THEFLLFLYER
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United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:32 pm

UA announced 3 new routes from its ORD hub today: State College, PA, Topeka, KS, & Elmira, NY. All flights will be operated DBA Expressjet on CRJs.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/united...nces-routes-chicago-155500310.html
 
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:39 pm

Nice to see UA or AA add anything at ORD! Seems other hubs have had the more recent action, cool adds.  
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:15 pm

SCE / UNV has wanted ORD service for years. Its a major destination for the region and for university related travel.

This service directly competes with the DL DTW-SCE service for connections to the western US and Asia.
Since SCE/UNV is an existing UAX station, it seems like a reasonable add.

I wouldn't have been surprised to see AA/US add ORD-SCE if/when the merger occurs. US has historically been the largest carrier at SCE and it would make sense to add ORD service for westbound connections. Perhaps this is a pre-emptive strike by UA.
 
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:48 pm

A return of UA to FOE. If memory serves the flew there for a short time in the late 80s or early 90s. I think it was a continuation from ORD-MCI then on to FOE.
 
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:15 pm

Nice to see some new domestic routes by a legacy carrier announced for a change.

[Edited 2013-09-09 12:17:05]
 
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:16 pm

Possibly airports convenient to shale-oil / hydraulic fracturing business in north central PA? The Rochester paper has reported lots of people moving in for the business, and rents rising drastically in a historically moderate-cost area.

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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:30 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):
US has historically been the largest carrier at SCE and it would make sense to add ORD service for westbound connections.

Really? Based just on flights to PHL or have they flown elsewhere, too? I just finished 8 years at PSU and used SCE for the first time only back in March for an interview. I have a friend who used it a LOT but he was almost always flying DL to DTW.
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:45 pm

Quoting THEFLLFLYER (Thread starter):
DBA Expressjet on CRJs.

The timetables list E145
 
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:56 pm

Quoting SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):
SCE / UNV has wanted ORD service for years. Its a major destination for the region and for university related travel.

Shows you what thousands of media people coming and going from PSU for the past two years will do for an airport.  
 
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:39 pm

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 6):
Really? Based just on flights to PHL or have they flown elsewhere, too? I just finished 8 years at PSU and used SCE for the first time only back in March for an interview. I have a friend who used it a LOT but he was almost always flying DL to DTW.

US flew both PIT-SCE & PHL-SCE before they shut-down the PIT hub in 2004. SCE used to be a former Allegheny DH8 pilot base before they merged Allegheny into Piedmont. I believe US also flew SCE-BWI at some point.

They still have ~6 flights per day to PHL, and US has the most seats in the market.

DL flies DTW-SCE at 3x per day weekdays, but down to 1-2x per day on the weekend with CRJs.
The DTW service, carried-over from NW has provided the best service onward to the Midwest and West.
US does not have a lot of midwest service from it PHL hub, or in its network in general.

DL flew CVG-SCE for a few years during the CVG hub hey-days. DL also briefly flew ATL-SCE.
 
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:06 pm

Quoting SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 9):
DL also briefly flew ATL-SCE.

I remember that. I think he was cancelled my sophomore year or something.

Thanks for the rundown on SCE. I remember when it was expanded back in the late 90s and Southern Miss allegedly refused to fly into it (they would've been the first team to fly directly to SCE rather than fly to a "nearby" city and bus in). lol
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:36 pm

Good, some new overnights!
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:39 pm

I wish UA would try DEN-COU.
Maybe a good q400 route.
 
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:44 pm

Quoting organizethesky (Reply 3):
A return of UA to FOE. If memory serves the flew there for a short time in the late 80s or early 90s. I think it was a continuation from ORD-MCI then on to FOE.

I agree nice to see anyone start FOE trips. I remember UA did FOE-LNK-ORD among other routes from Topeka.
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:17 am

Quoting quickmover (Reply 12):
I wish UA would try DEN-COU.
Maybe a good q400 route.

UA is really keeping DEN Q routes close. MCI and OMA (off and on) are about as far as they're going to go. Not to mention nearly all of the Q400 growth (re-growth) as the final Q400s get onboard with YX for the balance of 2013 will head to EWR. They are not nearly as adventurous as Lynx was. Most Qs are limited to ski resort towns because of their superior field and cargo capabilities to the CR7.

