jns13
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Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:31 am

Saw the following article on the local NBC5 news tonight.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward...ird-Airport-Peotone-216907011.html

Now, I know this has been discussed on here before, but more as a possibility. Although the FAA still must approve such a project, it seems the legislature, or at least the governor, is determined to make this happen.

Personally, I think building a third airport in Chicago is foolish and, considering Illinois' current financial situation, downright destructive. Being from the Chicago suburbs, I simply cannot see this being a success. While I understand that a good portion of the passengers using Chicago airports are transiting and/or arriving from international destinations, there is also a massive population in the suburbs and city itself that travel, and the location for this potential third airport, Peotone, is remote, to put it lightly. The existence of huge infrastructure as well as the current expansion plans for O'Hare render this project further obsolete, at least in my opinion.

I'd really like to hear everybody's opinions, though. I'm pretty inexperienced in the grand scheme of things, but this whole deal seems doomed to failure, and building an airport that won't be used to "create jobs" in rural Illinois seems like giving a poor man who has no access to fuel a car. I'd love to hear your discussion, though; apologies if this has been posted already.

Thanks,

Jordan
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:34 am

I can only assume this must mean the pension problem has been solved, so great news!
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mayor
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:41 am

In addition to the stupidity of a third airport, just WHICH airlines are going to be willing to move all or part of their operation to Peotone? Anyone for a three way, split operation in Chicago?  
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
xjet
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:57 am

Great, soon Top Gear can film an episode at an Amerian ghost airport. The O'hare expansion pretty well takes care of runway capacity. The only thing Chicago needs is more gate space at O'hare, which is totally doable.
 
bohica
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:10 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 2):
WHICH airlines are going to be willing to move all or part of their operation to Peotone?

Fedex, UPS, DHL, Polar, Atlas, etc. Peotone might be good for cargo traffic but not for many passengers. AA and UA said a long time ago they are not interested in Peotone. AA and UA have invested way too much into ORD to abandon it in favor of Peotone.
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:43 am

Let me be the first to say it, is Chicago building the next Mirabel? (YMX).

I saw the news broadcast on the Chicago 12:00pm news today. They actually have broken ground for this airport. they said that while the airlines have fought it they expect a lot of the passengers to come from the SW side of Chicago. Has everyone forgot about MDW?

I can see it now. Ram Emmanuel forces the airlines to start using the airport. They put in a token number of flights. Then they complain that it is difficult to make the region work with 3 airports. Then traffic ebbs and flows for quite a number of years. This is the same thing that happened when MDW was upgraded and started airline service again in 1967-68.

Cargo carriers won't like it because then any cargo that arrives at Peotone will have to be trucked to Chicago, adding costs.
There is already enough truck traffic on I-57, they don't need anymore.

I think it'll make a nice GA airport that people will try, but in the end not use because who wants to drive 60 miles to get on an airplane at an airport in the middle of no where.
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Grisee08
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:52 am

Quoting type-rated (Reply 5):
This is the same thing that happened when MDW was upgraded and started airline service again in 1967-68.

Hasn't this Peotone thing been going on SINCE 1967?   

Also, look at what happened to BLV? That was SUPPOSED to relieve the THEN congested STL. Now, I think Allegiant is the only airline who kisses that runway. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
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Beardown91737
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:41 am

Yes, Peotone has been going on since 1967. My concern is that it is a bit beyond the populated area. Metropolitan Chicago generally ends at the terminus of the commuter railroads, with some exurban communities beyond that. The boundary would be about 10 miles north of the "South Suburban Airport" site.

Of course, development would then radiate from the new airport to meet the current developed area, but there would be little population to the east, west, or south. Everything would come from the north or northeast. Peotone, Beecher, and Monee probably don't want to be overrun, so that can lead to lawsuits and delays.

There is infrastructure at GYY, and that is being improved. Peotone would have to be built from the beginning, it would need an exit off of I-57 and probably would get a spur. Midwest winters aren't kind to construction, and expenses mount quickly.

Then there is the 5000' runway at Bult Field, a GA airport immediately to the east of the Peotone site. Peotone would have to buy out Bult's owners.

Originally, the idea was that high speed rail would solve the access problem, but no one thinks of how long it takes to get to the magical bullet train. If it leaves from Union Station in Downtown Chicago, there is no problem with right of way, but passengers will need to take slow commuter trains or Amtrak to get to the station, and possibly need to transfer from another commuter station (Amtrak uses Union Station).

Quoting type-rated (Reply 5):
Ram Emmanuel forces the airlines to start using the airport.

