Jerseyguy
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Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:18 pm

In a move that I guess signals their continued path to ULCC, Frontier canceled service from Wilmington to Houston effective October 2nd but won't waive the fare difference on a reroute of effected pax thru DEN. I guess this means when you fly Frontier you need a backup plan now.

http://www.delawareonline.com/articl...Frontier-charges-fliers-to-Houston
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AWACSooner
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:20 pm

Sorry guys, but this is the treatment you can expect from airlines like this.

But as long as they make a profit, I guess we can't possibly gripe, can we?
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:28 pm

Quoting jerseyguy (Thread starter):
In a move that I guess signals their continued path to ULCC, Frontier canceled service from Wilmington to Houston effective October 2nd but won't waive the fare difference on a reroute of effected pax thru DEN. I guess this means when you fly Frontier you need a backup plan now.
Quoting awacsooner (Reply 1):

Sorry guys, but this is the treatment you can expect from airlines like this.

Hmmmm? The pax were offered a refund.

To fly through DEN would have meant a two day journey with 11 hours in transit. Why would anyone want that?

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point2point
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:30 pm

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 1):
Sorry guys, but this is the treatment you can expect from airlines like this.

But as long as they make a profit, I guess we can't possibly gripe, can we?

No, one cannot expect treatment like this from any airline.... F9 needed to take proper care of those who had tix here. Bad bad bad community outreach by F9 here.

And it's a bigger gripe if F9 doesn't make a profit. However, I don't know how many pax are involved here, but I doubt that rerouting them without a charge would have too much affect on any bottom line. Yes... it's a few dollars more.... but how much more could it be if the route wasn't performing that well anyway?

 
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:39 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 2):
Hmmmm? The pax were offered a refund.

To fly through DEN would have meant a two day journey with 11 hours in transit. Why would anyone want that?

Yes, they were offered a refund but most paid $100RT for their tickets not even close to what they could get from other carriers from BWI or PHL. And if passengers held nonrefundable car or hotel reservations they would have been stuck paying $200-300 more for a ticket on another carrier because they would have been able to get their money back for their hotels and such.

My brother and his family bought 5 tickets on the route (luckily they were in August and were completed). Had they canceled on him, it would have cost him $1000-$1500 extra to fly another carrier. If he decieded to cancel his trip he would have been stuck with a $600 non refundable hotwire car reservation, $500 in nonrefundable hotel charges. It wouldn't have been the optimal thing but it would have saved him alot of money.
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MAH4546
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:43 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 2):
To fly through DEN would have meant a two day journey with 11 hours in transit. Why would anyone want that?

Huh? It's a one day journey with ~2 hours in transit. Convenient? No.

Should it have been offered at no additional cost? Absolutely.
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:50 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 2):
Hmmmm? The pax were offered a refund.

To fly through DEN would have meant a two day journey with 11 hours in transit. Why would anyone want that?

mariner

Just offering a refund is not sufficient. They made an offer, the passengers accepted and a contract was made, and should be carried out. I understand cancellations and that things can change but it is very unfair to passengers. Additional options with no increase in cost should have offered.

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 4):
Yes, they were offered a refund but most paid $100RT for their tickets not even close to what they could get from other carriers from BWI or PHL. And if passengers held nonrefundable car or hotel reservations they would have been stuck paying $200-300 more for a ticket on another carrier because they would have been able to get their money back for their hotels and such.

  

Tugg
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roseflyer
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:51 pm

I don't think what Frontier did was technically in violation of any regulations, but it is bad customer service not to offer to reroute passengers when it is possible. Frontier should have offered to rebook passengers via Denver. That is standard industry practice. If for example United ended Norfolk-Houston nonstop service, they'd offer to reroute all passengers via IAD or ORD.
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GentFromAlaska
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:57 pm

In that the FAA is citing airlines; WN and UA thus far perhaps there is a contract of carriage violation which could be pursued.

Because it's a route and not an entire city closure; hence Columbia, Missouri. The carrier has an obligation to the carry the paid passenger from point A to B be it circuitous at no additional cost. to the paid passenger.

Sorry a refund doesn't cut the mustard for plans that were set in motion months ago.

