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Topic Author
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:41 am

With win NYC wrapping up, the focus on more corporate contracts and JFK Phases II and III on auto-pilot... and the new focus on the West Coast markets and the build up of LAX and SEA well on its way... what will DL's next strategic focus be?

Could it be South Florida? Could a dual hub operation serving Central and South America work, e.g., ATL and FLL?

Which other global dots does Delta need to connect?
 
MesaFlyGuy
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:47 am

I think they're next strategic move will be focusing on fleet replacement and getting used to their new toys. Plus, you have to look at the amount of slack they have in their current fleet. With all these new focuses on the West Coast and New York, plus general expansion of existing hubs, how much room will they have in the fleet to start adding more and more routes?
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
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DeltaMD90
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:03 am

I don't think they'll ever be "done" but will always continue to build brand and all, but I see where you are going. I think DL going forward is gonna work on LHR, and I think eventually their Asian ops need to be looked at--will they continue the NRT hub, try and build up HND (fat chance,) overfly Japan, JV with KE? Also, I think DL needs to start looking south to Latin America and how they can strengthen themselves down there. AA and to a lesser extend UA are doing a lot better. DL isn't doing poorly or anything, but there is much room for improvement
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
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Topic Author
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:07 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
AA and to a lesser extend UA are doing a lot better.

Do you mean doing a lot better in LATAM?
 
G500
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:09 am

Whatever happened to DL's LAX-IAD & LAX-BDL?

Are they still flying those two routes?
 
MesaFlyGuy
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:41 am

Quoting g500 (Reply 4):

No and no. I don't remember when they ended, but DL hasn't run these routes in a few years.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
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deltadawg
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:47 am

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1):
I think they're next strategic move will be focusing on fleet replacement and getting used to their new toys. Plus, you have to look at the amount of slack they have in their current fleet. With all these new focuses on the West Coast and New York, plus general expansion of existing hubs, how much room will they have in the fleet to start adding more and more routes?

DL is adding more than 300 new pilots IIRC between now and the first of next year. Also, they are bringing 25 or so frames out of the desert to bring back into service. Where these a/c will run is the real guess but from my understanding they will take up reduced frequencies that were dropped several years back but I am sure they will also try new routes such as the SEA-LHR that is coming.

In fact, one has to remember DL had a codeshare agreement with AS and it could have been a ploy to either buy out AS or get the inside skinny on the AS system and routes. In other words look for some SEA implementation and expansion there and in the Northwest
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ASFlyer
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:51 am

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 6):
In fact, one has to remember DL had a codeshare agreement with AS and it could have been a ploy to either buy out AS or get the inside skinny on the AS system and routes. In other words look for some SEA implementation and expansion there and in the Northwest

Except that AS and DL aren't allowed to share information that isn't already available to the public anyway so it's highly unlikely that DL is trying to get any inside skinny. They don't get to share information about their expansion plans or any other proprietary marketing information. The codeshare, is what it is. Just a codeshare. Nothing more, nothing less. Delta apparently isn't comfortable with the amount of seats they are able to procure from Alaska so they supplemented it with their own flights. I'm sure more expansion is on the horizon for Delta in the Northwest but I don't think there is going to be any substantial domestic expansion. Even if Delta wanted to, they don't have the room at SEA for it.
 
jetblueguy22
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:52 am

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
what will DL's next strategic focus be?

Could it be South Florida? Could a dual hub operation serving Central and South America work, e.g., ATL and FLL?

Which other global dots does Delta need to connect?

I think once they get SEA going like they want it fleet modernization will be next. Now I'm not saying huge orders with deliveries starting Q4 2014. But I think they really have to sit down and look at the aging MD-80 fleet, the 757s/767s/A320 that aren't being replaced by the 739ER, and the 747s. The 747s have gotten the facelift recently, but they are going to need a replacement by the end of the decade. They say the MD-80s are still profitable but if you get another spike in fuel those jets may become red ink quick. The 787s will probably replace some 757/767 capacity, but not enough to completely replace the fleets. I'd be willing to bet a 777X order is coming to grow the long haul fleet, some more 787s, perhaps some A330s (isn't that fleet stretched pretty thin right now?). I think the interesting thing will be what they do with narrowbodies. They have the 717s coming in, but will they order a larger jet such as the 737MAX or the A320NEO? I think it will be interesting to see what Richard Anderson does.

