LAXintl
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California Pacific Still Trying...

Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:13 pm

California Pacific Airlines is back in front of the DOT requesting for additional time to hang onto its its economic authorities and extension in deadline to achieve its FAA air carrier certification.

Some might remember that CP Air had 1-year time frame from mid-2011 in meeting DOT requirements by earning its FAA Air Carrier Certificate and Operations Specifications or otherwise risked having the authorities revoked for dormancy.
After failing to achieve this CP subsequently asked for an received an extension for start up till February 2013.

However by December 2012, CP learned the FAA San Diego office was suspending its certificate application process. Only a few weeks ago, the agency agreed to resume the air carrier certification process out of the Los Angeles regional office.

CP accordingly now asks the DOT for a further start extension. Carrier says it is hopeful that the FAA process can be completed before the end of 2013.

A couple of tidbits:
-Start up expenses so far about $10mil.
-Require another ~$4.3mil in prestart up funding through years end.
-More changes in management, and board of directors
-Now looking to launch with 2 aircraft initially. 3rd plane arrives in the 9th month.
-Still need launch capital. Hired Arkansas based financial services firm to search for $$

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apodino
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:17 pm

The rumor has it that this carrier, if they get their certificate, wants to bid on regional flying for airlines like United. If they succeed, get their certificate, and win the flying from Majors...it is really going to cause big problems at the existing regionals, and you will probably see a couple of more fold up in the next few years.

Of course...that is a big if as well.
 
93Sierra
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:22 pm

Last I saw their aircraft it was at DVT in Phoenix, I believe Honeywell was using the aircraft . When they say the want to serve Phoenix, do they mean PHX or Gateway?
 
Goldenshield
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:19 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 1):
The rumor has it that this carrier, if they get their certificate, wants to bid on regional flying for airlines like United. If they succeed, get their certificate, and win the flying from Majors...it is really going to cause big problems at the existing regionals,

Going to 1 aircraft to 40 practically overnight is a disaster waiting to happen. Colgan was a bigger operation when they won the CO turboprop flying back in 2004, but winning that bid practically tripled their size overnight.
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kgaiflyer
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:54 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 1):
The rumor has it that this carrier, if they get their certificate, wants to bid on regional flying for airlines like United. If they succeed, get their certificate, and win the flying from Majors...it is really going to cause big problems at the existing regionals, and you will probably see a couple of more fold up in the next few years.

A shame they can't work on the east coast. E70s have become quite popular on the (nearly hourly) DCA-ORD service and the IAD-IAH runs done by sUA.

But S5 can't possible produce enough planes to expand service.
 
93Sierra
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:31 pm

Why are they trying to become a mainline express/connection carrier? I thought their business model was to connect Carlsbad with a couple of cities in California and the Southwest.
 
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Polot
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:42 pm

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 5):
Why are they trying to become a mainline express/connection carrier? I thought their business model was to connect Carlsbad with a couple of cities in California and the Southwest.

The problem with that business model (and honestly, likely one of the reasons why they are having so much difficulty in getting startup capital) is that a successful business continues to grow. What happens when they max out of Carlsbad, which, due to its small size and relatively short runway will happen sooner rather than later? They need a more viable plan than "serving Carlsbad airport". Where do they go?
 
point2point
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:55 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 6):
The problem with that business model (and honestly, likely one of the reasons why they are having so much difficulty in getting startup capital) is that a successful business continues to grow. What happens when they max out of Carlsbad, which, due to its small size and relatively short runway will happen sooner rather than later? They need a more viable plan than "serving Carlsbad airport". Where do they go?

It would seem that they need to do what they want to do with CLD...... and then worry about growing. Is it that they are now trying to grow..... and not do what they intended to do at CLD???

 
 
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Polot
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:06 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 7):
It would seem that they need to do what they want to do with CLD...... and then worry about growing. Is it that they are now trying to grow..... and not do what they intended to do at CLD???

They need to do both at the same time. Yes, you don't want to run before you walk, but to be successful (and to attract a lot of money) you need to have a long term strategy on want you want to be. You can't play things day by day, especially in this industry.

