G500
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Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:44 pm

I'm still trying to figure out why United offers their "Premium Service" out of JFK instead of EWR, their main NY hub...

Anybody here think they should add PS service to EWR and/or IAD to LAX/SFO??
 
jasoncrh
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:04 pm

This really isnt hard to figure out. JFK-LAX/SFO is a niche market with people willing to pay high fares - and NOT upgrade - to fly in premium seats.

EWR/IAD- LAX/SFO are hub to hub routes and they need lots of capacity to satisfy the demand for these services.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:12 pm

UA runs a few internationally configured 757s on EWR-LAX-SFO which offer premium lie flat seats for those who need and actually pay for it on this route. Its connecting hubs so many many upgrades so the domestic first seat is fine. They really need the capacity so it would not make sense to run P.S.
 
yegbey01
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:14 pm

I think, if United was able to offer high frequency to DCA from LAX and SFO, they would run PS flights for sure.

But let's face it, who wants to fly to IAD - unless you are making an onward connection!!
 
VC10DC10
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:22 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 3):

But let's face it, who wants to fly to IAD - unless you are making an onward connection!!

It's actually a lovely airport (except for the C gates, which will be replaced in due course), well sited for many in northern Virginia, and I predict will become even more popular once WMATA trains FINALLY begin service there in 2018 (should have happened a few decades ago, but that's DC for you...). It also has far more airfield capacity than DCA, and has far fewer residents complaining about noise and such. (In my view, DCA should have been closed to all non-turboprop traffic years ago, but whatever.)

Having never tried United PS service, I'm not entirely sure what all the excitement is about; the one time I flew transcon in F on UA (LAX-IAD), the hard and soft products were lovely.
 
usairways85
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:47 pm

Currently UA has thrown a ton of capacity at EWR-SFO/LAX due to VX. They do run a few Intl 752s and they are generally very tough to get an upgrade on, meaning people do pay for F or full Y just to fly those birds.
 
codc10
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:08 pm

As mentioned, p.s. is a low-density, high-yield product. While UA may command higher yields on its SFO service from both the EWR and IAD hubs, higher-capacity equipment is needed. The First Class meal service is the same as p.s. BusinessFirst.

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 4):
It's actually a lovely airport (except for the C gates

And the low A gates... and the D gates... and the Z gates... and the midfield FIS... the list goes on!

The B gates and deliciously retro Saarinen main terminal are great, but the rest of the facility is awful!
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:32 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 3):
But let's face it, who wants to fly to IAD - unless you are making an onward connection!!

Uuuum . . . maybe us O&D folks who actually live here and use the airport every day?
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:35 pm

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 4):
Having never tried United PS service, I'm not entirely sure what all the excitement is about;

Did it once. Apparently, the fascination is "We can afford to do this every day, and you all can't."

Other than that, there's really nothing exceptional about the P.S. flights..
 
msp747
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:09 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 6):
And the low A gates... and the D gates... and the Z gates... and the midfield FIS... the list goes on!
The B gates and deliciously retro Saarinen main terminal are great, but the rest of the facility is awful!

Um, ok. I would hardly call IAD awful. What's so terrible about the A gates? That you have to walk outside? You have easy access to the B concourse, so there are plenty of food and shopping options. The Z gates are bad, but will probably never get used again and will go away. Don't know the last time you used the FIS facility, but they just opened a brand new one in the last year or two. Obviously the C and D concourse is essentially the same thing and will be replaced in the near future
 
tommy767
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:33 pm

The issue with EWR/IAD-SFO/LAX compared to PS over at JFK is consistency. Due to the aircraft type fluctuation, it's a bit of a crapshoot when it comes to onboard service. For instance in F last week on EWR-LAX on a 753 we had no pillows or blankets, no PDB, and F/A's disappeared after the meal service (literally having to chase them down for refills.)

Having said all that, the meal service was very consistent to what PS should be. Although it's pretty unacceptable to fly 739s with NO IFE on EWR/IAD-LAX/SFO. DTV product is a bit tacky for F as well, even if it's free..
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yegbey01
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:27 am

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 7):
Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 3):
But let's face it, who wants to fly to IAD - unless you are making an onward connection!!