When it comes to routes I think Asia is the next big move. Richard Anderson mentioned wanting the HND slots, but I see DL getting absorbed by the new AA before that happens. I think they are going to have to look at doing more flights avoiding the NRT hub. SEA will probably be their solution, but for that to work they are going to need more flights to SEA. They will have that AS feed but to make a hub like that work I think they need to expand even more. SEA offers connections to all major US airports, but those are all airports you can get one stop service to anywhere anyways. You want to fly to HKG, great. But from my home airport of BDL you need to still make that double connection to get to HKG. Might as well just drive to JFK and get a direct on CX. I know my airport isn't alone. Doing a bunch of flights from the West Coast makes sense since you have to go that way. But there are still a ton of airports east of the Mississippi where it makes more sense to just connect in NRT anyways.
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deltadawg
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:59 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 8):
I think the interesting thing will be what they do with narrowbodies. They have the 717s coming in, but will they order a larger jet such as the 737MAX or the A320NEO? I think it will be interesting to see what Richard Anderson does

Good point. Its mere speculation on my part but I still believe that if BBD expands the C Series offering with a CS500 capable of seating 160-165 passengers then you could be looking at a near perfect replacement for the MD80/90's and could also replace some of the aging 320's and 738's. I think this type of replacement is probably ten years out though at this time.
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DeltaMD90
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:07 am

Quoting questions (Reply 3):
Do you mean doing a lot better in LATAM?

Yeah. Actually, IIRC, Latin America was Delta's weakest (vs Pacific and Atlantic.) They are a distant 3 from AA and UA, right? AA at least. I'm not under the impression that a carrier has to be #1 everywhere, but I think it's an area they can improve in, even if they never become #1 or #2
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
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Miami
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:22 am

Speaking of hubs, didn't DL want to buy AA's MIA hub?

-Miami   
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chrisair
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:34 am

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 6):
In fact, one has to remember DL had a codeshare agreement with AS and it could have been a ploy to either buy out AS or get the inside skinny on the AS system and routes. In other words look for some SEA implementation and expansion there and in the Northwest

It took 6 replies before someone brought up a DL-AS merger. That's got to be the longest it has taken in recent memory!  
 
usflyguy
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:41 am

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
With win NYC wrapping up

What? win NYC is wrapping up? That's quite premature isn't it?
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
boeing773er
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:03 am

I can't see DL finishing NYC just yet, I don't believe they are too far ahead of UA, if at all. The NYC market will honestly never be "done" because it is always evolving, it demands the best prouduct, best service, and the best time schedule. Every carrier has work to be done in the NYC market, it just so happens DL is further ahead of the rest. This also goes for LAX, but I believe they have more work to be done there.

Could DL turn something out of Florida? Probably, I just don't see how a tourism driven state will suit what DL is going for. Especially since AA has MIA under a lock and key. FLL's yields are probably in the toliet with NK having a large ammount of operations there, and JB doesn't help much either. TPA wouldn't be an adequate to suit as a hub, it is a lovely city but I don't believe it has enough business/local demand to support something that ATL can't. As for MCO, DL has a nice ammount of operations there. Could it support some 757 flying to South America? Possibly, but with the large ammount of Latin/South American carriers already there, it would be a fight.

As for later expansion, I see it being primarly ATL based to Latin and South America. I believe they will try to emulate what AA has going on in MIA. But of course they won't be able to do that, since the local market of MIA is so much larger then ATL.

I believe DL is pretty well situated for the next couple of years, the merger worked pretty well. UA still has a lot of catching up to do, and as for AA/US...I hope that the best.
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Alsatian
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:42 am

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
Which other global dots does Delta need to connect?

Texas ? Right, AA and UA fortresses but just as LAX is. NYC - DTW - MSP - ATL - SLC - SEA - LAX : if an economical US major area is "missing" I would say Texas and South Florida indeed. I think that it would make sense especially with the MEM de-hubbing.
IAH and DFW are connected with LGA since about one year, I could see DL also launching direct services to SEA and LAX (as discussed a week ago) and some other cities ( BOS - PHL - SFO - ORD... ). Moreover the DL/VS partnership allows to imagine now a direct access to LHR.

Just some thoughts
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MesaFlyGuy
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:03 pm

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 15):

I see your logic, but neither AA or US are fortressed at LAX. A fortress hub is when one airline controls over 70% of operations at a hub. Neihter of them are at that level at LAX. I could possibly see LAX-IAH eventually on DL, but that's about it for DFW and IAH.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
rwy04lga
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:20 pm

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
Which other global dots does Delta need to connect?