For B6, it was to be NY's LCC, a market that at the time had few LCCs, connecting JFK (a large airport in a large market which at the time had a lot of room during the day) with popular NY markets (i.e. Florida). With Skybus (although it didn't work out) it was to be a ULCC in the same vein as Ryanair. With VX it is to offer great hip service in competitive markets in hopes of luring passengers from competitors while relying on the strength of the Virgin brand to help them out.

What is CP's hook? We will fly out of CLD...which is convenient for those who are from or need to go to Carlsbad. Where do you move on from that? Becoming a large PSA/AirCal like airline hoping you don't get crushed by the likes of WN, AS, VX, UA, DL etc?

[Edited 2013-07-16 17:06:35]
 
EMBQA
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:48 am

The aircraft has been on site over a year and not one revenue mile flown. I wonder who is doing the calendar items that have come due..?
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DesertAir
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:52 am

I like the concept of Surf Air...it´s not for everyone but seems to fit a flying segment of the population. They should use the Carlsbad airport. It is a question of California Pacific finding its place in the market. They should start small in CLD and see what developes. They need wise leadership, not greedy growth-hungry.
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:56 am

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 2):
When they say the want to serve Phoenix, do they mean PHX or Gateway?

PHX. Although personally I think they'd be better off serving IWA/AZA instead.
 
LAXintl
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:34 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 9):
The aircraft has been on site over a year and not one revenue mile flown. I wonder who is doing the calendar items that have come due..?

Aircraft is out flying. Its leased to Honeywell. I believe it due back in August/September'ish.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N760CP

California Pacific E170 @ PHX 5/15 (by jmc1975 May 15 2013 in Civil Aviation)

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PSA727
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:06 am

How is it that an E170 without taking any penalties can take off out of CLD? I thought that an E145 or CR2 can't even do that.
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PHX787
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:38 am

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 2):
Last I saw their aircraft it was at DVT in Phoenix, I believe Honeywell was using the aircraft . When they say the want to serve Phoenix, do they mean PHX or Gateway?
Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 11):
PHX. Although personally I think they'd be better off serving IWA/AZA instead.

It's gonna be at PHX because frankly AZA is the ULCC's playground of strange service. PHX better serves this route because of CP's business-catering nature.
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PlymSpotter
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:10 pm

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 13):
How is it that an E170 without taking any penalties can take off out of CLD? I thought that an E145 or CR2 can't even do that.

They most likely can't. The original CRJs and EMBs have very poor runway performance for their size, but the ERJ 170 and 190 are by comparison rocket ships well suited to short runways.


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BMI727
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:40 pm

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 13):
I thought that an E145 or CR2 can't even do that.

Those things fly like pigs. Not having slats is a big handicap.
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atcsundevil
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:45 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 14):
It's gonna be at PHX because frankly AZA is the ULCC's playground of strange service. PHX better serves this route because of CP's business-catering nature.

Except that the PHX-SoCal market is pretty saturated by the big guys. AZA-SoCal service is non-existent thus far, but the demand is certainly there. Trying to compete against US, WN, UA, DL, and AA will not go well for a small start-up carrier with no brand recognition or loyalty. If CP is really trying to compete for business travelers, operating from CLD isn't exactly the way to go. If they operate from PHX, they won't last long...they'd at least have a chance operating from AZA because the costs would be significantly lower and they could capitalize on a market G4 has so far avoided.
 
hawaiian717
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:38 am

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 17):
Except that the PHX-SoCal market is pretty saturated by the big guys. AZA-SoCal service is non-existent thus far, but the demand is certainly there.

Your argument makes no sense. You say the PHX-SoCal market is saturated but there's unserved demand from AZA. But this is true from the other side too. There's no service from CLD to Maricopa County, either. PHX is closer to AZA than SAN is to CLD; and SNA is twice as far from CLD. So if you're going to consider PHX and AZA to be distinct markets, then you can't consider SoCal to be a single markets; at the very least, consider CLD+SAN separate from LAX+SNA+LGB+BUR+ONT.
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:11 am

Quoting hawaiian717 (Reply 18):
Your argument makes no sense. You say the PHX-SoCal market is saturated but there's unserved demand from AZA. But this is true from the other side too. There's no service from CLD to Maricopa County, either. PHX is closer to AZA than SAN is to CLD; and SNA is twice as far from CLD. So if you're going to consider PHX and AZA to be distinct markets, then you can't consider SoCal to be a single markets; at the very least, consider CLD+SAN separate from LAX+SNA+LGB+BUR+ONT.

