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psa1011
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UA Starting SFO-IND

Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:49 pm

Has this been discussed? I know, it's almost as exciting as the new CTU route http://www.ibj.com/united-plans-dire...san-francisco/PARAMS/article/43241
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:58 pm

Glad to see UA showing a little more interest in the US domestic markets.
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apfpilot
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:15 pm

I am always excited to see my home airport get some new service! Although knowing UA it will be on an EV ERJ.
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roseflyer
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:17 pm

I assume this means that mainline would come back to IND. That's an awful long way for an E170.
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tommy767
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:42 pm

Nice add. Hopefully ATL-SFO will be added back soon.
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MSYtristar
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:44 pm

Most likely A32S or B738. IND should have no problem filling that flight. Nice to see UA add more SFO domestic flying.
 
point2point
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:48 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 5):
Nice to see UA add more SFO domestic flying.

UA is being smart and adding midsize U.S. cities to its SFO Asia/Australia/Pacific hub. These domestic additions I would think would coincide with connections TPAC.

 
 
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psa1011
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:02 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 4):
Nice add. Hopefully ATL-SFO will be added back soon.

Yes, and any chance of MEM/BNA?
 
catiii
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:20 pm

Not so sure this is as done a deal as the IBJ lets on:

"Carlo Bertolini, spokesman for airport, said in an email to IBJ on Wednesday morning that the airport “has not been advised that any decision is in place regarding potential United service between [Indianapolis and San Francisco].”

United officials did not return a request for comment Wednesday morning."
 
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:24 pm

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 7):
Yes, and any chance of MEM/BNA?

I expect UA to add SFO-BNA within the next few years. BNA has strong links is offering incentives for the route and I believe that the planned launched of this route is the only reason the BNA remains a mainline station for UA (even though they haven't had a mainline flight in something like 5 years).


MEM probably not.
 
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:29 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 6):
UA is being smart and adding midsize U.S. cities to its SFO Asia/Australia/Pacific hub. These domestic additions I would think would coincide with connections TPAC.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, they are low on terminal space during those times. It is largely the reason that STL-SFO, for example, does not operate to connect with Asian flights (though it can connect reasonably with Australia).
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:32 pm

Nothing official here, although SFO-IND certainly wouldn't come as a surprise given all the UA expansion at SFO (both domestic and international) in recent years. Indianapolis is now one of the largest domestic markets without nonstop UA service to SFO, and may very well be on the shortlist with the likes of ATL, BDL, BNA, CLT, CMH, DTW, TPA, etc.
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tommy767
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:18 pm

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 11):

In many ways it's almost shocking that large markets like TPA, ATL, CLT do not have UA service to SFO when smaller cities like RDU, FLL, and PIT do.
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Indy
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:41 am

I wonder if DL is going to turn around and add this route too.
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Flytravel
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:59 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 12):
In many ways it's almost shocking that large markets like TPA, ATL, CLT do not have UA service to SFO when smaller cities like RDU, FLL, and PIT do.

United sells CLT-SFO flights operated by US. When US breaks away from Star, I assume UA will not be selling those flights?

It's said that Tampa is not a large business market. Also, the route is not like a NE-Florida 2 hour trip, which serves a snowbird/visiting friends and retirees purpose. I assume it would have to rely on Bay Area based leisure pax more than TPA based pax. So, maybe VX could make a go on it but it could stimulate the route. I can't see WN interested, as it's too long and WN still has an aversion to flying transcons unless it services a business route (e.g. BWI-SAN).

As for ATL, DL dominates it offering service to two Bay Area airports, and FL, low cost carrier in the mix with low cost high frequency ATL-SFO as well. I think FL used to fly it 4x, but it seems WN is now flying 1x with FL only flying 2x.

With WN likely over time not being as low cost as FL and offering less frequency with a dehubbing ATL, fares can rise and the market can fragment to something where more carriers could offer service (but something where WN offers 2x, VX offers 1x, UA offers 1x rather than FL offering 4x), but DL still dominating with most frequency amongst all carriers.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 9):
I expect UA to add SFO-BNA within the next few years.
WN is strong in BNA and linking business markets from it, and WNhas a lot of departures from the three airports in the Bay Area. Wouldn't it also be a viable operator of the route?

[Edited 2013-08-29 20:14:40]
 
as739x
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:53 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 12):
In many ways it's almost shocking that large markets like TPA, ATL, CLT do not have UA service to SFO when smaller cities like RDU, FLL, and PIT do.

TPA very low yield, ATL I can see returning, CLT has had US covering it for Star. Once US leaves I can see CLT happening.

There are rumor of a second SFO-RDU flight, that's how well its doing.
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YXwatcherMKE
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:54 am

Wow if that happens for IND I sure would like to see MKE get N/S service to SFO too! I know what your all going to say, but ORD is just 90 miles to the south. Yes it is, However, we have a number of companies here in the MKE metro area that do a great deal of business in the Silicon Valley area and SFO. Plus some Big Companies that have a big connection to the Pacific Rim region. And yes I know we have WN going to SFO but they don't have any interline with UA or any other international carriers.
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shaq
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:01 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 12):
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 12):
In many ways it's almost shocking that large markets like TPA, ATL, CLT do not have UA service to SFO when smaller cities like RDU, FLL, and PIT do.

In my opinion, there may be two reasons.
1) This cities do not have high PDEW numbers to Asia, as RDU, PIT, and FLL.
2) There is too much competition
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usflyer msp
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:04 am

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 14):
WN is strong in BNA and linking business markets from it, and WNhas a lot of departures from the three airports in the Bay Area. Wouldn't it also be a viable operator of the route?

BNA is mainly interested in improving its Asian connectivity, which WN to SFO would add nothing to...
 
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:09 am

You'll see CLT once US leaves star.
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point2point
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:21 am

Quoting steex (Reply 10):
I wouldn't be so sure about that, they are low on terminal space during those times. It is largely the reason that STL-SFO, for example, does not operate to connect with Asian flights (though it can connect reasonably with Australia).
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 12):
In many ways it's almost shocking that large markets like TPA, ATL, CLT do not have UA service to SFO when smaller cities like RDU, FLL, and PIT do.

Well...... I think that at this point the UA route planners certainly have their work cut out for them. First off, before any new destination basically east of DEN (and then of course ORD and IAH) that overflies other UA hubs will have to show that it has the O&D to support such, and O&D will be the first deciding factor as to when new routes to SFO get added. ATL is probably a no-brainer...... but of course DL is there, but UA should welcome the competition. CLT will probably see flights once US leaves *A. As for a number of other cities..... the O&D will have to be there...... or a hub connection will suffice for UA.

Next, if UA is to determine the TPAC connects, I suppose that they would have to have hard numbers to push flights into their busy time from any new long-(possibly)-thin destinations....... and if there is some possible strong connect traffic atop the O&D..... then UA needs to make the best hay of such and schedule accordingly.

With all of the obvious that I've stated above..... I think that there are possibly a dozen or so markets that could fit such to SFO. Then it's only a matter of - can these dozen or so flights be crammed into an already busy airport time so that UA can maximize on both O&D and connects? ...... and push as much positive $$$$$ into its coffers so as to make Smisek and shareholders very happy? And UA could possibly offer one less stop (connection) over a lot of other hubs, and for this quite a few fliers would be happy to pay the premium.

 
 
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:21 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 19):
You'll see CLT once US leaves star.

I doubt it. Wells Fargo and Bank of America drive much of the volume on CLT-SFO and doubt they would drop US, especially since US serves the route 5-6x daily while UA would likely be 1x daily.
 
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:30 am

Quoting as739x (Reply 15):
There are rumor of a second SFO-RDU flight, that's how well its doing.

Look at what is the bread and butter business of the RDU region...that's all you need to know as to why this route is performing so well.
 
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:13 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 12):
In many ways it's almost shocking that large markets like TPA, ATL, CLT do not have UA service to SFO when smaller cities like RDU, FLL, and PIT do.

Both RDU and SFO are major technology hubs with lots of biz traffic. Many of the high tech companies in the bay area also have a site in the RDU area. Between software, services, hardware, biotech and medical there are over a 100 companies with significant sites both in the bay area and the research triangle.
 
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:12 pm

This is the flight I was dreaming of when I was in college in Indiana.
 
catiii
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:22 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 13):
I wonder if DL is going to turn around and add this route too.

They'd get beaten up on it if they do. UA provides a ton of connectivity on the SFO side to make it work that DL can not provide on either end.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:02 pm

Quoting spink (Reply 23):

RDU-SFO I'm glad is doing well. For many years AA, DL, UA neglected RDU transcon flights and now all of a sudden there is high demand out of the market. Even stubborn AA now flies RDU-LAX after years of procrastination.

FLL-SFO makes no sense as to why there would be connections to Asia. The flight is not even timed to meet the bulk of the midday transpac connections. It's indeed an evening flight, likely around for leisure traffic (although there isn't a strong correlation between Bay Area people vacationing in Florida and the Caribbean, they go to Hawaii.) Who knows? It could be a matter of time before the route is dropped in favor of MIA-SFO.

I believe that UA can fly ATL/CLT-SFO and there wouldn't be much risk involved at all. TPA-SFO is a business market and could be served on a 73G. Heck, they even brought back MSY-SFO which doesn't strike me as a particularly strong business route.

There are also other routes that I think could work from SFO: CMH-SFO and DTW-SFO comes to mind.
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MSYtristar
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:22 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 26):
eck, they even brought back MSY-SFO which doesn't strike me as a particularly strong business route.

Pretty large O&D market which saw nonstop service by UA for well over a decade prior to Katrina. It was only a matter of time before they brought that one back.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:36 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 27):

During that time UA continued to fly MSY-LAX though.
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AVENSAB727
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:19 am

I wonder if there is any chance of UA starting any domestic flights out of HOU, to compete with WN.
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CONTACREW
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:32 am

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 29):
I wonder if there is any chance of UA starting any domestic flights out of HOU, to compete with WN.

Nope not likely.
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as739x
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:25 am

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 29):
I wonder if there is any chance of UA starting any domestic flights out of HOU, to compete with WN.

Not a chance!!!!
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United1
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:27 am

Quoting as739x (Reply 31):
Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 29):
I wonder if there is any chance of UA starting any domestic flights out of HOU, to compete with WN.

Not a chance!!!!

About as likely as WN restarting flights out of IAH to compete with UA  
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MSYtristar
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:29 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 28):
During that time UA continued to fly MSY-LAX though.

They still fly that route today.  
 
Cubsrule
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:28 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 18):
BNA is mainly interested in improving its Asian connectivity, which WN to SFO would add nothing to...

Given that most of the Asian business connections in Nashville are in the automotive industry, the 6 daily DTW flights plus some connections over ATL, DFW, ORD, LAX, etc. pretty well take care of all the Asia connectivity we need.
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RDUDDJI
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:53 am

I think IND-SFO will be a good route for UA. UA seems to really be building up at SFO.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 26):

RDU-SFO I'm glad is doing well. For many years AA, DL, UA neglected RDU transcon flights and now all of a sudden there is high demand out of the market. Even stubborn AA now flies RDU-LAX after years of procrastination.

Quasi ironically, when UA-US proposed a merger in 2000ish, one of the routes they promised to add to sweeten the pot, was RDU-SFO. I remember seeing that in a presentation (along with other promised routes) but I can't seem to find it online.
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tommy767
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:16 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 35):
Quasi ironically, when UA-US proposed a merger in 2000ish, one of the routes they promised to add to sweeten the pot, was RDU-SFO. I remember seeing that in a presentation (along with other promised routes) but I can't seem to find it online.

I've seen that chart before. They also promised BOS-NRT.

Back then JI flew RDU-SJC on the 73G. A completely different time in the industry.
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:31 am

Generally speaking What is the current transcon schedule from IND these days?

1x SFO UA ?
1x LAX AA 738
1x SLC DL 320
2x LAS WN 737
2x PHX US 320
1x PHX WN 737


Not a bad schedule of transcons really for INDY these days it looks like if im accurate?
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:56 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 37):

DL's got a 320 to LAX as well. I flew it in July 2010.
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ipodguy7
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:17 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 34):
Given that most of the Asian business connections in Nashville are in the automotive industry, the 6 daily DTW flights plus some connections over ATL, DFW, ORD, LAX, etc. pretty well take care of all the Asia connectivity we need.

If I'm remembering correctly, the SF Bay Area is the largest unserved domestic market from Nashville (used to be Boston, but thanks to WN earlier this year we regained BNA-BOS service). We used to have a seasonal non-stop to OAK, but I'm not entirely certain if it still exists.
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Cubsrule
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:45 pm

Quoting ipodguy7 (Reply 39):
If I'm remembering correctly, the SF Bay Area is the largest unserved domestic market from Nashville (used to be Boston, but thanks to WN earlier this year we regained BNA-BOS service).

That's correct. My point was simply that the need for BNA-SFO is more about the nonstop demand as well as demand to some secondary west coast cities (PDX, GEG, etc.) much more so than Asia.
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apodino
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:28 pm

Just a thought....does IND even have much UA mainline? I think IAH is the only mainline service left for UA in IND....which is kind of sad after UA spent all that money on a MX facility only to shutter it shortly after it was built.
 
United1
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:10 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 41):
which is kind of sad after UA spent all that money on a MX facility only to shutter it shortly after it was built.

The facility was opened in 1994 and closed in 2003 during BK so they did get a few years of use out of it  
Quoting apodino (Reply 41):
Just a thought....does IND even have much UA mainline? I think IAH is the only mainline service left for UA in IND

There are no mainline flights out of IND...not even to IAH.
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COSPN
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:04 pm

State of Indiana was the biggest looser in that one ...out Millions for the IMC and Unenploypemt payments to hundreds of layed off mechanics... they did have 737 and A320 flights to IAH this summer so good to see mainline back to IND a busy s/CO station..
 
FWAERJ
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:41 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 37):
2x LAS WN 737

At its peak around mid-2008, IND-LAS was 3x WN 737, 1x FL 737, and 1x NW A320. In fact, G4 cited the excessive competition at IND that was killing their yields as a reason for dropping FWA-LAS that year. As the Great Recession hit, FL was the first to bail (though they brought back the route briefly on a less-than-daily basis right before the WN/FL merger). Then after the DL/NW merger, DL cut IND-LAS to Fri/Sat/Sun-only service from daily, then dropped the route. And shortly after DL dropped the route, WN went from 3x to 2x. So in the course of four years, about 60% of the capacity on IND-LAS went away. For an airport of IND's size, that's a huge capacity loss, but the traffic was probably low-yield to begin with like most LAS traffic.

As for G4 at FWA: With the excess capacity gone, I could see FWA-LAS making a comeback as soon as G4 moves to bigger LAS spaces and bases the A319 there, much like FWA-AZA's surprise return recently.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 37):
2x PHX US 320
1x PHX WN 737

At one time, WN was the same size as US on the route - both had 2x daily service. And I was surprised that it was WN that went to 1x on IND-PHX and not US... my guess is that US has a bigger FF base even after the IND dehubbing long ago. Should the AA/US merger not be blocked, it will be interesting to see what AA does with IND-PHX and IND as a whole. The merged carrier will be #3 at IND behind #1 WN (including FL-coded flights) and #2 DL, and will have two huge local FF bases (with US Dividend Miles being the larger of the two, though AAdvantage has a big following in Indy, too).

[Edited 2013-08-31 14:45:55]

[Edited 2013-08-31 15:04:01]
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:53 pm

As per UA's website, service will be on an a319, leaving SFO at 1315 and arriving IND at 2051. The return leaves at 0800 arriving SFO at 1000.
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WNCrew
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:07 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 37):
Generally speaking What is the current transcon schedule from IND these days?

Not to nitpick but seeing as IND is basically 1/3 of the way across the US I wouldn't say it has any "transcon" flights.
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DeltaRules
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:45 pm

Good for IND. As others suggested, I have to wonder if CMH-SFO isn't too far down the road. I've seen at least two articles in The Columbus Dispatch where CMH is hounding airlines for new service (they'd mentioned VX and AS, though), and that SFO was one of the biggest dots on the map unserved directly from Columbus.

CMH just picked up twice-daily LAX flights thanks to the new AA service and the DL flight, which has been in place since 2006 and has been bumped back to daily to take on American.
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Rdh3e
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:56 pm

Quoting wncrew (Reply 46):
Not to nitpick but seeing as IND is basically 1/3 of the way across the US I wouldn't say it has any "transcon" flights.
SFO-IND is 80% of the distance of SFO-IAD, and 85% of the distance of LAX-IAD. It's practically transcon at 1,943 miles.

Similarly, if you would consider any west coast flights out of ATL to be transcon, then so are flights out of IND.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SFO-IND,+SFO-IAD,+LAX-IAD,+LAX-ATL

[Edited 2013-09-05 07:58:41]
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: UA Starting SFO-IND

Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:05 pm

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 21):
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 19):
You'll see CLT once US leaves star.

I doubt it. Wells Fargo and Bank of America drive much of the volume on CLT-SFO and doubt they would drop US, especially since US serves the route 5-6x daily while UA would likely be 1x daily.

Bank of America will stay with US, but I would expect Wells Fargo would switch to UA, since they are headquartered in SFO.
Seaholm Maples are #1!