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jetblueguy22
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A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:19 pm

Hi All,
The last thread became long so Part 3 is being created.

Part 2 can be found here A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 2 (by jetblueguy22 Jul 5 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Regards,
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
ferpe
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:26 pm

Quoting Speedbored (Reply 241):
Anyone know what they would have been testing with that 5x360 degree spiral to the west of Arcachon?

Those turns were to put load onto the wing. Your max FL at a given weight is set by the flow speed you need over and under the wing to generate the necessary lift in the thin air. Fly higher at the same weight and you need to crank on more alfa which generates a higher speed difference on the wings over and underside. At M 0.85 - 0.87 that they flew today you have supersonic flow on the over-side from about mid wing and almost all the way back, when this speed diff increases the supersonic area increases and you get buffeting which is when the rear shock-wave (transition area from supersonic to subsonic flow) gets stronger and it beats the boundary layer to let go.

So you fly to a FL where you have a certain margin to buffeting, this margin shall also cater for turns up to 30° IIRC. Can't remember what 30 or 45° gives you but 60° bank gives you 2G (we seldom banked that little  ). Anyway it was probably to stress the transonic flow a bit to see what parts of the boundary layer flow let go the first and how it spread over the wing and fairing, all duly filmed by the cameras per above and the turfing on the trailing edge and fairing. If they were allowed to fly into heavier buffeting (crank more turn angle and pull G ) it gets more exciting  .

[Edited 2013-08-15 12:40:42]
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Heavierthanair
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:41 am

G'day

On the move again

AIB17WB

Cheers

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
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Heavierthanair
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:17 am

G'day

airborne now

on FR24 it looks like it took off from the taxiway  

Cheers

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
parapente
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:19 am

Sorry not been following this thread carefully. Has Airbus released any official statements on how the aircraft is performing against computer predictions? Or is it far too early?
 
StTim
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:45 am

Nothing official but positive noises from unofficial sources.

Probably too early for absolute performance but they are cracking through the test programme so are - to date - not hitting any major issues.
 
ferpe
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:03 am

Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 3):
on FR24 it looks like it took off from the taxiwa

Well it took the 14L runway, the first time it started against the city of Toulouse.

Quoting parapente (Reply 4):
Has Airbus released any official statements on how the aircraft is performing against computer predictions?

An Airbus spokeperson answered Scott Hamilton at Leeham News:

http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/page/2/

“The newer engines of the A350-900 burn less fuel than those of the 787 which are still struggling to deliver a fuel burn level close their specification,” the Airbus spokesman adds. He said initial test flights of the A359 show fuel burn results at spec level, which he says is lower than the 787.

According to Zeke the TXWBs could come in up to 2% below spec as well by EIS, right now they are 0.5% below, so it does not look to bad  .

Another thing one can notice is that MSN001 seems to fly like Clockwork when flying is on the days agenda.
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:07 am

At what time (UTC) did AIB17WB took off?
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schwege
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:20 am

(Hello all!)

There was a gap in FR24 coverage just at the time of takeoff, the first airborne data point I have is at 09:13:30, altitude 800 ft. Considering rate of climb, my stake is on 09:13.
 
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Heavierthanair
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:22 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 7):
At what time (UTC) did AIB17WB took off?

My post "airborne now" must have been some 2 minutes after lift-off, that would put it at 09.18 UTC approx.

[Edited 2013-08-16 03:24:23]
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
ferpe
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:39 am

Quoting schwege (Reply 8):
Hello all!)

Hi Schwege, very welcome to the A350 team!

I know that you will be a very popular member here, why and how we cover in PMs but it is great stuff

best ferpe
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:39 am

Today, the yoke with the skid block is lowered.


16/8/2013 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr

Yesterday it was still retracted.


Airbus - A350-941 -msn 001 by dn280tls, on Flickr

And a few more pictures before today's takeoff.


16/8/2013 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr


16/8/2013 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr


16/8/2013 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr

[Edited 2013-08-16 03:50:37]
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StTim
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:45 am

Not showing any signs of heading to an alternate airfield to undetake the VMU tests. I cannot remember which long runway field they use for this.
 
blooBirdie
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:53 am

Quoting StTim (Reply 12):
I cannot remember which long runway field they use for this.
Istres, I believe.
 
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kmz
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:57 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 11):
And a few more pictures before today's takeoff

Wow, great picture of the wing fairing ! I wasn't aware how massive it is. Until now I always thought there is only a slim part following/extending the wing contour, but it looks like an additional fuel tank from this perspective  
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:15 am

Quoting blooBirdie (Reply 13):
Istres, I believe.

