DiscoverCSG
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:43 am

A post on another aviation site reports that an AI 788 had an oven fire on board, DEL-CCU.

Anybody have more information?
 
comorin
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:47 am

Just an overheated Samosa, probably. Actually the so-called fire was in an oven in the galley.
 
Motorhussy
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:12 am

Possibly the new tandoors they're trialling...   

[Edited 2013-07-25 20:44:18]
come visit the south pacific
 
jetfuel
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:20 am

Oven over heated. No damage . Nothing to see, Move on folks
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
PEK777
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:29 am

Wouldn't surprise me if this Bush-League operation did this intentionally to get a 787 mishap into the media in an attempt to get compensation from Boeing. I know it sounds ridiculous, but look at some of the logic we have seem come from this airline in the recent past!
  
 
freqflyer
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:26 am

Quoting PEK777 (Reply 4):
but look at some of the logic we have seem come from this airline in the recent past!

I don't know about their logic, but yours seems absurd.

The aircraft was back in operation after removing the offending oven. The matter was reported to Boeing as a matter of course. Where does the compensation angle come in at all?
 
dtw2hyd
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:14 pm

Quoting PEK777 (Reply 4):
we have seem come from this airline in the recent past!

Did we miss something? How many crashes/fatalities/injuries AI had in recent past. India is a true democratic country, media reports every thing.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:14 pm

Overheating ovens are a daily occurrence. Most of the time the oven has not overheated but the contents of a container inside have (particularly when warming chocolate for sundaes) making a terrible burnt smell, a cleanup mess but no harm done. Except that the crew won't be getting a sundae today. This is a non-newsworthy thread.

The ovens on modern aircraft are pre-programmed to heat at varying temperatures depending on the contents of the oven. It can be overridden, however, and that is when the problem occurs.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
DIJKKIJK
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:27 pm

Quoting comorin (Reply 1):
Just an overheated Samosa,
Quoting jetfuel (Reply 3):
Oven over heated. No damage

According to this source, it was a fire that needed to be put out using extinguishers. More than just an overheated samosa, I'm afraid.

http://www.livemint.com/Companies/vP...en-fire-spooks-Air-India-crew.html


and given that the 787 has, unfortunately, earned a reputation with regards to fires breaking out where they shouldn't, it is quite newsworthy.

Luckily, neither the airplane nor any of the passengers or crew were injured here.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
airDFW
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:40 pm

Quoting discoverCSG (Thread starter):
DEL-CCU.

Are they still using these birds domestically? Isn't that waste?
 
LTC8K6
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:41 pm

Most sources seem to be reporting that it was just smoke from inside the oven.
 
theaviator380
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:08 pm

Quoting airdfw (Reply 9):

Would you also call UNITED 787 used on domestic sector in USA as a waste? Check out traffic on DEL-CCU sector please. Also India is huge big country and domestic travel has gone up so much in recent past. I won't be surprised if they continue using one on this sector in coming days.

Cheers.
 
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readytotaxi
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:23 pm

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 8):
Luckily, neither the airplane nor any of the passengers or crew were injured here.

Just the poor inflight meal.  
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
 
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kgaiflyer
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:23 pm

Quoting TheAviator380 (Reply 11):
Check out traffic on DEL-CCU sector please. Also India is huge big country and domestic travel has gone up so much in recent past.

Very true!

New Delhi to Kolkata (Calcutta) is 814 sm.

Now for reference, Houston to Denver is 860 sm.

If these are both routes flown by 787s, then the distances are very similar.
 
UA787DEN
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:55 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 13):
Now for reference, Houston to Denver is 860 sm.

If these are both routes flown by 787s, then the distances are very similar.

To be fair, IAH-DEN is only on a 787 so the aircraft is positioned for DEN-NRT. For instance, on Monday, July 29th, the UA timetable shows x5 739, x3 738, x1 752, and x1 788. It could easily support larger planes, but UA is going for frequency.

Quoting TheAviator380 (Reply 11):
Would you also call UNITED 787 used on domestic sector in USA as a waste?

Given that his username includes DFW he might...AA in DFW vs UA in IAH...   

Quoting airdfw (Reply 9):
Are they still using these birds domestically? Isn't that waste?