I think you may have missed my point. I was trying to make a point that CP serving AZA instead of PHX at least gives them a chance of making the route profitable by taking advantage of lower costs. The reason I think my "argument" makes sense is because if they serve PHX, they become a random carrier that no one has ever heard of, so they'll book WN or US or UA or AA or DL instead.. If they serve AZA, they have the ability to stand out like NK did when they started service, rather than just exist in obscurity like ZK does at PHX.

Whether or not my reasoning makes sense to you is irrelevant because it is pointless speculation. I'm not even convinced CLD will work in the capacity they desire to begin with. If they actually do attempt CLD-PHX, their loads will be dismal and they'll pull out in less than a year. CLD-AZA would give them a chance, in my opinion, to eventually make the route profitable. I'm not trying to armchair-CEO, I just know that they've got one hell of a hill to climb to make it work at PHX.
 
doug_or
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:05 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 19):
I think you may have missed my point. I was trying to make a point that CP serving AZA instead of PHX at least gives them a chance of making the route profitable by taking advantage of lower costs. The reason I think my "argument" makes sense is because if they serve PHX, they become a random carrier that no one has ever heard of, so they'll book WN or US or UA or AA or DL instead.. If they serve AZA, they have the ability to stand out like NK did when they started service, rather than just exist in obscurity like ZK does at PHX.

Completely disagree. They stand out now because they serve CLD instead of SAN. That's the hook. If they went from AZA-CLD they would be like Ryan Air charging high prices. Serving PHX gives more interline options and is most likely what people thing they're getting when the buy a ticket to the Phoenix area.
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catiii
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:26 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 4):
E70s have become quite popular on the (nearly hourly) DCA-ORD service and the IAD-IAH runs done by sUA.

Not sure what you mean. IAD-IAH is all mainline with the exception of the mid afternoon E145 (3.25 hours on that thing...shoot me).

DCA-ORD is all mainline with the exception of the first flight out in the AM, and the off-peak mid-morning flight.
 
SANFan
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:43 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 17):
Except that the PHX-SoCal market is pretty saturated by the big guys...Trying to compete against US, WN, UA, DL, and AA will not go well for a small start-up carrier with no brand recognition or loyalty.

SAN-PHX, on the other hand, is served by 2 cx -- WN and US. There's a healthy amount of capacity offered but I don't agree either with your lumping SAN/CLD in with LAX. I'm sure that some of the traffic from CLD currently goes to SNA or LAX to get to Arizona but once (if) CP Air gets airborne, the local market will emerge and WILL use the nonstops out of CLD.

And I certainly agree with those who feel that Sky Harbor would be the airport of choice for the corporate-heavy business that CP Air is expected to see.

(Slightly off-topic, I DO agree with you, 'devil, about SAN-AZA being a viable market and I remain confused that NK has not yet begun flying this market. Even though they seem to be having trouble getting a handle on AZA service, NK seems pretty solid at Lindbergh and the SAN-AZA market seems too viable to avoid.)

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 20):
Completely disagree. They stand out now because they serve CLD instead of SAN. That's the hook. If they went from AZA-CLD they would be like Ryan Air charging high prices. Serving PHX gives more interline options and is most likely what people thing they're getting when the buy a ticket to the Phoenix area.

  

bb
 
LAXintl
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:29 pm

These guys filed some additional material with the DOT including laying out their plans for fund raising.

