jetblueguy22
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A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:21 pm

Hi All,

The previous thread became long so Part 13 is being created.

Part 12 can be found here A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 12 (by wilco737 Jun 12 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Regards,
Pat
All of the opinions stated above are mine and do not represent Airliners.net or my employer unless otherwise stated.
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:48 pm

I'm afraid - but nut sure - that this is the tailfin of MSN4, spotted in Hamburg today.


A350 Fin and A380 by XFW-Spotter, on Flickr

[Edited 2013-08-20 09:51:05]
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:20 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):
I'm afraid - but nut sure - that this is the tailfin of MSN4, spotted in Hamburg today.

If you look at the original size photo, you can see a "04" through the white sheets covering the tail fin... on the "bottom" of the fin

//Edit, I took a screenshot:
Big version: Width: 1270 Height: 924 File size: 1299kb


[Edited 2013-08-20 10:23:12]
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:13 pm

Nicely spotted, thanks.

The tailfin will be attached in station 40, we can assume that MSN4 is in station 50 for fuselage join now. It should move to station 40 next month and join MSN2 in station 30 at the end of September or early October (it took MSN2 just under 8 weeks from arrival in TLS to station 30 transfer).

First time 2 A350s will be together in station 30.
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:09 pm

Some useful information about the first flight of Cabin0 can be found here:

http://www.ausbt.com.au/airbus-a350-makes-its-first-virtual-flight
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:27 am

I have some good news, MSN4 is in station 40 since August 19.
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:42 am

Thanks Karel
Did you have a date for station 50 and MSN4 ?
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:53 am

Quoting aviaponcho (Reply 6):
Did you have a date for station 50 and MSN4 ?

If we don't get it 5 days before is a safe bet, was so for MSN003. Good info Karel, lets see how long it takes until MSN004 is in S30, last I have is MSN002, took 48 days from S50 to S30 so say 30-40 days forward, end Sept we shall have MSN004 entering S30 and MSN003 going to flight test.
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:59 am

Ferpe MSN4 receives cabin monument at station 50, might be a little longer than MSN003 maybe ?
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:25 am

For MSN2 I have FAL50 : 13/06, Station 30 : 26/07, so a tad longer than for MSN3 (18/02 -> 15/03)
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:39 am

Quoting aviaponcho (Reply 8):
Ferpe MSN4 receives cabin monument at station 50

MSN4 won't have a cabin, it's a light weight test instrument aircraft.

Quoting aviaponcho (Reply 6):
Did you have a date for station 50 and MSN4 ?

I'll ask   The aft fuselage had arrived on August 7 so station 59 and 50 all happened in just 12 days.

[Edited 2013-08-23 02:40:10]
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:44 am

Oups
Thank you Karel...
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:18 pm

Airbus just teased us with this picture on Twitter:

http://twitter.com/Airbus/status/370869627640741888

Any idea if this is MSN2 or 4, or another wheel set?

[Edited 2013-08-23 05:50:44]
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:32 pm

No A350
Can someone read the tire markings ?
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:39 pm

It's no A350 I think and it doesn't have the tilt of the A330... I'd say the wing gear of an A380
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:50 pm

Sorry I'm not here very often but can someone give a quick update on when the next A350 will take to he skies?
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:56 pm

Due around the start of September - so quite soon if they are still on schedule.
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:41 pm

Quoting StTim (Reply 16):
Due around the start of September

Change that to planned end of September for MSN003, here the complete rollout plan for the test airplanes:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/flighttestprogram_zps1611e5fd.jpg
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:02 pm

MSN3 is in the C63 hangar since August 8, it should have its engines attached by now. I expect indoor ground tests are currently in progress.
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:21 pm

Airbus team leader, Christian Binder:

German: "Wir rechnen damit, dass wir ihn (test jet MSN2) um den Jahreswechsel fliegen sehen."

http://mobil.abendblatt.de/hamburg/h...cc=0&emvAD=320x480&nbcol=0|unknown

Translated with Google:

"We expect that we him (test jet MSN2) flying will see around the new year."

[Edited 2013-08-23 07:43:01]
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:37 pm

I think he's speaking of MSN2 1st cabin equipped A350

So it's Ok with Ferpe's #reply17 planning
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:40 pm

Oops - I sqinted up that slide to the wrong month.      
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:45 pm

Quoting aviaponcho (Reply 20):
he's speaking of MSN2 1st cabin equipped A350

So it's Ok with Ferpe's #reply17 planning


Indeed he is...I had an "oh sh*t !" moment for a second there  
.

