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psa1011
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BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:54 pm

Once again I have found what look like jokes on wiki pages: both the LHR & STL pages show LHR-STL starting 6/1/14. Is this for real?
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:56 pm

Anyone can post on wiki. I can post OMA-NRT starting 5/1/2014 on japan airlines right now for both cities.
 
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psa1011
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:03 pm

Guess someone's extremely bored.
 
yegbey01
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:12 pm

Well, the real question should be: Why does a metro area of 2.8 million in the US not have a direct link to LHR.

I find it extremely that STL could not secure service overseas.

Compare that with much smaller cities in Canada (Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa and Halifax), I am always amazed how overseas traffic is so concentrated in the US.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:15 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 3):
Well, the real question should be: Why does a metro area of 2.8 million in the US not have a direct link to LHR.

STL had a non-stop to LGW until about 2002 when AA killed it, along with most of TWA's former STL flights.

But yes, I view STL as a mid-size market that can support one flight to Europe like PDX, SAN, PHX, PIT, RDU, CLE, TPA, etc.
 
planespotting
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:30 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 4):
But yes, I view STL as a mid-size market that can support one flight to Europe like PDX, SAN, PHX, PIT, RDU, CLE, TPA, etc.

Yep - STL is the 19th largest MSA in the country, ahead of BWI, DEN, PIT, CLT, PDX, MCO, CVG, and CLE to name a few. I'm sure a 6x/week 767 or 777 (or 787) for BA could probably make it work.
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BHMNONREV
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:58 pm

Well, with me originally hailing from Missouri and St. Louis in particular I guess BA will just have to "Show Me". I will believe it when I see it after so much has been talked about for so long, between AA/BA to LHR and LH to FRA.

Could STL support an LHR link? Sure, provided the local business community chips in with some jack which they have been long loath to do. Filling the back and the belly of a 767 should not be too much of a problem, but as the problem with AA and TWA before that the premium cabin was the issue.

My guess is this would have more to do with beyond London connectivity than just LHR-STL O&D. Just not a lot of the low-hanging fruit left to be found...
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:01 pm

I can see the reinstatement of MSY before STL.

STL on BA metal..? Just can't see it.  

Rgds
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MSYtristar
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:03 pm

I wish STL luck and I hope the city does get a Euro nonstop again one day.

MSY for example is putting together a plan to restore a nonstop link to London and/or Paris, but whether it starts or not is based on financial incentives from the state and local businesses. That's the name of the game for second tier metros nowadays...money talks. Without hub feed, the best bet for a lot of these cities would be 757 service, but those unfortunately do not have the range for many markets.
 
jmy007
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:14 pm

It no longer shows on Lamberts Wiki site, though it does still appear on Heathrow's.

It's highly unlikely, though it's nice to dream. AA last serivce to LGW was in November of 2003
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BoeingGuy
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:25 pm

Quoting jmy007 (Reply 9):
It's highly unlikely, though it's nice to dream. AA last serivce to LGW was in November of 2003

I think you mean AA's last service to LGW from STL was in 11/2003.

I can't speak specifically on whether BA or AA intends to resume STL-LHR, but that is the kind of market that the 787 is for. It's meant to make less dense routes like SAN-NRT, SJC-NRT or STL-LHR to be operated profitably. I could see that route coming back sometime.
 
jmy007
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:51 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 10):
I think you mean AA's last service to LGW from STL was in 11/2003.

Yes, that's what I meant, thanks!

I think if BA would launch service to STL, I think we'd of heard it hear on a.net well before a random joker put it on Wiki.

That being said, I do agree that a 787 would work nicely, if the St.Louis can come up with a nice compensation package to lure BA or any carrier for that matter intrested in a route to Europe (such as RDU with AA)

I think that package is what STL hasn't/won't/or has come up short with in attracting European service.
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Viscount724
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:01 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 3):
Compare that with much smaller cities in Canada (Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa and Halifax), I am always amazed how overseas traffic is so concentrated in the US.

I wouldn't say LHR-U.S. traffic is that concentrated with nonstop service to 22 U.S. cities.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 4):
STL had a non-stop to LGW until about 2002 when AA killed it, along with most of TWA's former STL flights.