Some notes:
o Trade name will be "CP Air"
o Has formally engaged Arkansas based investment advisers to help secure required DOT launch financing via sales of $11.52mil worth of shares.
o If successful, ownership of the company would be split 50% with Ted Vallas and 50% with the investors.
o Subsequently will seek to raise approximately $50 million in additional financing for ongoing capital and liqudity needs.
o FAA certification could take up to 180-days
o $6mil needed to fund company through remaining phases of certification
o Route structure will be solely focused on McClellan-Palomar Airport.
o Carrier will be a “specialty” or “niche” participant
o Will seek to compete by being the only service between two points, or the superior more convenient service.
o Attributes - F class at Y fare, 2x2 seating, WiFi, power ports, convenience of CLD over SAN
o Competing on price only is not a sufficient concept. Could never beat someone like Southwest in price war.
o Phase I -5 identified short-haul western cities - SJC, OAK, SMF, Vegas, Phoenix - amongst top 20 San Diego O&D markets
o Phase II - Markets like SLC, DEN, RNO, SEA, TUS plus Mexico
o Mexico appeal as it has high fares, limited service from SAN.
o Seeking solely local passengers, no connecting flow (eg Phoenix-CLD-Northern Cal)
o Expect cyclical and seasonal traffic shifts, so operating results will vary from quarter to quarter. Peak local demand March-May and July-Sept. Lowest demand Jan/Feb.
o Up to 5 E170s - with mixed business, economy config. Future phases could bring in larger E190.
o Maximize use of 3rd party contractors - call center, maintenance, ground handling, catering, IT services, etc.
o Incase 92-year old Ted Vallas death or disability, Vice Chairman Frank Goldberg would assume leadership.

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routeplanner
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:23 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
o Seeking solely local passengers, no connecting flow (eg Phoenix-CLD-Northern Cal)

This is certainly a brave move to expect only local traffic, with no connecting flow.

They are going to have to make this very attractive to Business Customers who are entrenched in Frequent Flyer Programs with airlines serving SAN.

Filling an E170 twice a day between those points (to attract same day high fare business customers they will need lift at least twice a day) to CLD or from CLD is being a little over the top.

I do wish them the best in their endeavor though.
 
PSAjet17
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:30 pm

I was just thinking today that it has been almost 3 months since we heard anything from California Pacific. Thanks for the update.

The other thing that came to mind is there was a Canadian Airline that used the name CPAir. It is now part of Air Canada. I wonder if Air Canada kept copyright and trademark on the term "CPAir" in the same way US Airways legal rights to the name PSA, the logos and even the smile?
 
LAXintl
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:17 pm

My biggest concern is      .

Are they going to find enough gullible folk to risk their money on such a thinly designed concept.

I already feel sorry for the dozen San Diego residents that have invested portions of their family trust with these guys last couple of years.

Like WSJ story a bit back, the industry has a 60% failure rate for upstarts within first 12-months, and 90% failure rate within 5-years.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
bjorn14
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:00 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 15):
but the ERJ 170 and 190 are by comparison rocket ships well suited to short runways.

EMB even created an SR variant which stands for Short Runway

CP should have bought a small carrier which already had an AOC and added the Ejets to the cert.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
F9Animal
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:09 pm

Hey.... The fact remains, the white flag has not been raised! Gotta give them credit, as they are in this fight to win. I really hope they get this airline off the ground!
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Wingtips56
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:37 pm

I still can't help wondering about the viability of having Carlsbad to/from ___ as their only marketplace. I doubt most people outside N. San Diego County know where it is, and people not from there but going to San Diego for business or vacation will want to go to SAN, not the distant suburbs. "Ooh Honey, lets take the kids and run off to Carlsbad!"

I just don't see 280 people a day traveling O/D only between SMF and CLD, for example, on the two round-trips. Yes it currently is an unserved market, but really .... that much traffic potential? Same for OAK, SJC and others?

I do wish them well, but I wouldn't invest my money in such a market strategy.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
 
802flyguy
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:33 pm

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 25):
he other thing that came to mind is there was a Canadian Airline that used the name CPAir. It is now part of Air Canada. I wonder if Air Canada kept copyright and trademark on the term "CPAir" in the same way US Airways legal rights to the name PSA, the logos and even the smile?

I am not a tradmark (or any other kind of) lawyer, but IIRC trademarks in the US expire after 10 years. No idea about Canadian law on the subject.

On the larger issue of when/if the carrier will ever take to the skies, I heard it frorm the parking shuttle driver who heard it from a flight attendant that California Pacific is waiting to codeshare agreement with Family Air to be worked out.  
 
GCT64
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:46 am

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 29):
I still can't help wondering about the viability of having Carlsbad to/from ___ as their only marketplace. I doubt most people outside N. San Diego County know where it is

I'm not at all sure about the commercial viability of CPAir but I'm from London (England), I do know where Carlsbad is, I was there on business last week(!) and it is time consuming to reach through LAX, SNA or SAN (I do realise it is connected to LAX by E120s but that is of marginal benefit/utility when you look at the time involved). There is a lot of business activity in that area and I think E170 service into Carlsbad on a commuter affiliate of AA/US (from PHX), UA (from DEN/SFO) or DL (from SLC) would be viable offering connections between Carlsbad and the rest of the country / World as well as getting local O&D. My guess is that PHX or SFO would be the most commercially viable.
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bennett123
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:02 am

IMO, the longer this lasts, the less likely that this airline will ever fly.