F9 should step up as a corporate citizen and honor the tickets already purchased. The flying public should not be penalized for bad route planning decisions made by the airline.
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:57 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 2):
Hmmmm? The pax were offered a refund.

Nowhere near the point. The rules and restrictions on tickets these days basically prohibit passengers from making any changes to the agreed-upon (and paid for) itinerary without having to pay a lot more money. Change fees and the like. And that's all good.

So why should it be any different at all when the airline makes the changes on its own? It's somehow exempt from the same pocketbook penalty for failing to hold up their end of the bargain? BS. The passengers bought the tickets. Frontier should be on the hook for providing the service they agreed to provide. And at the agreed-upon price. This is bait and switch, clearly.

Just another indication of how the "new" Frontier may be cheaper in the short term but is an increasingly bad value in the long run. Not the greatest of business models...
 
roseflyer
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:59 pm

I took a look at the Frontier contract of carriage and they do have the requirement to reroute passengers built in. This would be something to file a complaint over:

C. Schedule Change -- When a passenger is delayed because of a change in the Airline’s schedule,
arrangements will be made to:
1) Transport the passenger over its route system to the destination, next stopover point, or connecting point
shown on its portion of the ticket, without stopover when possible.
2) Refund the cost of the ticket or unused portion of the ticket in accordance with Rule 260 - Involuntary
Refunds.
3) If onward transportation cannot be provided within 3 hours of the original schedule arrival, the passenger
may be rebooked on another carrier with which the Airline has Ticketing and Baggage agreements.
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:52 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 5):
Huh? It's a one day journey with ~2 hours in transit. Convenient? No.

From the article:

"Maureen Cushing, the bride’s aunt, said she was told that if she chose to take a connecting flight, she would need to leave the prior day and then spend 11 hours in transit."

mariner
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GentFromAlaska
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:13 am

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 10):
C. Schedule Change -- When a passenger is delayed because of a change in the Airline’s schedule,
arrangements will be made to:
1) Transport the passenger over its route system to the destination, next stopover point, or connecting point
shown on its portion of the ticket, without stopover when possible.
2) Refund the cost of the ticket or unused portion of the ticket in accordance with Rule 260 - Involuntary
Refunds.
3) If onward transportation cannot be provided within 3 hours of the original schedule arrival, the passenger
may be rebooked on another carrier with which the Airline has Ticketing and Baggage agreements.

Someone needs to print the CoC before it mysteriously disappears into cyber space.

In rank order I assume item C.1 takes precedence over C.2 and C.3 and is at the discretion of the contracted passenger to select which one he wants.
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:21 am

Frontier should have paid for carriers out of Phl. This isnt ulcc model, this is totally class less. I'm disappointed in this behavior.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:24 am

I'm surprised F9 kabashed ILG-IAH during the TTN closure. You almost have to think IAH was a forward looking new Apple city and gateway which didn't pan out.
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MAH4546
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:29 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 11):
"Maureen Cushing, the bride’s aunt, said she was told that if she chose to take a connecting flight, she would need to leave the prior day and then spend 11 hours in transit."

A quick check of Frontier's booking engine shows it offers connections via DEN in both directions with a two hour transit. Though the days might be different; I didn't check that.
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:32 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 15):
A quick check of Frontier's booking engine shows it offers connections via DEN in both directions with a two hour transit. Though the days might be different; I didn't check that.

So are you suggesting she's telling fibs in the article?

Mind you, I note that they had to go all the way to Milwaukee and find an "analyst" who used to work for Midwest to get the most negative comments.

Such is life.  

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jr
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:37 am

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 7):
I don't think what Frontier did was technically in violation of any regulations, but it is bad customer service not to offer to reroute passengers when it is possible.

Is it legal really? Maybe, I wouldn't know. But is it ethical?

Quoting mariner (Reply 11):
"Maureen Cushing, the bride’s aunt, said she was told that if she chose to take a connecting flight, she would need to leave the prior day and then spend 11 hours in transit."

That sounds like something that came out of a bull's back side for some reason. Again, what would I know? Does the story she was told line up properly with the reality behind the airline's schedule for connecting via DEN to IAH?