I think STL's first nonstop transatlantic service was British Caledonian to LGW which I believe started in April 1980 with 707s and was upguaged to DC-10s a few months later when STL became an intermediate stop to DFW. The nonstop STL-LGW service was dropped a couple of years later and STL then became a tag-on from ATL. If memory correct they reinstated nonstop service to LGW again briefly somewhat later and had a feeder arrangement with Ozark, before dropping STL (and several other US destinations) when B.Cal ran into financial problems in the mid-80s which prompted their merger with BA in 1987. They would have lost their feed from Ozark anyway in 1986 when Ozark merged with TWA.
 
jmy007
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:13 pm

If memory serves, B.Cal stop STL altogether in late 1984. There was was no London service for about 6 months or so, when TWA took over the route authority and started flying STL-LGW in 1985 (along with CDG and FRA at about the same time)
-btw, there is a great picture floating around the web of a B.Cal DC-10 doing a fly over of downtown St. Louis.
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jfk777
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:23 pm

How can ST Louis possibly support a LHR flight when they no longer have a hub there. Then the biggest customer, Anhauser-Busch was sold to Imbev back in 2008. AB use to be liberal with their travel policies, Imbev is very restrictive.
 
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psa1011
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:26 pm

Quoting jmy007 (Reply 13):
If memory serves, B.Cal stop STL altogether in late 1984. There was was no London service for about 6 months or so, when TWA took over the route authority and started flying STL-LGW in 1985 (along with CDG and FRA at about the same time)

I knew TWA flew STL-LHR/CDG, but didn't know FRA was ever flown.
 
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:33 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 3):
Canada (Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa and Halifax),

Calgary, Edmonton = Oil traffic. STL no oil
Ottawa = Gov't traffic. STL no Govt traffic
Halifax can be made with a standard config 319. STL..not in range of a narrow body.
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Viscount724
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:38 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 16):
Halifax can be made with a standard config 319.

YHZ-LHR would be 300 to 400 miles further than any other AC A319 nonstops. They haven't operated a narrow-body on YHZ-LHR since the DC-8 was retired. They do use the A319 on YYT-LHR but that's 471 nm shorter than YHZ-LHR.
 
jmy007
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:43 pm

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 15):
I knew TWA flew STL-LHR/CDG, but didn't know FRA was ever flown.

Yes, they flew it off and on seasonly until the early to mid 90's. It was TW748, iirc.
Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
 
AS737MAX
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:46 pm

For example, in PDX (where i am) our AMS and NRT service is sustained mostly because of Nike HQ, Adidas North America HQ, Vestas N.A. HQ, Freightliner, large Intel Presence. Are there any large businesses HQ'ed in STL that would help sustain STL-LHR?
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point2point
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:10 pm

Quoting planespotting (Reply 5):
Yep - STL is the 19th largest MSA in the country, ahead of BWI, DEN, PIT, CLT, PDX, MCO, CVG, and CLE to name a few.

Actually the Combined Statistical population for the Denver-Aurora-Boulder-Greeley area is about 3.2M est. for 2012, and to the south the Colorado Springs metro area may add some 600K to the catchment to DEN, while the same number for the St. Louis-Farmington-Centralia is 2.9M, while the Cape Girardeau-Sikeston Combined Statistical Area to the south may add some 140K to the catchment of STL. A difference in the catchements of some 800K?

I agree that STL could probably support a nonstop into LHR....... but to the airlines...... there are probably so many more lucrative routes to fly from LHR with slot-pairs selling now for some what..... $40M?

I also think that it's good that DEN got in a while ago a proved this a good route for BA...... they keep flying it so...... but had DEN not had its LRH link today...... I think that under the present conditions, it would be hard for even them to get a LHR slot pair. The same for most mid-sized U.S. cities at this point. Maybe things could change a bit if LHR ever gets another runway and can handle more flights.

That all being said....... it would be great and quite a feat if STL could manage to land a nonstop into LHR. Even LGW could be a good catch. All the best to the STL management and those involved to get this flight.

 
 
SESGDL
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:37 pm

STL-Europe is not going to happen anytime soon. STL as a market is simply not large enough a market to support it. While STL-London is not tiny, it's also not very large and has declined considerably, with less than 40 PDEW O&D. The next largest market to Europe, Frankfurt, is a little over half that. Paris is even smaller. Having less than 150 O&D PDEW between STL and all of Europe's major markets is not going to support a flight without a hub at STL. The reason STL-London, Paris, and Frankfurt once existed is because of TW's massive hub there. STL once had over 50,000 daily seats and was larger than current hubs for AA in ORD, UA in DEN, and DL in MSP and DTW. Without those immense connections, STL-Europe is simply not a possibility.