BOM to BKK....JFK to HKG...ACC to NBO Competition is there and they're long shots, but it's what I want. As for LATAM...what's wrong with TPA being a DL hub? Modern terminal with easy access. A bonus is close enough proximity to Disney and some great beaches nearby. Florida's Atlantic coast is overrated. The Gulf coast is where it's at! Nicer sunsets and warmer water!
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
DTWLAX
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:30 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 17):
BOM to BKK...

Why will DL want to fly BOM to BKK?
On the other hand, if DL were to start NRT-BOM, they could have a round-the-world routing; something like LAX-NRT-BOM-AMS-DTW-LAX.
 
srbmod
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After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:45 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 8):
The 787s will probably replace some 757/767 capacity, but not enough to completely replace the fleets. I'd be willing to bet a 777X order is coming to grow the long haul fleet, some more 787s, perhaps some A330s (isn't that fleet stretched pretty thin right now?). I think the interesting thing will be what they do with narrowbodies. They have the 717s coming in, but will they order a larger jet such as the 737MAX or the A320NEO?

Delta's deferred the 787s until 2020, so you really cannot factor them into the equation short term. The 717s are being brought in order to phase out more smaller regional jets and replace them on some routes with two class CRJ-700s/E-170/175s. The oldest 738s in Delta's fleet were delivered in 1998 and nearly all of the fleet was delivered between 1998-2002 (Two were delivered in 2010.) and will be part of the DL fleet for easily another 10-15 years if not longer. Delta will likely stay with a mix of Airbus and Boeing narrowbodies when they move forward on fleet replacement. The same will be true when it comes to their widebody fleet. Considering the teething problems with the 787, Delta may opt to convert that order to 777s. With the 737MAX and A320NEO having such a backlog of orders, Delta could possibly acquire second hand 737NGs and A319/320/321s as airlines retire them in favor of the MAX and NEO in addition to ordering older versions still currently in production.
 
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:18 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 13):
What? win NYC is wrapping up? That's quite premature isn't it?
Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 14):

I can't see DL finishing NYC just yet

My quote was not in full context nor was it clearly articulated by me.

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
With win NYC wrapping up, the focus on more corporate contracts and JFK Phases II and III on auto-pilot...

Of course there is still work to be done however big chunks of work have been completed including those less apparent to a.netters and not in the public view. Completing JFK phases II and III and continued focus on gaining more corporate contracts for greater share are work still in progress.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 14):
As for later expansion, I see it being primarly ATL based to Latin and South America. I believe they will try to emulate what AA has going on in MIA. But of course they won't be able to do that, since the local market of MIA is so much larger then ATL.

So why wouldn'tDL try some sort of dual hub approach for Central and South America using South Florida? Whenever this comes up people immediately go to low yields, NK out of FLL, and VFR. There's an extremely large Hispanic and Latin local market in South Florida, it's one of the largest growing demographics in the US, there is tremendous economic growth potential in LATAM, and there is a ton of money (individuals and corporations) in South Florida. Flying from LATAM to South Florida via ATL is akin to London to NYC via LGW-DTW-LGA.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:19 pm

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 15):
Texas ? Right, AA and UA fortresses but just as LAX is. NYC - DTW - MSP - ATL - SLC - SEA - LAX : if an economical US major area is "missing" I would say Texas and South Florida indeed. I think that it would make sense especially with the MEM de-hubbing.

Texas is a problem not much changed by the MEM dehubbing (the volume of TX flights from MEM wasn't large). It is a problem without a Delta solution because with the strengths of UA, AA and WN in and from TX, there really isn't room for a 4th carrier beyond frequent flights to DL hubs.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:16 pm

Quoting dtwlax (Reply 18):
they could have a round-the-world routing

That was the idea. I was just using the two closest unconnected points, but using NRT-BOM (or DEL via VS) works just as well.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
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Polot
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:29 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 20):
So why wouldn'tDL try some sort of dual hub approach for Central and South America using South Florida? Whenever this comes up people immediately go to low yields, NK out of FLL, and VFR. There's an extremely large Hispanic and Latin local market in South Florida, it's one of the largest growing demographics in the US, there is tremendous economic growth potential in LATAM, and there is a ton of money (individuals and corporations) in South Florida. Flying from LATAM to South Florida via ATL is akin to London to NYC via LGW-DTW-LGA.