I always rooted for Frontier and wanted to see them succeed. I think my opinion is beginning to change.
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Jerseyguy
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:45 am

The schedule varies widely with some days the connection being as little as an hour and 15 minutes but on October 3rd it will take 10hrs and 46 minutes to get to IAH via DEN.

F9 0395 ILG 01:20 PM DEN 03:20 PM

Layover: 4h 20m

F9 0148 DEN 07:40 PM IAH 10:59 PM
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OB1504
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:49 am

Quoting jerseyguy (Thread starter):
In a move that I guess signals their continued path to ULCC, Frontier canceled service from Wilmington to Houston effective October 2nd but won't waive the fare difference on a reroute of effected pax thru DEN.

Even Spirit would've waived the fare difference in this case. What's happening to Frontier is a shame.

Quote:
“We offered fares as low as $59 each way as introductory offers between Wilmington and Houston, and unfortunately, those fares do not cover the cost of the connecting flights between Wilmington, Denver and Houston,” O’Malley said.

They're not supposed to! The difference is supposed to be made up in ancillary revenue. Does Frontier not know how a ULCC makes money?

[Edited 2013-09-09 17:50:25]
 
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:52 am

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 10):
I took a look at the Frontier contract of carriage and they do have the requirement to reroute passengers built in. This would be something to file a complaint over:

It's poorly drafted, because there is no "or" between the items on the list, but I would interpret that part of the CoC as giving the airline the option. Since they are offering refunds, they are technically complying with the CoC. Still horrible customer service and worth a good shot of bad publicity.
 
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:52 am

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 18):
The schedule varies widely with some days the connection being as little as an hour and 15 minutes but on October 3rd it will take 10hrs and 46 minutes to get to IAH via DEN.

So you think she is telling fibs, too? Why would she do that?

But if she is telling porkies then it throws the whole article into question.

mariner
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GentFromAlaska
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:55 am

Ladies and Gentlemen we have to remember just because the press may say it is so doesn't always make it so.

The media has been known to go out of their way to find the saddest of sad stories. As a PR (external affairs) guru in a federal unified command I've found myself having to correct the media about the accuracy of a story.

[Edited 2013-09-09 17:58:48]
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Jetmarc
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:56 am

Sounds (reads) like a gray area in the CoC since it doesn't say F9 can or cannot charge a differnece in fare. But I was under the impression that by purchasing a ticket, both parties entered into a contract that clearly states transportation will be furnished between these to cities on F9s route map, or given a refund, etc... But I also thought there were DOT rules that stated all fees and such must be produced upfront and cannot be added or required after a confirmed purchase which this seems to be. Almost a case of bait and switch.
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Jetmarc
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:02 am

From the DOT Enchancing Airline Passenger Protections PDF:

Bans the practice of post-purchase price increases in air transportation or air tours unless the increase is due to an increase in government-imposed taxes or fees and only if the passenger was provided full disclosure of the potential for the increase and affirmatively agreed to the potential for such an increase prior to purchase.

• Requires any seller of scheduled air transportation to notify a consumer of the potential for a price increase for the scheduled air transportation prior to the time that the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer and to obtain the consumer’s written consent to the potential for such an increase prior to accepting any payment, including a partial payment.
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Tugger
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:05 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 19):
Quote:
“We offered fares as low as $59 each way as introductory offers between Wilmington and Houston, and unfortunately, those fares do not cover the cost of the connecting flights between Wilmington, Denver and Houston,” O’Malley said.

They're not supposed to!

Not only that but they likely don't cover the cost of the flight it is on (on a per passenger rate) as they were likely special introductory rates of which there were a select number per flight. The pricing was done for advertising purposes and for what all airlines do with staging fares in time/quantity buckets etc. That O'Malley said that is just stupid.

Quoting mariner (Reply 21):
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 18):
The schedule varies widely with some days the connection being as little as an hour and 15 minutes but on October 3rd it will take 10hrs and 46 minutes to get to IAH via DEN.

So you think she is telling fibs, too? Why would she do that?

But if she is telling porkies then it throws the whole article into question.

Perhaps there weren't/aren't seats in the desired fare buckets that the airline was offering to her as an option. She could easily be telling the truth and yet there could also be seats and flights available that have a shorter connection, so the question is: What was Frontier willing to offer?