Uuuum . . . maybe us O&D folks who actually live here and use the airport every day?

I meant that DCA is the preferred airport in DC. This year's stats show how IAD has been witnessing a drop in passenger count vs a surge at DCA.

I live in Fairfax county and I only choose IAD either when price is much much cheaper or whenever I am flying overseas. Can't beat DCA's convenience!
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:20 am

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 11):
I meant that DCA is the preferred airport in DC. This year's stats show how IAD has been witnessing a drop in passenger count vs a surge at DCA.

I live in Fairfax county and I only choose IAD either when price is much much cheaper or whenever I am flying overseas. Can't beat DCA's convenience!

Thanks for the clarification of what you really meant. Folks can only respond to what you actually say.

For the last couple of weeks, DCA has had some good fares. Otherwise, I myself go with whoever has the best fares -- BWI, DCA, or IAD
 
N62NA
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:50 pm

To answer the original question:

It's because EWR is not viewed by people east of the Hudson River as a desirable airport, when JFK and LGA are within the city limits. The fact that JFK and LGA can be reached by taxi is also a plus.

Limiting this discussion to just NYC-LAX/SFO - this perception of EWR goes back decades. If you examine airline schedules at http://www.departedflights.com you'll see that JFK always got the "prestige" aircraft (AA, UA and TW 747) while EWR usually would get the old AA and TW 707s and UA DC8s (and on those few lucky periods an upgrade to a AA/UA DC10 on EWR-LAX and amazingly a UA 747 sometimes on EWR-SFO! But those were the exceptions - the norm was cramped narrowbody aircraft).

Much to the dismay of the EWR (and CO/UA fans), the simple fact is that even EWR's dominant carrier views EWR as a "less desirable" airport when it comes to attracting premium customers from east of the Hudson River.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:24 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 13):
Much to the dismay of the EWR (and CO/UA fans), the simple fact is that even EWR's dominant carrier views EWR as a "less desirable" airport when it comes to attracting premium customers from east of the Hudson River.

Why does every thread involoving EWR have to come down to this.................its a huge area and lots of people all those airports co-exist and are huge for a reason.
 
dartland
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:36 pm

Unsurprising that this thread got way off topic....

But to answer the OP's question: It's due to high % of connecting traffic. P.S. is for O&D high yielding traffic and JFK is by definition O&D (with some minor exceptions).

EWR / IAD are very high connecting traffic and not only is there a demand for more seats than P.S., but it also doesn't justify it from a yield perspective.

It has little (nothing?) to do with JFK being a more "premium" airport or anything like that. Remember SQ and their all business class flights from EWR? There is plenty of high yielding traffic at EWR to support premium flights, including people from Northern New Jersey and Manhattan. But on UA, it's a major connecting hub.
 
777Boeing777
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:00 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 3):
But let's face it, who wants to fly to IAD - unless you are making an onward connection!!

I live 5 minutes from IAD and fly out of there all the time. It's not perfect, but I've been to many airports way worse, i.e Philtydelphia.
 
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airzim
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:08 pm

Dedicated sub-fleets are expensive propositions given the lack of flexibility. A rather large reason for the removal of First on PS and the implementation of the same BusinessFirst seat is to increase flexibility and reliability while providing a consistent product.

Moving forward, United will have the option of subbing RR powered 757-200s or 767-400s or 767-300s with BF seating on the PS flights as demand or maintenance schedules require given the only difference between any of these planes is the number of seats per cabin, otherwise it is identical in every other way.

While there is certainly large premium demand from EWR to LAX/SFO, United needs increased flexibility through fleet utilization with the mix of 737s, 757, etc., as they dump capacity against Virgin and feed their hubs at either end. Making a guarantee of BF seating from EWR would prove logistically challenging and likely cost prohibitive (as it relates to fleet management).
 
laca773
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:19 pm

Quoting msp747 (Reply 9):

Um, ok. I would hardly call IAD awful. What's so terrible about the A gates? That you have to walk outside? You have easy access to the B concourse, so there are plenty of food and shopping options. The Z gates are bad, but will probably never get used again and will go away. Don't know the last time you used the FIS facility, but they just opened a brand new one in the last year or two. Obviously the C and D concourse is essentially the same thing and will be replaced in the near future

How many gates @ IAD still use mobile lounges for boarding, deplaning?

