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Justice Has Been Done......15 Years Later.

Sat Oct 28, 2000 10:24 pm

I just watch MSNBC and they have just announced that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police have arrested to men of India's sheik sect in connection with the 1985 bombing of an Air Inia 747-200 that was blown up over the Irish Coast. Hopefully these are the two men that blew up the Air India 747 so that they can be tried and put away for life with no parole since Canada (I don't think) has no death penalty. But the Indian government probably wants them extirdited and in India; It could most likely be death sine that what a majority of the victim's family members want. Hopefully for alot of families, relatives and friends this can mean closure for them. God bless them and the innocent people who died on the plane just for political game. I know their pain as I had lost my best friend and his family on PAN AM 103   As for the two suspects; If they are infact the two men who blew up the flight then may be prosecuted under the fullest extent of the law in both Canada and India and also may they burn in hell for what they did. Nothing was worth killing over 300 innocent men, women and children those lives can't be replaced and the families lives can never be repaired. I pretty much know that all too well.
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RE: Justice Has Been Done......15 Years Later.

Sun Oct 29, 2000 1:15 am

Lets hope they hang them.  
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
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RE: Justice Has Been Done......15 Years Later.

Sun Oct 29, 2000 1:16 am

Lets hope they hang them.  
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
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RE: Justice Has Been Done......15 Years Later.

Sun Oct 29, 2000 1:28 am

First off, I would like to send my thoughts and prayers to all the victims and families of the Air India crash. I too agree that if these are the two men responsible they should be punished to the full extent of the law. Being a Canadian citizen, I know the maximum penalty would be life in prison without parole (there is no death penalty here). The law is the law, but for a crime of this stature the death penalty should apply.

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RE: Justice Has Been Done......15 Years Later.

Sun Oct 29, 2000 3:17 am

Whats the point of a death sentance, its just an easy way out. A few seconds of pain and then..................

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RE: Justice Has Been Done......15 Years Later.

Sun Oct 29, 2000 3:49 am

Please keep in mind that life in prison in Canada means 25 years maximum. To add insult to injury Canadian law does not allow for consecutive life sentences meaning the time these two ( if they are guilty) receive will run concurrently. It is too bad these crimes come under Canadian jurisdiction because our laws governing mass murder are a joke. The only people Canadian law protects are the convicted.

On behalf of all honest and law abiding Canadians I apologize for our pathetically weak, left wing legal system. If these two animals are in fact the guilty parties, they deserve to die.

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RE: Justice Has Been Done......15 Years Later.

Sun Oct 29, 2000 4:43 am

Perhaps Canada is on the far left spectrum of the death penalty, but here in the U.S., there are some states that have almost production line executions. The executed are often the poor and black. Not once do people try to look hard enough at why crimes are committed or if these people are actually guilty. There are some truly horrendous crimes (blowing up airliners certainly) to be sure that warrant the death penalty. At least you Canadians aren't disposing of your population with such ease as some American states.

RE: Justice Has Been Done......15 Years Later.

Sun Oct 29, 2000 7:11 am

Interesting comment Silverstreak. Are you suggesting hardened killers be give special treatment because they may happen to poor and or black?

Do the crime, do the time. It's that simple.
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RE: Justice Has Been Done......15 Years Later.

Sun Oct 29, 2000 7:18 am

As a canadian citizen, i find it embarrassing that it has taken the RCMP 15 years to finally lay charges, even murderers that kill 1 or 2 people get charged faster and probably get the same sentance. I dont believe in the death penalty, as it often leads to corruption, in the justicial system. Canada once had the death penalty, and a 10 year old boy almost got hung for a crime he never committed. I think that these terrorists should be sentanced to life in prision without parole, or be extridited to india where the prisons are probably a lot worse. They also killed 2 baggage handlers at Tokyo's Narita Airport, when another bomb exploded prematurely.
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RE: Justice Has Been Done......15 Years Later.

Sun Oct 29, 2000 9:40 am

Justice has not been done yet. These guys have only been charged. In our legal system, they will get the best criminal lawyers from Toronto's Rosedale area who will stretch the thing out for another 15 years.

But putting them in jail is not a punishment that fits the crime. This was a crime with racial/religious motives. These men view themselves not as criminals or killers, but as martyrs for a just cause. Jail is not something they fear, or dread, or loathe. It is all apart of the price they are willing to pay to achieve the bigger picture they see for India. In fact, quite often such men deem their own lives worth sacrificing to achieve such political ends.

So putting them in jail is not a punishment that fits their deed. It's merely a punishment that fits the Canadian criminal legal system. Evidently, people like this are bigger than Canada is capable of processing.

If only the Nazis had the luxury of being tried in Canada. Kill six million and serve 25 years concurrently. Max. That's the law. The law that we, as Canadians, created.

We got a "world class" stadium, a "world class" ball team, and a "world class" 2008 Olympic bid. What about a "world class" legal and penal system to deal with "world class" murderers?

That's my rant for the day.


