wjcandee
Topic Author
Posts: 5347
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:17 am

First time I have seen a video of what it looks like from the ground when a guide plane and then a DC10 comes over your house for a drop. Quite an experience, to which the reaction of the videographer and friends attests.

This from the current Yosemite fire: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StbmiJTgbzo

And one remarkable photo from USA Today: http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/c726...76504981003-utahfire081413-004.jpg

[Edited 2013-08-25 19:27:00]
 
MesaFlyGuy
Posts: 3833
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:36 pm

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:31 am

Wow, excellent find! I don't know what would concern me more, the wildfires or the DC-10 LITERALLY flying past my house!  
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
klwright69
Posts: 2441
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:34 am

Yes, I have seen video of the DC10 tanker attacking fires in Colorado before. It is a pretty cool sight.
 
VC10er
Posts: 2293
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:20 am

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1):

What would concern me even more is if a DC-10 flew over me that low and there was no forest fire!!!

She's still very cool looking. I have to wonder if I've been on that DC-10 in its previous life?
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
 
LLA001
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 7:36 am

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:51 am

Was the first aircraft leaving marks for DC-10 to target ?
 
wjcandee
Topic Author
Posts: 5347
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:27 pm

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 4):

Yes. CalFire uses a lead aircraft to show them the route and drop zone. So when the videographer on that video sees the ouff of smoke out the lead plane's back, there's kind of sn "uh-oh" reaction, because he knows what that means.
 
rcair1
Crew
Posts: 1143
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:39 pm

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:51 pm

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1):
Wow, excellent find! I don't know what would concern me more, the wildfires or the DC-10 LITERALLY flying past my house!

They must be dropping a long term retardant. These retardants are effective even when the water has dried out - however, I've not seen this kind of application too often. This appears to be some miles from the fire. In addition - if I were the videographer, I would be worried and packing. There is a lot of unburned fuel between them and the fire. If they are dropping there - either they have a lot of money to spend or they have a realistic expectation that the fire will reach that location. You base your actions on "current and expected fire behavior".
Honestly - based on what you can see in that video of the topography and fuel load - if anything but creepy ground fire comes through - that retardant line will not hold.
I'm actually a little baffled by the drop - which means there probably is information I don't have. It could be a political drop.

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 4):
Was the first aircraft leaving marks for DC-10 to target ?

The lead plane is directing the DC-10 and the smoke signifies where to drop. This is typical for larger air tankers.
rcair1
 
rcair1
Crew
Posts: 1143
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:39 pm

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:07 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Thread starter):
And one remarkable photo from USA Today: http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/c726...4.jpg

That is a pretty amazing photo. I'm sure it was taken by a long lens and it has been enlarged a lot. I'm sure the a/c is a lot farther away from the house/hill than it appears. Still very impressive.

Here is an interesting discussion of the process of carding (approving) the DC-10. This is not dated, so I don't know when it occurred.
http://www.section2wildfire.com/id29.html
rcair1
 
winstonlegthigh
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:15 pm

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:22 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Thread starter):
And one remarkable photo from USA Today: http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/c726...4.jpg

I know it's probably a combination of poor picture quality and the unlikely sight of a DC-10 at nearly ground level (just an illusion, I'm sure it's higher than it looks), but there are terrible photoshop jobs that look more believable than this. Thanks for linking to this great image.

Glad to see a DC-10 being put to good use. The longer they (and the MD-11) stay in the sky, the better.

[Edited 2013-08-26 07:36:51]
Never has gravity been so uplifting.
 
rcair1
Crew
Posts: 1143
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:39 pm

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:17 pm

I just posted a new thread in the non-av forum on aviation use and the High Park fire (Colorado - 2012). While it has aviation aspects, it is more of a non-av thread.

Hope you find it interesting.

A/C Used In Firefighting And The High Park Fire. (by rcair1 Aug 26 2013 in Non Aviation)
rcair1
 
wjcandee
Topic Author
Posts: 5347
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:40 pm

Snappy marketing piece for the 10 Tanker, but contains some cool video. Have to wonder how it is fighting the downdrafts while flying so low along these ridgelines. Some gutsy piloting indeed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQwZQrDOGRk
 
rcair1
Crew
Posts: 1143
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:39 pm

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:37 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 10):
Snappy marketing piece for the 10 Tanker,

Yes - it is - but what is shows it shows nicely is the door drop system configuration. Many feel this is a better system for effective drop than the pump out system in other of the nextgen systems. It can deliver the retardant in a more dense salvo that penetrates canopy better.

I think time will tell on the effectiveness of this type of VLT or ULT tanker.
rcair1
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11022
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:37 pm

Doesn't Evergreen still have a B-742 fire fighting tanker? Why isn't that used in conjunction with the DC-10 fire fighting tanker? The Yosemite fire is pretty big, about the size of the City of Chicago.
 
wjcandee
Topic Author
Posts: 5347
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:39 pm

Evergreen isn't going to be active this season. Forest Service finally offered a contract, but Evergreen decided it was too late in the fire season to pay to rush the a/c through a C-check to reactivate it with no guarantee of any actual revenue. If the USFS commits earlier for the next fire season, then they'll have it then.

By the way, when I was talking about navigating downdrafts along ridge lines, look at this piloting... Wow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zID2xMarrDU

[Edited 2013-08-26 13:48:49]
 
rcair1
Crew
Posts: 1143
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:39 pm

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:06 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 13):
By the way, when I was talking about navigating downdrafts along ridge lines, look at this piloting...

Man - this looks a bit dicey to me - pucker factor for sure. I think a lot of it is the perspective from the long lens, but using the wingspan as a yardstick they looked to be below 300ft. Later videos here give you a better perspective of that they were dropping on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaUDs48h2ns

Quite impressive.
rcair1
 
chrisair
Posts: 1799
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:28 pm

This is a cool video from a C-130 fighting the same fire:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_eGiGG1B-Q

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Doesn't Evergreen still have a B-742 fire fighting tanker? Why isn't that used in conjunction with the DC-10 fire fighting tanker? The Yosemite fire is pretty big, about the size of the City of Chicago.

The 742 never got carded by the USFS, IIRC.

[Edited 2013-08-26 14:28:43]
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:31 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Doesn't Evergreen still have a B-742 fire fighting tanker? Why isn't that used in conjunction with the DC-10 fire fighting tanker?

Here is the USDA Forest Service firefighting aviation page. http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/aviation/

I hate to think of the cost charged for a 74X. A standard rate reimbursable schedule I saw shows roughly $8,500.00 an hour for a C-130. I'm sure it keeps going north from there.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
dragon6172
Posts: 800
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:56 am

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:37 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 6):
They must be dropping a long term retardant. These retardants are effective even when the water has dried out - however, I've not seen this kind of application too often. This appears to be some miles from the fire. In addition - if I were the videographer, I would be worried and packing. There is a lot of unburned fuel between them and the fire. If they are dropping there - either they have a lot of money to spend or they have a realistic expectation that the fire will reach that location. You base your actions on "current and expected fire behavior".
Honestly - based on what you can see in that video of the topography and fuel load - if anything but creepy ground fire comes through - that retardant line will not hold.
I'm actually a little baffled by the drop - which means there probably is information I don't have. It could be a political drop.

That drop came last Thursday or Friday I believe. They were making drops in a line between the fire and the city of Tuolumne. When they talk of 4500 structures being threatened by the fire, the majority of those are in Tuolumne city and county, so that was the big push the first couple of days to put some sort of "barrier" down.
http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/photos/CASTF/2013-08-17-1950-Rim/picts/2013_08_26-14.11.21.961-CDT.jpeg

I believe the east-west valley that starts three grid squares down from the legend in the above map is where you are seeing this drop. You can see Tuolumne just below the legend box. How effective these drops are remains to be seen. You can see the fire has been spreading slower, but I'm not sure that has much to do with these drops.
Phrogs Phorever
 
RCoulter
Posts: 456
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:02 am

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:14 am

Quoting chrisair (Reply 15):
The 742 never got carded by the USFS, IIRC.

Yes it did, Tanker 979 was used on some fires in 2009 and 2010.
 
wjcandee
Topic Author
Posts: 5347
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:07 am

 
PSAjet17
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:50 am

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:33 am

Quoting VC10er (Reply 3):
I have to wonder if I've been on that DC-10 in its previous life?

Tanker 910 N450AX was delivered to National Airlines in 75 and also wore the colors of Pan Am, American, Hawaiian, Omni before joining 10Tanker in 2005

Tanker 911 N17085 was delivered to Finnair in 1975 and jumped to a number of foreign carriers before coming to Continental Airlines, Omni and 10 Tanker.
 
chrisair
Posts: 1799
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:12 am

Quoting RCoulter (Reply 18):
Yes it did, Tanker 979 was used on some fires in 2009 and 2010.
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 19):
http://fireaviation.com/2013/08/22/e...lability-of-their-747-supertanker/

I stand corrected. Thanks guys.

By the way, when that Evergreen tanker was flying, they'd do practice drops near MZJ. You could see the drop zone quite clearly on Google Earth. Not sure if the vegetation has regrown yet or not though...
 
User avatar
Aloha717200
Posts: 3739
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:50 am

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:38 am

I saw that very same DC-10 in person at PIH a couple of weeks ago! It was positively enourmous at such a small facility, and when I saw it on approach to our airport I couldnt believe it. What a magnificent craft.
 
1400mph
Posts: 1051
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:29 am

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:48 am

They don't build 'em like they used to do they.

The DC-10 is an amazingly photogenic aircraft.
 
studedave
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:21 am

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:33 pm

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 20):
Tanker 910 N450AX was delivered to National Airlines in 75 and also wore the colors of Pan Am, American, Hawaiian, Omni before joining 10Tanker in 2005

Wait-- so you are saying that there is a chance that Tanker 910 *might* be the bird I had my first flight on?

National Airlines flew my Family between Sea-Tac and LAX that night a DC-10 lost an engine over Chicago. I was about eight years old so, no- I did not get the reg of our bird. My brother did not want to go, but once we got to LAX- he did not want to get off the plane!!! Somewhere I'll bet I still have the playing cards they gave us...





StudeDave
Classic planes, Classic trains, and Studebakers~~ what else is there???
 
PSAjet17
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:50 am

RE: DC10 Tanker In Yosemite Fire

Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:36 pm

Quoting studedave (Reply 24):
Wait-- so you are saying that there is a chance that Tanker 910 *might* be the bird I had my first flight on?

Delivery date Airline Registration
06/25/1975 National Airlines N69NA
01/07/1980 Pan Am N69NA
11/25/1983 American Airlines N161AA
01/09/1996 Hawaiian Airlines N161AA
11/08/1997 Omni Air International N450AX
01/01/2005 10 Tanker Air Carrier N450AX

https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-dc10-46942.htm

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos