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KarelXWB
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EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:48 am

EK will deploy a second daily flight on DXB - AMS from December 4, 2013. The service will be operated by a Boeing 777-200LR aircraft which will add 266 available seats on the route.

Article in Dutch:
http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nl-NL...t_tweede_toestel_in_naar_Amsterdam

[Edited 2013-07-31 03:54:59]
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
paneuropean
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:52 am

Man, you are quick! :S

DXB- AMS 1610- 2040
AMS- DXB 2210- 0740

[Edited 2013-07-31 03:53:31]
 
imatams
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:13 am

Interesting quote from the article (translated)

"Amsterdam has proven to be a strong market for First- and Business Class travel" (Emirates manager)

So much for AMS being a low-yielding market? How is it that Emirates can make its premium product work for AMS while, apparently, many others cannot?
 
dbo861
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:29 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
The service will be operated by a Boeing 777-200LR aircraft which will add 266 available seats on the route.

This is a very short route for a 772LR. Is there a lot of slack in their 772LR fleet?
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:31 am

Quoting imatams (Reply 2):

So much for AMS being a low-yielding market? How is it that Emirates can make its premium product work for AMS while, apparently, many others cannot?

I'd thinking maybe to do with the stage length compared to say AMS-SIN or AMS-HKG and fact that there are probably more connecting options via DXB compared to SIN/HKG due to geographical location. EK maybe have a lower cost base aswell?
 
dalca
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:41 am

I wonder if it also isn't to counter the fact about EY/KL now getting pretty strong bonds with each other.
Zanair flight, please hold on finals as we have to clear rhino's off the runway. Next flight KUL-FRA-AMS Flown in A319,A
 
behramjee
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:43 am

Quoting imatams (Reply 2):
So much for AMS being a low-yielding market? How is it that Emirates can make its premium product work for AMS while, apparently, many others cannot?

because of its ability to brand market itself very well to this market segment + in turn walk the talk by backing it up with a 5 star on board product along with an excellent frequent flier program combined with an awesome network via DXB.

this is why like I wrote in a previous EK thread, it has great potential flying trans-atlantic CDG-LAX daily with an A380 !
 
HB-IWC
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:44 am

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 3):
This is a very short route for a 772LR. Is there a lot of slack in their 772LR fleet?

The only veritable ULH flights on the roster for the EK B77L fleet next winter are one daily DXB SEA and one daily DXB DFW. Other destinations for the type include Tokyo Haneda, Lisbon, Geneva, Lyon and now Amsterdam, which will inherit the B77L from the Hamburg route, which will in turn upgauge to B77W.
 
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frigatebird
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:50 am

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 3):
This is a very short route for a 772LR. Is there a lot of slack in their 772LR fleet?

The 77W already has so much range, there are not many routes left only suitable for the 77L. I believe the main reason why it is used is because it is one of the smallest capacity planes in the EK fleet. Only the 3-class A332 has less seats, but those are on their way out.

EK started AMS a couple of years ago with the 77L as well, it has grown to a A380 pretty quickly, so I wouldn't be surprised to see this second daily to grow to a larger aircraft as well (I personally hope for the A350-1000 as soon as EK gets these    )
146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
 
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yellowtail
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 7):
The only veritable ULH flights on the roster for the EK B77L fleet next winter are one daily DXB SEA and one daily DXB DFW. Other destinations for the type include Tokyo Haneda, Lisbon, Geneva, Lyon and now Amsterdam, which will inherit the B77L from the Hamburg route, which will in turn upgauge to B77W.

IAH too.....the 77L is not a that much of a dog....they will use it on "shorter flights" in between the longer flights for utilization purposes. Many carriers will do this with their long haul fleet, especially where capacity is needed on some short /medium haul routes.....LAX-IAH is a good example, LHR-MAD another
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
hohd
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:49 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 6):

While EK may be a great airline, its frequent flyer program is not when compared to US carriers, especially UA and Star Alliance. In fact that the main thing which will prevent them from expanding much is their weak frequent flyer program. Under Skywards, there is no one way redemption, plus you get only 50% for many discount fares and the availability is no better than UA.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:38 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 9):
IAH too.....the 77L is not a that much of a dog....they will use it on "shorter flights" in between the longer flights for utilization purposes.

