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JerseyFlyer
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New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:59 pm

Is this likely to be any more than a de-rated A330?

"Leahy said Airbus was working on a regional version of the A330 designed for shorter trips in high-density markets like Southeast Asia, mirroring plans for a similar regional version for the A350 first reported by Reuters last month.

A decision on whether to develop the new A330 version is expected before the end of the year, Leahy said."

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/...3-order-target-to-over-1-000-jets/
 
hotplane
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:39 pm

Similar roll to the A300/A310, presumably?
?
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:45 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Thread starter):
Is this likely to be any more than a de-rated A330?

De-rated engine options are already available, it must be something else.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
tortugamon
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:48 pm

Talk about burying the lede. Interesting news. I wonder if this will be a derated version like the A350 regional. I have a hard time seeing how a regional A330 could be more efficient than an A350 on the same route though.

tortugamon
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:11 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Thread starter):
regional version for the A350 first reported by Reuters last month

First? Reuters should better check their facts.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...for-medium-haul-operations-224656/

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 3):
I wonder if this will be a derated version like the A350 regional.

De-rated A330 engine options are already available.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 3):
I have a hard time seeing how a regional A330 could be more efficient than an A350 on the same route though.

It cant't. Besides, the A330 is already optimized for those regional routes. The article says "designed for shorter trips in high-density markets", that sounds more like an A350-800 optimized for 6000nm routes in a high-density configuration. But why calling it a "regional A330"?
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
ghifty
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:13 pm

This sounds a lot like the now-cancelled 787-3?
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tortugamon
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:45 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 4):
But why calling it a "regional A330"?

Maybe a smaller wing and removal of fuel tanks. Undo many of the MTOW improvements of the past 15 years... I would think that they could not change the MLG too much because even if it is less weight it will have more cycles. Maybe he was talking about the regional A350 and the reporter got it wrong but it just does not fit.

tortugamon
 
astuteman
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 6):
Maybe a smaller wing and removal of fuel tanks

IMO the smaller wing is what killed the 787-3

Rgds
 
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solnabo
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:51 pm

Found this on A´s website:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvaN17HJLSo

Cheers   
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KarelXWB
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:04 pm

Quoting ghifty (Reply 5):
This sounds a lot like the now-cancelled 787-3?

It sounds more like a new A330 family member.

Quoting solnabo (Reply 8):
Found this on A´s website:

I'm surprised to see how many investments they make annually for the A330 program:



[Edited 2013-07-19 11:06:04]
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
tortugamon
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:14 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 7):
IMO the smaller wing is what killed the 787-3

Little doubt about it but some Asian customers did want it. It didn't pencil out but it does not mean that there is not a concept there. Anyway, I am grasping at straws because I really do not see how they are going to do this successfully. You have any ideas on how it could work? Wish them luck.

tortugamon
 
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Polot
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:39 pm

I don't really see how they could make the wing smaller. Boeing did it with the 783 by removing the raked wingtips and using blended winglets instead. I don't really see Airbus removing the winglets (which wouldn't make a dramtic difference in the wing size anyways) and can't imagine them spending money to give the A330 a new smaller wing; wings are expensive.



[Edited 2013-07-19 13:40:54]
 
Ruscoe
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:43 pm

IMO the 350 has too much structure and to be a good regional aircraft. My impression is that Airbus would be looking at a much shorter range, than would make the 350 clearly the preferred option.

The 330 has grown in MTOW, payload and range over the years.

Airbus could keep all the aerodynamic, engine, software and all the other improvements, but limit range, and remove a lot of weight.

I have not studied the actual figures, but for an existing 330 operator it may be attractive,

Ruscoe
 
astuteman
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:49 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 10):
Anyway, I am grasping at straws because I really do not see how they are going to do this successfully. You have any ideas on how it could work? Wish them luck

aside from a paper de-rate? no, I don't really know what they might do.

I can think of some things they could do perhaps, like lightening the wing to take out the "A340 weight" supposedly in there. They could perhaps look at an improved winglet/sharklet.
But they're things that would apply across the range anyway, bringing us back to a paper de-rate.

Rgds

[Edited 2013-07-19 13:58:54]
 
747megatop
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:55 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Thread starter):
"Leahy said Airbus was working on a regional version of the A330 designed for shorter trips in high-density markets like Southeast Asia, mirroring plans for a similar regional version for the A350 first reported by Reuters last month.