Peotone is a State of Illinois project.
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EWRandMDW
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:20 am

Let's not forget that Illinois and Indiana very recently agreed to build the ILLIANA Tollway connecting I-65 in Indiana with I-57 in Illinois. It will go right next to the proposed Peotone site. I guess if you're gonna build a modern shiny new road, you might as well build an airport for drivers to go to!
 
eaglepower83
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:09 pm

This really is a stupid airport. I can't believe it's going forward.
MDW and ORD answer all our questions for travel already.
We're from Orland Park, in the deep south Suburbs and using ORD and MDW are breezes.
Why on earth would we go to Peotone? And to echo another good question, what airline is going to fly from there without being blackmaled?
Chicago's air capacity is fine for quite a while, with gate additions maybe helping in the future.
And Milwaukee is a decent overflow. It's a nice, direct train ride away.
What on earth is a 2nd remote (3rd if you count Rockford) going to really help?

IDIOTS.
 
jcwr56
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:26 pm

This isn't about moving airlines from ORD/MDW to Peotone, this is all about political patronage for jobs, consulting contracts, land purchasing and the sorts for specific groups.

For those who live in Illinois, this falls along the line of the Prairie Parkway out in the far western burbs. Money was going to be made off those selling the land and building a highway few or non would use.

Illinois Department of Transportion will manage the facility via private development.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...port-0726-20130726,0,1995914.story

Here's something that falls along the same line....The Port of Chicago.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...1_cargo-port-the-port-lake-calumet

Can you see the pattern here...
 
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United787
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:40 pm

All I can say is Quinn is a fricken idiot! For all of the reasons stated by the smart people of this forum above...
 
KarlB737
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:47 pm

Quoting jns13 (Thread starter):
Personally, I think building a third airport in Chicago is foolish and, considering Illinois' current financial situation, downright destructive. Being from the Chicago suburbs, I simply cannot see this being a success.

I doubt if there is one A-Net member that believes this is a good idea for the reasons they have provided on this forum for a numbers of years. We know from past discussions that the airlines are not interested in it. Many believe it is too far south. Most if not all of us believe that ORD and MDW are providing what is needed. GYY will be what it will be when its runway is extended. Clearly an unnecessary expense at a time when everybody knows funds are tight and money shouldn't be spent.
 
planespotting
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:07 pm

Shut the front door.

From a political standpoint, this authorization is all about the "potential" jobs that constructing an airport at Peotone would bring in. I don't think it will ever happen, but from Quinn's perspective, he can say "I authorized the Peotone airport, which would create XY,000 new jobs for union workers over three years - but we're still hamstrung by the FAA in Washington so there's no way we can build it."

So no money is appropriated, the Fed isn't going to authorize it, and the project will continue to be talked about ad nauseum.

I didn't realize this project has been discussed since the late 60s though ... I grew up on the Iowa side of the Quad Cities (roughly 200 miles west of Chicago) and I remember hearing advertisements on the radio against a Peotone airport in the mid '90s.
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skywaymanaz
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:35 pm

The proposed Lake Calumet Airport was a better idea than this. I question how serious they were about it but there were some really nice renderings. I don't really have a problem with Illinois setting the land aside for a future airport at Peotone but now is not the time. O'Hare expansion will take care of a lot of the regions problems. Chicago-Gary has been a hard sell. The new runway expansion may not have a customer with Allegiant pulling out. Anyone think Peotone would really do better than Gary?
 
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:41 pm

Hurry up, you may beat BER!  

But seriously, it would be completely foolish of him to build this if there are not any commitments from airlines. Would Allegiant or Spirit fly from there? I assume Southwest wouldn't think of moving flights there with how many they have at MDW.
 
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:15 pm

Quoting type-rated (Reply 5):
I can see it now. Ram Emmanuel forces the airlines to start using the airport.

Emanuel has always been against the Peotone Airport in favor of expanding O'Hare further. Peotone brings no benefits to the city of Chicago. It's the state that is pushing it.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:55 pm

Unbelievable. Where do I even begin? Illinois now has the worst finances of any state in the country, yet they are more concerned with a pork barrel airport project than tackling their fiscal problems? Unlike California, which has taken painful but necessary steps to rectify its similarly poor finances, Illinois does not seem to be doing anything but ignoring the problem - and getting worse! With its credit rating lower than all other states, Illinois will pay hefty interest rates to fund things like this airport. The bond issue covering the airport land purchase alone will likely cause about $18 million in *extra* interest payments per year, or $450 million over the life of the 25 year bond. Now, that's a $1.3 billion bond issue covering all kinds of infrastructure projects, but I wouldn't be surprised if greenfield airport construction alone may cost a similar amount. For the sake of Illinois taxpayers, I can only hope the state doesn't actually spend more money on building this absolutely unnecessary airport. They are already paying dearly as it is.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...is-credit-rating-st_n_3496264.html

