Max Q
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Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:37 am

I know this flight normally makes a tech stop but has it ever managed to make it non stop on this route ?
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:39 am

Quoting Max Q (Thread starter):
I know this flight normally makes a tech stop but has it ever managed to make it non stop on this route ?

No, on the basis that it is scheduled to stop in BNE.

DFW-BNE has a success rate over 90% but diversions aren't totally unheard of, normally to AKL, but HNL, NAN, and LAX have been used in the past.
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:12 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 1):
AKL, but HNL, NAN, and LAX have been used in the past.

I would imagine that at LAX they would still be overweight for landing and would need to either circle to burn off fuel or dump it...
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:31 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 2):
I would imagine that at LAX they would still be overweight for landing and would need to either circle to burn off fuel or dump it

Now you mention it, I think LAX was a medical divert

Can anyone clarify?
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:35 am

It's not a tech stop - local traffic is sold, including connections via BNE. Skipping Brisbane means inconveniencing a lot of people.
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:35 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 2):

I would imagine that at LAX they would still be overweight for landing and would need to either circle to burn off fuel or dump it...

Not if it was a planned stop. They would know that they could make it LAX-BNE so they would only carry enough fuel needed for the DFW-SYD flight out of DFW. Hence no overweight landing.

If it was a medical diversion then I imagine that is a totally different story.
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:47 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 4):
It's not a tech stop - local traffic is sold, including connections via BNE. Skipping Brisbane means inconveniencing a lot of people.

The main purpose of the stop in BNE is to upload fuel for the last 1.5hrs of the Journey. The BNE stop would incontinence more people
 
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:49 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 6):
The main purpose of the stop in BNE is to upload fuel for the last 1.5hrs of the Journey. The BNE stop would incontinence more people

I realize what the purpose is.

It's still not a tech stop, which implies nobody gets on/off the plane.
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:04 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 6):
The BNE stop would incontinence more people

That would be messy!!!    
 
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SexyAdonis
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:22 am

In an ideal world we would like to operate nonstop from DFW to SYD but, as it has already been discussed on this forum in the past, we currently do not have the equipment to viably operate this route.

In saying that, the stop in Brisbane (BNE) thus benefit a number of customers but the reality is the vast majority of our "high-yield" customers are Sydney (SYD) based and they find the stop in BNE an inconvenience. A vast majority of "high-yield" customers using QF 007 on the outbound (and heading to destinations beyond DFW) opt to fly back with the QF 12 and the QF 108 on their return sectors instead.

It has been pondered that a possible long term future solution could be to have American Airlines operate the route as we currently have a Joint Venture across the Pacific. A "Joint Venture" by definition is "metal neutral" and it does not matter which carrier operates the service all parties involved share the cost and profit of the operation. Please note this is ONLY a subject that has been discussed as a possible scenario and NO OFFICIAL conclusions have been decided on.

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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:23 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 6):
The main purpose of the stop in BNE is to upload fuel for the last 1.5hrs of the Journey. The BNE stop would incontinence more people

But the majority of passengers (~60% was the last figure I heard) leave QF8 in BNE. Whether BNE is their final destination, or whether they would need to be re-booked to their final destination (MEL, PER, ADL, CBR, CNS etc) the point remains: non-stop, even if theoretically possible on any given day, would inconvenience a lot of people.
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:29 am

Quote:
The main purpose of the stop in BNE is to upload fuel for the last 1.5hrs of the Journey. The BNE stop would incontinence more people

Not true. The majority of inbound pax actually disembark in BNE.

With the 5:00am arrival BNE offers direct domestic connections to SYD, MEL, PER, ADL, CBR, DRW, as well all regional QLD destinations. At that time of the morning in BNE its a very easy connection onto QF domestic services.
 
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:33 am

Quoting SexyAdonis (Reply 9):
In an ideal world we would like to operate nonstop from DFW to SYD but, as it has already been discussed on this forum in the past, we currently do not have the equipment to viably operate this route.

Aren't A380-800's capable of the range, cargo, and passenger numbers no problem?
 
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:43 am

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 12):
Aren't A380-800's capable of the range, cargo, and passenger numbers no problem?

