airDFW
Posts: 277
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:44 pm

NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:33 pm

I am sorry if it has been covered before but I did not find any on search.

NPR is reporting Boeing is monitoring 787 while on air to uncover any potential issues. Is this only for 787 or do they did for 777 before? How does the communication work? Satellite?

http://www.npr.org/2013/08/08/209817...-boeing-is-watching-its-every-move

"Boeing Vice President Mike Fleming, is giving a rare tour of the facility. He points to two giant maps showing the location each 787 currently in flight. The maps also show the planes speed and altitude.

But there is much more. Boeing has delivered about 70 Dreamliners so far. Equipped with highly sophisticated on-board monitoring systems, the planes send back massive amounts of information while in the air. Computer software sifts thru the data and anomalies or potential problems pop up in yellow or red on giant computer screens."
 
jonathan-l
Posts: 394
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 4:20 am

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:36 pm

Is this the equivalent of what Airbus has with Airman?
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1549
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:11 pm

It's like having real-time black box data! It seems like airlines could benefit from this type of service by using the system across their fleets.
 
a380787
Posts: 4143
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:21 pm

I'm all in favor of this. The ground systems could alert the plane if it detects any issues or potential stalling.

As long as the government doesn't intrude Boeing and use it as a surveillance tool against foreign flag carriers (or worse, 787s for foreign heads of state)
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 3688
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:08 pm

Airlines have been able to monitor their aircrafts in real time for years through data sent by the maintenance computer through ACARS.

The 787, I'm guessing, takes it to the next level with a lot more data being gathered from many more systems than its predecessors, and that data is routed to Boeing as well as the airline.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
Flyglobal
Posts: 335
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:25 am

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:20 pm

Just for comparison with car industrie: since a few years, we are monitoring our test cars (e.g. monitoring in US or Europe while the car e.g. makes in country validation in India, or is driven through the death valley).

Two levels of data transmission here:
Level one is online - a number of key measurements - some 50 measurements online with a certain sample rate).
Level 2 is after each test day - a full dataset with some 100 monitoring data in a higher density is transmitted via WLAN/ LAN/ Datafile upload.

The 1 is for quick analysis and general updates, the level 2 is for specific driving situation updates and software behave.

In the future, almost all vehicles will have internet connection and can be potentially monitored.
The plan is in a good sense - improve service support and assistamce, as well as any emergeny support.

So far the NSA didn't request a datalink by the way.   (to my knowledge)

regards

Flyglobal
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9732
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:24 pm

Been discussed before a little Boeing AHM? (by Kun Apr 25 2010 in Tech Ops)
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
User avatar
PW100
Posts: 2723
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:17 pm

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:33 pm

Quoting airdfw (Thread starter):
"Boeing Vice President Mike Fleming, is giving a rare tour of the facility. He points to two giant maps showing the location each 787 currently in flight. The maps also show the planes speed and altitude.

I'm sure you will find this technology also with many A.nutters . . .  
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13730
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:20 pm

Title and post confusing. "On Air" refers to tv/radio and then you mention NPR.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
LONGisland89
Posts: 542
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:34 am

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:29 pm

Can the QAR transmit data via the ACARS or does that have to be physically removed from the aircraft?
 
N62NA
Posts: 3988
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:19 pm

I flew my first 777 with AA on MIA-DFW years ago and was fortunate to be sitting next to an RJ pilot who was based at DFW. He told me that the 777 is constantly transmitting data about it's systems to the ops center and that the ops center might even know about a problem or "irregularity" before the crew!

I imagine this capability is not built into the older Boeings (744 / 757 / 767) though it might be in the 737NGs.
 
User avatar
airbuseric
Posts: 3560
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:24 am

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:38 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 10):
I flew my first 777 with AA on MIA-DFW years ago and was fortunate to be sitting next to an RJ pilot who was based at DFW. He told me that the 777 is constantly transmitting data about it's systems to the ops center and that the ops center might even know about a problem or "irregularity" before the crew!

True, the airline I worked for used the same data to find possible errors, and replacement parts were even ordered or put on standby so maintenance staff could quickly replace the particular part immediately after landing so keep turnaround times within the time limit.
"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
 
georgiaame
Posts: 949
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:55 am

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:39 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 3):
As long as the government doesn't intrude Boeing and use it as a surveillance tool against foreign flag carriers (or worse, 787s for foreign heads of state)

Now why should we even suspect such a nefarious plot isn't already occurring? On a massive scale? Opps, looks like I just bought a one way ticket onto the secret no fly list...
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
dergay
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:42 pm

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:45 pm

Quoting airdfw (Thread starter):

NPR is reporting Boeing is monitoring 787 while on air to uncover any potential issues. Is this only for 787 or do they did for 777 before? How does the communication work? Satellite?

Hope the battery works in the comms pack.!      
Flown on A300,A310,A318,A319,A320,A321,A330,B707,B720,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,L382,L1011,C5,DC-3,DC8,
 
flyingcello
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:31 pm

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:55 pm

Rolls Royce have a similar facility for monitoring all their engines in real time. They have 'as built' records of each engine, and use the real time data to identify faults or abnormalities mid-air. Using the 'as built' database, they can also dispatch components to the aircraft destination to address problems. All very impressive...
 
sprout5199
Posts: 1681
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:26 am

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:23 pm

Didn't AF 447 transmit a lot of data before/during the loss of control?

I really think this is not a news item, as it has been happening for a LOOOng time.

Dan in Jupiter
 
N62NA
Posts: 3988
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:50 pm

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 15):
I really think this is not a news item, as it has been happening for a LOOOng time.

Ah, but now that our geniuses in the U.S. media have found out about it - and they found out about it regarding the 787 - it's a "the 787 is so dangerous we need to monitor it every second from the ground" kind of story. But yes, if the "journalists" had bothered to educate themselves about the subject, they would have learned that this is nothing new.
 
User avatar
flylku
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:44 pm

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:24 am

In 2006, while waiting at ZRH for an inbound UA 767 to arrive and turn for IAD I noted it was scheduled to arrive on time and depart three hours late. It went MX and we departed on a different 767 the next day. I met the pilots the next day and they explained that UA ops knew while the flight was inbound that there was something that required maintenance when the flight arrived and it turned out it was not immediately repairable.

Our Tech/Ops bretheren can enlightenen us but I think that satellite uplink of real time telemetry has been going on for some time.
...are we there yet?
 
N62NA
Posts: 3988
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:40 am

Quoting flylku (Reply 17):
In 2006, while waiting at ZRH for an inbound UA 767 to arrive and turn for IAD I noted it was scheduled to arrive on time and depart three hours late. It went MX and we departed on a different 767 the next day. I met the pilots the next day and they explained that UA ops knew while the flight was inbound that there was something that required maintenance when the flight arrived and it turned out it was not immediately repairable.

Our Tech/Ops bretheren can enlightenen us but I think that satellite uplink of real time telemetry has been going on for some time.

Yes, I would like some more "inside information" from those in the know. But, in this case, the inbound flight crew could have just used the radio to inform the maintenance folk.
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 2231
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:40 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 10):
He told me that the 777 is constantly transmitting data about it's systems to the ops center and that the ops center might even know about a problem or "irregularity" before the crew!
Quoting flyingcello (Reply 14):
Rolls Royce have a similar facility for monitoring all their engines in real time. They have 'as built' records of each engine, and use the real time data to identify faults or abnormalities mid-air. Using the 'as built' database, they can also dispatch components to the aircraft destination to address problems. All very impressive...

I've been told about this with Air New Zealand's 777-200s. Particularly with regards to engine vibrations, its apparently reasonably common for the people in maintenance operations to become aware of an issue before the flightcrew. Very clever tech.
First to fly the 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE (2014-10-09, NZ103)
 
MX757
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:38 pm

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:31 am

Quoting flylku (Reply 17):
In 2006, while waiting at ZRH for an inbound UA 767 to arrive and turn for IAD I noted it was scheduled to arrive on time and depart three hours late. It went MX and we departed on a different 767 the next day. I met the pilots the next day and they explained that UA ops knew while the flight was inbound that there was something that required maintenance when the flight arrived and it turned out it was not immediately repairable.

Our Tech/Ops bretheren can enlightenen us but I think that satellite uplink of real time telemetry has been going on for some time.


The sUA fleet have electronic logbooks. The pilots type the discrepancy on the ACARS touch screen and then send it via VHF data link to the sUA maintenance computer network UNIMATIC.
Is it broke...? Yeah I'll fix it.
 
FI642
Posts: 992
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:48 am

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:49 am

SR (prior to their demise) wrote an article for ATW detailing how they monitored their MD-11 Fleet down
to items like crews "using too much reverse thrust upon landing." A little too much Big Brother for me.
737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
 
User avatar
nighthawk
Posts: 4763
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2001 2:33 am

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:51 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 4):

Airlines have been able to monitor their aircrafts in real time for years through data sent by the maintenance computer through ACARS.

The 787, I'm guessing, takes it to the next level with a lot more data being gathered from many more systems than its predecessors, and that data is routed to Boeing as well as the airline.

I think that's the main difference here. Real time monitoring of flights by the airlines has been going on for years, but now Boeing are also monitoring the data to help identify issues with the 787.
 
User avatar
Schweigend
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:47 am

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:19 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 16):
But yes, if the "journalists" had bothered to educate themselves about the subject,

At the moment, "journalism" does seem to be dead, a relic of the 20th century.

All the same, I'm for real-time MX streaming monitoring -- I think it's a great idea. The more info we have to diagnose issues, the better.
 
apfpilot
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:19 pm

RE: NPR: Boeing Monitors 787 While On Air

Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:20 pm

This is becoming more common even in smaller airplanes. EMB has it on the Phenoms: http://www.embraerexecutivejets.com/...pport/Pages/service-solutions.aspx
Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.

Who is online