Other than pork barrel spending, I just don't understand the rationale behind this airport. Chicago has recently invested billions in its two existing airports, including the new MDW terminal and improved ORD runway configuration. MDW is close to downtown Chicago, and a key economic engine for an otherwise impoverished part of the city. The runways may be short, but WN and other LCCs seem perfectly happy with MDW. ORD is at the heart of the suburban business/industrial corridor, and close to the wealthiest Chicago neighborhoods and suburbs. At ORD, hub carriers AA and UA have more than enough room for their needs, new domestic entrants like B6 and VX managed to find space in the domestic terminals, and foreign carriers continue to add service. Both airports are directly linked to the city's el network. As for a third airport, MKE has a direct train link with the city of Chicago and is an easy drive from the northern suburbs. Other "Chicago" airports have fared poorly - RFD is no more than a quasi-charter vacation package gateway, with no proven ability to support any actual network service (i.e. NW to DTW/MSP, UAX to DEN, F9 to DEN), while GYY seemingly can't support any commercial service at all.

I'm not aware of any airlines supporting this project - even the likes of G4 or NK. Most of the money is on the other side of town, and unless they took a drastic step like shutting down MDW (won't happen, and in such a scenario I'd expect WN to pay for an ORD west terminal before going way into the boonies) the airport would probably only get cargo and GA. Seems like an incredible waste of time and money at a time when Illinois should be cutting back on its spending.
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flyingclrs727
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:15 pm

So why did Chicago just expand ORD? I don't see how IL needs an expanded major hub at ORD plus a DFW sized new hub in the greater Chicago area.
 
ouboy79
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:27 pm

So stupid. If they really needed a 3rd major pax airport, I would think upgrading LOT would make a lot more sense or if they needed a new airport then put it on the west side of Plainfield south of Aurora. LOT has a ton of room though to expand.
 
ckfred
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:34 pm

The will come when Chicagoland will need a third airport, but that is probably 30 or 40 years into the future. Back in the 1970s, the 6-county area had about 6 million residents. Now, the area has more than 8 million residents. The growth in the metro area is beyond the collar counties and in the southwest suburbs.

If you believe aviation pundits, today's 600 million air travelers will be around 1 billion by 2030. You have to assume that the growth of air traffic in and out of the Chicago area would be similar to national growth.

Yes, ORD has plenty of capacity, but the belief is that with the proposed configuration of 6 east-west runways plus 2 cross runways, the operational limit is around 1.6 million. Back in the peak years about a decade ago, ORD was close to 1 million annual operations. So, the expansion program will only add about 60% more capacity over the peak operations.

Plus, there is a question on how to increase gate space. The City wants to build a western terminal, but no one has figured out how to connect the proposed terminal to Terminals 1,2,3, and 5. Years ago, there was a proposal to build a new Terminal 4 (AA/oneworld international flights) and new terminal 6 (all non-UA/AA domestic), and make Terminal 2 an international terminal for UA/Star. So, who knows if and when the City will increase gate space. And frankly, other than B6 and VX, who is going to use additional gate space? AA certainly has room to expand, even after the US merger. There are several gates that don't have jet bridges. Those could be easily put back in service. For UA, it's more likely that some RJ frequencies would become mainline frequencies, before we see UA being short of gate space.

MDW will eventually reach its operaitonal limit. WN can't keep adding flights, and no one wants to see MDW built out beyond its current boundaries. Plus, running runways over 55th, 63rd, Cicero, and Central would be an engineering nightmare.

That said, here's the major problem.

While driving to Peotone from the Loop and the south surburbs is relatively easy, it's getting there from the western suburbs that's the issue. There is a fair amount of population west of Chicago, as well as a large amount of office space along I-88, including Oak Brook, Downers Grove, Lisle, and Naperville. Major corporations with offices in that corridor include McDonald's, BP, Navistar, Aetna, and Exelon.

People going to and from the west suburbs can't easily get to Peotone. There had been a plan to extend I-355 from I-80 to I-57. But, becasue it took so long to get the extension from I-55 to I-80 built, the area of the proposed route to I-57 became very developed. The Tollway Authority has said that the purchase of land for the extionsion would be quite high, compared to the costs for buying land for I-290 to I-55 and I-55 to I-80.