"Der dritte Testjet wird mit einer vollständigen Kabinenausstattung abheben. "Wir rechnen damit, dass wir ihn um den Jahreswechsel fliegen sehen.""

the third test aircraft with a full cabin fitting = MSN2
MSN3 is the second test aircraft to be completed and fly
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:47 pm

Quoting Bogi (Reply 19):
"We expect that we him (test jet MSN3) flying will see around the new year."

Not correct translated. It says "The third testjet will take off with a full cabin interior. We expect that we will see him flying around the New Year."

The third testbed is MSN2, not MSN3. The order is MSN1 -> MSN3 -> MSN2 -> MSN4 -> MSN5.

/edit

airmagnac was faster.

[Edited 2013-08-23 07:48:52]
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:07 pm

Section 19 for MSN5 has been spotted today in Hamburg.


A350 part section 19 MSN005 by XFW-Spotter, on Flickr
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:44 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):
hat this is the tailfin of MSN4, spotted in Hamburg today.

The tailfin of MSN4 was transported to TLS today.


A300-600ST Beluga by XFW-Spotter, on Flickr

It flew with the second Beluga, registration F-GSTB. I tracked it, callsign was BGA2TB:

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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:00 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 25):
The tailfin of MSN4 was transported to TLS today.

Great, now keep an eye on the complete tail section of MSN005 and we can then get the entry for P59 for the last prototype .
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:56 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 26):
Great, now keep an eye on the complete tail section of MSN005 and we can then get the entry for P59 for the last prototype

It should be ready soon as FAL start is scheduled for the beginning of October.

BTW capturing the arrival of this MSN5 section is very important, it means we should see the same parts for MSN6 at the end of next month if the supply chain is indeed ramping up to 1 delivery per month.
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:59 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 27):
BTW capturing the arrival of this MSN5 section is very important

Speaking on schedules I tried to go into the latest A schedule pictures we have to see if one could read out anything more, yes you could, several things  Wow!  :

A. Before you present be sure to be syncronized, especially with schedules   . Look at this comparison of schedules from the PAS briefing 6 June, the week before first flight. First the program managements slide prepared for D Evrard:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/flighttestprogram_zps1611e5fd.jpg

and then the flight test centers slide presented by Frank Chapman:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/PASbreifing35015ChapmanwithannotationaboutMSN002and004_zps30d894bf.jpg

Now look at FF (first flight) of MSN002 and 004 in these two slides, Evrard says 002 flies before 004 and Chapman the opposite    . I have also tried to put in half years in Chapmans slide, a bit more iffy but I think the test center thought 002 and 004 flies before new year, Evrards team have another meaning       . I think there is no question that Evrard has the more up to date or politically correct version for outside consumption, the test center did not get this briefing and there were no check on the day they were in sync (you normally do that in a presentation rehearsal, not 100% prof. guys  ).

B. So what is the real timeplan? I would say 3/4 Evrard and 1/4 Chapman, Evrard is breifed on the latest status in the supply chain and told the guy doing the slide to put in some cushion as well, nothing worse then not keeping word   . The test center shows the real plan as they had it a week before first flight    . Add to this that Germany now says MSN002 flies at year end and not end Jan, I think this just add cred. to my interpretation of Evrards slide, has a bit of sandbagging in it  . So how do we handle Chapmans slide? As the real internal plan?? 

[Edited 2013-08-24 00:01:34]
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:21 am

Yes I noticed it too. Not sure what to think about it. Given the assembly status of MSN2 (it's already one month in station 30), I expect it to fly before the end of the year. However, we don't know how much cabin work there has to be done after assembly. Maybe it will spend some time in station 20 for cabin finishing/testing. I don't know.
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:41 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 29):

Yes I noticed it too. Not sure what to think about it. Given the assembly status of MSN2 (it's already one month in station 30), I expect it to fly before the end of the year. However, we don't know how much cabin work there has to be done after assembly. Maybe it will spend some time in station 20 for cabin finishing/testing. I don't know.