IAH hasn't been operated with B77L for quite a while now. All DXB IAH flights operate with B77W and the route is expected to go A388 in the mid term future. As EK is only operating its B77L fleet on two daily ULH fleets next winter, the shorter sectors are much more than filling up between ULH flights, not unlike the 9 remaining A345s, which now operate with average stage lengths of about 6 hours.
 
AyostoLeon
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:39 pm

Quoting hohd (Reply 10):
, there is no one way redemption

This is not completely true: it is possible to obtain one-way redemptions, provided seats have been made available and are not blocked at the time of making the request, but only if wishing to redeem a flexi fare. They are not available for saver fares which means that the amount of miles is required is greater. The main problem arises from there being more people wishing to book a flight by redemption than there are seats available.

It is true that for many fares the miles awarded are only 50% of a flexi fare. But that is similar to other airlines that offer reduced rewards for various fare classes including 0%, 25% or 50%.
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
Amsterdam
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:43 pm

Does anyone know the maximum frequencies agreed between the netherlands and dubai/uae?
 
SR 103
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:43 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 6):
an excellent frequent flier program

Are you a member of this program?

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 7):
The only veritable ULH flights on the roster for the EK B77L fleet next winter are one daily DXB SEA and one daily DXB DFW.

Has the schedule been finalized for W13 or are there more changes to come?
 
HB-IWC
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:49 pm

Quoting SR 103 (Reply 14):
Has the schedule been finalized for W13 or are there more changes to come?

There are more changes in the pipeline.
 
SR 103
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:59 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 15):
There are more changes in the pipeline.

Care to share?   (Drop me an e-mail when you get the chance)
 
factsonly
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:37 pm

It is getting busier on the DXB-AMS-DXB route every season. See the schedule for W13 below.



- dep. DXB 01:55 - arr. AMS 06:15 KL 0428 Non-Stop B772 Daily
- dep. DXB 07:55 - arr. AMS 12:05 KL 0430 Non-Stop B772 Tue, Wed, Fri, Sun
- dep. DXB 08:20 - arr. AMS 12:40 EK 147 Non-Stop A388 Daily
- dep. DXB 09:00 - arr. AMS 15:20 OR 410 1-stop B738 Fri
- dep. DXB 09:10 - arr. AMS 15:25 OR 408 1-stop B738 Mon
- dep. DXB 16.10 - arr. AMS 20.40 EK 149 Non-stop B77L Daily
- dep. DXB 17:35 - arr. AMS 23:35 HV 6902 Non-Stop B738 Thue, Thu, Sat
- dep. DXB 23:00 - arr. AMS 04:05 OR 464 Non-stop B738 Sat



- dep. AMS 06:35 - arr. DXB 16:35 HV 6901 Non-Stop B738 Tue, Thu, Sat
- dep. AMS 14:30 - arr. DXB 23:59 KL 0427 Non-Stop B777 Daily
- dep. AMS 14:40 - arr. DXB 00:15 EK 148 Non-Stop A388 Daily
- dep. AMS 20:45 - arr. DXB 06:05 KL 0429 Non-Stop B772 Mon, Tue, Thu, Sat
- dep. AMS 21:50 - arr. DXB 08:00 OR 407 Non-Stop B738 Thu, Sun
- dep. AMS 22.10 - arr. DXB 07.40 EK 150 Non-stop B77L Daily
- dep. AMS 23:30 - arr. DXB 09:40 OR 463 Non-Stop B738 Fri

Would anyone care to guess how the two B738 operators HV & OR will do now EK is extending its operations.
 
factsonly
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:10 pm

OK, this may be going of topic a little, but it will be interesting to see how both EY and EK fair this winter on their new evening flights out of AMS. Yes, competition between the two seems to be heating up.