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 10):
Having said all that, the meal service was very consistent to what PS should be. Although it's pretty unacceptable to fly 739s with NO IFE on EWR/IAD-LAX/SFO. DTV product is a bit tacky for F as well, even if it's free..

Wow. I thought UA would be using the 739ERs (73J) with AVOD IFE on the transcon flights versus those that don't have it. I don't understand the logic behind what they are doing.


I think if the few transcon flights from DCA-LAX/SFO/SAN/SEA were doing surperb and high yielding, I think we'd see the airlines flying them lobbying for more slots. How are they doing now? In particular, the flights added in the past year on AA, DCA-LAX, US, DCA-SAN, UA/VX, DCA-SFO? AS has operated their DCA-LAX/SEA flight for several years as has US on DCA-PHX.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:43 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 18):
How many gates @ IAD still use mobile lounges for boarding, deplaning?

For boarding and deplaning exclusively? Those were the so-called "H Gate" planes.

The last airline I know of doing that was SV. But SV now boards at the B gates.

I've been on planes arriving after 2am that deboarded by mobile lounge rather that at a terminal gate but even that has been a while.
 
N62NA
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:13 pm

Quoting dartland (Reply 15):
It has little (nothing?) to do with JFK being a more "premium" airport or anything like that.

JFK has (historically) and remains (presently) overwhelmingly the airport where premium class service is offered - both on LAX/SFO as well as internationally.

I've always thought this to be a huge slap in the face to New Jersey, with all its Fortune 500 companies and wealthy suburbs. For some reason, the people of New Jersey have to "make do" with 737s and A320s for the most part to get to LAX/SFO.
 
777Boeing777
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:14 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 18):
How many gates @ IAD still use mobile lounges for boarding, deplaning?

AFAIK, none. The mobile lounges are used exclusively for transporting pax from the mid-field concourses to the main terminal and from the mid-field concourses to the International Arrivals Building. Last I was there (June 20th of this year), the only way to get from the main terminal to the mid-field concourses is by riding the Aerotrain.
 
msp747
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:17 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 18):

How many gates @ IAD still use mobile lounges for boarding, deplaning?

I haven't seen airlines do that at IAD in years, but maybe they still do on random occasions. It seems that everyone has moved into concourse B for the most part. The mobile lounges do far less these days at IAD. You can still take them to Concouse D, and they are used to bring international passengers from Concourse B to the FIS facility at the terminal.
 
777Boeing777
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:23 pm

Quoting msp747 (Reply 22):
You can still take them to Concouse D,

Still? All pax are directed downstairs where the new security checkpoint is, and I thought the Aerotrain is the only way now to get out to the mid-field concourses.
 
dfambro
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:25 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 8):
Did it once. Apparently, the fascination is "We can afford to do this every day, and you all can't."

Other than that, there's really nothing exceptional about the P.S. flights..

Even in the old configuration, the P.S. J and F seats were far easier to sleep in than the traditional domestic first seats. On a few occasions I have flown SFO-JFK-BOS instead of SFO-BOS just so I could sleep better.

I've always thought an SFO-BOS P.S red-eye flight would work, and they could re-position it to JFK in the morning for a day flight back west. Maybe that's too complicated to actually make it work.

[Edited 2013-07-31 10:37:29]
 
msp747
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:29 pm

Quoting 777Boeing777 (Reply 23):

Still? All pax are directed downstairs where the new security checkpoint is, and I thought the Aerotrain is the only way now to get out to the mid-field concourses

The Aerotrain doesn't go to the Concourse D side, just the C side, although even that's a hike since the station is where the future C/D concourse will be built. So they do still have the option if you are traveling out of D.
 
777Boeing777
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:32 pm

Quoting msp747 (Reply 25):
So they do still have the option if you are traveling out of D.