I am suspecting that there is a difference between "First Flight" and "Flight Testing" - 2 different terms are used on both slides. It would not be surprising to me if "Flight Testing" includes all formal testing, and considering MSN2 is the cabin tester, a lot of the formal cabin tests could be done on the ground before first flight.
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:57 am

Quoting angmoh (Reply 30):
I am suspecting that there is a difference between "First Flight" and "Flight Testing" - 2 different terms are used on both slides. It would not be surprising to me if "Flight Testing" includes all formal testing, and considering MSN2 is the cabin tester, a lot of the formal cabin tests could be done on the ground before first flight.

It is a good observation, only problem is that it goes in the wrong direction. Evrards slide says F/T ie when the frame gets in the hands of the test deparment and Chapmans slide (which is from that deparment) says that first flight is earlier, now there is now one flying a flight test aircraft outside the flight test department   .
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:56 pm

MSN3 at station 18 in the beginning of August.

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff510/alexcheban/album/229_Airbus/airbus_09.jpg

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff510/alexcheban/album/229_Airbus/airbus_22.jpg

Source http://alexcheban.livejournal.com/152096.html
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:10 pm

Looking at evrard slide it shows msn1 ff in july
So he's got some margins for sure and should be aware that ff could occure sooner
So evrard slides have for me a lower value than chapman...
He's doing pr
A350 wise i learn more on range on the finnair order slides than on leahy's
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:55 pm

Wonder if MSN3 also have some margin than, maybe it will fly a bit sooner.

Quoting aviaponcho (Reply 33):
A350 wise i learn more on range on the finnair order slides

You meant SAS instead of Finnair? Or do you have some slides which I haven't seen before?  
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:33 pm

As the aircraft, engines and main systems all seem to perform without major problems (in fact it seems to go very well  ) the focus now can turn to the business part of the frame, the cabin and all it's systems.

There is an excellent article in the APEX blog on all the work around the A350 cabin to make sure it is going to function correctly:

A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13 (by jetblueguy22 Aug 15 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Here some interesting excerpts:

"Airbus will soon carry out partial maturity and integration testing of the inflight entertainment systems for the A350 XWB, using the same cabin demonstrator which recently completed the type’s first ‘virtual flight’ in Hamburg.

The simulator, known as Cabin Zero, will be used “in the near future” to put part of the A350’s IFE system through its paces, after which “the fully-representative IFE system will be tested with passengers on A350 MSN002 and later with MSN005”, says Airbus."

" Airbus last month used Cabin Zero – a complete A350-900 cabin, minus the centre section – to carry out a five-hour simulated flight in which two pilots, eight cabin crew and 129 passengers took part in all the phases of a real flight, from boarding to disembarking.

More than 4,000 components were tested during the virtual flight and the overall performance was “above the expectations”, says Airbus test director for the exercise, Florian Kayser.

“The CVFF [cabin virtual first flight] was a great success for the Airbus A350 XWB development and test programme, especially so in terms of cabin function, system performance and overall cabin operation, given that some systems, equipment or cabin modules are still in development,” adds Kayser."

Airbus says that if it decides to carry out more virtual flights, either the same demonstrator or MSN002 will be used.

“Airbus will be performing the ‘early long flights’ with MSN002, where the full IFE will be tested with the cabin full of passengers, and later another flight with full passengers on MSN005,” says Airbus head of aircraft interiors marketing Zuzana Hrnkova. “There will also be route proving on normal airline-like operations lasting some weeks on normal routes.

“In parallel, there will be the overall cabin integration and test programme and the head of version testing using the Cabin Zero V&V [verification and validation] platform and functional system integration benches. This will validate new software versions and hardware iterations and configurations in parallel with the actual flight testing.”


So we once again see this strive to check out as much as possible before the flight tests begin, something that was not done e.g. on the A380. On the day of the A350 first flight one of the A380 test pilots admitted "there was not a lot that functioned system wise on the A380 in the beginning of the flight test program" concluding that a test aircraft is no effective integration platform, it is a verification platform   . It seems Airbus has learned this lesson well.

[Edited 2013-08-26 09:36:20]
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:56 pm

So where can we apply for the MSN2 flight(s), I assume Airbus will use volunteers? I know they did it with the A380.