EY launched AUH-AMS-AUH last May, so W13 will be the airline's first Winter season into AMS, but the airline does so in close cooperation with KLM, GA, TP and VA (all codeshare on EY). In addition EY has an extensive codeshare into AMS with KLM, Aer Lingus, FlyBe, Air Portugal and CSA to feed its AUH departure.

Today EK launched its 2nd frequency DXB-AMS-DXB and thsi flight will depart just 10 minutes after EY. The difference between the two carriers is that EK has no feed whatsoever, while EY has plenty of feed into its AMS departure. EK is therefore wholly dependent on local traffic ex.AMS to and beyond DXB.

Herewith a list of EY codeshares that feed the 22.00 hours departure from AMS to AUH:

ARRIVALS at AMS:
17:05 Lisbon EY 5822 Etihad Airways
18:10 Barcelona EY 7356 Etihad Airways
18:35 Bergen EY 7347 Etihad Airways
18:35 Oporto EY 5872 Etihad Airways
19:05 Stavanger EY 7323 Etihad Airways
19:10 Oslo EY 7339 Etihad Airways
19:20 Billund EY 7306 Etihad Airways
19:25 Glasgow EY 7376 Etihad Airways
19:30 Stockholm EY 7349 Etihad Airways
19:35 Copenhagen EY 7303 Etihad Airways
19:40 Cardiff EY 7353 Etihad Airways
19:45 Birmingham EY 7368 Etihad Airways
19:45 Newcastle EY 7328 Etihad Airways
19:50 Dublin EY 7916 Etihad Airways
19:50 Gothenburg EY 7337 Etihad Airways
19:50 Helsinki EY 7327 Etihad Airways
19:55 Madrid EY 7360 Etihad Airways
19:55 Cork EY 7794 Etihad Airways
20:00 Aberdeen EY 7364 Etihad Airways
20:10 Edinburgh EY 7372 Etihad Airways
20:20 Southampton EY 7887 Etihad Airways
20:40 Copenhagen EY 7309 Etihad Airways
21:00 Oslo EY 7343 Etihad Airways
all connect with:
22.00 dep. Abu Dhabi EY0078

EK has no codeshare operation in Europe, so it must rely on point-to-point traffic and interline. Perhaps EK could consider cooperating with an airline like easyJet, as this could provide the following connections to DXB:

ARRIVALS at AMS:
17:35 Bristol EZY 6167 easyJet
18:25 Glasgow EZY 6853 easyJet
18:25 London Southend EZY 7405 easyJet
18:35 Prague EZY 3808 easyJet
18:35 London Stansted EZY 3005 easyJet
18:35 London Luton EZY 2161 easyJet
18:40 London Gatwick EZY 8877 easyJet
18:45 Belfast EZY 6775 easyJet
18:50 Newcastle EZY 6453 easyJet
20:25 Edinburgh EZY 6923 easyJet
20:35 Rome EZY 4995 easyJet
20:35 Milan Malpensa EZY 2729 easyJet
20:50 Berlin Schonefe EZY 4567 easyJet
20:50 Geneva EZS 1357 easyJet
21:05 London Luton EZY 2163 easyJet
21:10 London Stansted EZY 3009 easyJet
21:15 London Gatwick EZY 8881 easyJet
21:15 Liverpool EZY 7011 easyJet
21:20 Manchester EZY 1835 easyJet

all in good time for EK's dep. 22.10 EK170 to Dubai

What do A.nutters think, would EK reach more European destinations (like EY does) by seeking cooperation with a European carrier?
 
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Focker
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:08 pm

Quoting imatams (Reply 2):
So much for AMS being a low-yielding market? How is it that Emirates can make its premium product work for AMS while, apparently, many others cannot?