On the route, no. Given the crowding at some Indian airports, if you can put a high-capacity plane on the route, do it.
 
ukoverlander
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:03 pm

Quoting PEK777 (Reply 4):
Wouldn't surprise me if this Bush-League operation did this intentionally to get a 787 mishap into the media in an attempt to get compensation from Boeing. I know it sounds ridiculous, but look at some of the logic we have seem come from this airline in the recent past!

You're right - it sounds ridiculous.
 
dtw2hyd
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:39 pm

I have a theory on 787 fires, being American at heart 787 burns whenever it is at a port linked to British. BOS,LHR,CCU.
 
Viscount724
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:15 pm

Quoting airdfw (Reply 9):

Are they still using these birds domestically? Isn't that waste?

No more a waste than using them on significantly shorter domestic routes in Japan.
 
NYC777
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:17 pm

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 8):
According to this source, it was a fire that needed to be put out using extinguishers. More than just an overheated samosa, I'm afraid.

http://www.livemint.com/Companies/vP...en-fire-spooks-Air-India-crew.html


and given that the 787 has, unfortunately, earned a reputation with regards to fires breaking out where they shouldn't, it is quite newsworthy.

No it was just food that was in the oven much too long. This is not newsworthy in the least.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
NYC777
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Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:19 pm


async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8">>
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
ASA
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:15 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 16):
I have a theory on 787 fires, being American at heart 787 burns whenever it is at a port linked to British. BOS,LHR,CCU.

hahaha - good one. and a very astute observation.

these three cities have indeed some remarkable similarities ... no questions on their past   
 
Boeing747_600
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:21 pm

Hey, it takes 900 F to cook a juicy Tandoori chicken leg!
 
Boeing747_600
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:25 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 20):
hahaha - good one. and a very astute observation.

and in any case, even if it isn't, it still beats the nonsensical rambling of PEK777 
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:24 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17):
Are they still using these birds domestically? Isn't that waste?

It is common practice with a new aircraft type to operate it domestically while gaining operating experience and training crews. We did the same with the 747-400 (MSP-PHX) and the A330's. If they break they are close to a maintenance base.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
Alpage
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:55 pm

It is very worrying this situation. There are too many "leading indicators" and signals for a major event with this plane. My concern is to see Boeing and the Airways playing dice with the lives of passengers like this, dismissing and ignoring every "minor" event.
 
DiscoverCSG
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:32 am

I've never been more glad to have a thread title changed by the moderators. I originally posted not knowing it was "just" an oven issue.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:33 am

Quoting Alpage (Reply 24):
There are too many "leading indicators" and signals for a major event with this plane.

That is only because every little issue with the 787 is reported in the media and, by extension, on this forum.

When the A380 entered service, every little issue generated it's own thread in CivAv. It got to the point that one would be forgiven for thinking the A380 had a single-digit dispatch rate percentage and that they carried more mechanics than passengers.  

[Edited 2013-07-26 18:56:44]
 
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EK413
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:36 am

Quoting discoverCSG (Reply 25):

I've never been more glad to have a thread title changed by the moderators. I originally posted not knowing it was "just" an oven issue.

Your welcome even though I'm not a moderator I just thought it was misleading.

Just a note, if you feel the title needs to be updated with the correct information you can click "SUGGEST DELETION" & follow the prompts.

EK8414
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
sankaps
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:13 pm

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 8):
According to this source, it was a fire that needed to be put out using extinguishers. More than just an overheated samosa, I'm afraid.

http://www.livemint.com/Companies/vP....html

This article in Forbes too suggests it took fire extinguishers to put out. The article goes on to castigate AI for not making an emergency landing at the nearest suitable airport.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngogl...didnt-crew-make-emergency-landing/
 
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EK413
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:34 am

Quoting sankaps (Reply 28):
This article in Forbes too suggests it took fire extinguishers to put out. The article goes on to castigate AI for not making an emergency landing at the nearest suitable airport.

Talk about incompetents. I've never flown AI & honestly don't have intentions to fly in the near future! Any fire regardless of it being under control justifies diverting to the nearest airport!

EK8413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:24 am

Why did the cb not trip.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
sankaps
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:54 am

Thread title is now misleading given the latest emerging info -- it was more than a case of overheating ovens (otherwise they would not need to use fire extinguishers). Have suggested to the mods that the title be changed to reflect this.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:52 pm

Quoting sankaps (Reply 31):
Thread title is now misleading given the latest emerging info -- it was more than a case of overheating ovens (otherwise they would not need to use fire extinguishers). Have suggested to the mods that the title be changed to reflect this.

