davidho1985
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KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:47 pm

A KE 737-900, reg # HL7599 over-run the runway when landing at Niigata, Japan at 19:40 (GMT+9).
Fortunately, no one was hurt.



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PHX787
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:49 pm

There's two threads open so I'll use this one.

Saying on tv there was some brake troubles. On tv looks like the front gear collapsed too.

Niigata was closed for a bit.

(Good job guys. I was gonna be taking a break from airliners for 5 days while I travel but this brought me back for now. )
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Okie
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:08 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
On tv looks like the front gear collapsed too.

Niigata was closed for a bit.

Speculation only, but I believe the airport would be closed more than a bit if there was serious damage to the NG.

I do not see any slides deployed from pic and only a few meters off the end. Looks like it will probably be classified as an incident.

Okie
 
bennett123
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:07 pm

Looks as if the engines could be touching the ground.

Especially the one this side.
 
CO764
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:30 pm

It was operating flight KE 763 from ICN.
 
Norcal773
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:34 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
Saying on tv there was some brake troubles. On tv looks like the front gear collapsed too.

Is it not too early for anyone to know that brakes failed at this point unless the pilots said so? The gear looks to be intact on this pic provided by Davidho1985 at least!
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
HeeseokKoo
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:58 pm

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 5):
The gear looks to be intact on this pic provided by Davidho1985 at least!

And the speed-reducing panel on the wing (what's its name?) seems also intact in this pic. Unless pilot put it back, it may not have ever folded up. Too early to say anything, though.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:14 pm

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 6):
And the speed-reducing panel on the wing (what's its name?) seems also intact in this pic. Unless pilot put it back, it may not have ever folded up. Too early to say anything, though.

Flaps are also retracted. Looks as if the flaps and spoilers (the word you were looking for) were stowed after the aircraft came to rest.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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HeeseokKoo
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:37 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
Flaps are also retracted. Looks as if the flaps and spoilers (the word you were looking for) were stowed after the aircraft came to rest.

I see. I hope it doesn't come out to be another "unprofessional" Korean pilots' miscarriage (the myth that prevails here in a.net after the Asiana's accident.)
 
RussianJet
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:46 pm

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 8):
(the myth that prevails here in a.net after the Asiana's accident.)

To be fair, it's not a 'myth'. It's an opinion on the facts as they're currently known, pending the outcome of a full inquiry. If the investigators conclude otherwise and people continue to hold to the theory in ignorance of the facts, then you might have some grounds to label it a myth.

As for this case, whatever the cause - thank God nobody was hurt.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
HeeseokKoo
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:30 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 9):
To be fair, it's not a 'myth'. It's an opinion on the facts as they're currently known, pending the outcome of a full inquiry. If the investigators conclude otherwise and people continue to hold to the theory in ignorance of the facts, then you might have some grounds to label it a myth.

Some of them might be unprofessional, but majority of Korean pilots should be fine. We cannot judge all of them from one accident. But if pilot-error incidents happen again and again, then I'll stop calling it a myth.

Well, whatever you guys think, let me believe it's a myth - me, my friends, and my family take KE and OZ frequently and there's no other option  
 
RussianJet
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:41 pm

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 10):
We cannot judge all of them from one accident.

Absolutely not, I wouldn't disagree on that point for a second.

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 10):
Well, whatever you guys think, let me believe it's a myth - me, my friends, and my family take KE and OZ frequently and there's no other option

Take it easy. Even the best airlines have had bad days. You've nothing to worry about.   
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
flight152
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:51 pm

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 8):
(the myth that prevails here in a.net after the Asiana's accident.)

Apparently you haven't had a chance to read a former United pilot's experience teaching KE and OZ pilots in Korea and what he said to say.
 
HeeseokKoo
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:47 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11):
Take it easy.

Thanks for understanding.

Quoting flight152 (Reply 12):
Apparently you haven't had a chance to read a former United pilot's experience teaching KE and OZ pilots in Korea and what he said to say.

I actually read it. And I just had another "believe whatever you want to believe" moment to the biased myself. Most Koreans didn't leave KE or OZ even in the dark days (late 90s) and those left quickly came back. There's something in between, hard to explain, and I guess that "belief" puts those airliners even more in danger.
 
wjcandee
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:57 pm

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 10):
majority of Korean pilots should be fine

As long as they don't have to actually take control of the aircraft by using the stick, rudder and throttles.  

Or shoot a visual approach with a working PAPI on a clear, windless day.
 
747-600X
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:27 pm

Regardless of what happened, in the first photo in the opening post, the aircraft appears to be in quite good shape. There is no evidence of collapsed gear, and the engines don't seem to have made contact with the ground despite the sharp bevel in the terrain.
 
Norcal773
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:22 pm

Ooh boy, might as well turn the title on this thread to 'OZ214 crash thread 11'. It is sad that every incident regarding OZ and KE will now turn into 'incompetent Korean pilots' thread.