That's correct!  
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starbucks
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:01 pm

Looks like they're running some long autopilot streches...  

Passed the 100 blockhours today, acc. to my spreadsheet only 1.5 hours was needed for that.
Talking about spreadsheets, has the shared one been forgotten? I added yesterdays flight to the summary, but I don't have time to keep an flight-by-flight page with the FR24 data...
 
ferpe
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:04 pm

Quoting starbucks (Reply 16):
but I don't have time to keep an flight-by-flight page with the FR24 data...

We don't have to anymore, will inform you via PM  
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ferpe
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:24 pm

Great picture from behind, there one can see the aero trufting on the left wing fairing, flaps and spoliers, on the right hand side no trufting but other markings and there seems to be camera window inserts there as well.

The think with the yoke is really intriguing, we should have had pictures from the lift-off, might have been a Vmu type one  Wow!
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:26 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 18):
The think with the yoke is really intriguing, we should have had pictures from the lift-off, might have been a Vmu type one

Hm, they just finished repairing that runway  
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ferpe
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:37 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 19):
Hm, they just finished repairing that runway

Well schwege says there was no ADB-S data from the take-off (which has never happened before  Yeah sure ), would not surprise me if this was a deliberate glitch  Wow!    , why should A want to publicize the first Vmu speed via Airlines.net before everyone else knew it ?   

[Edited 2013-08-16 05:38:24]
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Aviaponcho
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:42 pm

Hello schwege... You jump the gun...
Welcome and thank you!

Quoting schwege (Reply 8):
 
ferpe
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:45 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 20):
would not surprise me if this was a deliberate glitch

As you said Karel, Racoons are bastards    
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:51 pm

So was it a slow takeoff or a tail strike? Sounds weird to do the tail strike in TLS.
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Aviaponcho
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:51 pm

Yoke lowered only for tail strike i guess
Performance take off? Heavy weight? Oei?
 
Part147
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:14 pm

or maybe Airbus is just messing with us... after all we notice things and speculate a LOT here on a.net  
It's better to ask a stupid question during training, rather than make a REALLY stupid mistake later on!
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:14 pm

Quoting schwege (Reply 8):

(Hello all!)

Welcome !

Amazing pictures, and yes there is something going on with those tail strike ummm...tests?

Ferpe thanks for the explanation on wing performance when banking at high speed, It was always my belief that just as a car rotates more the outer wheels on a turn, a wing should be the same with air and the 60 meter of diference from wing to wing should create a very different conditions....now my long question has been answered, thanks.

Best regards
TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
chrisflier
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:27 pm

This is pretty cool!  
Airbus A350 Testflight over France 16th of August 2013
 
ferpe
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:05 pm

Quoting chrisflier (Reply 27):
This is pretty cool!

Agree, we are on the first row and have a lot of background info as well. With the photo service from Karel and his buddies it becomes really cool, today's take-off pictures before they are finished flying was an unbelievable service, we could even glean the tests of the day, mega Karel    .

[Edited 2013-08-16 08:08:19]
Non French in France
 
Part147
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:19 pm

I like the little 360 turns she does at the conclusion of the flight.

Back on the ground at 18 minutes past the hour.
It's better to ask a stupid question during training, rather than make a REALLY stupid mistake later on!
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:19 pm

AIB17WB landed 15:18 UTC, another 6 hours on the book.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
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sassiciai
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:25 pm

Slightly off-topic - I can no longer resist the temptation to ask KarelXWB - does your a.net name indicate your interest, or your body shape?  

I really enjoy your posts - keep it up!

We are all a bit challenged in the weight department, not just the latest new aircraft models! I'm just back from a long Far East tour, and have moved into the XWB range myself! I need a few PIPs now! Dont know how composites might help, though!
 
ferpe
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:57 pm

Quoting Part147 (Reply 29):
I like the little 360 turns she does at the conclusion of the flight.

I speculate once again that is to load up the wings to get the separation patterns filmed at different weights, heights etc. If you look at todays flight test my take on it was:

- a take-off which was much closer to max rotation then before, perhaps not Vmu but on that route, thereby the tailstrike fork lowered for safety at TO and yes I do think they blocked the data feed to the transponder for some reason.

- a mix of Autopliot runs (the regular pattern stuff as note by Starbucks) and then interleaved when fuel had been burned of further tight 360 turns to load the wings and get those flow patterns, then further other test until the next weight point was there then the turns and so on.

Any other takes (I'm just guessing so don't take it as gospel  ) ?
Non French in France
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:01 pm

Picture of the landing, seems like the yoke was retracted just before takeoff.