Can you catch the Mobile Lounge on the same level as security?
 
atp50
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:43 pm

As a UA hub, it seems absurd not to offer international BF customers connecting through EWR to LAX/SFO the p.s. product. This is not only the BF seat on the occasional 757-224ER on the EWR-LAX/SFO routes, but the BF-style service as well.

It would also be nice for EWR-based customers, too!
 
msp747
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:45 pm

Quoting 777Boeing777 (Reply 26):
Can you catch the Mobile Lounge on the same level as security?

Honestly, I'm not 100% sure because I haven't flown out of D since all of these changes were made. I think the access to the mobile lounges is on the same level as security. You may have to take an elevator up a level, but I'm not sure. Of course to catch the Aerotrain, you still have to go down a level after security
 
ytib
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:42 pm

If you go back years ago the reason why LAX-JFK existed with a premium class was the entertainment industry. The fare bucket for First on United was P (not F) and it was serviced with a fleet of 767 aircraft. Same reason why AA has the LAX-JFK flights. There was also the flights to SFO at that time as the financial industries would fill the plane.

p.s. was the change from the 767-200 to the 757 fleet and initially a low density premium product in all classes hence E+ all the way through Y. The product has changed greatly since the initial roll out of p.s. and some of this was driven by a change in the SAG contract saying members don't have to be in first class.

The reason why it goes to JFK is the perception and the fact that it has for quite a while, and changing it from JFK to EWR will just get those high dollar passengers flying on AA instead.

It has been discussed many times before but the market out of IAD does not really exist to justify this type of fleet running those routes or having selective flights which are p.s.
 
max999
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:48 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 8):
Did it once. Apparently, the fascination is "We can afford to do this every day, and you all can't."

Other than that, there's really nothing exceptional about the P.S. flights..

If that is the case, then other airlines have UA beat on their soft product. From what I understand, DL and AA offer complimentary lounge access for their transcon premium passengers. Also, DL offers amenity kits and catering is on the same level as BusinessElite.

Combined with the fact that all of the transcon carriers are now implementing flat beds on their flights. p.s. is not going to be competitive.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
N62NA
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:25 pm

Quoting atp50 (Reply 27):
As a UA hub, it seems absurd not to offer international BF customers connecting through EWR to LAX/SFO the p.s. product. This is not only the BF seat on the occasional 757-224ER on the EWR-LAX/SFO routes, but the BF-style service as well.

It would also be nice for EWR-based customers, too!

Yes, I agree. On the one hand we're told by some on here that EWR pulls lots of "high profile" and "premium" passengers. Well then why does UA specifically cater fo "high profile" and "premium" passengers with their "Premium Service (p.s.)" only from JFK? Are they "better people" over there taking flights at JFK compared to the people taking flights at EWR?

I suspect the answer is that there isn't nearly as much "high profile" and "premium" passenger traffic at EWR as we are led to believe.


Quoting ytib (Reply 29):
The reason why it goes to JFK is the perception and the fact that it has for quite a while, and changing it from JFK to EWR will just get those high dollar passengers flying on AA instead.


Yep. Those using p.s. won't change to using EWR.
 
a380787
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:32 pm

The issue with p.s. EWR-SFO/LAX is not lack of premium passengers, but frequency.

If UA made a special subfleet of p.s. (on top of their regular hub-to-hub sardine cans) out of EWR, they can probably only fill 4x daily to each town. That's hardly competitive.

Once and for all, can N62NA stop talking about EWR being not premium enough.
 
N62NA
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:01 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 32):
If UA made a special subfleet of p.s. (on top of their regular hub-to-hub sardine cans) out of EWR, they can probably only fill 4x daily to each town. That's hardly competitive.

4x p.s. EWR-LAX would be a great alternative. Why can't UA offer both "sardine can service" and p.s. service out of EWR? Would it be difficult to differentiate these services in the schedule listings so that prospective customers would have a difficult time figuring out which were the p.s. flights vs the "sardine can" flights?

Quoting a380787 (Reply 32):
Once and for all, can N62NA stop talking about EWR being not premium enough.

Then the second part of my statement is true: Are the "premium" people taking flights at JFK "better" compared to the "premium" people taking flights at EWR?
 
bsmalls
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:04 pm

Over the years this topic has been discussed ad nauseam but I guess that's what these forums are for but as someone who for the last few years has travelled between the New York area and LAX about 8 times annually, let me add my two cents as to one of the reasons why United never ran it's PS service from Newark.