So, getting to Peotone from some place like Hinsdale, Westmont, or Bolingbrook will mean getting on to I-294 and heading south to I-57 (work has stared on the 294/57 interchange), or taking I-355 to I-80, and then probably taking secondary streets and highways to the airport.

That is not a way to get people to switch from ORD and MDW.

By the same token, Gary still has plans to lengthen the main runway at GYY. If Chicagoland keeps expanding along I-90, RFD becomes a potential third airport. I know people in the northern suburbs who use MKE, since traffic on I-294/I-94 is often lighter than going south towards ORD.
 
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illinoisman
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:26 pm

Quoting bohica (Reply 4):
Fedex, UPS, DHL, Polar, Atlas, etc. Peotone might be good for cargo traffic but not for many passengers.

If the purpose is for cargo, then I think RFD is suitable. No need to build another freaking airport when that is primarily what RFD is for. It's already a large hub for UPS, so quit wasting time and money and expand that airport if even necessary.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 5):
They said that while the airlines have fought it they expect a lot of the passengers to come from the SW side of Chicago.

Yeah, I really want to spend $20 on gas to drive down to Peotone instead of going to ORD or MDW...NOT! Why build an airport near Peotone when you can just spruce up GYY?
 
UA787DEN
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:34 pm

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 15):
Hurry up, you may beat BER!  

Hahaha! Laugh for the day!

Quoting illinoisman (Reply 21):
If the purpose is for cargo, then I think RFD is suitable

You can never have enough cargo airports. :P jk I totally agree.

Seriously?! Peotone? If you are going to build a new airport at least pick a more intelligent location. I agree that Lake Calumet and out near Aurora are much better places. I believe we discussed this recently in a Chicago Airport Thread.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 20):
If Chicagoland keeps expanding along I-90, RFD becomes a potential third airport.

They would sure like that. I think because of expansion there that RFD is more viable then Peotone.
 
AustrianZRH
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:39 pm

Quoting type-rated (Reply 5):
Let me be the first to say it, is Chicago building the next Mirabel? (YMX).

That's exactly what came to my mind first. Such a transit-only airport will probably never work.
WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:43 pm

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 15):
Would Allegiant or Spirit fly from there?

NK expressed interest at one time, but is mostly interested in GYY right now because of their ORD gate situation and the airport expansion in progress. Even with the volatile state of service at GYY, I could see NK running at least 10 flights a day from there before the first slab of concrete is poured in Peotone.

Quoting illinoisman (Reply 21):
If the purpose is for cargo, then I think RFD is suitable. No need to build another freaking airport when that is primarily what RFD is for. It's already a large hub for UPS, so quit wasting time and money and expand that airport if even necessary.

The City of Chicago has always advocated expanding RFD and GYY over building Peotone, and the Chicago Department of Aviation has agreements with both airports. The Chicago-Gary Airport Compact came about in 1995, while the similar deal for RFD came about a decade later. There are also plans to both extend the South Shore Line to GYY and make RFD a key stop on a new Metra line that is in the works. There are no such rail plans for Peotone.

Quoting kngkyle (Reply 16):
Emanuel has always been against the Peotone Airport in favor of expanding O'Hare further.

As did Mayor Daley before him. I remember reading an Airways magazine article from 19 years ago where Daley pounced on the mere idea of Peotone and how much a cab ride to downtown would cost.

No one has mentioned this: The Illinois governor's race is next year. Expect the Republican opponent to Pat Quinn to turn Peotone and the use of tax dollars on the project into an election-year issue.

And don't forget the FAA's veto power- up to this point, the FAA has supported expansions at RFD and GYY over building a greenfield airport in Peotone. And I don't see that changing, given that the POTUS is a Chicago guy, not a downstate guy like Quinn - and it's the downstate and south suburban folks pushing Peotone the hardest. They need to only look in their backyard at BLV to get a taste of reality.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
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par13del
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:51 pm

Quoting jns13 (Thread starter):
Personally, I think building a third airport in Chicago is foolish and, considering Illinois' current financial situation, downright destructive.

Well I have seen articles stating it is also about jobs in the south, now if ORD and MDW are providing jobs for folks in the metro area proper as well as the south there would be no support for the idea.

Second, I guess after DFW and DAL everyone may I say may be of the opinion that ORD will have to close for this new airport to have traffic, so far the aricles I have read seem to indicate that cargo will be the primary user with pax traffic second. If cargo moves it provides additional movement space at ORD, if they do a lot of movement at night, the noise in and around ORD would be less, does anyone benefit?

Third, which carriers right now would like to increase service into the Chicago area but cannot because of the gorrilla's at ORD (be they the FAA or airlines) and the space restrictions at MDW, could we also have a case of if you build it they will come?

Lastly, after the Megis Field disaster, someone may actually be looking at doing the same on a more grand scale, assumption being what it is I would say MDW would have X's on its runways versus ORD, so the question is, which of the majors presently using ORD would like to see MDW go away, imagine the economic benefit to the airport and the airlines?
I expect the airlines and the airport to look our for themselves, not the local economy.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:56 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 25):
Third, which carriers right now would like to increase service into the Chicago area but cannot because of the gorrilla's at ORD (be they the FAA or airlines) and the space restrictions at MDW, could we also have a case of if you build it they will come?

As I've said before, NK wants to grow more in Chicago, but can't get additional gates. Although I expect US to release their 3 gates at ORD T2 following their merger with T3-using AA (leaving those gates plus E8 open, for a total of 4 vacant gates in T2), I also expect NK to start serving GYY soon, as it's an airport that they have expressed interest in many times - and they can have the whole terminal to themselves.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
rampart
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:01 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 2):
In addition to the stupidity of a third airport, just WHICH airlines are going to be willing to move all or part of their operation to Peotone? Anyone for a three way, split operation in Chicago?  

You mean, like New York City, which split airport capacity 3 ways since the 1960s? That's when the metro area was smaller (Chicago-sized) and airline capacity a fraction of what it is now. Los Angeles could be thought of as split 5 ways with smaller airports. Why does Chicago have to be satisfied with 2, if planning for a 3rd can be done?

Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 8):
I guess if you're gonna build a modern shiny new road, you might as well build an airport for drivers to go to!

Somewhat like E-470 and DEN, though DEN was first. I still try to avoid E-470.

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 18):

So why did Chicago just expand ORD? I don't see how IL needs an expanded major hub at ORD plus a DFW sized new hub in the greater Chicago area.

Airports still need to upgrade even when new ones are planned, to be able to accommodate existing and near-future capacity. That's what happened at Stapleton before DIA, at Love before DFW, and even between terminals at places like PHX, LAX, and LAS.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 22):
I agree that Lake Calumet and out near Aurora are much better places.

If I recall the arguments, Lake Calumet was too confined to accommodate any growth, and the environmental cleanup was prohibitive. Of course, I don't know its status now.


-Rampart
 
victrola
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:05 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 10):
This isn't about moving airlines from ORD/MDW to Peotone, this is all about political patronage for jobs, consulting contracts, land purchasing and the sorts for specific groups.

For those who live in Illinois, this falls along the line of the Prairie Parkway out in the far western burbs. Money was going to be made off those selling the land and building a highway few or non would use.

Political patronage for jobs, and consulting contracts??? I'm shocked that you would insinuate such a thing could occur in Illinois 
 
Marcus
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:17 pm

This airport will be so far from the main populated areas that Ryanair could fly there and call it Chicago South   
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scutfarcus
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:25 pm

Amazing. I can't believe this is popping up again.

For god's sake, if you want to spend money then upgrade Amtrak to MKE, at least that stands a chance at actually being used...
 
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enilria
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:37 pm

Quoting bohica (Reply 4):
Quoting mayor (Reply 2):
WHICH airlines are going to be willing to move all or part of their operation to Peotone?

Fedex, UPS, DHL, Polar, Atlas, etc. Peotone might be good for cargo traffic but not for many passengers. AA and UA said a long time ago they are not interested in Peotone. AA and UA have invested way too much into ORD to abandon it in favor of Peotone.

I don't even buy that. There is a ton of belly cargo intermingling with freighters at ORD. That's not going to work if they move the cargo carriers elsewhere. I don't think even Fedex or UPS would move because of their new initiative to use belly space on scheduled carriers for long-haul. So, I see this being the airport for Hooters Air Part Deux.
 
UA787DEN
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:40 pm

Quoting rampart (Reply 27):
Somewhat like E-470 and DEN, though DEN was first. I still try to avoid E-470.

Why? Of course I do live closer to the Northwest Parkway segment...

Quoting rampart (Reply 27):
If I recall the arguments, Lake Calumet was too confined to accommodate any growth, and the environmental cleanup was prohibitive. Of course, I don't know its status now.

I believe it. But at least it would be used to its capacity.
 
rampart
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:03 pm

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 32):
Why?