As my post clearly states "we currently do not have the equipment to viably operate this route". The "key" word here is "viably". Our A380-800 would be subject to very high payload restrictions to operate the sector DFW - SYD nonstop. In addition it is a route that does not support a First Class (F) cabin. Dubai (DXB), London (LHR), Hong Kong (HKG) and Los Angeles are the only routes in our network that can generate yields in First Class (F).

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thekennady
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:52 am

So the true routing of this flight is SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD? The 744 is not the right plane for DFW-SYD but the stop in BNE seems to work out well. Being on a isolated continent like Australia means gateways into the US will be few. Still a gem of a route for DFW.
 
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:03 am

Quoting SexyAdonis (Reply 13):
Quoting Independence76 (Reply 12):Aren't A380-800's capable of the range, cargo, and passenger numbers no problem?
As my post clearly states "we currently do not have the equipment to viably operate this route". The "key" word here is "viably". Our A380-800 would be subject to very high payload restrictions to operate the sector DFW - SYD nonstop. In addition it is a route that does not support a First Class (F) cabin. Dubai (DXB), London (LHR), Hong Kong (HKG) and Los Angeles are the only routes in our network that can generate yields in First Class (F).

Sexy Adonis

A few months back on QF008 I was talking to one of the QF pilots, they said over the distance of DFW-BNE, the 747-400ER is actually more viable and the prefered aircrft in the QF fleet, any fuel efficiencies gained with the newer A380 are lost with the payload restrictions over such a distance. So unless they change the routing with an actual 'tech' stop somewhere along the way, or untill QF get another aircraft type, you will see it being operated by a 747-400ER for a while yet.

Quoting vhebb (Reply 11):
With the 5:00am arrival BNE offers direct domestic connections to SYD, MEL, PER, ADL, CBR, DRW, as well all regional QLD destinations. At that time of the morning in BNE its a very easy connection onto QF domestic services.

Correct, it is great for all the onward connections to other Australian ports as well s the BNE market.

What QF have also found, QF008 is great for BNE pax flying via SYD for other international services, allows them to sell tighter connections as there is no terminal transfer required on arrival in SYD. Or even BNE pax who want to connect onto QF007, no terminal transfer and a 747 all the way   
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:33 am

Quoting SexyAdonis (Reply 9):
It has been pondered that a possible long term future solution could be to have American Airlines operate the route as we currently have a Joint Venture across the Pacific.

I'm assuming that would be a 777-300ER doing DFW-SYD non-stop both ways?
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:57 am

Quoting SexyAdonis (Reply 9):
In an ideal world we would like to operate nonstop from DFW to SYD but, as it has already been discussed on this forum in the past, we currently do not have the equipment to viably operate this route.

Any reason as why you referring to QF as 'we' & 'we' don't have equipment viable to operate the route?

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 12):
Quoting SexyAdonis (Reply 9):
In an ideal world we would like to operate nonstop from DFW to SYD but, as it has already been discussed on this forum in the past, we currently do not have the equipment to viably operate this route.

Aren't A380-800's capable of the range, cargo, and passenger numbers no problem?

The current 12 x A380's in the QF fleet have F/C as pointed out by SexyAdonis. AJ has indicated in previous press releases QF will 'eventually' deploy the A380 on the DFW route once the deferred A380's are delivered in a 3 class configuration.

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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:03 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 16):
I'm assuming that would be a 777-300ER doing DFW-SYD non-stop both ways?

According to Boeing statistics:

The Boeing 777-300ER has an average range of 7,825 nautical miles (14,490 km)

The Boeing 777-200ER has an average range of 7,725 nautical miles (14,305 km)

The Boeing 777-200LR has an average range of 9,395 nautical miles (17,395 km)


The great circle distance between DFW and SYD is approximately 8,578 nautical miles. Thus in an ideal world the ideal aircraft would be a Boeing 777-200LR but considering that neither QANTAS (QF) or American Airlines (AA) has it, if endorsed to American Airlines the route would probably operate with a Boeing 787-9 which has a range (depending on configuration and other factors) of 8,000 to 8,500 nautical miles (14,800 to 15,750 kilometers).