I wonder if UA would give RST or LSE a try with a run to ORD and/or DEN. RST still does have a SCASD grant dangling for a DEN connection (from last year; I believe the grant is still usable) and there are already plenty of folks who run RST-ORD on AA and then "connect" to a United flight elsewhere out of ORD. Like FOE, it is an underserved market because of big cities close by but has some untapped potential, especially west.
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:31 pm

Thinking back to my childhood, I seem to recall a time when UA had a tag on flight from MCI to FOE. Maybe just my bad memory, though.
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:31 pm

I'm actually surprised these cities are not covered under Essential Air Service to CLE. They are a bit farther but I think it would be good for the 1900D.
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:09 pm

Quoting n797mx (Reply 16):

I'm actually surprised these cities are not covered under Essential Air Service to CLE. They are a bit farther but I think it would be good for the 1900D.

FOE aside, which is obviously not very proximate to CLE, they're not going to hand out EAS funds for airports that already have a decent chunk of service. ELM and SCE both have DL to DTW and US to PHL, plus ELM has G4 service and SCE has UA to IAD.
 
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:19 pm

Quoting christao17 (Reply 15):
Thinking back to my childhood, I seem to recall a time when UA had a tag on flight from MCI to FOE. Maybe just my bad memory, though.

When Midway was known as Midway Metrolink, they did FOE-MCI-MDW flights. They and Frontier pullled out near the same time right after the (then) new terminal was finished IIRC.

Actually was from regular Midway thru to Metrolink times. See them on route map between 4/83 and 3/85.

http://www.departedflights.com/ML030185.html

[Edited 2013-09-10 16:22:17]
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:04 am

I was just thinking...

EDIT: Ugh. My bad. Feel free to delete. I completely misread which Asia destinations Delta served through DTW. I knew something had to be wrong as I was typing the post.

[Edited 2013-09-11 19:07:54]

SCE probably has to have a lot of traffic to Asia (well, compared to its size as an airport) due to the presence of the University. DL and UA will duke it out for that traffic.


[Edited 2013-09-11 19:08:56]
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:57 pm

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 19):
SCE probably has to have a lot of traffic to Asia (well, compared to its size as an airport) due to the presence of the University. DL and UA will duke it out for that traffic.

SCE supports a decent amount of traffic, not just for the university, but all of the research and businesses that have located in Centre County due to the proximity of the University. Plus SCE provides air service for a large geographically disperse area, that cover literally the entire center of the state. Covers the whole region from east of PIT, north of MDT and west of ABE / AVP. This includes places like Altoona, Dubois, Clearfield, Williamsport, etc. While there is some token EAS and/or US service to PHL into some of those airports the service is very limited.

Sure, there is traffic to Asia and that is really the icing on the cake. Students only travel at the end of semester and many will bargain shop which could easily mean getting a ride to NYC or WAS to fly back to Asia.

UA already had connectivity to Asia over IAD before but ORD helps too. Plus, the somewhat unreliable turboprop service to IAD didn't help the cause versus RJs over DTW.

For a while, the airport was pushing to get air service to NYC from SCE. In reality, the only one that made marginal sense was SCE-EWR for UA/CO hub connectivity. For O&D traffic, it makes far more sense and better use of time to just hop on I-80 and drive to the greater NYC area that risk a delay-prone flight to EWR and then still need ground transportation in end. Post-merger, UA already had SCE linked to the IAD hub so EWR made zero sense. CLE doesn't have the connectivity.

ORD improves UA connectivity to the midwest and west, plus connects well to the other Big 10 Universities. ORD has a large alumni base. ORD (Chicago) is one of the larger cities for recent graduates, and many companies come to PSU to interview from the Chicago area and/or fly out candidates for interviews.

I do wonder, if they may reduce IAD-SCE down to 2x per day with the new added ORD service.
 
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:16 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 20):
ORD (Chicago) is one of the larger cities for recent graduates, and many companies come to PSU to interview from the Chicago area and/or fly out candidates for interviews.

That's a good point. UA already has connectivity to the DC area, which has an enormous amount of recent graduates for many big universities like Penn State and Michigan.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 20):
I do wonder, if they may reduce IAD-SCE down to 2x per day with the new added ORD service.

I wonder what the load factors are on these several-times-daily flights for the various carriers, anyway, out of SCE. Like I said above, I've physically used SCE for only one trip before and my UA flight from IAD was barren but my DL flight to DTW was fairly well filled. Of course, the DL flight was an evening flight and the UA flight was an early afternoon one...