My wife is a Gold member with United and being based in Newark travels out to Los Angeles for work twice a month, sometimes staying for two weeks and during those times I fly out weekends to be with her. That means me finding a cheap fare to LAX from Newark, and let me tell you, usually there are none. When comparing nonstop airfares on United on the same dates and times from either Newark or JFK to LAX, the nonstop fares from Newark are on average $75 to $150 (sometimes higher), more in economy. If I were to fly roundtrip on either Delta, United, or Virgin from JFK, I could usually find a round trip ticket for as little as $300. Newark, the average round trip ticket would run from $370 to $550, way higher fares. So, what I would usually do is buy a one way ticket on United from JFK to LAX and sit in economy plus (which offers less room than economy plus in non PS aircraft but that's for a different forum), usually paying $119 to $159. I would then use my wife's miles for a reward ticket back to Newark. United makes a killing on their EWR-LAX flights so why should the dump a PS aircraft on a sector that is already making them tons of money. The PS aircraft have less seating and being used in a market that has tons of elite members flying, I'm guessing most would be eligible to upgrade to business for the cost of a economy fare. Plus, up until Virgin's entry into the LAX, SFO market, besides American's 1 nonstop flight to LAX there was no non-stop competition I have to admit there has been a little fare relief in the market now that Virgin has arrived in Newark but the fares are still on average in economy slightly higher from Newark than JFK.
 
atp50
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:22 pm

I'm a Global Services member spending $10-20,000 per month with UA. Is my status as a business executive based in NJ using EWR less than that of the occasional celebrity traveling back to Hollywood from JFK?

I would think that UA's margins are being carried by business people, not celebrities. Perhaps UA should refocus its attention accordingly. It's 2013, not 1963. The historic glamour of JFK no longer exists. Except for DL's admirable efforts to improve their JFK facilities, most of JFK seems like a third-world airport by international standards. EWR (Terminal C) is much nicer, drawing quite a bit from NYC.

UA should add p.s. from EWR as I suggested earlier.
 
N62NA
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:24 pm

Quoting atp50 (Reply 35):
I'm a Global Services member spending $10-20,000 per month with UA. Is my status as a business executive based in NJ using EWR less than that of the occasional celebrity traveling back to Hollywood from JFK?

Thanks for posting that. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one here that feels as you do.
 
gigneil
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:44 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 18):
Wow. I thought UA would be using the 739ERs (73J) with AVOD IFE on the transcon flights versus those that don't have it. I don't understand the logic behind what they are doing.

They have zero 739ERs with AVOD.

Quoting atp50 (Reply 27):
This is not only the BF seat on the occasional 757-224ER on the EWR-LAX/SFO routes, but the BF-style service as well.

Since nobody else has pointed this out - 100% of LAX/SFO flights from EWR and IAD receive the p.s. meal service and are supposed to receive the same amenities.

NS
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:04 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 37):
100% of LAX/SFO flights from EWR and IAD receive the p.s. meal service

I thought it was just EWR, not IAD.

This is a recent photo of from a dinner flight SFO-IAD: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/21181559-post1118.html

If it was p.s. service, it would have had the shrimp appetizer as a separate plated course.
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jasoncrh
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:12 pm

Sorry - these are hub to hub routes. There is too much demand to fly such small gauge on these heavy connect - oriented markets. That's the main reason for no p.s. flights - the p.s. equipped planes are simply not big enough. Sorry.

And despite your business, there's still more business people paying higher fares at JFK than at EWR. With a limited fleet and with the need to provide the volume to sustain hub operations on both ends, UA has to put the aircraft where they are needed most. Volume for the hub is provided on the Newark hub routes, and PS for the smaller volume but higher fare passenger goes to JFK.

Sorry you dont agree with it. But, as others have pointed out, UA does fly the internationally configured planes on a few EWR flights a day to both cities. If you want the lie flat seats take one of those.