For more than one reason. But for me personally the prime reasons are that they usually offer reasonable fares (especially compared to KL), have a great network when travelling East from AMS, and finally the product (especially on the A380) is very good.

So much for KL complaining and whining about EK entering this market while "there is no market for the A380 on the AMS-DXB route". The addition of this flight tells me that EK must be doing well on the route.

[Edited 2013-07-31 13:04:28]
 
A388
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:28 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 17):
Would anyone care to guess how the two B738 operators HV & OR will do now EK is extending its operations.

I don't think HV and OR will be effected by EK or KL or EY for that matter because HV and OR operate in totally different markets (tour operator packages). Their main competitors are themselves (HV and OR).

A388
 
HUYfan
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:26 pm

I am curious.

How can the HV 738 make it DXB-AMS nonstop?

Kind regards

HUYfan
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:59 pm

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 21):

CM flies PTY- EZE & PTY-GIG with the 738, both routes are longer than DXB-AMS.
 
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airbuseric
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:05 pm

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 21):

I am curious.

How can the HV 738 make it DXB-AMS nonstop?

It stops in SAW afaik... and the OR flight in SSH
"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:10 pm

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 23):
It stops in SAW afaik...

  

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 23):
and the OR flight in SSH

No, OR stops in BOJ.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
behramjee
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:14 pm

Quoting SR 103 (Reply 14):
Are you a member of this program?

yes since 8 years and you know very well the 3 long haul flights to Africa and the 3 additional short haul flights that I have flown this year on EK alone  
 
Azure
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:17 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 18):

Interesting point, involving EK and EY different strategies.

Some thoughts :

- Looking at the feed at AMS is just considering one side of the question. To be complete, your analysis should also include the possible connections at either AUH or DXB, then compile the number of one-stop city pairs for each carrier with and without the possible EK/U2 partnership. At last based on PDEW for each of these city pairs you could determine which of the two flights is likely to be more successful. Good luck !

- EK already flies non stop to DXB from several cities "feeding" the EY flight at AMS. From these cities and whatever the destination, EK is more convenient than EY routing via AMS.

- As far as EK170 from AMS is concerned, I am not sure EK needs to cooperate with U2 since many feeding flights would be originating from cities already served by EK.
 
hohd
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:24 pm

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 12):
This is not completely true: it is possible to obtain one-way redemptions, provided seats have been made available and are not blocked at the time of making the request, but only if wishing to redeem a flexi fare. They are not available for saver fares which means that the amount of miles is required is greater. The main problem arises from there being more people wishing to book a flight by redemption than there are seats available.

It is true that for many fares the miles awarded are only 50% of a flexi fare. But that is similar to other airlines that offer reduced rewards for various fare classes including 0%, 25% or 50%.

That is what I mean, UA and AA have one way redemptions at the lowest award levels, but EK does not. In addition, most US frequent flyer programs (UA, AA, DL, US) earn 100% miles for all fare classes and have higher accrual for full fare economy classes. And now EK will be charging fuel surcharges on award tickets, which would make it even more of a mediocre program. In my opinion, it is now worse than many European frequent flyer programs, who atleast belong to an alliance where you can redeem your miles more easily.

So stop claiming it as an excellent frequent flyer program.
 
LJ
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:57 pm

Quoting imatams (Reply 2):
So much for AMS being a low-yielding market? How is it that Emirates can make its premium product work for AMS while, apparently, many others cannot?
Quoting behramjee (Reply 6):

because of its ability to brand market itself very well to this market segment + in turn walk the talk by backing it up with a 5 star on board product along with an excellent frequent flier program combined with an awesome network via DXB.

If see how much EK is dumping F (EUR 3,500 for a return AMS-DXB-BKK in F, EUR 5,500 return AMS-DXB-SYD) and C-class I doubt you can colclude that AMS is a preium heavy destination. Moreover, the fact that KL is reducing C-class capacity says a lot (not to mention that only the ME airlines offer F).