[Edited 2013-08-26 09:58:17]
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:36 pm

Sorry about the link in my post about the APEX blog, this should be the correct one:

http://blog.apex.aero/cabin-interior...y-successful-cabin-virtual-flight/
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:50 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 35):
Airbus last month used Cabin Zero – a complete A350-900 cabin, minus the centre section – to carry out a five-hour simulated flight in which two pilots, eight cabin crew and 129 passengers took part in all the phases of a real flight, from boarding to disembarking.

They were CX crew back in late July. The simulated flight was from Tenerife to Hamburg including a normal meal service heated in the galley.
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:24 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 36):
So where can we apply for the MSN2 flight(s), I assume Airbus will use volunteers? I know they did it with the A380.

With A380 it was Airbus Employees only, selected via a prize draw for those that were interested. It will be the same for A350.
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:47 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 35):
So we once again see this strive to check out as much as possible before the flight tests begin, something that was not done e.g. on the A380

I may have to suggest a slight re-wording of that  

There has always been a strive to check out as much as possible before the flight tests begin, with the "as much as possible" being defined by the available time for simulator tests, and the available simulation technologies (wind tunnels, wooden mock-ups, labs etc... up to computer simulations)
"As much as possible" was usually sufficient, until the turn of the century. At that point, after the digital revolution, the internal complexity of systems increased by an order of magnitude (due to increased use of CAD tools), and each system relied more on sophisticated software than ever before. More importantly the amount of data exchanges between systems increased exponentially. This is because all information from all systems is now in a single universal format ('0's and '1's), it is independant of the physical system layer, and can be routed via electrical or optical lines which are very small, flexible and light (so you can easily add several different routes). And also because the necessary technology, knowledge and hardware had become available and fairly cheap outside of the aerospace industry (for example, the AFDX protocol is based on Ethernet). So basically, exchanging data became really easy, much easier than ever before.

All this meant a huge increase in testing worload, and a significant change in the items to be tested. The traditional ways of working were simply not sufficient for this.

So I wouldn't really say that there was no strive to check out as much as possible for the A380, because they actually did ; I'd rather say that the gap between "as much as possible" and "what is required" had become way too big.
To reduce that gap, the A350 program used new tools, new simulators, new testing strategy and tighter links between design, manufacture and test.
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:57 pm

Quoting bigsmile (Reply 39):
With A380 it was Airbus Employees only, selected via a prize draw for those that were interested. It will be the same for A350.

it was the same for CVFF, also open to interns and maybe temp staff (if any of you want to apply for an intership before the MSN2 flights...   )

Sadly I wasn't accepted   , but maybe for the real flights ?         
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:02 pm

Quoting bigsmile (Reply 39):
With A380 it was Airbus Employees only, selected via a prize draw for those that were interested. It will be the same for A350.

Thanks, one could only hope.
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:10 pm

Quoting airmagnac (Reply 40):
I may have to suggest a slight re-wording of that

Thanks Airmagnac for chipping in and putting things in perspective, somehow one get the feeling that the revised strategy has worked. We don't have access to the test results but we see MSN001 taking of every day when they had planned to (it seems at least) and those days when it is not flying there is evidently a lot of test stuff going on and off. Today we saw new aero test means once again (tufting) that most likely wasn't there Saturday so probably went on when she wasn't flying Sunday and Monday.

The regularity of the test flights with MSN001 is impressive as are the activities in the other test benches.

[Edited 2013-08-27 13:04:57]
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:35 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 43):
one get the feeling that the revised strategy has worked

A lot of work, a lot of stress, a lot of pressure on a lot of people, and still a long way to go and many things that could be done a lot better.
But on the whole, yes, it does seem to be paying off pretty well   
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:52 am

There is even more about the Cabin 0 "flight" and the CX crew in the A350 blog, this is a transcript of this article:

http://www.ausbt.com.au/airbus-a350-makes-its-first-virtual-flight

and here a photo of the Crew in front of Cabin 0:

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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:21 am

I must say I was hoping activity around TLS would have been much higher as MSN0003 and MSN0002 move through the line.

MSN0003 must now be close to paint shop?


- must learn how to type accurately.

[Edited 2013-08-29 00:28:11]
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:29 am

There isn't much to as long as they're inside a hangar.

[Edited 2013-08-29 00:31:23]
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:29 am

Earlier this week, Airbus successfully installed the cabin crew area on MSN2.
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 13

Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:51 pm

And here is MSN2:

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1377873131_PP_01.jpg
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK

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