Please note the Boeing 787-9 is not schedule to join the American Airlines fleet until November 2014.

The Boeing 777-300ER, like the Boeing 747-400ER, would also be subject to payload restrictions. In addition, American Airlines has configured these aircrafts with a First Class Cabin (F) and thus have the intention of using them in markets that require this product.



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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:26 am

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 15):
Quoting vhebb (Reply 11):
With the 5:00am arrival BNE offers direct domestic connections to SYD, MEL, PER, ADL, CBR, DRW, as well all regional QLD destinations. At that time of the morning in BNE its a very easy connection onto QF domestic services.

Correct, it is great for all the onward connections to other Australian ports as well s the BNE market.



I did QF008 last Monday returning to Darwin, and while the connection was long (4 15) it still saved me a good hour and a half versus going all the way to SYD. With the massive amount of early morning connecting opportunities in BNE this flight works well.
One thing I noticed that my flights to/from DFW were very light, while my LAX flights have been full. Not sure if this is the norm

Brisbane is a nice airport to connect in, with Australia being part of Global Entry I was able to arrive at the Domestic terminal 25 minutes after I arrived at the gate. Well done!!
 
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:52 am

Quoting SexyAdonis (Reply 13):
Class (F) cabin. Dubai (DXB), London (LHR), Hong Kong (HKG) and Los Angeles are the only routes in our network that can generate yields in First Class (F).

JNB is also viable as a F Class route.

But that is against the point.


The -400ERs are to be in the fleet for about nine more years, so surely a viable alternative will present itself, through innovation or type?

Maybe the 747-8i will find a good home down here? I can hope!
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:00 pm

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 20):
The -400ERs are to be in the fleet for about nine more years, so surely a viable alternative will present itself, through innovation or type?

Maybe the 747-8i will find a good home down here? I can hope!

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."

The B744 fleet is due for retirement 2019-2020 and by that time the fate of the deferred 8 x A380's should be clear.

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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:45 pm

I see this flight come and go every day and love having it at my home airport.

When it first started it seemed that stops in AKL, HNL, NAN and maybe even one or so LAX were common but now days I can't remember hearing it being cleared to any other city rather than BNE. They always request relief from the climb out restrictions on their RVAN departures but that is also common of a lot of other international flights. It departs every night usually around 10:15 or 10:30 right after our last push of the night and rarely has to wait in line as we can usually get it right out.

Every day when it comes in (and if I'm working local) I always try to get it across the departure runway and to the terminal as quickly as possible. To me, the efficiency of keeping a good departure sequence going isn't important when a long distance flight has just landed knowing the people on that plane have been sitting in couch seats for some 15 or so hours.

I do remember one night when we had weather in the area that was slowing the pace of departures and then we had to do a flow change (stop departing to the south and change to the north) as it taxied out. We put it at the front of the line knowing if we held it up it could mess up the whole flight with a needed fuel stop.
 
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:57 pm

Quoting SexyAdonis (Reply 18):
The great circle distance between DFW and SYD is approximately 8,578 nautical miles.

DFW-SYD is 8578 *statute* miles, which is only 7454nm.

With the 787-9, perhaps QF could split that flight into 3 smaller flights : DFW-SYD, DFW-MEL, DFW-BNE
 
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:59 pm

Quoting SexyAdonis (Reply 13):
In addition it is a route that does not support a First Class (F) cabin.

Maybe because of this:

Quoting SexyAdonis (Reply 9):
A vast majority of "high-yield" customers using QF 007 on the outbound (and heading to destinations beyond DFW) opt to fly back with the QF 12 and the QF 108 on their return sectors instead.

You're F class passengers want to go non-stop to/from SYD. If you can fly this route non-stop in both directions you may lose some lower yield passengers who prefere connecting in BNE but you'll gain more high yield passengers. Sounds like a route taylor made for AA's 787's.
 
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:20 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 24):
You're F class passengers want to go non-stop to/from SYD. If you can fly this route non-stop in both directions you may lose some lower yield passengers who prefere connecting in BNE but you'll gain more high yield passengers. Sounds like a route taylor made for AA's 787's.