Does that really seem necessary to you?

When the QF A380 had an uncontained engine failure causing substantial damage, the thread title was "QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing." Note that the thread title, while accurate, sounds somewhat mundane relative to the severity of the actual incident. Nobody made an issue of it. This is just one example.
 
freqflyer
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:53 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 29):
Any fire regardless of it being under control justifies diverting to the nearest airport!

At what stage of the flight did the event occur ? Is it possible that the nearest suitable airport was indeed CCU ? LKO, VNS and PAT cannot take a 787, PAT is a problem even for 737/320 's.

Is it possible that the extinguishers were used as a matter of abundant caution? We have no details at this point. But the local media is not jumping all over AI as yet and that is surprising.
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:55 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 29):
Talk about incompetents. I've never flown AI & honestly don't have intentions to fly in the near future! Any fire regardless of it being under control justifies diverting to the nearest airport!

It was a DEL-CCU flight with a total flying time of 1 hour 40 minutes! The nearest diversion airport would have been either DEL or CCU

[Edited 2013-07-28 09:03:41]
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:57 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 29):
Talk about incompetents. I've never flown AI & honestly don't have intentions to fly in the near future!

Like many others on here, you seem to be heavily influenced by a.net opinions.....AI has been a favorite punching bag for many on this forum for some time now......let the facts emerge before making up your mind about the airline.....
 
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EK413
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:04 pm

Quoting freqflyer (Reply 33):
At what stage of the flight did the event occur ?

How long does it take a fire to be out of control? Does Swiss flight 111 ring any alarm bells?

Quoting Gr8circle (Reply 35):
Like many others on here, you seem to be heavily influenced by a.net opinions.

As an individual I choose to fly carriers I trust QF/LH/BA/EK as an example and let me tell you AI certainly doesn't meet my criteria.

EK8413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:24 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 36):
As an individual I choose to fly carriers I trust QF/LH/BA/EK as an example and let me tell you AI certainly doesn't meet my criteria.

Interesting. QF is obvious. LH is definitely top. BA is a OK. Hope you are aware most of EK MX engineers are former AI employees. AI has much conservative pilot training and promotion policies than EK. You won't become Captain with few hours of flying because you are a UAE citizen.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:05 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 36):
As an individual I choose to fly carriers I trust QF/LH/BA/EK as an example and let me tell you AI certainly doesn't meet my criteria.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion and you've found that the aforesaid airlines meet your criteria and that's fine too.....but you seem (just like a lot of other a.netters) to have formed your opinion of AI based on media and a.net reports rather than a personal flight experience.....that's all I'm pointing out.....
 
sankaps
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:49 am

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 37):
Interesting. QF is obvious. LH is definitely top. BA is a OK.

I think EK's comments relate to operational professionalism / safety consciousness. Curious why you would say QF is "obvious" and BA just "OK" when history suggests BA is one of the safest, most professionally run operations in the entire airline industry?
 
sankaps
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:08 am

Quoting Gr8circle (Reply 38):
.....but you seem (just like a lot of other a.netters) to have formed your opinion of AI based on media and a.net reports rather than a personal flight experience

Gr8circle: I don't think personal flight experience is relevant at all to this discussion, which is around operational professionalism and safety consciousness.

While AI may have improved in recent years, it does indeed have a long way to go to overcome the "SkyGods" culture that so strongly permeates it, resulting in stories popping up with depressing regularity about cockpit crew flouting regulations and safety norms, whether by entertaining cabin crew up front, inviting film actresses to the flight deck, getting into physical altercations, locking themselves out of the flight deck accidentally, and what not.

Not to mention scenes personally witnessed not so long ago of cabin crew smoking in the galleys. Any regular AI flyer will also tell you while the service may more often than not be fine and the food good (at least in business class), attention to safety details such as how bags are stowed, whether seat belts are fastened, seat back upright, electronic devices turned off, etc, is low.

It is the unfortunate truth that they still have a long way to go before their operational and safety culture can be considered world class.
 