If flights lasting between 1.5 hours and 2.5 hours also qualify as "shorter trips" then the Regional version of the A-330 will probably make sense in the high density domestic segments like BOM - DEL; BOM - BLR; DEL - BLR; DEL - MAA and be very successful. Question is how many airlines will in India though will jump at this and opt for lower frequency larger planes (regional A 330) VERSUS higher frequency with smaller planes for these shorter regional/domestic routes.
 
tortugamon
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:11 pm

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 12):
but limit range, and remove a lot of weight.

How? Where specifically?

Quoting astuteman (Reply 13):
like lightening the wing to take out the "A340 weight" supposedly in there.

I thought they already did that. Guess not, that could be it.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 14):
f flights lasting between 1.5 hours and 2.5 hours

I think these type of flights would still be cheaper to operate on narrow body aircraft and its not like these routes are heavily slot restricted.

tortugamon
 
747megatop
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:34 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 15):
its not like these routes are heavily slot restricted

According to these, the airports seem to be slot restricted -

1) http://civilaviation.gov.in/cs/group...nts/newsandupdates/moca_001396.pdf (search for "Slot Allocation Policy")

2) http://www.acukwik.com/AirportInfo/VIDP ; in that web page it has -> Slots Required: Yes

Aren't they? And, there is a lot of congestion in BOM; with BOM - DEL figuring in the top 10 or 15 busiest routes in the world. Hence the question.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:46 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 6):
Maybe a smaller wing and removal of fuel tanks. Undo many of the MTOW improvements of the past 15 years... I would think that they could not change the MLG too much because even if it is less weight it will have more cycles. Maybe he was talking about the regional A350 and the reporter got it wrong but it just does not fit.

tortugamon

Maybe a new wing, lighter not smaller. New wing box ( how do you remove the tank without redesigning the wing box ), removal of excessive weight due to common structures with the A 340 like the middle LG bay.

I do not see the sense in making the wing smaller, the next gate size down is code D with 52 m or less and that would be a 8 m reduction in wing span.

[Edited 2013-07-19 14:55:32]
 
BD338
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:23 pm

Now this is the sort of regional jet I could get used to flying on  
 
tortugamon
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:26 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 16):
Aren't they? And, there is a lot of congestion in BOM; with BOM - DEL figuring in the top 10 or 15 busiest routes in the world. Hence the question.

Terminal 3 should be able to handle all traffic by itself (let alone the other Domestic terminal) and the three long run ways that allow for simultaneous landings since last year should be enough for an airport that does not handle more passengers than LGW. I thought BOM had an expansion in place that would alleviate the problems in a year or two.

I once took a 747 with about 15 people on board from ATQ to DEL so I know they are open to using widebody aircraft on short domestic roues.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 17):
Maybe a new wing, lighter not smaller. New wing box ( how do you remove the tank without redesigning the wing box ), removal of excessive weight due to common structures with the A 340 like the middle LG bay.

Sounds like an A330X   Expensive.


tortugamon
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:43 pm

Can the A330 be stretched?

Perhaps this is an A330-400, lengthened but without increasing MTOW. Would that be competetive on short intra-asia markets as a 773 replacement?
 
Oykie
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:28 pm

Interesting comment from Leahy. Since we Are only speculating at this time, could this be an oportunity for PW to get the GTF on a widebody airplane?  
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
mjoelnir
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:50 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 20):
Can the A330 be stretched?

Perhaps this is an A330-400, lengthened but without increasing MTOW. Would that be competetive on short intra-asia markets as a 773 replacement?

I thing there are enough frames battling to replace the B 777-300, I was rather thinking about downsizing, A 330-200 size or smaller with a reduced OEF and MTOW.
 
SelseyBill
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:18 am

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 22):
I was rather thinking about downsizing, A 330-200 size or smaller with a reduced OEF and MTOW

Me too. How about a nice cheap lightened Tianjin built A330-100NEO nicely sitting between the A321 and A358 ?

Could potentially chew away at some B788 business in Asia.
 
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Stitch
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:23 am

Well the 787-10 is going to put some serious hurt on the A330-300, so this could be an attempt to make it more appealing (ala Boeing with the 777X against the A350).
 