The stop in BNE isn't really the reason for the lack of First class to DFW.
The F pax are only really going to two destinations in the US: LAX and to a lesser extent JFK. One of these flights already has direct access to Australia. It is just more efficient to route the limited F pax through the same gateway than to spread it out between two.
 
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:33 pm

The QF rep that visits our travel agency thinks they'll switch the route to the 787-9
and eventually to the A380 after DFW makes the neccesary infrastructure
upgrades required for A380 service
 
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:37 pm

Quoting bwwt (Reply 25):
The stop in BNE isn't really the reason for the lack of First class to DFW.
The F pax are only really going to two destinations in the US: LAX and to a lesser extent JFK. One of these flights already has direct access to Australia. It is just more efficient to route the limited F pax through the same gateway than to spread it out between two.

I understand the lack of F demand beyond LAX and even JFK. But SexyAdonis stated that there is "high yield" demand in one direction only. So the demand is there. Whether "high-yield" includes F or not, that's a different thing.
 
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:57 pm

Quoting thekennady (Reply 14):
The 744 is not the right plane for DFW-SYD but the stop in BNE seems to work out well.

The 747-400ER is the best option in QF's fleet at the moment - it has similar legs to their 569t TOW A380-800s and better matches the current market demand.

Quoting SexyAdonis (Reply 9):
It has been pondered that a possible long term future solution could be to have American Airlines operate the route as we currently have a Joint Venture across the Pacific.

That would involve a payload hit (by weight), I would imagine, as the 747-400ER offers superior range to the 777-300ER (about 500nm at MZFW).

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 15):
A few months back on QF008 I was talking to one of the QF pilots, they said over the distance of DFW-BNE, the 747-400ER is actually more viable and the prefered aircrft in the QF fleet, any fuel efficiencies gained with the newer A380 are lost with the payload restrictions over such a distance. So unless they change the routing with an actual 'tech' stop somewhere along the way, or untill QF get another aircraft type, you will see it being operated by a 747-400ER for a while yet.

Once QF decides to start taking deliveries of their next tranche of A380-800s, they will be available with a 6t higher MTOW, the wing twist and perhaps a PiP for the Trent 900. Taken together, that should help, though operating the plane in a high-density three class (Business / Premium Economy / Economy) configuration would raise the OEW compared to the current four-class birds, which would eat into the MTOW boost.

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 20):
Maybe the 747-8i will find a good home down here? I can hope!

At the moment, the 747-8 has less range than the 747-400ER (by about 300nm), though once the second round of weight reductions (said to knock about 5 tons off spec OEW) and the GEnx PIPs are in place, it should have a bit better range.
 
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:16 pm

Quoting bwwt (Reply 25):
The stop in BNE isn't really the reason for the lack of First class to DFW.
The F pax are only really going to two destinations in the US: LAX and to a lesser extent JFK. One of these flights already has direct access to Australia. It is just more efficient to route the limited F pax through the same gateway than to spread it out between two.

Agreed on this, the the DFW flight does seem to do a pretty good job filling the J cabin.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 23):
With the 787-9, perhaps QF could split that flight into 3 smaller flights : DFW-SYD, DFW-MEL, DFW-BNE

DFW-SYD would require more capacity than a daily 789, but DFW-MEL/BNE could use a 789. Maybe DFW-SYD would be 2x daily 789.
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:27 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 29):
DFW-SYD would require more capacity than a daily 789, but DFW-MEL/BNE could use a 789. Maybe DFW-SYD would be 2x daily 789.

Someone mentioned 60% of DFW-BNE aren't bound for SYD. If that number is true, then DFW-SYD is just around what a 787-9 needs.
 
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:50 pm

Does anyone know why QF chose BNE over AKL? AKL has some connections to Australia (as well as New Zealand domestic), and is viable 100% of the time. The difference between DFW-BNE-SYD and DFW-AKL-SYD is only 15 miles.
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:24 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 28):
At the moment, the 747-8 has less range than the 747-400ER (by about 300nm), though once the second round of weight reductions (said to knock about 5 tons off spec OEW) and the GEnx PIPs are in place, it should have a bit better range.