AIB17WB 16/8/2013 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
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OldAeroGuy
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:29 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 1):
Can't remember what 30 or 45° gives you

30 deg bank requires 1.15g and 45 deg requires 1.41g

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 26):
It was always my belief that just as a car rotates more the outer wheels on a turn, a wing should be the same with air and the 60 meter of diference from wing to wing should create a very different conditions....now my long question has been answered, thanks.

Roller coasters (pull up followed by push over) will load both wings equally. You do need to demonstrate maneuver capability by banked turns.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:49 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 18):
Great picture from behind, there one can see the aero trufting on the left wing fairing, flaps and spoliers, on the right hand side no trufting but other markings and there seems to be camera window inserts there as well.

Yes the pictures reveal nicely what Airbus has done in the past 3 weeks. It was not just an update of the FTI, but also the installation of cameras, wiring, markings, attachment of the yoke with the skid block and other stuff.

So it was not a summer break for MSN1 after all  
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StTim
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:56 pm

Does anyone know what the instrumentation is for on the landing gear doors?
 
Aircellist
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:08 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 33):
Picture of the landing, seems like the yoke was retracted just before takeoff.

During the fabrication, I was worried that the nose would be Nimrod-ish, but it is not the case, finally. It is quite a nice plane.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
schwege
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:44 pm

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome!

Concerning the blackout during takeoff, I just had a hunch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I only remember this happening when she has taken off using RWY14*. The explanation could be really simple; the radiation pattern of the ADS-B transmitter hits the local FR24 base station when taking off from the 32s, but has a blind spot somewhere near the end of the 14's. Of course it's pure speculation without any facts (location of ADS-B transmitter in the plane, shape of the radiation pattern, how the plane structure interferes with it, location of the base station, terrain both around the airport and the base station, ...). But hey, we've got ourselves a nice experiment running in the background - let's see how this theory pans out! We'll still be seeing plenty of takeoffs to both directions.

Speaking of which, you guys seem to think that Istres is going to be the location for the tail strike tests - how about someone in the region grabs an ADS-B receiver and plants it nearby?  
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:15 pm

Quoting schwege (Reply 38):
the tail strike tests

Tail strike is too harsh a term. Better to call them Vmu Attitude tests as the aft body is eased into contact with the runway.

Strike implies the contact occurs with significant force.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
packsonflight
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:39 pm

Isn't it a bit early in the test program for the VMU test??? I thought that this test would normally be later in the test campaign because it poses some damage risk for the aircraft
 
schwege
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:03 am

AIB18WB takeoff at 08:02 UTC.
 
ap305
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:03 am

Here we go AIB18WB up at 8:03 UTC...Its like an airline operation.
 
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Heavierthanair
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:17 am

G'day

Doing in excess of 560 knots now, doing high speed testing it seems


Cheers

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:38 am

Quoting packsonflight (Reply 40):
Isn't it a bit early in the test program for the VMU test??? I thought that this test would normally be later in the test campaign because it poses some damage risk for the aircraft

I think you're confused with the RTO at MTOW. This test is done at the very end of the campaign because the aircraft tires could catch fire. The VMU test is done in the beginning, the A380 had its VMU test done within 3 months after first flight.
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:03 am

Also from the A350 blog:

Quote:
Perfect weather conditions are needed, with no turbulence and wind less than 5 kts, to insure the precision of the measurements. The tests will be performed at Istres Air Force Base (South of France) where there is a 5 km runway and no houses or other obstacles on the runway axis for several kilometers.

On A380, a total of 22 VMU tests were executed including both development and certification.

Time to look for a wind forecast map of Istres  
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speedbored
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:14 am

Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 43):
Doing in excess of 560 knots now, doing high speed testing it seems

Definitely high speed tests.

Fastest I've seen on FR24 so far today is 591kts at 30,000ft. Don't know what the temperature is around there at that altitude right now but it looks like they might be testing at over 0.95 mach.
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schwege
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:14 am

OK, they just did 591 kts @ 30400 ft.

Using an online calculator I got Mach 1.0046 out of that - is it right?

Edit: Probably not, the calculator doesn't take in temperature at all.

[Edited 2013-08-17 03:20:05]
 
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Heavierthanair
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:15 am

G'day

They just did 590 knots at 30000 ft level flight, what would that be in Mach numbers? All per FR24, but over an extended period of time so this is presumably quite accurate.

Cheers

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
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speedbored
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RE: A350 Flight Tests Official Thread Part 3

Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:23 am

Or could it just be that there's a strong northerly wind at the moment? FR24 shows ground speed and all of the 'high speed' runs seem to be when they're heading south. They're going quite a bit slower headingnorth.
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