It makes the think of the periodic Rekkof threads.
 
bjorn14
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:51 pm

Who is farther along CalPac or PplEx? Who started first?
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sunking737
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:30 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 33):
Who is farther along CalPac or PplEx? Who started first?

CPAir. CP has one plane, PX has 4 737-400 when they bought Xtra Airways. Neither has flown any pax. Xtra is flying charters.
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bennett123
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:40 pm

Given that Ted Vallas is over 90, will he live long enough to see this airline fly.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:37 pm

This dream is being used to justify other development around Carlsbad.

Quote:
CARLSBAD — A North County developer plans to build two hotels catering to air travelers just east of McClellan-Palomar Airport in Carlsbad.

The Carlsbad Planning Commission signed off last week on the 133-room Holiday Inn and a 106-room Staybridge Suites proposed by Alps Innovation LLC of Solana Beach.
..snip..
The hotels are expected to primarily draw customers from an estimated 300,000 passengers who will pass through the airport next year when California Pacific Airlines is scheduled to begin operations.
..snip..
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/...d-airport-hotels-proposed-airline/

.
Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 29):
"Ooh Honey, lets take the kids and run off to Carlsbad!"

They think it will be more like:
"Hey kids we're flying to Carlsbad and going to LEGOLAND for the weekend!"  

[Edited 2013-08-12 10:38:40]
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:52 pm

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 29):
I still can't help wondering about the viability of having Carlsbad to/from ___ as their only marketplace. I doubt most people outside N. San Diego County know where it is, and people not from there but going to San Diego for business or vacation will want to go to SAN, not the distant suburbs. "Ooh Honey, lets take the kids and run off to Carlsbad!"

Or how about "Let's go uphill to San Marcos and outlet-mall shop," or "Let's go over to Temecula and winery hop," or "Let's go over to the Doubletree Golf Resort at Las Penasquitas?"
 
AirCalSNA
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:18 pm

Quoting 802flyguy (Reply 30):
I am not a tradmark (or any other kind of) lawyer, but IIRC trademarks in the US expire after 10 years. No idea about Canadian law on the subject.

Trademarks never expire, although they might be challenged in court on the basis that they have lost their uniqueness ... which is why companies fight their trademarks being used as generic terms for a type of product (e.g., Kleenex).
 
ridgid727
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:25 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 33):
Who is farther along CalPac or PplEx?

PeopleExpress at least has an operating certificate acquired through their acquisition of Xtra Airways. It is my understanding they are working on the lease of 14 737-400s owned by Qantas or some other airline based in the South Pacific.
 
ual747den
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RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:23 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 1):

The rumor has it that this carrier, if they get their certificate, wants to bid on regional flying for airlines like United. If they succeed, get their certificate, and win the flying from Majors...it is really going to cause big problems at the existing regionals, and you will probably see a couple of more fold up in the next few years.

Of course...that is a big if as well.

I don't know where you heard this rumor but you can be sure that it is 100% false. There is NO plan for this to happen at all within the airline.

Although this will not happen with this paper airline I would like to know more about why you think that such an operation could cause such big problems for the existing regional airlines? It would take such a MAJOR amount of investment without much return that I can't see any regional worrying about anything like this happening. There are just so many reasons that a new start-up regional couldn't work that I don't see it ever really happening unless there were some major changes in the sector. I think that it would be much more likely to see airlines take back flying the smaller regional aircraft before a new start-up could cause any major problems for one of the major regional airlines.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 35):
Given that Ted Vallas is over 90, will he live long enough to see this airline fly.