Jeremy
 
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:05 am

The rule of a.net is, the less likely something is to happen, the longer the thread discussion such a thing is, and service from London to St Louis is no exception apparently - when a straight "no way" would do, we're already past 20 replies and my prediction is 40+.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):
How can St Louis possibly support a LHR flight when they no longer have a hub there.

Exactly. When TWA flew to London, they had 100 flights coming in to feed it. Nowadays there's no domestic feed, which probably leaves about 12 EU-bound pax per day originating at STL.

Quoting planespotting (Reply 5):
Yep - STL is the 19th largest MSA in the country, ahead of BWI, DEN, PIT, CLT, PDX, MCO, CVG, and CLE to name a few

OK well the "W" in "BWI" refers to the nation's capital; DEN is way bigger than STL, sorry; PIT no TATL service; CLT is one of the biggest hubs in the USA providing USAir with mega feed, and the city is the second biggest banking centre in North America, generating lots of the kind of high-end business traffic that would be like sci fi to STL; PDX has Nike, yet just one TATL service; MCO, are you joking? the biggest leisure destination in North America; CVG only has one flight to CDG and that relies on mega (albeit diminishing) feed by DL; CLE no TATL service. So you've listed some cities that have no TATL service, and others (Washington, Orlando) that have millions of European visitors a year.

STL will get TATL service when someone builds a mega hub there like TWA did, or when they find lots of oil under that big arch thing (which I would like to visit).
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Viscount724
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:15 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 22):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):
How can St Louis possibly support a LHR flight when they no longer have a hub there.

Exactly. When TWA flew to London, they had 100 flights coming in to feed it. Nowadays there's no domestic feed, which probably leaves about 12 EU-bound pax per day originating at STL.

AA still operates RDU-LHR although RDU is no longer a hub (it was a small AA hub fairly briefly). RDU metro area population is also significantly smaller than STL.
 
PITrules
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:26 am

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 7):
I can see the reinstatement of MSY before STL

STL metro area is more than twice as large as New Orleans, and is a much larger business center. Probably a better location for freight forwarders as well.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 22):
OK well the "W" in "BWI" refers to the nation's capital; DEN is way bigger than STL, sorry; PIT no TATL service; CLT is one of the biggest hubs in the USA providing USAir with mega feed, and the city is the second biggest banking centre in North America, generating lots of the kind of high-end business traffic that would be like sci fi to STL; PDX has Nike, yet just one TATL service; MCO, are you joking? the biggest leisure destination in North America; CVG only has one flight to CDG and that relies on mega (albeit diminishing) feed by DL; CLE no TATL service. So you've listed some cities that have no TATL service, and others (Washington, Orlando) that have millions of European visitors a year.

PIT has had TATL service for 5 years now, although only on a seasonal basis.
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BigGSFO
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:28 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):
AA still operates RDU-LHR although RDU is no longer a hub (it was a small AA hub fairly briefly). RDU metro area population is also significantly smaller than STL.

This flight is heavily subsidized by local corporations (one of the pharmas I believe).
 
cedarjet
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:28 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):
AA still operates RDU-LHR although RDU is no longer a hub (it was a small AA hub fairly briefly). RDU metro area population is also significantly smaller than STL.

It isn't representative - GlaxoSmithKline guarantee a number of tickets per year as they have a major operation at RDU in the Research Triangle Park and another HQ right next to LHR. Bear in mind the flight is only op by 767 btw. If STL could lure such a corporation to their city, perhaps then they would finally be back in the TATL map. Given it's location in the middle of the country, perhaps one day they will. Meanwhile, travellers to and from STL will continue to fly via ORD et al.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
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ADent
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:33 am

Does STL still have a lot of AA frequent fliers? BA would pick up many of those travelers, especially with an AA code share on it.

787 would be a good plane to try a market like this.

Still do not see the real demand for this that can't be met by connecting somewhere.
 
BMI727
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:40 am

Quoting psa1011 (Thread starter):
Is this for real?

No.

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 3):
Compare that with much smaller cities in Canada (Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa and Halifax), I am always amazed how overseas traffic is so concentrated in the US.