Quoting atp50 (Reply 35):
I'm a Global Services member spending $10-20,000 per month with UA. Is my status as a business executive based in NJ using EWR less than that of the occasional celebrity traveling back to Hollywood from JFK?

I would think that UA's margins are being carried by business people, not celebrities. Perhaps UA should refocus its attention accordingly. It's 2013, not 1963. The historic glamour of JFK no longer exists. Except for DL's admirable efforts to improve their JFK facilities, most of JFK seems like a third-world airport by international standards. EWR (Terminal C) is much nicer, drawing quite a bit from NYC.

UA should add p.s. from EWR as I suggested earlier.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:18 pm

I could see a mix of ps and regular flights EWR-LAX/SFO. UA is converting 15 752s for JFK-LAX/SFO service, which looks like 13 or 14 daily flights.

If 4 or 5 roundtrips were added EWR-LAX(4)/SFO(5), it would likely take another 10 units. Such a schedule would offer better maintenance and scheduling flexibility with swap-out capability at LAX and SFO.

The new service would need about 10 additional 752 units. 1.) they could all be additionally converted sUA 752 or 2.) a mix of some additionally converted sUA 752s plus some sCO 752s. The sCO 752s may see less TATL service with more widebodies coming into service and these 41 units have a lot of life left. Additionally, at EWR, TATL 752s would probably routed into/out of ps service efficiently.

Assuming sCO 752s get WiFi, IFE offering would be fairly consistent as would seating, except for the seating mix.
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N62NA
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:52 pm

Quoting Jasoncrh (Reply 39):
Sorry - these are hub to hub routes. There is too much demand to fly such small gauge on these heavy connect - oriented markets.

Small guage? EWR-LAX/SFO is mostly 737/A32S. And they just dumped a whole lot more on those routes to try and pummel VX to death.

Quoting Jasoncrh (Reply 39):
Volume for the hub is provided on the Newark hub routes, and PS for the smaller volume but higher fare passenger goes to JFK.

All the way from New Jersey? No. The New Jersey traveler is stuck with mostly 737/A32S aircraft.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 40):
I could see a mix of ps and regular flights EWR-LAX/SFO. .

Yes!
 
jayunited
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:56 am

Quoting atp50 (Reply 35):
I'm a Global Services member spending $10-20,000 per month with UA. Is my status as a business executive based in NJ using EWR less than that of the occasional celebrity traveling back to Hollywood from JFK?

I would think that UA's margins are being carried by business people, not celebrities. Perhaps UA should refocus its attention accordingly. It's 2013, not 1963. The historic glamour of JFK no longer exists. Except for DL's admirable efforts to improve their JFK facilities, most of JFK seems like a third-world airport by international standards. EWR (Terminal C) is much nicer, drawing quite a bit from NYC.

UA should add p.s. from EWR as I suggested earlier.

If you truly are a G.S. passenger I appreciate and thank you for your business. But on today 7-31-2013 United has 13 nonstop operating on the EWR-LAX route and 16 nonstops operating on the EWR-SFO route. Out of 13 or 16 nonstops which flights should be p.s. they all can not operate as a p.s. flight due to the demand that exist on these hub routes. To accommodate passengers like yourself United does operate sCO international 757-200 on these routes I do not know whether the departure time of the international 757 is compatible with your schedule but even if United did introduce p.s. service on EWR-LAX/SFO routes every flight would not be a p.s. flight. P.S. has nothing to do with the historic glamour of JFK or celebrities in Hollywood it is about a business model which works for United. When p.s. was first introduce people asked what about ORD-LAX/SFO United flat out said no not going to happen because you can not run p.s. service on every flight on hub to hub routes and even if United was to convert some flights to p.s. service some people would still be upset because the flights would not match their schedule.
 
N62NA
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:49 am

Thanks for your reply JayUnited.

Question for you. Looking at EWR-LAX, there are 752 operating at:

6:19a
7:59a
10:13a
1:15p
3:20p
4:55p
7:10p

Which ones of those operate with the international 757? If it were an easy "rule of thumb" that any 752 running on EWR-LAX was the international 757, that would probably be a pretty easy way for folks looking for that "extra added feature" of the beds in F easy to figure out.