That is easier said then done though. AA has MIA locked up and is only going to become a stronger competitor in the coming years, not a weaker one. FLL has issues with space and yields. It is not just NK, remember that B6 has big plans for expansion at FLL.

Delta also has issues because of their lack of a strong South American partner. They only have Gol (who are not that large outside of Brazil and are primarily an LCC) and AR (who are just a mess). AA has the South American powerhouse LATAM while UA has Avianca and Copa (which is part of the reason they are fairly strong in Central America).
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:33 pm

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
With win NYC wrapping up, the focus on more corporate contracts and JFK Phases II and III on auto-pilot... and the new focus on the West Coast markets and the build up of LAX and SEA well on its way... what will DL's next strategic focus be?

If win NYC is on autopilot...they will lose NYC.

LAX is still on swampy ground...and they just started in Seattle.

Maybe they should continue doing what they're doing.
 
quickmover
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:57 pm

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 6):
Also, they are bringing 25 or so frames out of the desert to bring back into service.

What's coming out of the desert?
 
laca773
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:09 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 19):
Delta's deferred the 787s until 2020, so you really cannot factor them into the equation short term. The 717s are being brought in order to phase out more smaller regional jets and replace them on some routes with two class CRJ-700s/E-170/175s. The oldest 738s in Delta's fleet were delivered in 1998 and nearly all of the fleet was delivered between 1998-2002 (Two were delivered in 2010.) and will be part of the DL fleet for easily another 10-15 years if not longer. Delta will likely stay with a mix of Airbus and Boeing narrowbodies when they move forward on fleet replacement. The same will be true when it comes to their widebody fleet. Considering the teething problems with the 787, Delta may opt to convert that order to 777s. With the 737MAX and A320NEO having such a backlog of orders, Delta could possibly acquire second hand 737NGs and A319/320/321s as airlines retire them in favor of the MAX and NEO in addition to ordering older versions still currently in production.

I don't think we'll see DL cancel the 787 order. They are deferred until 2020. This gives Boeing more than enough time to work out the issues they have with these birds prior to DL receiving any. Further, the 777 is too much a/c for many routes. A 787 will fit a many of these routes perfectly once they retire start retiring the 76Ws.

I was wondering if we will see LAX-JAX-LAX brought back with a A319?. The 73Hs is too large an a/c for a daily rotation (or 4-5x a week).
 
mcogator
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:39 pm

Selfish wishes:

DL flying their own metal to SEA, making it a double daily.
MCO-SFO coming back.
Mini Latin American hub. We have the O&D, especially to Brazil, Central America, and Puerto Rico. Nobody likes to connect in ATL or DTW when flying to Brazil from MCO. There is the gate space as well, with FL relocating.
“Traveling – it leaves you speechless, then turns you into a storyteller.” – Ibn Battuta
 
commavia
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:45 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
I think eventually their Asian ops need to be looked at--will they continue the NRT hub, try and build up HND (fat chance,) overfly Japan, JV with KE?

  

I think this will - or at least should - be Delta's next major strategic focus. There is work to be done to make Delta's strong Asian franchise viable and competitive going forward, and it begins and ends with locking up Korean and ICN as an alternative to NRT.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
Also, I think DL needs to start looking south to Latin America and how they can strengthen themselves down there. AA and to a lesser extend UA are doing a lot better. DL isn't doing poorly or anything, but there is much room for improvement

I question just how much organic growth Delta really has left, at least to South America. I struggle with how much more they can really realistically add, since they really only have two hubs that can plausibly be major South American gateways (ATL and JFK). I think Delta's approach in the last few years - of locking in equity and other partnerships with partners in strategically critical growth markets - has been extremely shrewd. Ensuring Delta has access to Brazil and Mexico is a major plus for Delta, particularly considering how inferior Delta's own network is in those two countries relative to United, and certainly AA.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 14):
As for later expansion, I see it being primarly ATL based to Latin and South America. I believe they will try to emulate what AA has going on in MIA. But of course they won't be able to do that, since the local market of MIA is so much larger then ATL.

