Hence, why it, similar to Virgin Australia, have shifted towards building virtual networks via partnerships, code-shares and other long-haul operators.

It's time to accept this status quo as reality and move on. LAX-AKL is not coming back on QF metal anytime soon, period. However, that does not mean the market doesn't exist for it, and it is quite possible that AA may enter it at some point.

So, the silver lining is that just because a carrier withdraws from a route, doesn't mean another operator cannot fill the void with better changes of success.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 25):
If they are earning money, why should they? I am not categorically claiming that UA and DL's Australian routes are profitable, but it is very possible that they actually are actually; otherwise they would have already quit.

For whom or from whose perspective would such a move be smart?

  
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
User avatar
OA412
Crew
Posts: 3778
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:51 pm

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
I suppose a lot of these are profitable routes.
Quoting United Airline (Reply 7):
I suppose BKK-LHR, HKG-LHR, SIN-LHR were profitable????


   No, no, no, no, no! How can you be on this site for over 12 years now and still think that airlines cut profitable routes? How?

Quoting bill142 (Reply 4):
And you didn't catch onto the fact that they've essentially expanded their international network through their partnership with Emirates? I weep for you.

  

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
How many times are you going to ask the same questions, expecting a different answer?

I have just lost all patience. What a waste of forum space.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
jfk777
Posts: 5861
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:12 pm

Quoting bill142 (Reply 24):
And if Delta and United did what's smart and pulled out of Australia, Qantas International would become profitable overnight.

Before Delta started flying their once daily 777 from LAX to Sydney they gave over 100 passengers daily to other airlines at LAX based on info on this board for travel to Austrlalia. 100 sounds very plausible given its LAX and Delta's huge operation there. An airline as huge as DL with big operations to both Europe and Asia desrves and has the muscle to feed a flight to Australia and could fly to Brisbane and Melbourne witha 787.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 25):
If they are earning money, why should they? I am not categorically claiming that UA and DL's Australian routes are profitable, but it is very possible that they actually are actually; otherwise they would have already quit.

Why should Qantas own the Pacific route to Australia with no United or USA airline ? UA took over the Pan AM operation which in 1986 was very strong to Australia. ITs not United, Delta's or Virgin Australia's fault the Australian Government has essentialy offered "open skies" to Emirates, Qatar and Etihad. Australia could or should taken a page from their Canadian cousins limiting Emirates to 3 flights weekly since that is the number of passnengers that travel from Canada to Dubai. Once Daily to sydney and Melbourne is al I would hae allowed for Emirates. Australia, before Emirates, was already getting it from Cathay and Singapore Airlines. The Midlde East is just poaring gasoline over a problem that didn't need to become worse.

[Edited 2013-07-11 11:39:14]

[Edited 2013-07-11 11:55:29]
 
User avatar
N14AZ
Posts: 2050
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:24 pm

So what are they actually planning to do with their outstanding A 380s?

I know someone working in XFW who is convinced that we will not see any additional A 380s for QF.
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 3954
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:20 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 10):
In the past QF International was very profitable. Now.........

No, it was not, and has not been for a very long time.

Even when the whole group was making over A$1 billion in profit, international was not profitable. All of the profit was from domestic which was effectively subsidising international. The numbers were so good that it didn't really matter and the previous management under Geoff Dixon and before that under James Strong did not do anything to turn the international business around.

Having a foreign born person at the helm has been very good because he is not saddled with the emotion that Australians have for Qantas. Therefore he can and has made the hard decisions to put the airline on a sound financial footing as a whole.

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 19):
I think QF should have stuck with BA and concentrated on LHR, forget about the rest of Europe.

Considering reports immediately after the Emirates deal went through that bookings to other destinations in Europe were up by hundreds of per cent compared to what BA was booking for them, your comment is pretty ill informed.

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 30):
So what are they actually planning to do with their outstanding A 380s?

The last aircraft will replace the Boeing 747-400ERs at the end of the decade.

Qantas will grow its international network and I can see that happening once they convert their 787 options for delivery from 2016. No-one seems to have any patience and thinks all of this change can be completed instantly. Patience, patience, patience.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
L0VE2FLY
Posts: 860
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:54 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:51 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 31):
Qantas will grow its international network and I can see that happening once they convert their 787 options for delivery from 2016. No-one seems to have any patience and thinks all of this change can be completed instantly. Patience, patience, patience.