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:36 am

Quoting BD338 (Reply 18):
Now this is the sort of regional jet I could get used to flying on  

So true. Only been on a few regional widebody flights, but they are fun. MEL-SYD on 767, ZRH-GVA on MD11, ITM-NRT on 744D.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
tortugamon
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:00 am

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 20):
Perhaps this is an A330-400, lengthened but without increasing MTOW. Would that be competetive on short intra-asia markets as a 773 replacement?

It would take more than a simple stretch to get into 773 territory.

I don't think Airbus will want to launch something that competes with 359/351. Its under 300 seats that currently needs attention IMO. Next decade, the 300-400 seat market will already have twice as many aircraft as it did last decade.

tortugamon
 
roseflyer
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:30 am

I seem to remember a thread about this right after the 787-10 was launched. Such a plane makes sense since I am sure a few airlines use A330s on short regional routes and don't need the high gross weights. Additionally some systems that are cycle dependent can be strengthened to accommodate the high cycle ratio that typically only narrowbodies need. If it is a small change then I see no reason for airbus to not offer a plane to airlines like CX EL SQ etc
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ghifty
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:32 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 9):
It sounds more like a new A330 family member.

Indeed. I meant to put something along the lines of this sounds like what the 787-3 was to the 787 family, but realise that what I put reads considerably different.
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ferpe
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:55 am

It is an interesting comment by Lehay and quite challangning to ponder what they can do. Looking from the airlines perspective they would like to have:

- better CASM

- less maintenace

- longer frame and engine life


Looking at them in order and trying to do minimal changes (which I am convinced we are talking about for a 330) it could be:

CASM
Pack more pax into the existing frame. The present cabin options are arranged for mid to long haul. A short haul cabin could reduce galley space and increase density to accommodate more pax to come closer to a 787-10. What could be done I leave to the experts......but could ideas be taken from the A320 like spaceflex?

Less maintenace
Very much what Roseflyer discussed, are there systems that could be improved when doing higher cycles so that turnarounds goes faster with less required work and less maintenance actions?

Longer frame and engine life
A short haul version certainly will have a MTOW derate, this should enable higher cycles before checks/rebuilds and also longer fatigue life. Could the FBW software be further tuned for better load alleviation given the shorter hops at lower weights?

I guess there are a number of things one can do before touching things like wings etc that require major re-certification.
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panais
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:09 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 9):

There is an issue with the investment in the A330 so far and is that it was to make it as attractive to potential B787 customers with more range, higher MTOW, etc. Now, the investment needs to go the other way.
The only way to really go Regional is to take the A300 components such as wings, landing gear, etc and apply them to the A330. But this is a new plane. Unless there is something new in engine performance of the existing engines with a massive weight reduction.
 
gigneil
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:49 am

The word on the street is an A350 regional. Not an A330.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 9):
I'm surprised to see how many investments they make annually for the A330 program:

150 million euros on a 10 billion airplane ain't much.


NS
 
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sassiciai
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:51 am

Quoting ferpe (Reply 29):
Looking from the airlines perspective they would like to have:

- better CASM

- less maintenace

- longer frame and engine life

I think you are right.

Recently, Airbus delivered to Cebu Pacific its first A330, seating 439 pax in an all-Y 9-across seating. Perhaps this triggered Airbus into thinking about "regional".

I wonder what can be done (if anything is required) to shorten turn-around times, and to speed up boarding of 400+ pax

There are lots of sectors flown by SQ (to name but one of many Asian carriers) using wide-body equipment on sub 3 hour routes. But SQ and 439 pax? Don't think so
 
astuteman
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:44 am

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 32):
Recently, Airbus delivered to Cebu Pacific its first A330, seating 439 pax in an all-Y 9-across seating. Perhaps this triggered Airbus into thinking about "regional".

It's interesting to speculate at which point the drive for ever greater numbers of seats in airframes will eventually see 16.5" seats being used in standard airline configuration.
The trend for an ever increasing percentage of 777's to be 10-across 17" seats suggests it might be with us one day...

Rgds
 
ktachiya
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:58 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 14):

If flights lasting between 1.5 hours and 2.5 hours also qualify as "shorter trips" then the Regional version of the A-330

Skymark might want these variants for their domestic A333 which will be delivered early next year!!! Sounds perfect for routings such as HND-FUK or HND-CTS.
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AAMDanny
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:38 am

I think it would sell really well for the intra-Asia carriers, and maybe a couple of other hot spots around the world.

cleaver re-configuration of Galleys, Lavatories and 9-abreast seating arrangement can create a lot of extra revenue seats.