The 752 schedule to LAX looks like what would be a pretty good p.s. schedule out of EWR to LAX.
 
hereandthere41
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:02 am

United's 757 sub-fleet doesn't operate on a closed loop between IAD/EWR and the West Coast. There are many other markets around the system that are serviced with this fleet and require the capacity. The p.s. product is on JFK because that's the market that supports it. Not IAD or EWR. Many of the hub to hub routes are full of COMP upgrades in the premium cabin. The p.s. premium cabin is primarily full of customers who have actually PAID for the product on that given flight. Whether someone wants to dismiss them as celebrity types or not, they're still the intended customer for the product: The one who actually supports the product with cash. If EWR and IAD could support a product like that, every U.S. airline would have already poured their resources into it. But they haven't. Why are we still talking about this?
 
tommy767
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX

Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:13 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 43):

Flight numbers between 1-100 or over 1000 would indicate a int'l 757 between EWR-LAX.

The rest of domestic 757s with overhead monitors and channel 9. It's easy to operate them on turns from SFO, LAX, and EWR. Routes can sometimes consist of LAX-EWR-BOS or LAX-EWR-IAH-LAX etc. The int'l birds require more lift from EWR on the TATL circuit. Still, they tend to get around to ORD, IAD, LAX, and DEN these days.

What baffles me is how UA plans to replace all these 757 with 739s in the next 2 years. Seems costly and unrealistic.

[Edited 2013-07-31 20:19:14]
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SurfandSnow
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:12 am

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):

I'm still trying to figure out why United offers their "Premium Service" out of JFK instead of EWR, their main NY hub...

That may be the case today, but certainly not when UA launched p.s. back in 2004. At that time, JFK was the airline's primary NY base for long haul operations - much more prominent than EWR, especially with respect to the West Coast. Things changed when CO entered Star Alliance and then merged with UA, but the airline still sees demand for this niche JFK-LAX/SFO service (albeit in a 2 class, rather than 3 class, configuration). Otherwise, they would be dropping it, not revamping it.

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
Anybody here think they should add PS service to EWR and/or IAD to LAX/SFO??

Absolutely not. EWR/IAD-LAX/SFO are hub to hub routes. They need to run higher density aircraft in order to provide feed for regional ops (i.e. California flights connecting to EWR-Upstate NY services) and transoceanic routes (i.e. California flights connecting to EWR-secondary European market services). The p.s. routes are targeted at O&D, whereby UA is willing to cede the Y component to other carriers in order to focus on premium pax. They can't do that on a hub-hub route!
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tommy767
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:23 am

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 46):

Although it would be nice to see a 767 turn on EWR/IAD-LAX. Last year a 764 was used on EWR-LAX rather consistently
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:06 am

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 46):
That may be the case today, but certainly not when UA launched p.s. back in 2004.

I'm surprised that it took this long for someone to point out that EWR has only been a UA hub for about 2-3 years, when p.s. had already been around for a while and established at JFK.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word, and doesn't even make sense.
 
jasoncrh
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RE: Should EWR Or IAD Get United PS Service To LAX/SFO

Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:43 pm

the 757 Ps planes have 114 coach seats. That's way fewer than all but the 737-700 series as well as the A320. the PS planes have people who actually pay, not upgrade, to premium cabins. for hub to hub routes, UA needs lots of seats, and that's what the combination of larger coach cabins plus additional frequencies delivers.

Agree wholeheartedly with everything SurfandSnow says..

Quoting N62NA (Reply 41):

Quoting Jasoncrh (Reply 39):
Sorry - these are hub to hub routes. There is too much demand to fly such small gauge on these heavy connect - oriented markets.

Small guage? EWR-LAX/SFO is mostly 737/A32S. And they just dumped a whole lot more on those routes to try and pummel VX to death.

Quoting Jasoncrh (Reply 39):
Volume for the hub is provided on the Newark hub routes, and PS for the smaller volume but higher fare passenger goes to JFK.

All the way from New Jersey? No. The New Jersey traveler is stuck with mostly 737/A32S aircraft.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 40):
I could see a mix of ps and regular flights EWR-LAX/SFO. .

Yes!

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