  

If I remember the numbers correctly AA post-merger will be operating essentially as much capacity between the U.S. and Latin America (as DOT defines it) as all other U.S. carriers combined. That didn't happen overnight, and it certainly didn't happen on accident - but did happen largely because of MIA. ATL can never be a realistic substitute for MIA for Delta, but then again, neither can any other U.S. hub/gateway. Absent the keys to the kingdom in MIA, Delta's best alternative is probably just to concentrate their efforts on continuing to add more capacity via the primary ATL gateway, plus targeted adds to select Latin America markets from JFK and LAX, where appropriate.

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 21):
Texas is a problem not much changed by the MEM dehubbing (the volume of TX flights from MEM wasn't large). It is a problem without a Delta solution because with the strengths of UA, AA and WN in and from TX, there really isn't room for a 4th carrier beyond frequent flights to DL hubs.

  

Delta faces the same intractable challenge in the south-central U.S. (primarily Texas) that AA does in the Rockies and both Delta and AA do up and down the west coast: each region can only support so many hubs, and between the nation's soon-to-be "big 4" (AA, Delta, Southwest and United), all the viable hubs are spoken for - AA has DFW, Southwest has HOU and United has IAH. In the game of musical hubs, Delta was the one left standing without a place to go in Texas. This is certainly an issue, as Texas is not only the nation's second most populous state but also one of its most economically and demographically dynamic. Nonetheless, Delta no doubt can and will make the best of it - as others have mentioned, by serving Texas as extensively as possible from as many hubs as possible.
 
boeing773er
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:51 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 20):
So why wouldn'tDL try some sort of dual hub approach for Central and South America using South Florida? Whenever this comes up people immediately go to low yields, NK out of FLL, and VFR. There's an extremely large Hispanic and Latin local market in South Florida, it's one of the largest growing demographics in the US, there is tremendous economic growth potential in LATAM, and there is a ton of money (individuals and corporations) in South Florida. Flying from LATAM to South Florida via ATL is akin to London to NYC via LGW-DTW-LGA.

While South Florida is a huge market, for Delta to set up a hub in South Florida just for the South Florida market would be a bit stupid. Like Polot said, AA has South Florida locked up. There isn't any where they could grow that would give DL the yields/demand that would justify setting up a brand new hub.

Tampa would be the most viable option in terms of infrastructure. But the local demand from Tampa Bay would be weak, since only about 17% of the population in Tampa is Latino or Hispanic Source

In the future (fifteen or twenty years) there may be demand for a latin/south american hub in other parts of Florida, according to Nielsen, Orlando's latino/hispanic population has grown 125.1 per cent since 2000, as for Tampa they stand at 112.2 per cent. But at the same time, Atlanta's latino/hispanic population has grown more than both of those cities. So DL may have more success trying to turn ATL into a South American hub instead of something in South Florida. Nielsen
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mpdpilot
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:11 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 28):
Delta faces the same intractable challenge in the south-central U.S. (primarily Texas) that AA does in the Rockies and both Delta and AA do up and down the west coast: each region can only support so many hubs, and between the nation's soon-to-be "big 4" (AA, Delta, Southwest and United), all the viable hubs are spoken for - AA has DFW, Southwest has HOU and United has IAH. In the game of musical hubs, Delta was the one left standing without a place to go in Texas. This is certainly an issue, as Texas is not only the nation's second most populous state but also one of its most economically and demographically dynamic. Nonetheless, Delta no doubt can and will make the best of it - as others have mentioned, by serving Texas as extensively as possible from as many hubs as possible.

What about a small hub operation in San Antonio? The city is larger than both CVG and MKE and both airports have had or do have small hubs.

And as difficult as it might be I feel like Delta needs to be in the LAX-DFW market.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
B757Forever
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:12 pm

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 6):
Also, they are bringing 25 or so frames out of the desert to bring back into service.

This is news to me. There was a handful of short term parked aircraft returning but I have heard nothing about 25 aircraft being brought back to active status. Interesting.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
commavia
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:18 pm

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 30):
What about a small hub operation in San Antonio? The city is larger than both CVG and MKE and both airports have had or do have small hubs.

SAT cannot effectively function as a major airline hub. The market isn't large enough to begin with, plus the region's traffic is split with AUS which is only an hour up 35. The geography isn't ideal, either.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 30):
And as difficult as it might be I feel like Delta needs to be in the LAX-DFW market.

They may decide as much. The LAX-DFW market is obviously enormous, and currently being split three ways between the dominant force in the market, AA, plus Virgin and a relatively small United presence.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:44 pm

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
Could it be South Florida? Could a dual hub operation serving Central and South America work, e.g., ATL and FLL?