What options? Didn't they cancel all their 787s? Except the ones destined for JQ. I doubt we will see any significant expansion by QF after their partnership with EK & the cancellation of the 787s.
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:52 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 23):
Varig and TAM fly(flew) to many cities in Europe and North America that are all within nonstop range from Sao Paulo and Rio. GRU to the USA and Europe are viable with regular long haul jets like 767 and A330's. Sydney requires outside of Asia planes like 77W, A380 & 787-9.

Exactly. We just need to take a look at all the European carriers which have withdrawn services to Australia, AZ, OS, LH, OA, KL just name a few. Had Australia been in geographical location such as DXB, SIN, HGK I'm sure QF would have an advantages over the competitors.

EK8413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
qf002
Posts: 3092
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:32 am

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 32):
What options? Didn't they cancel all their 787s? Except the ones destined for JQ.

They canceled their firm 787-9 orders, but still have 35 options and fixed delivery slots from 2016. Their arrangement with Boeing sounds a lot like what AA has done with their 787 order.
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:39 am

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 32):

They still have purchase rights for 789s from 2016. They will reevaluate both 787 and A350 before proceeding.
 
a380787
Posts: 4417
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:48 am

Many of QF's route shrinkage in the past few years has directly benefited Star carriers :

SIN-LHR
SIN-FRA
BKK-LHR
SYD-SFO
AKL-LAX

QF needs more long-haul mainline and less JQ-ization. Otherwise VA will really start eating their lunch (with their strong virtual network encompassing EY, SQ, NZ, and DL)
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18256
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:31 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 36):
QF needs more long-haul mainline and less JQ-ization.

Why? As has been discussed, long haul mainline isn't - or hasn't been - profitable.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 36):
Otherwise VA will really start eating their lunch (with their strong virtual network encompassing EY, SQ, NZ, and DL)

People keep telling me this but never explaining why. The Qantas network, both actual and virtual, is stronger.

As for Virgin, I find it a bit unfortunate that an Australian international airline has to trade off a British name.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
a380787
Posts: 4417
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:44 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 37):
Why? As has been discussed, long haul mainline isn't - or hasn't been - profitable.

JQ-ization lowers both the cost and the product standard, driving more business travelers to VA and Asian rivals like CX and SQ. JQ is a fine airline for short haul and long-haul leisure like CNS and OOL, but shouldn't be replacing core routes just because it's a lower cost base on paper.

Even SQ knows how to restrict Scoot/Tigerair and not to overstep on SQ/Silk territory, LH keeps germanwings out of FRA/MUC, AirCanada clearly delineates between mainline and rouge, and ANA knows how to base Peach out of KIX ... perhaps QF can learn from their successful playbook(s)

QF has a very low ceiling if they continue being Sydney Airways
 
United Airline
Topic Author
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:57 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 31):
No, it was not, and has not been for a very long time.

Even when the whole group was making over A$1 billion in profit, international was not profitable. All of the profit was from domestic which was effectively subsidising international. The numbers were so good that it didn't really matter and the previous management under Geoff Dixon and before that under James Strong did not do anything to turn the international business around.

Having a foreign born person at the helm has been very good because he is not saddled with the emotion that Australians have for Qantas. Therefore he can and has made the hard decisions to put the airline on a sound financial footing as a whole.

What went wrong with the international routes? The routes seem to be good/competitive routes. And QF has great products/service. Umm...........

Why did those routes stay on for so long? For example BKK-LHR etc.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18256
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:06 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 38):
JQ-ization lowers both the cost and the product standard, driving more business travelers to VA and Asian rivals like CX and SQ.

Australians have been flocking to the Asian carriers since long before there was a Jetstar. Jetstar may be reclaiming some of them.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 38):
JQ is a fine airline for short haul and long-haul leisure like CNS and OOL, but shouldn't be replacing core routes just because it's a lower cost base on paper.

If Jetstar can make money where Qantas can't, I don't see a problem.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 38):
Even SQ knows how to restrict Scoot/Tigerair and not to overstep on SQ/Silk territory, LH keeps germanwings out of FRA/MUC, AirCanada clearly delineates between mainline and rouge, and ANA knows how to base Peach out of KIX ... perhaps QF can learn from their successful playbook(s)

I have never been remotely confused between Qantas and Jetstar.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 38):
QF has a very low ceiling if they continue being Sydney Airways

That's out of left field, especially on a day when Qantas signs a deal to promote Queensland. I'm struggling to see the connection with Jetstar.

mariner

[Edited 2013-07-11 20:13:42]
aeternum nauta
 
qf002
Posts: 3092
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:36 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 38):
JQ is a fine airline for short haul and long-haul leisure like CNS and OOL, but shouldn't be replacing core routes just because it's a lower cost base on paper.