Quoting HUYfan (Reply 21):
How can the HV 738 make it DXB-AMS nonstop?

No both OR and KL make a stop enroute

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 22):
CM flies PTY- EZE & PTY-GIG with the 738, both routes are longer than DXB-AMS.

Yet CM doesn't put 189 holiday makers in a 737-800 (thus with bags etc.)
 
factsonly
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:27 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 28):
No both OR and KL make a stop enroute


May I suggest you look at the OR and HV schedules again.

- dep. AMS 06:35 - arr. DXB 16:35 HV 6901 Non-Stop B738 Tue, Thu, Sat
- dep. AMS 21:50 - arr. DXB 08:00 OR 407 Non-Stop B738 Thu, Sun
- dep. AMS 23:30 - arr. DXB 09:40 OR 463 Non-Stop B738 Fri
 
A388
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:33 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 29):
May I suggest you look at the OR and HV schedules again.

- dep. AMS 06:35 - arr. DXB 16:35 HV 6901 Non-Stop B738 Tue, Thu, Sat
- dep. AMS 21:50 - arr. DXB 08:00 OR 407 Non-Stop B738 Thu, Sun
- dep. AMS 23:30 - arr. DXB 09:40 OR 463 Non-Stop B738 Fri

The HV and OR flights are not non-stop. The fuel stops are never mentioned in their schedules because no passengers embark or disembark on those airports, hence the flights being published as "nonstop" while they are not...

A388
 
Snader
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:09 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 30):
The HV and OR flights are not non-stop. The fuel stops are never mentioned in their schedules because no passengers embark or disembark on those airports, hence the flights being published as "nonstop" while they are not...

A388

Flown AMS-DXB-AMS with HV last april. The AMS-DXB flight doesn't have a fuelstop. The DXB-AMS flight has indeed a fuelstop in SAW.
 
AyostoLeon
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:48 am

Quoting hohd (Reply 27):

I haven't claimed that it is an excellent program. Indeed there are many complaints posted in various online forums, including one that was open only to invited Skywards members.

All I did was attempt to correct a factual error in the statement to which I responded. Individual passengers will decide which, if any, rewards program best suits their needs and I guess they will decide on the basis of where they live, how often and to where they fly, airline preference, etc.
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
factsonly
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:10 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 30):
The HV and OR flights are not non-stop. The fuel stops are never mentioned in their schedules because no passengers embark or disembark on those airports, hence the flights being published as "nonstop" while they are not...

Sorry to disagree, but this incorrect. All airlines publish scheduled intermediate stops - even for technical reasons - if they exist permanently in their schedules.

The situation is that both airlines publish DXB-AMS schedules non-stop as they will attempt to fly non-stop, but make a technical fuel stop en-route in SAW or Bourgas when the operational circumstances so dictate.
 
LJ
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:11 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 33):
Sorry to disagree, but this incorrect. All airlines publish scheduled intermediate stops - even for technical reasons - if they exist permanently in their schedules.

The situation is that both airlines publish DXB-AMS schedules non-stop as they will attempt to fly non-stop, but make a technical fuel stop en-route in SAW or Bourgas when the operational circumstances so dictate.

If you look at the slot requests both HV and OR submitted for W13, they're planning fuel stops at SAW (HV) and BOJ (OR) both ways or one way (eastbound flight) depending on the time of year. Moreover, travel agents mention the fuelstop when booking for the HV flight to DXB. I would say that one can assume that there is a very small probability that these flights will be nonstop (thus without fuelstop).
 
1400mph
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:29 am

When will they replace the 777 with an A380 on this second service ?

When another one is delivered to the fleet ?

How long until a third daily service is introduced ?
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: EK Adds Second Daily To AMS

Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:30 am

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 35):
When will they replace the 777 with an A380 on this second service ?

Only if the demand grows, and I think we will see a 77W first.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK

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