If they want LatAm from S. FLa....its MIA or bust....aside from PTY that is where all of latinAm shops and the yields are great. I say we will see DL try something out of MIA within 4 years.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
but I see where you are going. I think DL going forward is gonna work on LHR

that too with VS

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 14):
Especially since AA has MIA under a lock and key.

Nothing is ever under lock and key....some have stronger doors....but nothing is ever sealed tight.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 17):
.what's wrong with TPA being a DL hub?

much like FLL, if you are going to get into a fight over LatAm....might as well go where the yields are ....and that is MIA MIA MIA
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:44 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 32):
SAT cannot effectively function as a major airline hub. The market isn't large enough to begin with, plus the region's traffic is split with AUS which is only an hour up 35. The geography isn't ideal, either.

Yeah, but MKE and CVG suffer the same issues. and CVG is even a small hub for Delta.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
commavia
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:50 pm

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 34):
Yeah, but MKE and CVG suffer the same issues.

Right ... and we see what has happened to the hubs at those two airports in the last decade. The economic reality dictates that markets need to have a certain minimum level of local demand in order to justify a hub from a major network airline. And SAT is nowhere near that minimum threshold. The market is way to small.
 
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deltadawg
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:19 pm

Delta Airlines Hiring Pilots

00June 12, 2010 in Blog



Delta Airlines, the world's largest airline, will be hiring many new pilots this year. It is also planning on bringing back on-line aircraft that was taken out of service and parked in the California desert the last few years due to recession cuts in capacity.

Delta plans to hire 300 new pilots — even more than the 240 pilots it had previously announced it would hire.

The company also plans to invest about USD $1 billion the next few years to improve the efficiency of its fleet of aircraft. Delta provides scheduled air transportation for passengers and cargo throughout the U.S. and also around the world. Its route network is centered on the hub system that it operates at many airports worldwide: Atlanta, Cincinnati, Detroit, Memphis, Minneapolis, New York, Salt Lake City, Paris Charles de Gaulle, Amsterdam and Tokyo Narita.

Delta merged with Norwest Airlines the end of last year.

If you are interested in learning to fly to work as a pilot for one of the world's big airlines — or the thousands of er airlines — contact Phoenix East Aviation for information on training. www.pea.com. An admissions officer will provide all the details you need.


I also recall another thread or article that specifically says 20-25 frames coming out of the desert. I will keep looking for it.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
MIflyer12
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:24 pm

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 36):
I also recall another thread or article that specifically says 20-25 frames coming out of the desert. I will keep looking for it.

I don't want this thread to go ff topic but I'm remembering it the reverse of you: the upcoming streams of 739ERs and 717s are going to put some 757s and A320s into desert storage.
 
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Polot
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:24 pm

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 36):

That blog post is over 3 years old now...
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:29 pm

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 36):
June 12, 2010
Quoting deltadawg (Reply 36):
Delta Airlines, the world's largest airline
Quoting deltadawg (Reply 36):
Delta merged with Norwest Airlines the end of last year.

LOL
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
dlramp4life
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:38 pm

Why would DL want to grow in Florida? They tried that... MCO.... They are doing pretty well now with MCO,FLL,TPA,MIA and everywhere else they fly within the state. Besides why do they need latin american routes out of Florida when you got ATL... Just my   
SEA Ramp, wettest place on earth
 
tjh8402
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:44 pm

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 14):
As for MCO, DL has a nice ammount of operations there. Could it support some 757 flying to South America? Possibly, but with the large ammount of Latin/South American carriers already there, it would be a fight.

MCO currently only has non stop service to maybe 4 S American airports, and only one is by a S Am carrier (Tam). Although largely leisure, there is a huge amount of traffic between South American and Orlando. I should add that there's a good amount of wealthier people on that route. My fire department covers a lot of the resort areas in Orlando, and when I'm taking patient information, I see a lot of people from South America, and plenty of them are staying in the nicer resorts as well so they are definitely spending some good $ on their trips.
 
727LOVER
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:37 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 17):
Florida's Atlantic coast is overrated. The Gulf coast is where it's at! Nicer sunsets and warmer water!

....and more oil residue  
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 33):
much like FLL, if you are going to get into a fight over LatAm....might as well go where the yields are ....and that is MIA MIA MIA
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 40):
Besides why do they need latin american routes out of Florida when you got ATL...