Do the two have differently sloping payload/range curves? IIRC the spec range (pax and bags) for the 744ER is ~7600 nm and 8k for the 748.
 
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:28 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 31):
Does anyone know why QF chose BNE over AKL? AKL has some connections to Australia (as well as New Zealand domestic), and is viable 100% of the time. The difference between DFW-BNE-SYD and DFW-AKL-SYD is only 15 miles.

Perhaps it's a sign of things to come...I have heard AA is looking into starting up AKL. Perhaps they want to start the route from DFW. QF might be aware of this and hence the reason they are leaving it alone. ...Or it could be BNE is simply a more logical option for QF. . .
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Stitch
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:33 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 31):
Does anyone know why QF chose BNE over AKL?

I would expect BNE's connection opportunities within Australia are better than AKL's.

vhebb noted in Reply 11 that "With the 5:00am arrival BNE offers direct domestic connections to SYD, MEL, PER, ADL, CBR, DRW, as well all regional QLD destinations. At that time of the morning in BNE its a very easy connection onto QF domestic services."



Quoting LH707330 (Reply 32):
Do the two have differently sloping payload/range curves? IIRC the spec range (pax and bags) for the 744ER is ~7600 nm and 8k for the 748.

At MZFW, the 747-400ER is good for 6250nm vs. 5900nm for the 747-8 (as of the December 2012 ACAP). At MZFW (252t), a 747-400ER can lift 67t of payload. A 747-8 can lift about the exact same payload the exact same distance (with a ZFW of 288t). At a 252t ZFW, the 747-8 could fly almost 7500nm, but payload would be reduced to about 44t.



The original goal was closer to 6500nm (per the December 2011 ACAP), so the OEW miss and (especially) the SFC miss impacted performance a fair bit evem with a 12t OEW boost (which really helped the freighter more than the Intercontinental). Boeing has successfully brought the 747-8 OEW to spec as of mid-2013 so that should help range and GE expects PiP1 for the GEnx2B-67 to reduce the SFC miss from 2.7% for current engines to 1.1% or less.

Project Ozark is said to reduce OEW by another 3t minimum, though Boeing is shooting for 5t. Assuming GE does a PiP2 for the GEnx2B-67, that should get SFC to spec (if not better). So the 2016 birds could be pretty strong performers.

[Edited 2013-08-12 11:34:52]
 
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:42 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 31):

It could also be due to the fact that the BNE-SYD sector benefits a lot of people from BNE who make international connections in SYD. Although the flight is within the same country, passengers go through exit immigration in BNE which makes for faster connects in SYD
 
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:45 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 34):
Quoting roseflyer (Reply 31):
Does anyone know why QF chose BNE over AKL?

I would expect BNE's connection opportunities within Australia are better than AKL's.

vhebb noted in Reply 11 that "With the 5:00am arrival BNE offers direct domestic connections to SYD, MEL, PER, ADL, CBR, DRW, as well all regional QLD destinations. At that time of the morning in BNE its a very easy connection onto QF domestic services."

I would suspect there was also a decision around the bleed off of those 40% of passenger that do not continue on to SYD. I think Qantas would rather snag the majority of them on to their connection then driving them into the hands of non-alliance partner, and competitor NZ. I am sure it served all of OneWorld better to have them head through BNE instead of giving Star Alliance a helping hand - just a thought.

[Edited 2013-08-12 11:46:42]
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jayunited
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:12 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 23):
With the 787-9, perhaps QF could split that flight into 3 smaller flights : DFW-SYD, DFW-MEL, DFW-BNE

What you have suggested makes no sense and would greatly increase QF's cost. Right now they operate only one flight which probably requires 4 pilots and at least 16-19 flight attendants. IF they took your suggestion they would still need 4 pilots to operate each flight you suggested so QF would go from needing 4 pilots to 12 pilots and a 787-9 probably would need at least 10-13 flight attendants so if they only have 10 flight attendants for the 787-9 then QF would now need 30 flight attendants to operate the 3 flights you suggested they operate.
If there was a need for all 3 of the flight that you have suggested then I would agree with your suggestion but according to most people who have taken or worked this flight they are all in agreement that at least 60% - 80% of the passengers are disembarking in BNE due to better connection times. I don't know the total number of seat QF has on its 744ER's but If 60% - 80% of the passengers on a 744ER are in fact disembarking in BNE I really do not think that a 787-9 would be enough capacity to suffice the demand that exist between DFW and BNE. And if 60 - 80% are getting off in BNE that would mean that the other 2 flights you suggested DFW-SYD/MEL would have to split the remaining 20% - 40% which would not be enough to fill two 787-9's .
 