Canadians travel further more often. And some live near oil.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 10):
I can't speak specifically on whether BA or AA intends to resume STL-LHR, but that is the kind of market that the 787 is for.

You wouldn't waste valuable slots on St. Louis, and no other market would stand a chance.

Quoting AS737MAX (Reply 19):
Are there any large businesses HQ'ed in STL that would help sustain STL-LHR?

Quite a few, but they won't get together and write a check, so there won't be a transatlantic flight.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 22):
and the city is the second biggest banking centre in North America, generating lots of the kind of high-end business traffic that would be like sci fi to STL

The St. Louis area is actually home to three major financial firms, but they are mostly consumer oriented.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 24):
STL metro area is more than twice as large as New Orleans, and is a much larger business center. Probably a better location for freight forwarders as well.

Not if you're trying to fly to South America and carry flowers. (Or other plant products)
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
SESGDL
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:50 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 22):
Exactly. When TWA flew to London, they had 100 flights coming in to feed it. Nowadays there's no domestic feed, which probably leaves about 12 EU-bound pax per day originating at STL.

This is wayyy off. STL-London alone is nearly 40 O&D PDEW. 12? Really? This is a metro area of nearly 3 million we're talking about, not Dubuque, Iowa.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 22):
OK well the "W" in "BWI" refers to the nation's capital; DEN is way bigger than STL, sorry; PIT no TATL service;

Baltimore provides very little in the way of O&D for DCA and IAD to feed to Europe. DEN is not way bigger than STL, but actually quite a bit smaller. PIT does have TATL service. Good use of facts though...  

Jeremy
 
PITrules
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:52 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 28):

Not if you're trying to fly to South America and carry flowers. (Or other plant products)

How is that? I don't think MSY has any flights to S. America. BTW, flowers don't go to South America, they come from South America. Incidentally, Mid America actually did (and still might) have all cargo flights specifically targeting the S. America flower market.

Regardless, flowers are a tiny fraction of the overall cargo market between the US and Europe, and that portion is most likely dominated by MIA. I'd still put my money on STL being in a better position overall for air cargo to/from Europe than MSY.
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MSYtristar
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:08 am

Quoting PITrules (Reply 24):
STL metro area is more than twice as large as New Orleans, and is a much larger business center. Probably a better location for freight forwarders as well.

Unlike STL, however, MSY would be more of a draw for European tourists. It's a destination city, and its regional business climate is nothing to sneeze at. I'm not arguing that STL wouldn't get a flight before MSY based on its population and business base, but based on overall destination appeal, I wouldn't necessarily bet against MSY getting a flight first. It's going to come down to money regardless. MSY is actively pursuing a flight to Europe and is counting on incentives to seal the deal. I'm quite sure STL could do the same.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 30):
I'd still put my money on STL being in a better position overall for air cargo to/from Europe than MSY.

Right now, yes without question. Most of the cargo traffic going through New Orleans is going via ship and barge. When the new air terminal opens in 2018 and the land where the current facility is located is converted into an intermodal facility tying together sea, rail, land, and air, that could potentially change. Who knows?
 
cornishsimon
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:25 am

If BA were to serve STL or indeed MSY these would be unlikely to be served ex LHR, however I suppose at a long shot they could get service to LGW on either BA metal or on an AA bird with BA flight number carried also.

The problem for this would be the lack of BA/OW feed into LGW as it currently stands.


cs
 
MIflyer12
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:48 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 22):

STL will get TATL service when someone builds a mega hub there like TWA did, or when they find lots of oil under that big arch thing (which I would like to visit).

It is impressive, but don't set aside more than about three hours for it!
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:24 am

I would have thought even back in the day when AA scaled back to a mini hub it would have been possible but now not sure sure. Maybe but it would probably have to have some kick ins in the form of a revenue guarantee supported by local businesses
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:31 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 29):
DEN is not way bigger than STL, but actually quite a bit smaller. PIT does have TATL service. Good use of facts though...  

The population is pointless discussion.

ts the o&d, o&d willingness to pay a premium for a non-stop, connection potential, and number of people willing to pay for premium class seats. DEN absolutely crushes STL in all of these measures. BA fills its premium cabins out of DEN and o&d is much much larger. It doesn't matter that DEN or any city is smaller it has the economy and people to sustain the service. STL probably has very little premium traffic and very little willingness to pay a premium for a non-stop. Its just way too small a market and wouldn't work even if LHR slots were not so valuable. The fact that LHR slots are so valuable makes this have no chance.
 