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EK413
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:46 am

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 37):
Interesting. QF is obvious. LH is definitely top. BA is a OK. Hope you are aware most of EK MX engineers are former AI employees.
QF always been recognised for their safety record, LH is by far one my favourite European carriers with a professional approach, BA provide a wonderful service even in cattle class (I travel up the front these days) & EK have a large quantity of expats & foreign crew above & below the wing which follow strict guidelines.
I guarantee AI is far cry from the above & introducing the B787 to their fleet doesn't attract me to an airline with a terrible reputation. Good luck to them I say but their government will prevent the carrier from moving forward.
That's just my views and opinions.

EK8413

[Edited 2013-07-29 04:00:39]
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:03 pm

Yet again, dragged in to off topic discussion...

Quoting sankaps (Reply 39):
Curious why you would say QF is "obvious" and BA just "OK"

It is like Delta is my first choice. QF gave up its international ops to EK, how does it matter how safe it was?

BA is no longer the aviation leader it used to be. Another airline barely surviving.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 40):
entertaining cabin crew up front, inviting film actresses to the flight deck, getting into physical altercations, locking themselves out of the flight deck accidentally

Cabin crew in the cockpit is not a violation or any safety regulation.
If door gets jammed how is it flight crew's fault. There were two pilots in the cockpit, diverted to the closed airport.
Actress in cockpit is a violation and crew is suspended. In western terms the system worked. End of story.

Interestingly the only major accident in recent's AI past is caused by a UK expat pilot, by not listening to a local FO.

I agree 100% about the way they conduct themselves, no one used to complain about them in the past, they became tone deaf.

Disclaimer: I flew on AI in 1997 and in 2013, some 16 years apart and no way related to AI.
 
sankaps
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:29 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 42):
Cabin crew in the cockpit is not a violation or any safety regulation.

Not it is not. But having them there for extended periods of time for non-duty related reasons is certainly not SOP either.

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 42):
It is like Delta is my first choice. QF gave up its international ops to EK, how does it matter how safe it was?

BA is no longer the aviation leader it used to be. Another airline barely surviving.

Sorry, has nothing to do with the topic at hand, and you are factually incorrect about BA which is actually doing very well.

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 42):
Yet again, dragged in to off topic discussion...

Perhaps would not had happened if you hadn't made some seemingly random remarks about QF, LH, BA etc.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:52 pm

Quoting sankaps (Reply 43):
Perhaps would not had happened if you hadn't made some seemingly random remarks about QF, LH, BA etc.

I was just responding to [Reply 36], some seemingly random remarks about AI etc.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:54 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 44):
Quoting sankaps (Reply 43):Perhaps would not had happened if you hadn't made some seemingly random remarks about QF, LH, BA etc.
I was just responding to [Reply 36], some seemingly random remarks about AI etc.

Ahh.....AI bashing all over again......really surprising how AI gets the worst end of the (a.net) stick for every big or small mistake they make (and I do admit they make a lot of them), while for other (more "respected" carriers), it's always "oh, these things happen, let's move on".......I think AI needs to devote some PR efforts to improve their image with a.nutters, more than anyone else... 
 
himmat01
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:07 am

Quoting Gr8circle (Reply 45):

I wish AI would appoint you as its PR Head. They really need somebody like you.  
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
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garpd
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:49 am

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 42):
BA is no longer the aviation leader it used to be. Another airline barely surviving.

An Airline that is "barely" surviving does not take deliveries of brand new 77Ws, 787s and A380s.
BA are operating at a profit in fact.
Perhaps you are mixing them up with VS?

Please check your information before posting, particularly when it is off topic.
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
777Boeing777
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:02 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 32):
Does that really seem necessary to you?

To him, yes given his well documented history throughout multiple 787-related threads. Who hasn't left something in the oven to long or set the wrong temperature, and it got a big smokey. Doesn't mean my house is defective.
 
sankaps
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RE: Air India B787 Flight Ovens Overheat

Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:07 pm

Quoting 777Boeing777 (Reply 48):
To him, yes given his well documented history throughout multiple 787-related threads. Who hasn't left something in the oven to long or set the wrong temperature, and it got a big smokey. Doesn't mean my house is defective.

Yes, all of us have left something set at the wrong temperature and then used fire extinguishers to cope with the result, when 40,000 feet up in the skies.

 

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