P.S. If the death penalty is too "final" for some people, perhaps a compromise. I see nothing wrong with a little torture.

An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised

RE: Justice Has Been Done......15 Years Later.

Sun Oct 29, 2000 9:51 am

One of the man arrested is from Kamloops B.C, which is where I live.
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Sun Oct 29, 2000 9:55 am

You sound like an Alliance supporter!! Good for you!!!

I agree It think that we will let these guys go relativly free. Maybe while they are in jail we can pay for some more education, a UofT degree perhaps?? Sounds good to me, don't forget the cable, and private rooms!!! WHAT A JOKE!!!
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
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RE: Justice Has Been Done......15 Years Later.

Sun Oct 29, 2000 1:37 pm

I wish that there was a torture penalty fo these punks. It's just too bad that the two men on trial for the bombing of PA 103 will only get life in prison in which they will get private rooms and all these ameties tvs, good food, vcrs phone privilages all on the tax payers expense. My version of a torture penatly would be to release them into the general population of a big prison known for having alot of guys doing 25-life for armed robbery and leaking the information to the prisoners big guys I might add and they hate people who kill inncocent women and children. So when the two terrorists enter the prison. They'll be beaten up and be made the prisoner's lovers if you know what I mean. Prison can do alot to a man's mind. After all there have been guys locked up since the age of 18 who've never even seen a woman all that long. So they need an alternative. This is what they deserve if the two terrorists should get once tried and sent to jail. It'll be fun to hear those two beg and plead for mercy from the general population of the prison for mercy. If any of you think this is harsh; Think about what the passengers on the plane went through. They were probably begging for mercy as the 747 was breaking apart in mid air and people were being sucked out of the disentegrating aircraft; but got none as the pilots in vein tried to save the aircraft. Now the terrorists won't get any. It's still hard for me to belive that my best friend and his family who were killed on PA 103 are not living and the two suspects once tried and conivted will live it up in jail off of tax payer's money while the victim's families and friends still grieve and struggle to live another day just to ask on what did my wife/son/daughter/ grandmother/father/mom/dad/uncle/aunt and unborn child had to die.
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RE: Justice Has Been Done......15 Years Later.

Mon Oct 30, 2000 12:52 am

I tried to keep from replying to this topic because it is a subject that I am very touchy about, but the media avalanche over the last few days has brought back many old memories.

I want to thank the RCMP task force for working so diligently for so long to finally get enough evidence together to file charges against the perpetrators. Their annual form letter to me ("This matter remains under active investigation and we are not at liberty to disclose any information") in response to my annual request for progress reports may actually be different next year!  

I will not comment about the appropriateness of the death penalty in this case. They will be tried under Canadian law and justice will be served there. This is merely symbolic though. No amount of torture, jail time or execution will bring back Capt. Narendra and his crew or their 307 passengers.

This tragedy served to open the world's eyes to the dangers of international terrorism and still remains to date the largest single act of terrorism. As a result of this and PanAm 103, the skies we fly are a safer place.

"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada

RE: Justice Has Been Done......15 Years Later.

Mon Oct 30, 2000 12:59 am

I hope they get Bubba as cellmate!!! He'll make make them his little bitches real fast and goooood!!! Those bastard deserve the most painfull and inhumane death possible.
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RE: Justice Has Been Done......15 Years Later.

Mon Oct 30, 2000 2:25 am

Sat Sri Akaal

Herewithin is a news article published 10/28/2000 regarding 2 Sikhs arrested and charged with the 1985 Air India bombing.
Also included is an original poem composed by Harmohanjit Singh Pandher dedicated to those who perished in this very tragic incident.
Now, will the arrests answer the author's query and: "fulfill the dwindling hope that justice 'delayed' does not necessarily mean justice 'denied'"?
Will the verdict be for justice or injustice for this most heinous act?
My thoughts and prayers remain with the families, friends and loved ones of those who perished in this horrible incident.
May those responsible suffer a worse death than their Sikh Gurus and martyrs. Perhaps these criminals should be blown apart like those poor, innocent and unfortunate souls that perished.
Shyrone Kaur Singh  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Air India 15th Anniversary

(poem) Sikh-History Discussion Forum
Author: Harmohanjit S Pandher

329 InnocentsSomeone's mom or daughterWas bombed and slaughtered,Someone's father or sonSat amongst the fallen ones?The 329 who tragically flewOn Air India Flight 182.

From Vancouver to New DelhiTo the dead of the Irish Sea,Divers scan for black boxes,As a plan by black-hearted foxesBlows up in their unsightly faces?While widows wail on a nightly basis. A suitcase full of explosives,A long list of possible motives,A throng of relatives at the airportHear their families fatal report,As the bereaved crash to their knees?

Ashes already scattered in the seas. Some may know who's at faultBut their secret's in a vault?Who has the spine to unlock it?Who's lining their back pocketWith the blood of those passengers?Who's silencing all the messengers? The justice system shares the blame,Its slow incompetence is a shame?

