HB-IWC
Topic Author
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:54 am

The Jakarta Post is reporting that British Airways and Egyptair are due for a comeback at Jakarta, whereas Oman Air and others are bound to start operations there.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...oreign-carriers-fly-indonesia.html

The potential return of British Airways is remarkable, as it comes on the heels of Lufthansa's retreat from the Indonesian market in late 2012, leaving KLM and Turkish Airlines as the sole European operators in the Indonesian market. BA is unlikely return to Jakarta with a nonstop operation, which would make it the sole nonstop flight from Europe, but will likely combine Jakarta with some other city is its network. A return to Kuala Lumpur may then be on the horizon, although other options exist. BA's Heathrow to Jakarta plans may also shed a different light on Garuda's possible change of mind regarding nonstop Jakarta to Gatwick operations, which are due to start later in the year.

The addition of Oman Air at Jakarta, meanwhile, would add to the abundance of travel options offered by Middle Eastern carriers. Jakarta is currently served by Emirates (3 daily B77W), Qatar (soon to be 2 daily B77W), Etihad (daily B77W) as well as Kuwait Airways and Yemenia. The ever increasing flight offerings of these airlines were one of the reasons cited by Lufthansa for leaving the market.
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 2799
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:51 am

Indonesia is just seeing the same market forces that Australia has seen, with European carriers redeploying capacity in the face of the ME3 expansion.

I can't see BA coming to CGK, unless they really wanted to start KUL services and added a tag on.

LH leaving the market shows the pressures that are being experienced and even though demand is growing, yields will still be an issue for a few years to come.
 
changyou
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 10:57 pm

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:58 am

Thought LH left CGK due to equipment changed to A380? Is CGK A380 compatible?
Rumor on SIN side has it that BA will operate LHR-SIN-CGKvv
 
mloew
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:19 pm

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:23 am

Quoting changyou (Reply 2):
Thought LH left CGK due to equipment changed to A380?

Well, after they shifted the FRA-SIN service to the A380, they moved the -CGK tag to the MUC-SIN flight (A343), but that was cancelled eventually.
Proudly flying Oman Air
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:08 am

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:44 am

According to this article last year the UK was the 4th largest investor in Indonesia and the sum invested is growing.

http://www.asianewsnet.net/UK-sees-I...a-as-strategic-partner--41387.html

Whether that translates to enough frequent business travel to help fill flights with higher yielding passengers is another matter.
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:09 am

Most likely scenario would be the BA11 continuing on to CGK from SIN
 
JerseyFlyer
Posts: 843
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 7:24 pm

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:02 pm

I would think CGK is a good option for BA's new 788?
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:39 pm

BA11 has already been retimed from Winter 2013 to allow a CGK tag on.
 
User avatar
dirktraveller
Posts: 708
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:37 pm

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:51 pm

Good news for CGK. I saw once on a local Indonesian media, mentioning a "possible return of LH to Jakarta" (I consider it quite funny considering LH just dropped the route less than a year earlier).

I do wonder how Egypt Air would route their flight into Jakarta from CAI, and would the political condition in Egypt would allow this route to start soon? Personally for BA it is good news, although I would believe when they start the flights.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 5):
Most likely scenario would be the BA11 continuing on to CGK from SIN
Quoting MAS777 (Reply 7):

BA11 has already been retimed from Winter 2013 to allow a CGK tag on.

Wow, I would be looking forward if they really tag the flights from SIN.  
 
boysteve
Posts: 887
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:07 pm

Lets consider facts, Indonesia is the fourth most populous country in the world with a growing economy. Over the next 20 years it will surely become on of the largest 10 economies in the world. Jakarta itself has a population of ~10 million with 28 million in the greater metropolitan area. I see it as inevitable that BA will return one day, it could be next year or it could be 10 years, but they will return.
 
United Airline
Posts: 8769
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:13 pm

UA has one B 747-400 staying overnight at HKG. Perhaps they should start HKG-CGK?
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10002
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:44 am

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 7):
BA11 has already been retimed from Winter 2013 to allow a CGK tag on.

Wouldn't the layover accommodate that anyway?


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
ManekS
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:42 am

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:33 am

Interesting to hear that BA11/12 is being considered for the tag-on. Rumour has it the flight will be up-gauged to an A380 as more aircraft are delivered. If this were to happen, BA would be forced to cease Jakarta - like LH were - or to pick another flight for the tag - Kuala Lumpur perhaps?
 
mandala499
Posts: 6458
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:10 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 1):
I can't see BA coming to CGK, unless they really wanted to start KUL services and added a tag on.

CGK-KUL has KL & KU... And then MH is going to enter OW.
Somehow I'm thinking it might be possible for one of LHR-SIN to upgauge to 380 and the other to tag on CGK?

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 1):
LH leaving the market shows the pressures that are being experienced and even though demand is growing, yields will still be an issue for a few years to come.
Quoting mloew (Reply 3):
Well, after they shifted the FRA-SIN service to the A380, they moved the -CGK tag to the MUC-SIN flight (A343), but that was cancelled eventually.

FRA-CGK market is there, but LH decided it was more profitable to upgauge SIN to A380... MUC-CGK is nowhere near the size of FRA-CGK... hence it was axed. Passengers here prefers to go on LH or SQ to SIN, then switch to the A380 for SIN-FRA... thus negating the effect of the CGK tag on to the MUC flight.

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 8):
I do wonder how Egypt Air would route their flight into Jakarta from CAI, and would the political condition in Egypt would allow this route to start soon? Personally for BA it is good news, although I would believe when they start the flights.

KUL if the dare... BKK if they don't want to take risks, SIN if they're mad.   
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
HB-IWC
Topic Author
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:33 pm

Quoting changyou (Reply 2):
Rumor on SIN side has it that BA will operate LHR-SIN-CGKvv

That's quite interesting. I always though that BA had no problems filling up SIN as a terminator. Furthermore, BA has an interline agreement in place with Garuda for the SIN CGK SIN sectors.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4892
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:32 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 13):
Somehow I'm thinking it might be possible for one of LHR-SIN to upgauge to 380 and the other to tag on CGK?

The second flight already goes to SYD with the 77W.

Maybe a long awaited return to KUL extending to CGK?
 
jumpjets
Posts: 1117
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:17 pm

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:05 am

I know BA have recently retimed their BKK flights so the schedule as announced wouldn't allow time for a CGK tag - but maybe instead of introducing a KUL flight [which I have nagging doubts about given that fellow OW member MS has 2x380s a day] they could revise their BKK schedule and extend to CGK.
 
SelseyBill
Posts: 446
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:38 pm

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:19 am

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 7):
BA11 has already been retimed from Winter 2013 to allow a CGK tag on

Just curious. How would BA likely 'crew' this extension ?

Would a crew fly Day 1 LHR-SIN, Day 2 SIN-CGK-SIN, Day 3 SIN-LHR. or would they 'outstation'/ employ local crews in SIN ?

[Edited 2013-07-29 04:21:42]
 
ZuluTime
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 6:23 pm

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:19 am

BA are indeed looking at extending BA11/12 from SIN to CGK. Their winter slot application at Heathrow showed this service as a LHR-SIN-CGK operation which was a bit of a give-away about their thinking.
 
RyanairGuru
Posts: 6554
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:36 am

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 17):
Would a crew fly Day 1 LHR-SIN, Day 2 SIN-CGK-SIN, Day 3 SIN-LHR

That's the most likely pattern...

...unless, could Mixed Fleet fly LHR-SIN-CGK as one duty? I'm 99% certain that Worldwide couldn't, but if MF can then that could be an attractive option given that it would save 2 nights hotel accommodation.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
User avatar
SKAirbus
Posts: 1459
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:18 pm

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:02 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 19):
...unless, could Mixed Fleet fly LHR-SIN-CGK as one duty? I'm 99% certain that Worldwide couldn't, but if MF can then that could be an attractive option given that it would save 2 nights hotel accommodation.

A 12 hour duty plus a 2 hour layover then on for another 2 hour flight?? I think there are regulations that wouldn't allow that... 16 hours is a long time!
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
SelseyBill
Posts: 446
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:38 pm

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:11 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 14):
I always though that BA had no problems filling up SIN as a terminator

Does anyone know if BA have any SIN-CGK traffic rights ?
 
RyanairGuru
Posts: 6554
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

RE: British Airways And Others To Return To Jakarta

Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:47 am

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 21):
Does anyone know if BA have any SIN-CGK traffic rights

I don't know what the actual UK-Indonesia bilateral says, but I would guess that they almost certainly do as it was a permitted stop-over on the Kangaroo Route.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 20):
A 12 hour duty plus a 2 hour layover then on for another 2 hour flight?? I think there are regulations that wouldn't allow that... 16 hours is a long time!

It would be nearer 18 hours, as LHR-SIN is about 14 hours. Obviously the crew can't be on their feet all this time, and need appropriate rest provisions, but ultimately whether they can work would be governed by their contract, and this is where it can get confusing.

To take an example, Qantas International crew could work this as one trip - but would be paid a FORTUNE for doing so
Worked Hard, Flew Right

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Adipasquale, Alexdk, alggag, Baidu [Spider], flyguy89, hoons90, Jerseyguy, legacyins, PlaneHunter, PlaneTruth, Softaero and 171 guests