Tugg

[Edited 2013-09-09 18:08:58]
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Jerseyguy
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:11 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 21):
So you think she is telling fibs, too? Why would she do that?

But if she is telling porkies then it throws the whole article into question.

She's not telling lies, Mariner. The wedding as told by the article is on Saturday October 5th, the nonstop would have been on the 4th and the alternative flight would then be on the 3rd. I know you are a big fan of Frontier but they dropped the ball, if they were smart they would pick it up.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 22):
Ladies and Gentlemen we have to remember just because the press may say it is so doesn't always make it so.

Please note there is also another traveler on Flyertalk that is saying this as well
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/21384780-post141.html
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:18 am

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 26):
She's not telling lies, Mariner. The wedding as told by the article is on Saturday October 5th, the nonstop would have been on the 4th and the alternative flight would then be on the 3rd. I know you are a big fan of Frontier but they dropped the ball, if they were smart they would pick it up

I'm not the one who suggested who had her facts wrong - you did. You provided an alternate schedule that, you said, disproved what she said.

Whether I am a "fan" of Frontier or not has nothing to do with it. I don't/can't fly 'em. I just look at the facts. The route is cancelled, she was offered her money back.

If Frontier has "dropped the ball" - as you claim - then someone should complain to the DOT.

mariner

[Edited 2013-09-09 18:22:46]
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Tugger
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:23 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 27):
If Frontier has "dropped the ball" - as you claim - then someone should complain to the DOT.

Do you think it rises to the level of an actual DOT claim? Or is more likely just a bad customer service screw up and bad PR?

Tugg
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Jerseyguy
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:24 am

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 18):
The schedule varies widely with some days the connection being as little as an hour and 15 minutes but on October 3rd it will take 10hrs and 46 minutes to get to IAH via DEN.

Where exactly did I say in that sentence she was lying. I did say that it varied by the day but I also said that it will take 10:46 on October 3rd that would make her comment correct. In my mind if the total time was 10 hours 46 minutes one would probably round up to 11 hours.
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:30 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 28):
Do you think it rises to the level of an actual DOT claim? Or is more likely just a bad customer service screw up and bad PR?

I don't think it is a DOT complaint at all, I think it is a storm in a tea cup.

Bad p.r.? Mayhap. But airlines have survived far worse than this. I look at the amount of "bad p.r." that Spirit gets, or Ryanair, and I scratch my head.

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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:35 am

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 29):
Where exactly did I say in that sentence she was lying.

She said she'd have to leave the day before. You said she could do it in one day.

And there's a discrepancy there, because Frontier doesn't fly ILG-DEN the day before October 3 - or the day after.

mariner
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Boston
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:36 am

F9 is a joke. I just got back from a trip today and this was my first trip with them. 3/4 of my flights were delayed, boarding was horrendously slow and completely disorganized, gate agents didn't care that half the plane was going to miss their connections. They only would help people bound for 2 cities, so the rest of us were told to talk to an agent in Denver when we get there instead of trying to provide us with information before we boarded. My fare was definitely cheaper than UA or DL, but you certainly get what you pay for. F9 is discontinuing service to my city anyway, but they would be my one of my last choices if I had the option to fly them in the future. Always have been, and always will be a die hard UA fan.
 
Flytravel
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:49 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 19):
ven Spirit would've waived the fare difference in this case.

I've booked on Spirit, and it canceled a flight on me. Spirit just refunded me the fare, and the next day fare was a lot higher. No discount. They also didn't go out of their way to book me on a legacy carrier (e.g. US) at no charge.

More large scale, it stranded a lot of pax in foreign countries also, in 2010, when they had a pilot strike.

It seems that it didn't have to, but, F9 should have offered to route ILG-DEN-IAH for those request it at no fare increase.

Or as a second option: offer a refund AND some Early Returns points for a free flight that could be used elsewhere. DL has given SkyMiles to me for very delayed flights. Atleast that gesture would be something so that locals wouldn't swear off the airline, for other routes F9 might fly like ILG-MDW.

[Edited 2013-09-09 18:53:25]
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:59 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 31):
She said she'd have to leave the day before. You said she could do it in one day.