ORDJOE
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:10 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 35):
STL probably has very little premium traffic and very little willingness to pay a premium for a non-stop. Its just way too small a market and wouldn't work even if LHR slots were not so valuable.

Agreed Denver is far economically better off than STL I just do not see many paying to sit on the north side of the cabin coming from STL


I think yes they probably could fill a 767 or a 787, but that is not saying much. The biggest issue most likely is BA/AA might get 1million or so of revenue by tying up a plane and slot for STL versus a 2 million in revenue for the same plane and slot in another city.

While not likely I would admit, but DL seems willing to take on some non hub international routes perhaps one day they could try for STL-CDG or AMS.
 
r2rho
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:47 am

Quoting ORDJOE (Reply 36):
I think yes they probably could fill a 767 or a 787, but that is not saying much. The biggest issue most likely is BA/AA might get 1million or so of revenue by tying up a plane and slot for STL versus a 2 million in revenue for the same plane and slot in another city.

I think a 767 or 788 (not necessarily daily) would work to LHR if it had plenty of slots to offer...which it doesn't. So lower-yielding connection-dependent destinations, like STL, have no chance against high-yielding O&D. And out of all EU destinations, LON would be the only one that would work... there is LGW...but it would be too O&D dependent on both ends, so little chance there too.
 
HPRamper
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:43 pm

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 29):
DEN is not way bigger than STL, but actually quite a bit smaller.

Using straight MSA listings is disingenuous. They do not include the COS metro for Denver for which most passengers choose DEN. DEN draws from most of Colorado plus half of Wyoming and a chunk of Nebraska. STL is limited in catchment due to MCI taking half the state's traffic. This is of course not taking into consideration the smaller airports in the state. There is more dilution in air traffic around STL than there is in the Mountain West.
 
AA94
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:44 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 22):
OK well the "W" in "BWI" refers to the nation's capital; DEN is way bigger than STL, sorry; PIT no TATL service; CLT is one of the biggest hubs in the USA providing USAir with mega feed, and the city is the second biggest banking centre in North America, generating lots of the kind of high-end business traffic that would be like sci fi to STL; PDX has Nike, yet just one TATL service; MCO, are you joking? the biggest leisure destination in North America; CVG only has one flight to CDG and that relies on mega (albeit diminishing) feed by DL; CLE no TATL service. So you've listed some cities that have no TATL service, and others (Washington, Orlando) that have millions of European visitors a year.

As a BWI-er, I'd love to agree with you, but the reality is that BWI provides very little in the way of international visitors to the Washington area. Visitors from Europe and beyond are much more likely to visit the DC area by way of IAD, which has the largest international airline presence in the region. BWI is really the airport for suburban Marylanders to get their families to Disney World or Cancun. BWI-LHR is the only scheduled TATL service we have.

Quoting ORDJOE (Reply 36):
I think yes they probably could fill a 767 or a 787, but that is not saying much. The biggest issue most likely is BA/AA might get 1million or so of revenue by tying up a plane and slot for STL versus a 2 million in revenue for the same plane and slot in another city.

  

... and this is the key, I think. BA could probably fill the plane enough to make it cost effective, but there are other destinations that are likely more lucrative and better use of a LHR slot.
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jfk777
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:50 pm

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 15):

I knew TWA flew STL-LHR/CDG, but didn't know FRA was ever flown.

TWA did fly many LHR routes but NOT from ST. Louis. TWA flew from St.Louis to LGW.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):
AA still operates RDU-LHR although RDU is no longer a hub (it was a small AA hub fairly briefly). RDU metro area population is also significantly smaller than STL.

AA has a contract with a NC based drug company which supplies enough revenue for the flight.
 
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psa1011
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:47 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 40):
TWA did fly many LHR routes but NOT from ST. Louis. TWA flew from St.Louis to LGW.

Correct, I made a typo.
 
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:21 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 22):
DEN is way bigger than STL, sorry

The city itself is not "way bigger." In fact, the two MSAs are on a pretty even keel.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 29):
DEN is not way bigger than STL, but actually quite a bit smaller.