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EK413
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:05 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 31):

Does anyone know why QF chose BNE over AKL? AKL has some connections to Australia (as well as New Zealand domestic), and is viable 100% of the time. The difference between DFW-BNE-SYD and DFW-AKL-SYD is only 15 miles.

Onward connections for passengers wishing to fly to the West coast Australia, PER, CBR, ADL, CNS, DRW, & Regional destinations can do so from BNE as pointed out by Stitch.

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zkokq
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:27 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 31):

Does anyone know why QF chose BNE over AKL? AKL has some connections to Australia (as well as New Zealand domestic), and is viable 100% of the time. The difference between DFW-BNE-SYD and DFW-AKL-SYD is only 15 miles.

When the route was started it was advertised as Dallas direct to Australia. Hence no other stops. I don't suspect this to change TBH.
 
ZEDZAG
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:32 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 28):
it has similar legs to their 569t TOW A380-800s and better matches the current market demand

If I remember correctly, isnt QF only operator of A388 with trent 972 witch has higher thrust? What is the gain for QF with this, greater range or what?

[Edited 2013-08-12 14:32:43]
 
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Stitch
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:36 pm

Quoting ZEDZAG (Reply 40):
If I remember correctly, isnt QF only operator of A388 with trent 972 witch has higher thrust? What is the gain for QF with this, greater range or what?

I have heard it said it was to improve takeoff performance out of LAX when at MTOW. As LAX is neither that "hot" nor "high", I am guessing it's to get her off the available runway length.

[Edited 2013-08-12 14:37:36]
 
a380787
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:51 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 37):

What you have suggested makes no sense and would greatly increase QF's cost. Right now they operate only one flight which probably requires 4 pilots and at least 16-19 flight attendants. IF they took your suggestion they would still need 4 pilots to operate each flight you suggested so QF would go from needing 4 pilots to 12 pilots and a 787-9 probably would need at least 10-13 flight attendants so if they only have 10 flight attendants for the 787-9 then QF would now need 30 flight attendants to operate the 3 flights you suggested they operate.
If there was a need for all 3 of the flight that you have suggested then I would agree with your suggestion but according to most people who have taken or worked this flight they are all in agreement that at least 60% - 80% of the passengers are disembarking in BNE due to better connection times. I don't know the total number of seat QF has on its 744ER's but If 60% - 80% of the passengers on a 744ER are in fact disembarking in BNE I really do not think that a 787-9 would be enough capacity to suffice the demand that exist between DFW and BNE. And if 60 - 80% are getting off in BNE that would mean that the other 2 flights you suggested DFW-SYD/MEL would have to split the remaining 20% - 40% which would not be enough to fill two 787-9's .

1. It may not fill it today, but it will given the right market stimulation. According to your logic, they would never upgauge to A380 because that's too big based on today's numbers.

2. People favor nonstop and fewer connections. MEL has enough high yield pax who aren't big fans of MEL-SYD-DFW-XYZ double connections.

3. 80% disembarking at BNE is definitely a huge exaggeration.

4. I'm just proposing a hypothetical solution. Obviously pax numbers would vary, but for a dispersed country like Australia, decoupling flights is a much smarter solution than having everyone go through SYD.
 
tayser
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:00 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 31):

Does anyone know why QF chose BNE over AKL? AKL has some connections to Australia (as well as New Zealand domestic), and is viable 100% of the time. The difference between DFW-BNE-SYD and DFW-AKL-SYD is only 15 miles.