And there's a discrepancy there, because Frontier doesn't fly ILG-DEN the day before October 3 - or the day after.

Yes, she was originally booked on the nonstop on October 4th. They canceled the nonstop flight and there was no ILG-DEN flight on the 4th. Therefore in order to get to the Wedding that was happening on October 5th she would have to leave the day before (October 3rd) and spend 11 hours between flight times and connection times going ILG-DEN and DEN-IAH.
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XT6Wagon
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:17 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 30):
I don't think it is a DOT complaint at all, I think it is a storm in a tea cup.

Um, F9 broke the law(s) if this is accurate. We have all kinds of laws protecting consumers from various forms of Fraud.

I'm pretty sure that "not amused" would be the most charitable feelings a judge and/or jury would have if F9 tried to explain that they can cancel on customers at the last minute if they don't wish to pay extra. Its called bait and switch, and its very much not allowed in ANY industry.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:58 am

Quoting Boston (Reply 32):
Always have been, and always will be a die hard UA fan.

Bias noted. With F9 leaving ABQ you are free to move about the country on the carrier of your choosing.
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SiouxATC
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:19 am

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 36):
Bias noted. With F9 leaving ABQ you are free to move about the country on the carrier of your choosing.

Bias? Or a customer requesting reasonable service? I would agree, I'd take WN, DL, UA, or AA anyday over F9.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:46 am

Quoting Boston (Reply 32):
F9 is a joke. I just got back from a trip today and this was my first trip with them. 3/4 of my flights were delayed, boarding was horrendously slow and completely disorganized, gate agents didn't care that half the plane was going to miss their connections. They only would help people bound for 2 cities, so the rest of us were told to talk to an agent in Denver when we get there instead of trying to provide us with information before we boarded. My fare was definitely cheaper than UA or DL, but you certainly get what you pay for. F9 is discontinuing service to my city anyway, but they would be my one of my last choices if I had the option to fly them in the future. Always have been, and always will be a die hard UA fan.

You never mentioned that you were stranded in Denver overnight, so I take it you weren't. Perhaps those 2 cities were places where there would be no further service that day from DEN and they would have been transfered to another carrier at the station you were in. 3/4 of your flight (103 people) wouldn't have been able to have been served by 1 or 2 gate agents in ABQ or whatevet city you were in and better served by the multitude of agents in the airlines main hub (DEN). Would you have preferred that they rescheduled all 103 of you and further delayed your flight. You got to DEN, they did their job and rescheduled you to get you home on the same day and got you on the best flight home. Your flights weren't the best because of the delays but I highly doubt that they were as horrible as you make them sound.
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flashmeister
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:13 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 25):
Not only that but they likely don't cover the cost of the flight it is on (on a per passenger rate) as they were likely special introductory rates of which there were a select number per flight. The pricing was done for advertising purposes and for what all airlines do with staging fares in time/quantity buckets etc. That O'Malley said that is just stupid.

Using Frontier's logic here, it would be completely acceptable to demand more money from each passenger prior to boarding in cases where the flight's revenue didn't cover costs. Wanna go? Pony up more money.

If they did that, many MANY more people would be howling. It's all the same logic, though -- passenger obligated to airline, airline completely unobligated to passenger: you get there when/if you get there.

I'm puzzled that F9 thinks that this is the path forward, but it's a free country. I certainly won't be bothering them with my business.
 
Maverick623
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:16 am

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 35):
Um, F9 broke the law(s) if this is accurate.

  

While they can offer to either rebook the passenger for no extra charge or refund the fare, they are absolutely prohibited from charging extra to reroute the passengers.
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Tigerguy
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:21 am

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 37):
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 36):
Bias noted. With F9 leaving ABQ you are free to move about the country on the carrier of your choosing.

Bias? Or a customer requesting reasonable service? I would agree, I'd take WN, DL, UA, or AA anyday over F9.

