Fiedman
Topic Author
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2001 2:49 pm

Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:44 am

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Shows/ID/2397825667/

it was 30 years ago today that AC 134 made an emergency landing at Gimli, Manitoba. According to this CBC feature that aired last night the aircraft was recently attempted to be auctioned off but no bidders bid for the aircraft. One hope was that someone could buy the aircraft and relocate it to Gimli.
Westjet - Canada's National Low-fare Airline
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:20 am

That was one of the few miracles of aviation, that needs to be celebrated.......
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
AC_B777
Posts: 726
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 5:15 am

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:48 am

Quoting Fiedman (Thread starter):
it was 30 years ago today that AC 134

It was flt 143......
In life, some days you are the bug..... some days you are the windshield!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12423
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:38 am

What could have been a terrible disaster turned out to be the 'miracle on the prairie', due to the skill of the pilots, that one of them knew of the former RCAF base at Gimli and some luck. It also led to improvements in procedures to make sure the right amount of fuel was put on when using different measuring systems.

One question I have is why did the nose gear collapse upon landing ?
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 3375
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:55 am

Wow, that is a very well-done piece by the CBC. Thanks for sharing it!
 
RGFC
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:38 am

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:21 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
One question I have is why did the nose gear collapse upon landing ?

As far as I remember the nose gear didn't fully extend: that's why it 'collapsed' upon landing (there was actually no proper nose 'gear')
 
MAN2SIN2BKK
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:53 am

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:25 pm

Very good programme; thanks for sharing it Fiedman
 
markalot
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:07 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:47 pm

Really glad I watched that, thanks for sharing the link!
M a r k
 
travelavnut
Posts: 1327
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 1:35 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:53 pm

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 4):
Wow, that is a very well-done piece by the CBC. Thanks for sharing it!

Indeed, nice piece by CBC! Thanks for sharing OP.
Live From Amsterdam!
 
User avatar
Quantos
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:29 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:55 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):

As RGFC said, the gear wasn't fully extended, because there was no hydraulics to lock it in place. They were dropped only by gravity IIRC.
Quantos,

I maintain the Bombardier C Series Aircraft Status sheet: https://goo.gl/HZshto
Feel free to comment on the sheet with any improvement suggestions and data update requests! Thanks to Paolo92 for his advice!
 
Kaiarahi
Posts: 1807
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:55 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:24 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
What could have been a terrible disaster turned out to be the 'miracle on the prairie', due to the skill of the pilots, that one of them knew of the former RCAF base at Gimli and some luck.

And the PIC (Bob Pearson) was a gliding instructor at a former WWII airbase near Hawkesbury, ON and was used to flying using steam gauges (the EFIS shut down). I was lucky enough to jumpseat with him on a LHR-YMX flight a couple of years after Gimli and got a first-hand account.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7203
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:10 pm

Never did get to fly on her  

Very sad that Air Canada or the Government of Canada is showing such little respect or interest in preserving such a great piece of Canadian History.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19046
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:02 pm

Quoting AC_B777 (Reply 2):
Quoting Fiedman (Thread starter):
it was 30 years ago today that AC 134

It was flt 143......

And, 30 years later, AC143 still operates YOW-YEG at about the same times as in 1983, except today it's an Embraer 190.
 
soon7x7
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:53 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 11):

Actually Boeing should preserve it. As well as an aviation Historic moment, it serves well the museum and demonstrates the robustness of Boeing Engineering, just like Grumman , "The Ironworks."
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3716
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:57 pm

Was there not a "made-for-tv" movie of this back in the late 80s/early 90s?
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
beechnut
Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:11 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 10):
And the PIC (Bob Pearson) was a gliding instructor at a former WWII airbase near Hawkesbury, ON and was used to flying using steam gauges (the EFIS shut down). I was lucky enough to jumpseat with him on a LHR-YMX flight a couple of years after Gimli and got a first-hand account.

I'm a native of Hawkesbury ON. I met Capt. Pearson on a YVR-YYZ flight many years ago when flying on business (about 10 or so years after the incident).

He is a true gentleman, and a great pilot!

I've also flown on C-GAUN (tail 604) on several occasions.

Beech
 
soon7x7
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:17 pm

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 14):

Yes, their was...
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3716
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:26 pm

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 16):
Yes, their was...

Title......name.....?
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19046
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:30 pm

 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 13988
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:57 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
What could have been a terrible disaster turned out to be the 'miracle on the prairie', due to the skill of the pilots, that one of them knew of the former RCAF base at Gimli and some luck.

... and ...

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 10):

And the PIC (Bob Pearson) was a gliding instructor

... as was Sully Sullenberger, the PIC for the 'Miracle on the Hudson' ...

Maybe I'm biased, but IMHO glider piloting sure does teach basic airmanship very well.

I was told that the Boeing test pilot at the controls of the 777 in the well known videos of its cross wind landing limits test was a former student of one of my CFIGs...
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3716
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:14 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
Title......name.....?
http://airodyssey.net/1998/07/01/movie-flt174/

Thanks Viscount.
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
cytz_pilot
Posts: 389
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 1999 3:34 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:10 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 11):
Very sad that Air Canada or the Government of Canada is showing such little respect or interest in preserving such a great piece of Canadian History.