DEN is not quite a bit smaller than STL. MSA is tricky because it doesn't include certain parts of Colorado that have no alternative but to use DEN such as Boulder and Greeley. When you include those, the MSA jumps to about 3.1 million.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 38):
Using straight MSA listings is disingenuous. They do not include the COS metro for Denver for which most passengers choose DEN. DEN draws from most of Colorado plus half of Wyoming and a chunk of Nebraska.

Exactly. I don't know what STL's catchment area is, but DENs is absolutely larger than just the DEN MSA. Add in the fact that it's the largest city in the Intermountain West and home to a lot of regional headquarters, rather geographically isolated from other large cities, and you get a lot more traffic than other similarly sized cities.
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:46 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 26):
It isn't representative - GlaxoSmithKline guarantee a number of tickets per year as they have a major operation at RDU in the Research Triangle Park and another HQ right next to LHR.

That would explain why the flight operates in LHR and not in another LON (read cheaper) airport)

Quote:
Bear in mind the flight is only op by 767 btw. If STL could lure such a corporation to their city, perhaps then they would finally be back in the TATL map. Given it's location in the middle of the country, perhaps one day they will...

Egg before the chicken, STL have to get a corporation or corporations to sponsor a LON flight.

Quoting cornishsimon (Reply 32):
If BA were to serve STL or indeed MSY these would be unlikely to be served ex LHR, however I suppose at a long shot they could get service to LGW on either BA metal or on an AA bird with BA flight number carried also.

BA MSY may work from LGW, since as a destination stands in the same group as MCO and TPA.
BA STL would be another thing; Those BA LHR connections would make very attractive any BA LHR-STL service.

Seems U.S. airports looking for international service always focus in a LON or PAR or TYO non-stop flight, as it seems a flight to MEX or to a hub in Latin America isn't worth asking for.
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flylku
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:51 pm

[quoteHow can ST Louis possibly support a LHR flight when they no longer have a hub there. Then the biggest customer, Anhauser-Busch was sold to Imbev back in 2008. AB use to be liberal with their travel policies, Imbev is very restrictive.jfk777,reply=14]
[/quote]

The hub is on the east side of the Atlantic.
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jfk777
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:26 pm

Quoting flylku (Reply 44):
[quoteHow can ST Louis possibly support a LHR flight when they no longer have a hub there. Then the biggest customer, Anhauser-Busch was sold to Imbev back in 2008. AB use to be liberal with their travel policies, Imbev is very restrictive.jfk777,reply=14]

The hub is on the east side of the Atlantic.[/quote]

By that reasoning remember when TWA flew to LGW it was a bigger hub then today. BY that thinking BA should fly to Kansas City, Detroit, Hartford, New Orleans, Portland, OR and many other large small cities.
 
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:40 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 45):
BY that thinking BA should fly to Kansas City, Detroit, Hartford, New Orleans, Portland, OR and many other large small cities.

BA to MCI? STL stands more of a chance.
BA flew to DTW and MSY before.
Had BA B757, BDL could have worked but from LHR, doubt from LGW because lack of European connections.
Seems both DTW and PDX already do have LON flights.
Other airports in the same group for BA LON flights would be: PIT, IND, MKE, MSP, CLE (UA's turf), CVG..
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flylku
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:47 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 45):

By that reasoning remember when TWA flew to LGW it was a bigger hub then today. BY that thinking BA should fly to Kansas City, Detroit, Hartford, New Orleans, Portland, OR and many other large small cities.

I am just pointing out, indirectly, that often we are North America centric in our view. Take ANA (or is it JAL) SAN-NRT. SAN is not a hub but NRT certainly is.
...are we there yet?
 
AS737MAX
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:47 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 45):

I've thought about what if BA started PDX-LHR with the 787, but the slots aren't readily available considering DL just paid AZ $40 million for SEA-LHR
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RE: BA STL-LHR In 2014?

Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:33 pm

Quoting AS737MAX (Reply 48):
but the slots aren't readily available considering DL just paid AZ $40 million for SEA-LHR

I think BA is more constrained by the lack of planes to fly new routes as they have a good number of ex-BD slots to play with if they wanted to introduce more long-haul destinations. BA/IAG have made it clear that when they have extra capacity then new routes will follow - whether they will include STL/CVG etc etc will remain to be seen - but I guess such places as CGK;KUL; and mainland China may well have a higher priority.

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