Anyways, I am glad everyone walked away from this minor incident it looks like. Tow plane to the gate, load it and send it back to ICN.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
HeeseokKoo
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:44 pm

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 16):
Ooh boy, might as well turn the title on this thread to 'OZ214 crash thread 11'. It is sad that every incident regarding OZ and KE will now turn into 'incompetent Korean pilots' thread.

Anyways, I am glad everyone walked away from this minor incident it looks like. Tow plane to the gate, load it and send it back to ICN.

My bad. I can't track if that aircraft is already sent for ICN, but I can see another one is sent to Niigata next morning and the return flight (KIJ-ICN) is to be delayed only by 20 minutes.
 
wjcandee
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:01 am

Sorry, this isn't a "no harm, no foul" deal. This is a serious incident. Another 20 feet and it's down that embankment with likely a very different result. Runway excursions don't happen every day, and when they do there are serious lessons to be learned.
 
RussianJet
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:05 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 18):
Sorry, this isn't a "no harm, no foul" deal. This is a serious incident. Another 20 feet and it's down that embankment with likely a very different result. Runway excursions don't happen every day, and when they do there are serious lessons to be learned.

Too true. We've seen them end in tears before. I guess we just have to remain thankful that in this case everyone walked away fine, including hopefully the plane.
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lightsaber
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:52 am

I'm glad no one was hurt. Any more information?

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 16):
Ooh boy, might as well turn the title on this thread to 'OZ214 crash thread 11'. It is sad that every incident regarding OZ and KE will now turn into 'incompetent Korean pilots' thread.

Hopefully not... But the OZ214 crash showed a 'Skygod complex' which increases the likelihood of crashes. This is an industry of continuous improvement and lets see what can be improved at KE and OZ.

Left unchecked, all pilot pools will develop "Skygod complex." Sadly, it takes issues to force through improvements in the training. Anyone who has studied networked ATC knows that the week link is poorly trained individuals at any part of the system. Pilots are given the most responsibility, thus their training must be kept up to date. Including teaching 'old school' tricks such as stick and rudder.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 18):

Sorry, this isn't a "no harm, no foul" deal. This is a serious incident. Another 20 feet and it's down that embankment with likely a very different result. Runway excursions don't happen every day, and when they do there are serious lessons to be learned.

They are a 'near miss' or even, as looks like in this case possibly worse (if the engines hit the ground, that gets pricey fast).

Lightsaber
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Carpethead
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:20 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 18):
Another 20 feet and it's down that embankment with likely a very different result.

Indeed, they would have ended up in the drink or mashed up the front of the plane because of the embankment.
 
flykal
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:19 am

Plenty of non-Korean pilots flying the 737 at KE as well, so why don't we just wait and see on the official result before slanging off at various cultures and their supposed lack of flying ability.
One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time
 
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zeke
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:04 am

Quoting flykal (Reply 22):
Plenty of non-Korean pilots flying the 737 at KE as well, so why don't we just wait and see on the official result before slanging off at various cultures and their supposed lack of flying ability.

3 runway excursions in past week, this is the only one to get a mention.
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aviatorcraig
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:16 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 9):
Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 8):
(the myth that prevails here in a.net after the Asiana's accident.)

To be fair, it's not a 'myth'. It's an opinion on the facts as they're currently known, pending the outcome of a full inquiry. If the investigators conclude otherwise and people continue to hold to the theory in ignorance of the facts, then you might have some grounds to label it a myth.

A.Net justice has been dispensed - they are all guilty until proven innocent   

Quoting flykal (Reply 22):
Plenty of non-Korean pilots flying the 737 at KE as well, so why don't we just wait and see on the official result before slanging off at various cultures and their supposed lack of flying ability.

     
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PHX787
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:16 am

Stop talking about the OZ incident here. This is not the place for it.

The KE plane suffered zero damage. The airport opened this morning and a handful were delayed.

The media is reporting the Japanese investigators are saying there may have been communication issues.....not sure what that implies. But they said this wasn't a serious incident.

They are also showing a video of an angry Korean guy pushing a pilot around. Guy was pissed but for no reason.

Unless this pilot touched down too late, it's too early to blame him.

A guy on TV also reconstructed the incident saying he touched down normally but the security footage shows the plane going a little fast....
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Carpethead
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:25 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):
TV also reconstructed the incident saying he touched down normally but the security footage shows the plane going a little fast

A number of possibilities. Niigata is not a busy airport. The KE flight would have been approaching from the west for a straight in arrival to Rwy 10 but perhaps the winds weren't the best resulting in a higher approach speed. Next is the touch down point was a little farther down the runway than usual and the higher speed resulting in not being able to stop in time.
 
PHX787
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RE: KE 739 Overrun At Niigata, Japan

Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:36 am

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 26):

Correct me if I misheard but I believe the winds were part of the problem, as of the latest news report.
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