And where exactly has JQ replaced QF on 'core routes'? QF has actually invested a lot of money to improve their product, so it's a little unfair to claim that they are participating in the race to the bottom like many other airlines are.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 38):
QF has a very low ceiling if they continue being Sydney Airways

Why? SYD is where the bulk of their core corporate market is, so it makes complete sense that the bulk of their operation is based there. I am all for more connections outside SYD (and am hopeful that more fuel efficient planes will help it happen), but QF can't serve markets that won't support their operation profitably.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:39 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 39):
Why did those routes stay on for so long? For example BKK-LHR etc.

Because BKK-LHR was one of the JSA routes operated with BA, as explained in the previous threads linked above.
International Homo of Mystery
 
1400mph
Posts: 1051
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:29 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:40 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 31):
Considering reports immediately after the Emirates deal went through that bookings to other destinations in Europe were up by hundreds of per cent compared to what BA was booking for them, your comment is pretty ill informed.

Yeah on EK. QF's just doing the donkey work to Dubai.

Thin end of the wedge if you ask me.

EK claims their first scalp.

[Edited 2013-07-11 23:40:57]
 
nascarnut
Posts: 288
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:43 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:01 am

Chances are QF would operate SYD-AKL-DFW-AKL-SYD A380 replacing the SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD 744 service before the reinstated AKL-LAX. You would probably see AA operate LAX-AKL service before QF would reenter the market.
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:02 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 38):
QF has a very low ceiling if they continue being Sydney Airways

What do you suggest they do? Having every major city in Australia simply isn't feasible. You have a complete misunderstanding of Australian dynamics.
 
1400mph
Posts: 1051
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:29 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:17 am

I cannot think of any other example be it on short-haul or long-haul where an airline has had to 'totally' surrender large markets based solely on the ops of an airline not based in the same country or bloc ?
 
qf002
Posts: 3092
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:42 am

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 46):
I cannot think of any other example be it on short-haul or long-haul where an airline has had to 'totally' surrender large markets based solely on the ops of an airline not based in the same country or bloc ?

'Totally'? They dropped one of three flights as part of the EK deal and have spoken at length about the fact that this deal paves the way for additional flights once they are in a position to grow again (BER has been specifically mentioned by Alan Joyce, but CDG and FCO also make sense IMO).

In any case, it's a totally ridiculous suggestion that this is what has happened with QF/EK. To put it in reverse, EK has 'surrendered' to the strength QF's frequent flyer programme and allowed it to take their Australian business. They've already said that Skywards activity is down since the end of March.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:43 am

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 46):
I cannot think of any other example be it on short-haul or long-haul where an airline has had to 'totally' surrender large markets based solely on the ops of an airline not based in the same country or bloc ?

Markets constantly change.

• The European carriers have cut services to Australia over the past decade or more as more passengers either were carried the whole way by airlines such as SQ, or it was more efficient for them to link up with a carrier in SE Asia to complete the journey for their own passengers headed to Oz.

• Cross-channel flights on the traditional routes have dropped severely in terms of passenger numbers as the gauge and frequencies succumbed to competition from Eurostar, and the number of available destinations broadened by the growth of the LCCs.

• The transatlantic became splintered away from the traditional gateways like JFK as ETOPS allowed the 767 to move traffic out to the domestic U.S. hubs.

Undoubtedly, the next to go will be the trunk routes between N. America and Japan, as airlines overfly Tokyo-Narita. More beyond Tokyo flights by U.S. carriers will go to alliance partners, rather than operating 5th freedom flights on their own metal.

Things change. Describing appropriate flying as donkey's work, or filling forums with endless "when will XXX return to their former glory" type of threads, will accomplish nothing. Move with the times or be left behind.
International Homo of Mystery
 
AnsettB727
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:19 am

RE: Will QF Ever Grow Its International Network?

Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:17 am

I have to say that I've chosen BA over QF to fly back and forth between SYD and LHR due to the fact that I don't like the way the flight is split via DXB. I love the QF A380, but I'm not prepared to fork out hundreds of pounds extra to fly it, and for me, flying via SIN is a much nicer way to get home from the UK. Ultimately, however, I think the ageing BA fleet will push me back on to QF - no A380 service to SYD on BA is a negative for me.