If you're asking about E-470, it's because anytime I'm in Denver I'm renting a car, and the rental companies have a ridiculous surcharge for the toll thingy. I choose not to just because I hate surcharges, and it usually makes little difference in the timing for where I'm going south or west or to downtown, so I can completely avoid the toll road.

I think the Lake Calumet Airport boat has long since sailed. How's that for a terrible mixed analogy?

-Rampart
 
jreuschl
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:09 pm

Quoting Marcus (Reply 29):
This airport will be so far from the main populated areas that Ryanair could fly there and call it Chicago South

Maybe Ryanair can start international flights from here?  
 
jayunited
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:33 pm

Quoting bohica (Reply 4):
Fedex, UPS, DHL, Polar, Atlas, etc. Peotone might be good for cargo traffic but not for many passengers. AA and UA said a long time ago they are not interested in Peotone. AA and UA have invested way too much into ORD to abandon it in favor of Peotone.

I'm sorry but when I read your post I had to laugh. FedEx, UPS, DHL, and other cargo companies moving their operations to Peotone is absolutely crazy and will never happen reason being when you drive thru the suburbs surrounding O'Hare the one thing you notice is a ton of freight companies and trucking companies surrounding the perimeter of O'Hare international airport. FedEx just opened a brand new cargo facility at ORD they are not going to abandon that facility and start over in Peotone UPS and DHL have just as much invested in ORD as FedEx. As far as Atlas and Polar and many of the other cargo airlines that fly into and out of ORD none of these airlines will go to Peotone unless the freight and trucking companies move to Peotone. Of course on the flip side the freight and trucking companies would want the airlines to commit to moving first before they decide to move. Then it becomes the chicken or the egg concept which came first the chicken or the egg and thats a debate that people have had for years so I don't see cargo airlines moving to Peotone.

I think Peotone has been and will continue to be a complete waist of tax payer dollars. AA, UA, DL, and WN have all said no when they were approached about moving their operations to Peotone. Many other airlines already told the governor and other Illinois politicians the exact same thing they will not move or start up their operations in Peotone. MDW is the closest airport to downtown Chicago at about 12 miles away. ORD is about 18 miles from downtown Chicago on a good traffic day you could be at the airport in 20 minutes on really bad day it could take you upwards of 1.5 hours to get to ORD. Now comes Peotone at more than 40 miles away from downtown Chicago. Gary International Airport is closer to Chicago than Peotone would be. Of course the governor and others have said that Illinois will widen the I57 expressway which gets reduced to 2 lanes in each direction once you reach 195th street. The governor has said Illinois will build a high speed rail system that will be able to take passengers from downtown Chicago to Peotone in record breaking time although they can't even fix the problems with CTA and Metra trains. They have also said they will make it worth businesses while if they do decide to move to Peotone. How? This stupid governor has said a lot but as always he has failed to deliver on any of this promises which is why just about all of the businesses that he would need to make Peotone a success have said no were are not committing to this ridiculous idea especially since Illinois has no money thanks to the fact that the governor and our elected officials don't have the stomach to even take on and solve the pension problem.

If Chicago really does need a 3 airport (which we don't) why not invest in Gary's Airport and make that airport more attractive to travelers than build another airport that will go largely unused by commercial airlines kind of like how Gary is today the airport is underutilized.
 
kordcj
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:05 pm

Quoting rampart (Reply 27):
You mean, like New York City, which split airport capacity 3 ways since the 1960s? That's when the metro area was smaller (Chicago-sized) and airline capacity a fraction of what it is now. Los Angeles could be thought of as split 5 ways with smaller airports. Why does Chicago have to be satisfied with 2, if planning for a 3rd can be done?


I think the difference is that EWR/JFK/LGA are all relatively close to a vast majority of NYC's population, not 45 miles away from city centre like Peotone. Planning for a 3rd airport is smart, but if the state is broke and they city has already heavily invested in MDW/ORD, why build the 3rd one now. Peotone probably won't be needed until ORD has replaced T1-T5 and added T6-T-9.
The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
 
UA787DEN
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:13 pm

Quoting rampart (Reply 33):
If you're asking about E-470, it's because anytime I'm in Denver I'm renting a car, and the rental companies have a ridiculous surcharge for the toll thingy

Makes sense. Living two minutes from the parkway makes me a bit more likely to use it.

Quoting kordcj (Reply 36):
Planning for a 3rd airport is smart, but if the state is broke and they city has already heavily invested in MDW/ORD, why build the 3rd one now.

That's the thing.       It's not a worthwhile investment currently.
 