I don't disagree with you, but I question whether either of those bodies are eager to show off the Gimli Glider as some kind of national trophy. The fact that the aircraft took off with insufficient fuel was a huge f*ckup by Air Canada, as a result of confusion over the metric system switchover (government-mandated). I know that's overly simplified, but perhaps the airline and the government would rather just let this one slide.
 
qblue
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:47 am

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:44 am

For a while I would see CGAUN at YVR along with Air Transat CGITS I think, both gliders. But one would be coming in and the other outbound, could never get a picture with the two together.
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:45 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 1):
That was one of the few miracles of aviation, that needs to be celebrated.......

More like an averted disaster, not a miracle. Not an event to be celebrated. Acknowledged maybe, when in a fit of Canadiana trivia. But celebrated? No......

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 13):
Actually Boeing should preserve it.

Why Boeing? How is this in the interests of Boeing shareholders?

It seems no one is willing to pony up the $ to preserve this former government-owned asset. Time to dismantle this unwanted early model 762.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19046
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:56 am

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 23):
It seems no one is willing to pony up the $ to preserve this former government-owned asset.

It was owned by AC, not the government. I assume you're referring to AC still being government-owned when that aircraft was delivered but most of its many years of service with AC were after AC was privatized.

[Edited 2013-07-23 18:59:21]

[Edited 2013-07-23 18:59:54]
 
akelley728
Posts: 1965
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 1999 12:35 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:32 am

Great video, thanks for sharing!
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 4979
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:53 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
One question I have is why did the nose gear collapse upon landing ?
Quoting RGFC (Reply 5):
As far as I remember the nose gear didn't fully extend: that's why it 'collapsed' upon landing (there was actually no proper nose 'gear')
Quoting Quantos (Reply 9):
As RGFC said, the gear wasn't fully extended, because there was no hydraulics to lock it in place. They were dropped only by gravity IIRC.

Without full hydraulics, an Alternate Gear Extension had to be performed.

This is done electrically, and the crew "forgot" that it takes about 4 times longer than a hydraulic extension, and it never fully extended in time.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:37 am

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 23):
More like an averted disaster, not a miracle. Not an event to be celebrated. Acknowledged maybe, when in a fit of Canadiana trivia. But celebrated? No......

Considering how and where they landed....Im sure many will be celebrating......
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
tymnbalewne
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:06 am

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:35 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 26):
Without full hydraulics, an Alternate Gear Extension had to be performed.

This is done electrically, and the crew "forgot" that it takes about 4 times longer than a hydraulic extension, and it never fully extended in time.

My understanding is that the nose gear's failure to lock was beneficial is that the nose of the aircraft provided the friction with which to stop the aircraft.
Dewmanair...begins with Dew
 
soon7x7
Posts: 2267
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 10:51 am

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:27 am

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 23):
Why Boeing? How is this in the interests of Boeing shareholders?

Then scrap it!...why should Boeings museum keep anything ?
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2537
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:18 pm

Quite disappointing AC trying to distance itself much as possible from the incident. No honor or recognition by AC to Captain Pearson for preventing disaster. Guess 1983 was a bad year for AC (DC-9 fire in CVG) and they would rather forget that year.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
trnswrld
Posts: 1071
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 2:19 am

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:44 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 23):


More like an averted disaster, not a miracle. Not an event to be celebrated. Acknowledged maybe, when in a fit of Canadiana trivia. But celebrated? No......

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 13):
Actually Boeing should preserve it.

Why Boeing? How is this in the interests of Boeing shareholders?

It seems no one is willing to pony up the $ to preserve this former government-owned asset. Time to dismantle this unwanted early model 762.


Ugh, some people are just so negative. I would swear by reading your posts I would think you hated aviation. I mean I understand what your saying and all, but come on you gotta admit that even though this entire issue was human error, the pilots did manage to land a 767 with no power is pretty awesome....and at an airport, sorta  
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19046
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:22 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 30):
Quite disappointing AC trying to distance itself much as possible from the incident.

Both Gimli glider pilots were invited to travel on the aircraft's final retirement flight to the desert in January 2008. A couple of the original cabin crew were also aboard. The flight operated YUL-TUS (to clear customs)-MHV. Made a low flypast at YUL after departure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MHy6yy3Z00

There was a photo somewhere of the crew in the cockpit before departure but I can't find it now.

[Edited 2013-07-29 11:23:34]
 
robsaw
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:14 am

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:28 pm

Quoting TrnsWrld (Reply 31):
Ugh, some people are just so negative. I would swear by reading your posts I would think you hated aviation. I mean I understand what your saying and all, but come on you gotta admit that even though this entire issue was human error, the pilots did manage to land a 767 with no power is pretty awesome....and at an airport, sorta

On the other-hand, the whole reason for the incident was a series of cascading human errors in relation to a mechanical fault that really does create a question of exactly what and whom should or should not be celebrated. A coincidence resulted in the aircraft being piloted by perhaps the most suited crew who did a masterful job of gliding a 767 to a relatively good landing and subsequent awards. The other more negative aspects are a final "blame" assignment to Air Canada but also suspensions to the pilots and a mechanic by AC with things like improperly updated fuel management procedures, leaving equipment in an improper state, MEL misinterpretation, metric-imperial conversion and data entry errors, and miscommunication between outgoing and incoming pilots.

Great flying - bad aircraft management.

[Edited 2013-07-29 12:29:10]

[Edited 2013-07-29 12:30:19]
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2537
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: Gimli Glider 30 Years Later

Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:24 pm

It's too bad there isn't a tracking system to find out what date and flights C-GAUN flew in and out of my airport YHZ.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus