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KarelXWB
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Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:22 pm

Delta ordered 30 A321s and 10 A330-300s today. Many of the A321s will be built in Mobile, Alabama.

> A321s to have CFM56 engines
> A330s to have GE engines
> The A330s ordered are the new 242-ton version

Sources:
http://twitter.com/AirbusInTheUS/status/375246830961192960
http://twitter.com/AirbusInTheUS/status/375248044188778496
http://twitter.com/FlightDKM/status/375248534087274497

Press release:
http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=2095

[Edited 2013-09-04 06:42:19]
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:25 pm

Congrats!   

Interesting to see CFMs on the A321s - almost everyone goes IAG on A321...




[Edited 2013-09-04 06:39:26]
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:28 pm

I bet DL got them for a nice low price.
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KPDX
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:29 pm

Pretty good order!

Congrats to DL and Airbus.   
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:31 pm

For some reason I see a certain A.netter not being happy about this....  

Congrats to Delta and Airbus!
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rafflesking
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:32 pm

30 frames is hardly a subfleet, but interesting to see how the A321s fit in with the 100 739s Delta is about to start receiving.

Anybody know if the A333s are for capacity growth or to replace older 763s?
 
FlyingAY
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:35 pm

Funny how the rumor in May was spot on (that thread is a fun read as well):
RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330 (by Triple7Lr May 25 2013 in Civil Aviation)
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:35 pm

Guess the 321 painting at ATL thread starter a few months ago was right!

Kudos on the scoop!
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n7371f
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:36 pm

Based on the F20 layout for the 321's, it's looking more realistic for the rumored 757 reconfiguration down to F20 from F22-F26.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:40 pm

From the press release:

Quote:
The 10 A330-300 aircraft will augment Delta's existing fleet of 32 A330s. The first A330 delivery is scheduled for spring of 2015, with three additional airplanes scheduled for that year, four in 2016, and the final two in 2017.

Delta will be the first airline to operate the enhanced 242-metric ton A330-300, which offers additional payload capacity and range. Delta will use the aircraft's versatility to optimize its Pacific and Atlantic networks.

The A330 will feature 34 full flat-bed seats with direct aisle access in BusinessElite, 32 extra-legroom seats in Economy Comfort and 227 Economy seats. The international aircraft will feature in-flight Wi-Fi and industry leading in-flight entertainment with a library of more than 1,000 on-demand options, as well as standard 110v power, modern interiors with LED lighting, and extra-capacity overhead bins.

And the A321s:

Quote:
The 30 A321s will expand Delta's existing fleet of 126 A320-family domestic aircraft. Delta's first three A321s are scheduled for delivery in the first quarter of 2016, with 12 more due in that year. The remaining 15 jets are scheduled for 2017.

The Airbus A321 will have 20 First Class seats, 22 extra-legroom seats in Economy Comfort and 148 seats in the Economy cabin. Every A321 will feature in-flight Wi-Fi, industry leading in-flight entertainment with live satellite TV and on-demand options, and standard 110v power. The A321 will also offer Economy cabin seats that are among the widest in the industry.

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=2095

[Edited 2013-09-04 06:43:37]
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jayunited
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:44 pm

Congrats to Delta and Airbus.

I wonder will the A321 be deployed on some of Delta's longest transcontinental routes perhaps because as some have suggested in other threads the current 739 struggles at certain times of the year to make these long nonstop flights? Perhaps the A321 is a better fit on certain transcon flights year around?
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:45 pm

Nice order.
The A330's improvements are paying off, and the A321 is nicely landing itself in the spot where the 757 used to be.
I suppose the A330s will be replacing some 763s. Would they be used mostly on domestic routes?

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 2):
I bet DL got them for a nice low price.

Second post... An improvement, I suppose.
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:46 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 4):
Congrats to Delta and Airbus!

And to GE and CFM.  . But congrats are indeed in place. Good news for all parties involved.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 4):
For some reason I see a certain A.netter not being happy about this....  

Luckily we as A-netters do not make the real decisions in the real world.  .
 
william
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:47 pm

Now we see why DL is beginning to park the 757s in the desert.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:52 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 2):
I bet DL got them for a nice low price.

From the press release-

"This Airbus agreement is another opportunistic fleet transaction for Delta in which we acquire economically efficient, proven-technology aircraft," said Richard Anderson, Delta's chief executive officer. "These A330s and A321s will provide tremendous flexibility for Delta to optimally manage our capacity over the next five years while further improving the flight experience for our customers and returns for our shareholders.

"Disciplined capital deployment is a cornerstone of Delta's comprehensive financial plan," said Paul Jacobson, Delta's chief financial officer. "These Airbus aircraft will generate free cash flow and improve our return on invested capital from the time they enter service."

Delta proves you do not have buy the latest and greatest model to make money. Yeah Delta got a good deal.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:53 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 2):
I bet DL got them for a nice low price.

Of course.

What I'm curious about is whether this Airbus deal includes a couple of other elements:

1) Taking more CRJ-200's off Delta's hands. DL recently downgraded their expected fleet total for the CR2 and it was widely believed they would use this order to get those extra frames taken from their hands.

2) Is there a life extension project now for the early build 320's? Richard was asking Airbus to come up with a serviceable cycle extension for the 320's delivered to NWA starting in 89 (up through ships 3250). Last I was told was Airbus was hesitant on this and RA might try to tie the order to this.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:54 pm

Congrats to DL and Airbus.

Will there be a follow up order for A321 NEO from Delta in the near future as well, or did DL just shop for the much cheaper A321 CEO slots available??
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:54 pm

Question: how many A320-ceo slots are still left with this order?

BTW: Nice to see that many of the A321 for Delta will be build in Mobile, AL.  
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:55 pm

I said a long time ago that Delta wasn't done with Airbus. It is good to see them utilize both Boeing and Airbus for their ever growing needs. While I fully expected the Airbus order to be A32XNEO's and A350XWB, this is a pleasant surprise. I think with the larger cabin of the A320 family, I think we should expect a follow on order in the future once a good price/deal can be had with Airbus, you will see A321NEO's configured with their premium domestic product to run JFK-SFO/LAX/SEA. I can see DL maybe growing their premium offering by adding that service LAX-IAD/BOS/ORD. Maybe even on the ATL rotations that aren't on international configured widebodies. IMHO, the A321 is a better 757 replacement than the 737-900. I do see the 737-900 being a better fit for 757 routes like ATL-MCO/MSY/MIA/FLL/RSW/PBI/TPA, as the 737 is definitely a bit lighter than the A320 family.
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:56 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
Interesting to see CFMs on the A321s - almost everyone goes IAG on A321...

More interesting that they didn't go for the A321neo.
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:57 pm

With DL(NW) being the early launch customer, they certainly could have have 789's delivered in the 2015-2017 range. Why defer the a/c you have a deposit on and that has newer technology vs. ordering the A330?

Interesting that DL is using the A321 / B739 combo vs. one or the other like UA (B739) or AA (A321). There must be a big enough difference in performance to have both contrary to the other Big 3.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:59 pm

Was trying to post pic, but would paste on reply so here is a link to a A321 pic.

https://twitter.com/FlightDKM/status/375248534087274497

[Edited 2013-09-04 07:00:27]
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:00 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 17):
Question: how many A320-ceo slots are still left with this order?

Last time I checked the number was 100, but that's without the Kingfisher order for 40 A320s (which will be canceled).
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:03 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 19):
More interesting that they didn't go for the A321neo.

Mobile isn't due to start delivering aircrafts before 2016. Does that mean that mobile will assemble late CEOs, or will it assemble both CEOs and NEOs?
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:03 pm

Congrats DL and Airbus!

Now that's pretty much every US legacy carrier with Airbus aircraft on order:

AA
UA
DL
US
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:03 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 10):
I wonder will the A321 be deployed on some of Delta's longest transcontinental routes perhaps because as some have suggested in other threads the current 739 struggles at certain times of the year to make these long nonstop flights? Perhaps the A321 is a better fit on certain transcon flights year around?

I see DL using them against AA 321s JFK-LAX, JFK-SFO, JFK-SEA, and maybe JFK-PDX or JFK-SAN. Just a guess on my part, but it will come down to hard/soft products and frequency. Both carriers are trying to improve their LA presence, and also capture as much of that premium NY - LA traffic as they can, and both carriers have a decent JFK and LA presence.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 12):
Luckily we as A-netters do not make the real decisions in the real world.

Nothing truer has ever been written on this site.  
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:04 pm

Quoting william (Reply 21):

here you go:

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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:05 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 22):
Last time I checked the number was 100, but that's without the Kingfisher order for 40 A320s (which will be canceled).
OK. Thanks for the numbers. Anyway, the available number of slots for ceo-A320's is getting quite small now.  



[Edited 2013-09-04 07:07:14]
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:07 pm

The A330 is an excellent airplane and will provide much-needed lift to the Pacific. The 763ER is a suboptimal machine for transpacific ops, and the higher-gross-weight A333 will deliver A332 performance with greater payloads. A small, safe order, but a wise one.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:09 pm

A totally in-character and unsurprising order! A signal DL wants to maintain & strengthen the status quo...

Quoting rafflesking (Reply 5):

30 frames is hardly a subfleet, but interesting to see how the A321s fit in with the 100 739s Delta is about to start receiving.

Maybe a subfleet in context of 120+ A32x already at the airline.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 11):
Would they be used mostly on domestic routes?

Not at all. The high weight A333 is designed for oceanic flying. Airbus now claims the 242t version will have 6100nm range. Not bad. The A333 wades into space today occupied by DL's (expensive) 777s and A332s. Freeing them to do new things.

This heavy A333 can do things like MSP-NRT. On about half the fuel of the 742s that flew the route 10 years ago.

[Edited 2013-09-04 07:11:11]
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:10 pm

Fleet commonality is often overrated on here, but DL's fleet seems to be getting exponentially complex
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vfw614
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:11 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 19):
More interesting that they didn't go for the A321neo

As they are also adding 717s and MD90s at a time when other airlines are dropping them like hot potatoes, they seem to have a different philosophy when it cames to aircraft purchases. They seem to like the idea of lower acquisition costs although this means that they will not have the newest technology.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:11 pm

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 18):
the A321 is a better 757 replacement than the 737-900

Why is that?


Wow well that is definitely surprising! Reading A.net you become indoctrinated in the thinking that Delta only buys Boeing and has a special deal with Boeing, and you start to believe it yourself!
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:17 pm

Quoting n7371f (Reply 8):
Based on the F20 layout for the 321's, it's looking more realistic for the rumored 757 reconfiguration down to F20 from F22-F26.

While that is always a possibility, the A321s are slated for a delivery start date in 2016. I think DL is trying to align these A321s with the B739. Granted the A321 will have 10 more seats overall, it seems to be a safe bet that they are trying to closely align the future birds with one another.

As stated over on FT from someone who works in TechOps, the 757s will not be going down to 20. And if the rumor about AAR receiving the contract is true about DL, then it looks like they are going to be keeping only 56 757s in the fleet.
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:18 pm

Quoting FlyingAY (Reply 6):
Funny how the rumor in May was spot on (that thread is a fun read as well):
RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330 (by Triple7Lr May 25 2013 in Civil Aviation)

That is an extremely fun read. So do pilot rumors now move up the list of rumors that could possibly be true?
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:19 pm

Fascinating. And how sweet after the usual suspects queued up in various threads to rubbish the idea that Delta was buying A321s or that they'd buy more A330s.  

But I'm intrigued (not to say thoroughly disappointed) that they went for GE on their A330s. Then again, PW must be even more disappointed at losing a customer.

Oh, I forgot. PW only choose to bid for "strategic" orders. They aren't much interested in... er, in selling engines.  

But GE are fighting for business on the A330. Iberia, Turkish and now this.

(But they still lost Philippines Airlines to RR!    )
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:19 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 23):
Mobile isn't due to start delivering aircrafts before 2016. Does that mean that mobile will assemble late CEOs, or will it assemble both CEOs and NEOs?

Mobile will assemble both in the beginning because there is a transition period CEO -> NEO between 2015 and 2018. This applies to all A320 plants, the last A320ceo should be delivered in 2018.

[Edited 2013-09-04 07:23:33]
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:19 pm

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 16):
Will there be a follow up order for A321 NEO from Delta in the near future as well, or did DL just shop for the much cheaper A321 CEO slots available??

No one can predict the future, but I think it is reasonable to assume that Delta's long term narrowbody fleet needs are sufficiently large to justify the participation of both A and B.

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 20):
Why defer the a/c you have a deposit on and that has newer technology vs. ordering the A330?

With respect to the 787, this really is a question that answers itself.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):

Fleet commonality is often overrated on here, but DL's fleet seems to be getting exponentially complex

Fleet commonality is often not well understood here. Both fleets of new a/c will bring a high degree of commonality in the areas where it matters.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:23 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 11):
A321 is nicely landing itself in the spot where the 757 used to be.
Quoting william (Reply 13):
Now we see why DL is beginning to park the 757s in the desert.

I agree nearly all of these will replace 757s.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:25 pm

Quoting william (Reply 14):
Delta proves you do not have buy the latest and greatest model to make money. Yeah Delta got a good deal
Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 16):
Will there be a follow up order for A321 NEO from Delta in the near future as well, or did DL just shop for the much cheaper A321 CEO slots available??

The proven technology line shows DL is more interested in having fuel efficiency at a great price instead of paying a big price for the most fuel efficient, latest and greatest model out there. I doubt you'll see NEO's any time soon, just like I wouldn't expect to see a MAX order any time in the next 5 years either. Like the 321 CEO, they went with the 739ER's for a reason.

Makes me wonder if DL will try to eventually replace the 744's with a great deal from Boeing on the last 773's off the line, as opposed to forking over the big bucks on future 779's or even 351's
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:27 pm

Quoting rafflesking (Reply 5):
Anybody know if the A333s are for capacity growth or to replace older 763s?
Quoting FlyingAY (Reply 6):
Funny how the rumor in May was spot on (that thread is a fun read as well):
RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330 (by Triple7Lr May 25 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Boy, it would be fun to go back and quote some of the comments on that page   
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:27 pm

The A333 order makes a ton of sense. DL has a hole in its widebody fleet which is getting increasingly painful as it starts more transpacific services from SEA: the 772 is too heavy for these 5000 nm routes, while the A332 and 763 are too small to be optimal (and the 763 lacks the range for some of the routes) The heavy A333 is the perfect machine for those flights, and will cost almost nothing to integrate into the fleet.

The A321 order... I find it rather more surprising. Given that the early A320s are now up for retirement, and the big 739ER order, I expected Delta to continue ordering narrowbodies from Boeing. But they are big enough that operating NBs from both makers is no problem, and I'm sure an order like this helps keep both makers on their toes.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:33 pm

Excellent News! Congrats to Delta and Airbus.... I also think this is a smart order... Delta get some of the best current aircraft available, at a very low price I'm sure, and still compete perfectly well with other airlines in the future. Most pax won't care if they fly an B787 or an A330 really... if the hard and soft products offered are similar, it won't make any difference really to most pax. if you want more space, you probably will go with the A330 anyways as its configured in a 2-4-2 vs 3-3-3 that the B787 has... Plus, Delta is doing prudent choices that so far are true, they buy reliable proven aircraft than the newest in the block that breaks down constantly.... Just look at United's B787 on-time performance...
Plus, you get some of the very first Airbus built in America...

Anyways, congrats to Airbus for winning this order....

BTW, is there is any website that shows the progress of the Airbus plant in Alabama and how the plant would look? It would be great to get more information about that.
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:38 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 10):
in other threads the current 739 struggles at certain times of the year to make these long nonstop flights?

Many of these urban legends date back to the first 739A deliveries in 2001. AS tried to deploy them on their now defunct SEA-IAD route. Now they fly them N-S on the west coast.

As far as the 739ER is concerned, UA flies them maximum-load, year-round on BOS-SFO at 2704 sm. But remember, UA also flies a few elderly, limited-range 739As owned by pmCO.

Also btw, a few of A.net's CEO types used to *swear* that they had *proof* that B6's and US's 320s were making *regular* tech stops on their way to the west coast.

[Edited 2013-09-04 08:17:20]
 
luckyone
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:38 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
Fleet commonality is often overrated on here, but DL's fleet seems to be getting exponentially complex

Is it? Both new additions in the 739ER and the A321 are basically the same aircraft from a pilot and systems perspective that they already have. The 757's are going to be leaving, the Maddogs as well. In the end they will be eliminating a pilot group.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:38 pm

Quoting atnight (Reply 42):
BTW, is there is any website that shows the progress of the Airbus plant in Alabama and how the plant would look? It would be great to get more information about that.

Here's a render:

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1341234944_Airbus_FAL_Alabama_3D_aerial_view.jpg

You can download a high-res version here:

http://www.airbus.com/typo3conf/ext/...abama_3D_aerial_view.jpg&mode=save
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 1772
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:38 pm



Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 4):
For some reason I see a certain A.netter not being happy about this....

Count me as one of them, as I am highly disappointed to see the direction they're headed fleet-wise. Oh well...

I really think Boeing shot themselves in the foot by shutting down the 757 line before they had a real replacement, the 739ER just doesn't cut it, and now we're going to see a lot of the legacy 757 carriers having to order A321's to replace them.

[Edited 2013-09-04 07:44:10]

[Edited 2013-09-04 07:45:17]
 
n7371f
Posts: 937
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:45 pm

Quoting xjramper (Reply 33):
As stated over on FT from someone who works in TechOps, the 757s will not be going down to 20. And if the rumor about AAR receiving the contract is true about DL, then it looks like they are going to be keeping only 56 757s in the fleet.

Referring to F20 -- 20 first class seats, not 20 ships. Yes, the AAR contract is widely viewed in the industry as Delta.
 
msp747
Posts: 299
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 6:42 pm

RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:47 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 45):
The 757's are going to be leaving, the Maddogs as well. In the end they will be eliminating a pilot group

How do you figure? I see a lot of the 757's leaving, but they will still have a large fleet, even after these new planes come on board. Why else would they spend the money to upgrade so many of them. And what makes you think the Mad Dogs are leaving any time soon? Have you seen anything that says they are? Considering how long the DC9's stuck around, I think it is safe to say the Mad Dog fleet has staying power at DL. I'd bet the oldest A320's disappear before the Mad Dogs
 
airbazar
Posts: 6873
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Delta Orders A330s, A321s

Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:47 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 19):
More interesting that they didn't go for the A321neo.

I don't expect to see a NEO in DL's fleet any time soon for the following reasons:
TATL: DL doesn't need them as they have a very good JV for TATL ops and they can get better costs out of operating larger aircraft.
S.America: Unfortunately ATL is just a bit too far even for the NEO.
Domestically: The CEO can do the job just fine.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 29):
Not at all. The high weight A333 is designed for oceanic flying. Airbus now claims the 242t version will have 6100nm range. Not bad. The A333 wades into space today occupied by DL's (expensive) 777s and A332s. Freeing them to do new things.

Or parking them. The 772's especially are slowly but surely going the way of the A340.

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