KarlB737
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:24 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 35):
If Chicago really does need a 3 airport (which we don't) why not invest in Gary's Airport and make that airport more attractive to travelers than build another airport that will go largely unused by commercial airlines kind of like how Gary is today the airport is underutilized.

After all is said and done I think what you have stated above is exactly what will actually happen. Initial improvements starting with lengthening their main runway is in progress as we speak except for the contaminated soil which has to be cleaned up first.

Courtesy: Northwest Indiana Times

Gary Airport Leaders Not Intimidated By Newly Funded South Suburban Airport

"This is all about politics," Boyd said. "Illinois built one disastrous airport, the (little-used) MidAmerica St. Louis Airport. Why do they want another one? Gary isn't a garden spot, but its airport has good access and is already there."

"Gary airport officials will continue to press forward with its $166 million runway expansion project and efforts to encourage more development nearby. Gary airport leaders said the South Suburban Airport would be too far out of the way to be a viable competitor for freight, passenger service or general aviation."


http://www.nwitimes.com/business/loc...0-1ab4-53cf-a2dd-6324bd4f9807.html
 
rampart
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:50 pm

Quoting kordcj (Reply 36):
I think the difference is that EWR/JFK/LGA are all relatively close to a vast majority of NYC's population, not 45 miles away from city centre like Peotone.

I can see that. But, back when the NYC airports took form (and that's going back to the 1920s and 1930s), it made most sense to occupy coastal marsh. That doesn't happen today, and the option in Chicago's case (as it would be in NYC's case if they had to now) would be to go far out into least-developed land. That, or expand on GYY or RFD as others have suggested (which does seem more reasonable to me.) But it does make sense to have some large stash of land for an eventuality. DIA looked ridiculously far-out, and still does, but city is rapidly growing toward it. Look at DFW, and IAH, both in former exurban wilderness! Las Vegas is doing the same while investing hugely in new structures at LAS.

-Rampart
 
ckfred
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:53 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 24):
And I don't see that changing, given that the POTUS is a Chicago guy, not a downstate guy like Quinn - and it's the downstate and south suburban folks pushing Peotone the hardest. They need to only look in their backyard at BLV to get a taste of reality.

Actually, Pat Quinn grew up in west suburban Hinsdale, and I believe he is a Chicago resident. As for downstate support of Peotone, I think it's a non-issue down there. No one really cares what airport Chicagoan and suburbanites use.

Quoting par13del (Reply 25):
Lastly, after the Megis Field disaster, someone may actually be looking at doing the same on a more grand scale, assumption being what it is I would say MDW would have X's on its runways versus ORD, so the question is, which of the majors presently using ORD would like to see MDW go away, imagine the economic benefit to the airport and the airlines?

From what I gather, the City is more in bed with WN than either major tenant at ORD. Before leaving office, Mayor Daley became very adament that ORD get more airlines to keep airfares at ORD reasonable. Both UA and AA were pointing out that WN at MDW does more to keep air fares down than letting a few more B6 and VX flights.

By the same token, some airlines feel that they don't get a fair shake at MDW. Whatever WN wants, WN gets. Considering how much the City spent to build a brand new terminal and concourse complex, the City isn't about to close MDW.

The reasons for closing CGX were: a) Daley had said that only rich Republicans use CGX (even though the no. 1 proponent of biz jets, Warren Buffet, is a Democrat), and b) his wife, the late Maggie Daley, believed that a park made better sense for the site than an airport used by the business community.
 
EWRandMDW
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:04 pm

Quoting illinoisman (Reply 21):
Why build an airport near Peotone when you can just spruce up GYY?

GYY is in Indiana and last I heard, Indiana voters can't cast ballots in Illinois.
 
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par13del
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:06 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 40):
By the same token, some airlines feel that they don't get a fair shake at MDW. Whatever WN wants, WN gets. Considering how much the City spent to build a brand new terminal and concourse complex, the City isn't about to close MDW.

Is there room to grow at MDW for the legacies, and if they are now in bed with WN, is that because the legacies were entrenched at ORD and were not interested?
I can certainely see certain politicians giving WN the boot after developing an alternative market to go after the "big boys" but I can also understand standing by the carrier that put your airport on the map in a significant way.
 
ckfred
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:10 pm

Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 41):
GYY is in Indiana and last I heard, Indiana voters can't cast ballots in Illinois.

True, but remember that CVG isn't in Ohio. It's across the river in Kentucky. If you go to either ORD or MDW, you see a lot of Indiana license plates in the parking lots and in front of the terminals. Getting to GYY from the Loop is fairly easy, and it would be far easier to connect the South Shore rail line to the GYY terninal than to start rail service to Peotone. MKE has had an Amtrak stop for years.

The problem is that people in the south suburbs who don't live near Peotone are in favor of it. But, people who live under possible flight paths of Peotone are worried that they will some day suffer the way people in suburbs near ORD have suffered with noise.
 
luckyone
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:15 pm

A couple things here:
1. Peotone is more than twice as far from the Loop as O'Hare.
2. There is no transportation link from Peotone to The Loop.
3. Gary and Milwaukee both have airports, and Gary is quite underserved.
4. There isn't an appreciable amount of people who would find it convenient to go South, and most of the money is North and West of the city, from which it is easier to get to O'Hare and Midway.
5. Unlike O'Hare and Midway, there is N.O.T.H.I.N.G further South of Peotone to increase its catchment area. And is Chicago even big enough to warrant another airport? Typically the only cities with more than two airports are much bigger than Chicago.

Quoting EaglePower83 (Reply 9):
And Milwaukee is a decent overflow. It's a nice, direct train ride away.
Quoting type-rated (Reply 5):
I can see it now. Ram Emmanuel forces the airlines to start using the airport.

Peotone is a separate jurisdiction not even in the same county as Chicago. Rahm (the correct spelling) opposes this.

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 18):
So why did Chicago just expand ORD?

This is pushed by the state. Chicagoland and the rest of Illinois might as well be two separate countries.

[Edited 2013-07-26 14:17:47]
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:51 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 44):
Peotone is a separate jurisdiction not even in the same county as Chicago. Rahm (the correct spelling) opposes this.

Come on now, you don't think the City of Chicago is going to idly sit by and watch a project like this pop up in their own front yard without throwing in some kind of interference, especially when revenues that they receive from ORD/MDW move out of town down the road a little bit. The fight hasn't yet begun.

And look who is involved in this....well what do you know.....

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/03/...king-ceremony-for-peotone-airport/

http://chblog.ozarkattitude.com/2012...ckson-jrs-groundbreaking-just.html
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
luckyone
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:55 pm

Quoting type-rated (Reply 45):
Come on now, you don't think the City of Chicago is going to idly sit by and watch a project like this pop up in their own front yard without throwing in some kind of interference, especially when revenues that they receive from ORD/MDW move out of town down the road a little bit. The fight hasn't yet begun.

read the rest...

Quoting luckyone (Reply 44):
Rahm (the correct spelling) opposes this.

So, no. I don't envision Mayor Emanuel encouraging airlines to use a new facility outside of Chicago.
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:01 pm

Quoting type-rated (Reply 45):
Come on now, you don't think the City of Chicago is going to idly sit by and watch a project like this pop up in their own front yard without throwing in some kind of interference

I think that's what I said in the statement above. Chicago will find a way to delay this project.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
Beardown91737
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:46 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 31):
I don't even buy that. There is a ton of belly cargo intermingling with freighters at ORD. That's not going to work if they move the cargo carriers elsewhere. I don't think even Fedex or UPS would move because of their new initiative to use belly space on scheduled carriers for long-haul.

I also don't see that much freight relief coming to ORD. Just look at Southern California. ONT is the West Coast hub for UPS, and warehouses surround it to the point where you can see them on satellite photos, but LAX is a much larger freight center.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 35):
when you drive thru the suburbs surrounding O'Hare the one thing you notice is a ton of freight companies and trucking companies surrounding the perimeter of O'Hare international airport.

A lot of light industry surrounds ORD, and that means things need shipped to and from them.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 40):
From what I gather, the City is more in bed with WN than either major tenant at ORD.

The Daleys were south siders and always wanted MDW to succeed.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 43):
it would be far easier to connect the South Shore rail line to the GYY terninal than to start rail service to Peotone. MKE has had an Amtrak stop for years.

Yes it would, but... Amtrak (on the Illinois Central tracks) runs alongside Governor's Hwy (State Route 50), which is the western edge of the proposed airport. There are three daily routes, one Chicago-Memphis-New Orleans, the other two are Chicago-Carbondale, which is the location of Southern Illinois Univ. All three also stop in Urbana which serves the main University of Illinois. It still is easier to add GYY because you don't have to build the airport to start the service.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 44):
5. Unlike O'Hare and Midway, there is N.O.T.H.I.N.G further South of Peotone to increase its catchment area.

Or east or west.
135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Illinois Gov. Authorizes Third Chicago Airport

Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:50 pm

[quote=type-rated,reply=45][And look who is involved in this....well what do you know...../quote]
I thought he was spending with Amanda Bynes? Who let him out??
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