How can we lay their souls to restWithout a single charge or arrest?"ASAP", said the RCMP and CSIS? Flight 182 remains in pieces.Our sole glimmers of consolation,In this 15-year murder investigation,Are those 658 omniscient eyesExposing in the heavenly skies The devils behind this heinous sin?The death of Canada's innocence.

by: Harmohanjit Singh Pandher

Burnaby, BC, Canada

June 23, 2000 marks the 15th anniversary of the world's largest act of aviation terrorism and the largest mass murder in Canadian history. The bombing of Air India Flight 182 killed all 329 innocent men, women and children on board. With each passing day, the idea that the families of those victims will ever see justice looks more and more like a pipedream. The sad truth is that this nightmare could have ended long ago if the political will had been there from the outset. 15 years is indeed a long time, even for our federal, snail-like bureaucracy and a justice system that's anything but swift. Who knows how many grieving grandparents and parents have passed away in the intervening years with question marks striking at their hearts?
It's time to lift the shroud of secrecy on this investigation, have a Royal Inquiry into the matter, and finally show some respect to the bereaved. And in the process, perhaps, fulfill the dwindling hope that justice 'delayed' does not necessarily mean 'denied.'
- Harmohanjit Singh Pandher ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Saturday, October 28, 2000

Official 'happy' over arrests in Air India bombing MUMBAI: An Indian civil aviation official Saturday said he was happy that Canadian authorities had arrested and charged two Sikh men with killing 329 people aboard an Air India flight in 1985. Sanat Kaul, joint secretary of civil aviation, said the arrests, after 15 years of investigations, were "a very good development. "We are happy that the 15-year-long investigation has borne fruit. The Canadians have been in touch with us regularly and have been asking us for information which we have been providing.
"It took a long time for the culprits to be caught," he said. "Since the crime was committed on Canadian soil I guess they have jurisdiction to try the culprits. We have yet to get a full report of the latest developments." Air India officials declined comment. Ripudaman Singh Malik, 53, and Ajaib Singh Bagri, 51, were arrested in Vancouver on Friday the bombing.
Air India Flight 182 left Toronto on June 23, 1985, stopped in Montreal and was en route to New Delhi and Bombay when it exploded off the coast of Ireland.
Ripudaman Singh, a wealthy Vancouver business man, is linked to a Sikh fundamentalist group. Sagri was aide to the Sikh extremist leader Talwinder Singh Parmar, a former Vancouver resident killed by Indian anti-terrorist forces on October 15, 1992, according to police. The two suspects were also charged with the murder of two baggage handlers at Tokyo's Narita airport, killed the same day in 1985 when a suitcase due to be loaded on to another Air India flight exploded prematurely. In addition, the men are charged with the attempted murder of the passengers on that flight, Air India's Flight 301, which was headed from Tokyo to Bangkok. Police had already established a link between the two attacks.
Police suspicions have long rested on radical elements of Vancouver's Sikh community, where around half of Canada's 200,000 Sikhs live. The presumed terrorists are believed to have been seeking revenge for the deaths of more than 1,000 Sikhs at the hands of Indian troops in the June 1984 Amritsar Golden Temple massacre.

[ Source: Indian Express ]

RE: Justice Has Been Done......15 Years Later.

Mon Oct 30, 2000 2:59 am

Torture 'em and them kill 'em.

It may sound evil, but look what they did to that 747.


If I ever came across one of them, I may lose control of myself and kill them.
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RE: Justice Has Been Done......15 Years Later.

Mon Oct 30, 2000 4:47 am

The Canadian authorities (much to the chagrin of the families of those killed on AI-182), took 15 years to collect evidence so that the case against the masterminds of this bombing could be airtight. 15 years is a long time, but its better to go into a criminal prosecution with an evidentiary advantage. Look at the fiasco surrounding the PA 103 disaster. It's a mess, because so much of the evidence is circumstantial at best.

As usual, prevention is better than any cure. If detectors against semtex had been installed earlier in Toronto and the UK, we would not have seen such disasters occur. AI were particularly vulnerable in 1985 following the political events in India in 1984, and I still find it incredulous that neither AI nor the Canadian authorities thought it necessary to screen passenger luggage more thoroughly on that particular flight.

I am not sure what hanging, drawing and quartering, or any bloodthirsty gladiatorial induldence viz a viz these particular criminals would achieve. This bombing was the final penultimate victim of political events being played out over several years across three continents featuring a conniving (and ultimately assassinated) Prime Minister, her corrupt political party, and Sikh hard-liners incapable of reason. It was one awful political act of hatred after another. A 747 loaded with innocent, hapless victims was such an obvious target - why didn't anyone see it coming?

Let the Canadian legal system deal with this in its own way and put closure to this whole mess. I was in Cork last year (my sister's inlaws live near there), and I drove up to the 182 memorial. Ireland is a beautiful country and the memorial is quiet, peaceful, overlooking the ocean. If nothing else, the families of the victims have a quiet sanctuary away from the political reminders in India and Canada of the events that led to this tragedy.
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