No way, you and I however won't live long enough either. I believe his age is exactly why this mess has gone on as long as it has. He is old, rich, and bored. He's going to die soon so throwing money into a burning pit isn't really a big deal for him. It's providing him with something to do that he obviously enjoys so as long as he has the money I guess he should be allowed to throw it away however I really hope that the other "investors" are in the same kind of situation where they have extra money to throw away and none of them are really expecting to see a return because that will never happen. This paper airline has employed lots of people and has even tried to recruit top level people from other airlines which they would never even need if the airline WAS going to fly, which I guess for some people has been helpful and paid the bills for a while so that is another good thing that has come of this mess. The downside to that is I believe that some of these employees actually believe that this airline will one day fly therefore they will have continued employment which as I've been saying is FAR from reality.

I think other times that I have posted about this "airline" I have ended with something that says that I hope I'm wrong and would like to see it get off the ground but it doesn't look good. Now there is no need for that, this "airline" has no chance of ever selling a ticket it's a done deal at this point. I feel like the government might as well continue to give this guy his extensions and let him waste his money as he sees fit but I hope the employees understand whats happening and are looking for something else....
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:56 am

Imo, PeoplExpress took the much more expedient path and went out to purchase and airline and certificate.

A few tweaks here and there, and you have a ready to go operation.

In the mean time, our friends at CP Air having to reinvent the wheel from scratch while giving birth to a new AOC.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
PHX787
Posts: 7881
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:23 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 26):
My biggest concern is $ .

That too is a concern for me especially since they're limiting themselves big time...

Quoting routeplanner (Reply 24):
This is certainly a brave move to expect only local traffic, with no connecting flow.

Well look at the example LAXintl gave....there's LOTS of traffic from PHX to the SoCal area. That may fill that plane to the brim.
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drmlnr1
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:16 pm

RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:28 am

I'd invest in them in a heartbeat. I'd even work for them. CP Air will get off the ground by end of 2014
Flying is relaxing!
 
bennett123
Posts: 7460
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:18 am

Do you expect it to take another 18 months.

Do they have the cash to last to take point and beyond.
 
SANFan
Posts: 3694
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:51 am

And here's an article in the UT today:
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/...ine-carlsbad-sequestration-vallas/

Things are certainly not looking any better right now for Ted and his group... Quote from this article:

Quote:
The FAA gave California Pacific a Sept. 13 deadline to resubmit materials. If that date passes, the FAA will officially terminate the certification effort.

bb
 
PHX787
Posts: 7881
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:36 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 45):
Things are certainly not looking any better right now for Ted and his group... Quote from this article:

Well the 13th of the next month is when we know if that pretty little bugger at DVT will have a home or not...
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ual747den
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:29 pm

RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:24 am

Quoting drmlnr1 (Reply 43):
I'd invest in them in a heartbeat. I'd even work for them. CP Air will get off the ground by end of 2014

I would imagine that statement is easy for you to make because you are very young and don't understand the industry. The people at CP are looking hard for money so if you actually have money to invest in them I suggest you contact them and let them know that you are willing to throw money away with them. They are also constantly looking for people to work for them so if you have some skills in the industry give them a call. I would imagine that because of your age you can offer only front line type of services to this airline and again it will never get to the point where they need those kinds of employees so your safe! Ted has been working on getting this airline up and running since you were in high or even middle school and so far it's just been money thrown away, there has been mistake after mistake made in the process and that's still not changing so no this airline will never fly.

It's also important to note that even if the airline could get in the air, which it won't, their business plan is very flawed. If you look back a few years you will see that ExpressJet tried to run an airline that did basically what CP wants to do but they did it on a much larger more feasible scale with huge financial backing and it still didn't work out. If they couldn't make it work what makes you think that Ted can do it using only 1 or 2 aircraft with a cash strapped company?
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5008
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:44 am

Quoting ual747den (Reply 47):
If you look back a few years you will see that ExpressJet tried to run an airline that did basically what CP wants to do but they did it on a much larger more feasible scale with huge financial backing and it still didn't work out.

While ExpressJet's model was pretty flawed, they really didn't have many options due to the contractual language that CO gave them in regards to the leased aircraft. If they had leased the airplanes in their own name, then they probably could've done a MUCH better job at it, IMHO.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: California Pacific Still Trying...

Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:30 pm

Pretty damming comments from the FAA.

So much for the advisers, and assembled management team if they made so errors to end up failing 4 of the 9 reviewed sections entirely.
Also whats citing incorrect material like Hawaii tour operator regulations? Some seems to have gotten ahead of themselves with the copy/pasting of manuals.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California