The biggest non-SYD/BNE destination for pax on the DFW-BNE-SYD flight will be MEL and QF has 5 flights to MEL in between 6am and 9am from BNE.... AKL-MEL is only 3x daily (and they're only 737s) with 5 hour gaps in between frequencies. 4x daily if you include JQ (but it departs AKL at 9pm) and although not part of OW, 5x daily if you include the EK flight which again is in the afternoon.

QF likewise have BNE-ADL 4x daily - AKL-ADL: zip. BNE-PER 4x daily, AKL-PER: zip.

Dont get me wrong, AKL would be a better connecting point if AA started DFW-AKL as its in the same terminal and customs done in destination port (MEL) - but it's likely only to work with Melbourne-bound and maybe Sydney-bound passengers and non-competitive for BNE/ADL/PER over the existing QF DFW-BNE-SYD service.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:48 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 2):
I would imagine that at LAX they would still be overweight for landing and would need to either circle to burn off fuel or dump it...

No it wouldn't be if they were planning on stopping at LAX for fuel. They'd takeoff from DFW with an appropriate amount of fuel for the tech stop landing at LAX.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:40 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 37):
but If 60% - 80% of the passengers on a 744ER are in fact disembarking in BNE I really do not think that a 787-9 would be enough capacity to suffice the demand that exist between DFW and BNE

But that demand is not between DFW & BNE, it's between (USA)-DFW-BNE-(Australia). Which means it could be served via SYD or AKL or even MEL or CNS.

I supect that SYD-DFW will warrant an A380 (new improved version), MEL & BNE will most likely justify a B788 each, IF they have the range AND economics at that range that is being assumed.

About 2020 I could see Australia/USA on QF/JQ looking something like this depending on economic circumstances of course):
A380s SYD-DFW, SYD-LAX, MEL-LAX
B787 MEL-DFW, BNE-DFW, SYD-SFO, SYD-AKL-LAX or maybe SFO, SYD/MEL/BNE-HNL
A second SYD-LAX flight on something!

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b747400erf
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:51 pm

Quoting SexyAdonis (Reply 18):
The great circle distance between DFW and SYD is approximately 8,578 nautical miles.

In the real world, there isn't an airplane route out there that follows anything close to a great circle route. I don't understand the fascination on here with using great circle routes to justify the distance required of an airplane.

The great circle distance between KLAX and YSSY is listed as around 6500 miles, yet if you look at planned routes like QFA12, it is 7716 miles.
 
DavidByrne
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:26 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 46):
The great circle distance between KLAX and YSSY is listed as around 6500 miles, yet if you look at planned routes like QFA12, it is 7716 miles.

I think you're mixing statute miles and nautical miles. The GC distance is 7488 statute miles.
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jayunited
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:50 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 45):
But that demand is not between DFW & BNE, it's between (USA)-DFW-BNE-(Australia). Which means it could be served via SYD or AKL or even MEL or CNS.

No one ever said the traffic was O&D only in fact if you read this entire thread you will notice that most of the people who have commented on this thread have said that most people who are disembarking in BNE are making connecting flights and they choose to disembark in BNE because it is convenient and some have even said connecting in BNE saves time. QF8 already serves SYD via BNE I've never taken or worked this flight but from reading what has been posted on this thread it would seem that at the very least 60% (according to what has been posted earlier by other with knowledge) of this flight is disembarking in BNE and they are either terminating or connecting to other flights out of BNE. So my original question still remains the same why would QF need to go to 3 flights when they are covering all their bases with one flight. They are covering the connecting passengers by providing them with reasonably timed connections out of BNE. If BNE is not the passengers final destination or there are no connections in BNE that can get the passenger to their final destination then the passengers stays on QF8 and flies all the way to SYD where they can make a connection there. One of the reasons why this flight is so popular is because passengers have options fly all the to SYD or if BNE is an option for you they can disembark there. One flight that is covering 2 bases and its keeping QF's cost down sounds like a win win to me.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Does QF Ever 'make It' Non Stop From DFW-SYD?

Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:07 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 47):

I think you're mixing statute miles and nautical miles. The GC distance is 7488 statute miles.

You are right. I am not familiar with the website and clicked the wrong button. The routing is more direct because you are all over water, but flights from Texas would not have such a luxury. They would mostly be restricted to airways until out of land.

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