I am assuming MIA yields are better than ATL. What is the % of O&D traffic ATL-LATAM vs MIA-LATAM?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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uberflieger
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:46 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 11):

'Speaking of hubs, didn't DL want to buy AA's MIA hub?'

no dude, the mighty Delta was gonna buy a l l of AA and then piece meal it off and only keep what they really need for world supremecy: MIA & DFW

a little reality check for all the fan boys... in just a few weeks Delta is gonna be moving down a notch to the place they historically always were in US commercial aviation - number 3 behind American & United   

[Edited 2013-08-11 16:49:21]
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mcogator
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:03 am

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 41):
MCO currently only has non stop service to maybe 4 S American airports, and only one is by a S Am carrier (Tam).

I got this from WIKI. Some of the flights are seasonal, but it seems like the O&D is there. This is compared to TPA, which only has 2-3 destinations total in Central America and the Caribbean. Zero flights to South America. If B6 can make a micro-hub to Central and South America in MCO work, I don't see why DL can't.

South America
AV to BOG
9H to CUR
G3 to SDQ & GRU
B6 to BOG
LA to SCL
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ to GRU

Central America & Caribbean
AM to MEX
FL to AUA,MBJ
TA to SAL,GUA
UP to NAS
BW to KIN,POS
CM to PTY
DL to CUN
B6 to BQN,CUN,MBJ,NAS,PSE,SJO,SJU,SDQ
NK to SJU
Y4 to MEX
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questions
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:24 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 43):
no dude, the mighty Delta was gonna buy a l l of AA and then piece meal it off and only keep what they really need for world supremecy: MIA & DFW

You forgot JFK T8.  
Quoting uberflieger (Reply 43):
a little reality check for all the fan boys... in just a few weeks Delta is gonna be moving down a notch to the place they historically always were in US commercial aviation - number 3 behind American & United

Hence the discussion objective for this thread. What is DL's growth strategy now that Win New York, while not declarable, is chugging along and "Go West Young Man", aka, LAX/SEA, is well under way? If those two plus fleet renewal, as some have speculated, is it Delta will remain #3 for a long time.

But I guess we also have to consider the metrics. Could DL be #3 in terms of most "size" metrics but be #1 from a financial performance perspective? And how long would that last if DL is missing out on critical industry growth areas?
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:31 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 43):
a little reality check for all the fan boys...

to be fair, DL buying everything in sight was nothing more than an a.net rumor. I'm sure DL looked into all the options, including buying AA, but it's not like they desparately pursued it. They looked at everything as any good carrier should. Don't take this site too seriously
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
DL747400
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:31 am

If you look at DL's 2013 Flight Plan and then look at what the DL has done so far this year within that context, it is not a stretch to imagine that DL will use 2014 to do the following:

- continue to solidify NYC
- continue to grow at SEA and LAX
- continue to evolve the transpacific
- More more NRT overflights where it makes economic sense to do so
- get the DL/VS transatlantic JV running at full steam for its first summer season with full ATI
- possibility for another LHR route announcement between now and then
- VS will be folded into the existing JV with AF/KL/AZ
- SkyTeam extends a formal membership invitation VS
- VS announces their intent to join SkyTeam shortly thereafter
- movement on a transpacific JV with KE to supplement (not replace) NRT

My opinions of course, but this is what I see happening.
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yellowtail
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:32 am

Quoting mcogator (Reply 44):
South America
AV to BOG
9H to CUR
G3 to SDQ & GRU
B6 to BOG
LA to SCL
AM-Transportes Aereos Meridionais (Brazil)">JJ to GRU

Central America & Caribbean
AM to MEX
FL to AUA,MBJ
TA to SAL,GUA
UP to NAS
BW to KIN,POS
CM to PTY
DL to CUN
B6 to BQN,CUN,MBJ,NAS,PSE,SJO,SJU,SDQ
NK to SJU
Y4 to MEX

except for UP to NAS. this is all leisure and not great yielding. No point in building a hub for that.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
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uberflieger
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RE: After LAX/SEA What's Next For DL - Florida?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:32 am

Quoting questions (Reply 45):

You forgot JFK T8

ooops, how could I forget  

I am a B I G fan of Delta and their leadership over the last few years - a good match is one of equals   
in memory of Alan Kurdi

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