Summer has to be horrible for SCE, even if it covers a large geographic area. My knowledge of SCE as it were before I even set foot in the terminal, I was prone to drive elsewhere to catch flights (like PIT-MSP in October 2011). It was way more than worth it to drive to Pittsburgh and park for a few days than to fly out of SCE.
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:45 pm

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 21):
That's a good point. UA already has connectivity to the DC area, which has an enormous amount of recent graduates for many big universities like Penn State and Michigan.

State College - DC is a driving trip, makes zero sense to fly, particularly with the need for ground transportation on either end of the trip.

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 21):
I wonder what the load factors are on these several-times-daily flights for the various carriers, anyway, out of SCE. Like I said above, I've physically used SCE for only one trip before and my UA flight from IAD was barren but my DL flight to DTW was fairly well filled. Of course, the DL flight was an evening flight and the UA flight was an early afternoon one...

I worked out there for a few years, man now over 10 years ago but still fly regularly into the airport a few times per year.

Like most smaller airports, demand can be more variable - days are completely full, other days quite light.
In some cases the inbound to SCE would be completely full, and the outbound would have single-digit passenger counts. This is part of the reason why it costs more to fly into smaller airports, since the costs need to be spread over an overall smaller number of passengers.

Loads were obviously always high around start/end of the semester, breaks, home football weekends, graduation, THON, Arts Fest, 4th of July, etc.

Weekdays would see primarily business & university related travel, plus the retirees/alumni

Summer was generally fairly busy, again because of the business related travel, and that its the prime travel season for families out of school for the summer.

Lately on my flights to SCE, I've seen/talked to a number of passengers that were headed for Northern PA and the shale gas industry.

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 21):
Summer has to be horrible for SCE, even if it covers a large geographic area. My knowledge of SCE as it were before I even set foot in the terminal, I was prone to drive elsewhere to catch flights (like PIT-MSP in October 2011). It was way more than worth it to drive to Pittsburgh and park for a few days than to fly out of SCE.

If one has the time that is very true. SCE leaks a ton of traffic to BWI, PHL, and PIT (primarily to catch WN flights). If one has the time and the ground transportation it can make sense.
 
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:24 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 20):
Sure, there is traffic to Asia and that is really the icing on the cake. Students only travel at the end of semester and many will bargain shop which could easily mean getting a ride to NYC or WAS to fly back to Asia.
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 22):
State College - DC is a driving trip, makes zero sense to fly, particularly with the need for ground transportation on either end of the trip.

My understanding from a friend who lives there (and used to live in Alexandria) is that Washington/Pittsburgh/Philadelphia are all about a 3 hour drive from State College.

Not too bad, but its definitely not fun to get in the car and drive 3 more hours after a trans-con. or international flight covering multiple time zones.
 
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:10 pm

UA is smart by opening these new, low density routes with minimal expense. These are the markets that the Southwests and JetBlues of the world can't tap into because they don't have any small regional jet/props that fit these markets.

If UA/UAX gets 50-80 pax a day in these markets, that's 50-80 pax that aren't driving to MCI or PHL to catch their flights...and many of those pax might be going to a competitor. If FOE-ORD works out, FOE-DEN/IAH might be on the horizon.
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cjg225
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:23 pm

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 23):
My understanding from a friend who lives there (and used to live in Alexandria) is that Washington/Pittsburgh/Philadelphia are all about a 3 hour drive from State College.

I think it's actually a 4 hour drive, depending on where you're going. It's about 100-120 minutes to Harrisburg and then another 2 hours to DC.

But his point, I believe, was in response to my comment that implied there would be a big amount (relatively speaking) of O&D traffic between SCE and IAD rather than traffic connecting through IAD, as you say.
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:53 pm

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 18):

When Midway was known as Midway Metrolink, they did FOE-MCI-MDW flights. They and Frontier pullled out near the same time right after the (then) new terminal was finished IIRC.

Actually was from regular Midway thru to Metrolink times. See them on route map between 4/83 and 3/85.

According to this:

http://www.departedflights.com/ML82reportp1.html

Midway inaugurated service to both Topeka (via Kansas City) and Lincoln (via Omaha) during the air traffic controllers strike as a way to expand their network at a time when they were unable to obtain additional slots in the Chicago area.
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RE: United Announces ORD-SCE/FOE/ELM

Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:29 pm

Good for UA to start some of these routes. AA has been pretty successful recently starting routes into smaller cities into their megahub of DFW. UA doing this to ORD should do pretty well.

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