I wonder if the Lower Deck Lavatory (LDL) option (which AFAIK has only been taken up by AIH (which then became MYT then to TCX) could help free up some extra space for more seats up on the main deck?
 
Oykie
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:51 am

Quoting ferpe (Reply 29):
better CASM

How can an A330 get better CASM that will only benefit regional flights? I remember redning that the Thomas Cook A321 and their A321 offers the same fuelburn pr passenger on trips from Scandinavia to Canary Islands. The A330 entering the A321 territory will need to have a huge improvement me think. At least engines, frame and number of cycles needs to be optimized for short haul.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 31):
The word on the street is an A350 regional. Not an A330.

This would be in line with what have been reported in press earlier. But I see several newspapers are reporting this. Also ATWonline. They usually know the difference between an A330 and A350. Did they misquote Leahy or is he sending this to the rumormill intentionally?

[Edited 2013-07-20 02:53:06]
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
Geo772
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:32 am

The changes will certainly extend beyond a derate of the engines. The MTOW will be reduced significantly, however the MZFW will stay roughly the same. Enroute charges are based on MTOW so there will be a saving made there.
As far as other modifications I'd expect there to be a simplification of the fuel system and possibly some changes to the wing to compensate for the reduced fuel load (thinking wing load alleviation). The THS tank would almost certainly go with the removal of all the associated pipework and electrics.
The gear might well be slightly strengthened to cope with the higher number of cycles (think 747-400D).
There would most likely be a reduction in water and toilet tank sizes (more weight reduction).
There would be no provision made for crew rest (not required due short sectors).
As previously mentioned a cabin optimised for 9 abreast seating along with a simplified galley architecture.
Modification of the Flight Management and Flight Control systems to be optimised for lower TOW.
And the list could go on...
Obviously these are all hypothetical.
Flown on A300B4/600,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343,B727,B732/3/4/5/6/7/8,B741/2/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772/3,DC10,L1011-200,VC10,MD80,
 
mjoelnir
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:36 am

The A 330 is a iteration of the A 300/310.

Airbus could go for downsizing, fuselage A 300 size, MLG A 300 size, new wing, derated A 330 engines.
OEW ca. 90 t, MTOW ca 175 t, range ca 5,000 nm.

An A 330-100, perhaps good for 300 sales.

We can talk about low CASM, but I would think about a reduced price of the frame compared to A 330, B 787, A 350.

In this range airlines could look for low investment cost rather than lowest fuel burn
 
trex8
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:38 pm

IIRC from previous tech threads the center tank is only present on 332 and 340s not the present 333s. Only the 242 ton A333 for delivery in 2015 will have the tank. Not sure how much weight you will save there.
 
SFOJFK
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:39 pm

Would the new AA get some to bring back the old A300 lift to the Caribbean and Central America?
 
mjoelnir
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:54 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 39):
IIRC from previous tech threads the center tank is only present on 332 and 340s not the present 333s. Only the 242 ton A333 for delivery in 2015 will have the tank. Not sure how much weight you will save there.

The tank is there on all A 330, it is part of the wing box, it was just not used or enabled for the older A 330-300 as she could not use it anyway due to weight restrictions.

I do not know how much or if there is weight to save with a new wing box and a redesign around it, but an A 330 "light" would neither need the tank nor the space for the extra middle main landing gear of the A 340.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:58 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 29):
Pack more pax into the existing frame.

There are a few 9Y A330s flying, but seats are tight.

I seem to recall that the Mk 1 A350 concept included thinner sidewalls to make 9Y more comfortable. Similar to what Boeing are doing for their 777X. This may represent "low hanging fruit" for a regional A330 given the short sector lengths envisaged.
 
CiC
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:18 pm

Maybe Lufthansa has some stake in the discussion?

They definitively miss the A300 capacity, even the cramped A321 with the 200seat-config is not enaugh in peak hours on FRA-TXL, FRA-LHR, FRA-HAM, FRA-MUC etc.
And the AB3 was much much more comfortable than the crampy 321...

Maybe they'll be launch customer for a A300-like 330, incl. same cockpit design as the 319/320/321 to have the option Pilots can fly all these types???
Would work!
 
astuteman
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:21 pm

Quoting oykie (Reply 36):
How can an A330 get better CASM that will only benefit regional flights?

A 400 - 440 seat 9-abreast A333 would have pretty impressive CASM, plus the ability to reach WAY further than an A321 ever will, even a NEO.

The more I think about it, sculpting the linings like the 777X is going to do for that extra couple of inches that might make the seat width slightly more palatable, reducing galley sizes, removing redundant fuel tanking systems for those shorter ranges, etc would produce a plane with a lot of capacity/revenue generation over sectors up to about 4 500Nm

Limiting it to about 225t MTOW (say) will still give you the current MSP out to 4 000Nm ESAD, and 440 pax capability out to about 5 000Nm, and the neck end of 27t lower MTOW than the 787-9, with at least payload parity, if not advantage, over those ranges.

Throw in a percent or so SFC and percent or so aero (both promised for 2015)
It could work, I guess.
And wouldn't threaten the A350 so much either

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 38):
An A 330-100

I don't see the concept really working well on any other than the A333 to be honest.

I think anything smaller gives up too much capacity advantage relative to say an A321NEO for little gain in CASM

Would be cool to see the concept applied to an A330-400 "simple stretch"  

Rgds
 
trex8
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:07 pm

Per their tech description on their website A offers today 184 or 212 tonne MTOW variants with 164 MZFW and 205/209 MTOW with 172 t MZFW or 217 MTOW with 169/17MZFW

Change the inner cabin walls as some say and reduce galley space and maybe beef up some systems for higher cycles and you are done!
 
astuteman
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RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:58 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 45):
Per their tech description on their website A offers today 184 or 212 tonne MTOW variants with 164 MZFW and 205/209 MTOW with 172 t MZFW or 217 MTOW with 169/17MZFW

Change the inner cabin walls as some say and reduce galley space and maybe beef up some systems for higher cycles and you are done!

I still like the idea of an A330 some 1-2 rows longer than the 787-10 but as a simple stretch of the A330-300 - no other change unless it absolutely needs it, besides the simplification of any systems not required for the range it would have, and the cabin wall scalloping we discussed.

I think that would be pretty cool  

Rgds
 
Someone83
Posts: 3104
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:05 pm

While not impossible, I'm still struggling to se what Airbus can do which is cheap and fast enough to offer enough differencies from the current A330s to offer this as a regional version with low enough cost. As just, just the small incremental MTOW increases takes a few years to implement
 
trex8
Posts: 4657
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:08 pm

Would it be more expensive to recertify a simple stretch or a new cabin interior?
 
tortugamon
Posts: 6726
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:14 pm

RE: New "Regional" A330 Version In The Works

Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:23 pm

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 32):
Recently, Airbus delivered to Cebu Pacific its first A330, seating 439 pax in an all-Y 9-across seating.

ANA puts 335 on their 787-8s but if it was converted to all economy it should easily fit 15 more seats (1 more row of Y and 6 more seats from two rows of converted J with 20" of pitch to spare). Adding 6m to the -9 should get you to approximately 422 seats or 14 seats less than Cebu (I think it had 436 seats not 439?). The 788 max seating is 381 so that would need to change for the 789. The A342/A346 had the lower deck option for lavatories so I see no reason why the A330 could not do the same thing and I suspect the 789 won't go that direction so that could add to the seat advantage. Slimming galleys on the like should be parity. 3%-6% capacity difference with both at 9Y which makes sense as there is only 1m difference in the cabin length.

16.5" seat vs 17.3" but that difference could shrink if they do the sculpting. Boeing says they are getting 4" on the 777X and if Airbus could do something similar that would get them very close to a very respectable 17" seat.

The A330 burns approximately 18% more fuel than the 789 on the same mission. If all of the changes noted in posts above are incorporated how much trip fuel can the A330 be reduced by? There is about $21 Million in list price differences and availability would also give the A330 a real advantage.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 46):
I still like the idea of an A330 some 1-2 rows longer than the 787-10 but as a simple stretch of the A330-300

That would mean that the 789, A359, 787-10, A351, 778, 779 all new frames and all within 20% capacity difference from a hypothetical A334. I personally don't see it even if it would be the best thing for A330 economics.

edit: I recognize that the stated fuel burn difference should be less on the shorter missions that are relevant to this hypothetical regional model.


tortugamon

[Edited 2013-07-20 11:00:21]

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