And it all boils down to what the customer wants. If you like a legacy, you won't likely find Frontier to be reasonable. Yes, I have a bit of a soft spot for F9 (if the signature didn't give it away). Flew them a fair amount and was Ascent and/or Summit for two or three years. Granted, the bulk of that was before the beginning of their shift to the ULCC model. That, coupled with some scheduling changes and a change in the pattern of where I fly, means that UA is now my first choice (and I happen to be pleased with them, too). That aside, I am equal parts surprised and unsurprised by the move from F9. It's another change that I think is unfortunate, but I wish them well as they reinvent themselves.

Frontier may have been following the letter of the rule, but from an outside perspective, it makes it seem like they're giving everybody the shaft. Taking the extra step to help people out and show some understanding goes a long way. Back then, I chose them because I knew what I was going to get. Now, well...should I choose them again, I know what I'm going to get, and what to do if I want extra.

Quoting mariner (Reply 30):
Bad p.r.? Mayhap. But airlines have survived far worse than this. I look at the amount of "bad p.r." that Spirit gets, or Ryanair, and I scratch my head.

And F9 will survive this. One concern is how people will note the change. I don't know how perceptions of Spirit and Ryanair started out, but it's a big shift in Frontier's perception if people go from seeing them as a full-service airline that's a different animal to lumping them with Spirit.
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:34 am

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 34):
Yes, she was originally booked on the nonstop on October 4th. They canceled the nonstop flight and there was no ILG-DEN flight on the 4th. Therefore in order to get to the Wedding that was happening on October 5th she would have to leave the day before (October 3rd) and spend 11 hours between flight times and connection times going ILG-DEN and DEN-IAH.

The "discrepancy" is in what she said it was going to cost on that one date (October 3) - at least two days ago when this article first came out and on that date fares were less, and at least partially confirmed by the Flyertalk comment that you linked.

Quoting Tigerguy (Reply 41):
And F9 will survive this. One concern is how people will note the change. I don't know how perceptions of Spirit and Ryanair started out, but it's a big shift in Frontier's perception if people go from seeing them as a full-service airline that's a different animal to lumping them with Spirit.

I first flew Frontier in 1998 and it wasn't full service then. But whatever the perception of it, that "old" Frontier, however warm and fuzzy, went bankrupt.

mariner
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flashmeister
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:42 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 42):
I first flew Frontier in 1998 and it wasn't full service then. But whatever the perception of it, that "old" Frontier, however warm and fuzzy, went bankrupt.

So, what? Because they went bankrupt they now have the right to screw their customers harder than they would have otherwise? I don't buy that Frontier acting like a stand-up, reputable company is what put them in Chapter 11. No one is expecting warm and fuzzy from F9 these days... but people are expecting that perhaps Frontier won't be out to screw them every chance they get.

You don't have to be unscrupulous to be profitable.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:57 am

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 43):
So, what? Because they went bankrupt they now have the right to screw their customers harder than they would have otherwise? I don't buy that Frontier acting like a stand-up, reputable company is what put them in Chapter 11.

Frontier hadn't make a full year profit since 2003 until last year - and, of course, some here dispute even that.

It amazes me - for example - that when this new ULCC Frontier strictly enforced strict carry on baggage rules, the message boards went crazy negative. When Air New Zealand did the same thing, most people cheered.

This present issue is unfortunate, but as noted above:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 33):
I've booked on Spirit, and it canceled a flight on me. Spirit just refunded me the fare, and the next day fare was a lot higher. No discount. They also didn't go out of their way to book me on a legacy carrier (e.g. US) at no charge.

mariner

[Edited 2013-09-09 22:21:01]
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opethfan
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:06 am

I love business hypocrisy: "You cancel on us, you still owe us some of the money. We cancel on you and you owe us some more money!"
 
F9Animal
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:44 am

Amazing how terrible F9 has become. Guess it is a blessing that they outsourced the outstations with subcontractors who don't care. F9 is no longer focused on providing good customer service. One week they inherit Midwest culture, tbe next they emulate Walmart. The airline is so bipolar anymore. This story is yet another of many black eyes. I know Cliff V. would never have agreed with how piss poor the customers are being treated. The most loyal flyers of Frontier have been slapped across the face! Very tragic to see what has become of this airline.

Consumers like consistency.... Frontier has been consistently starting routes, and cancelling it within a few months. Frontier has consistently made thousands of customers angry lately. Frontier has also consistently pooped on their customers lately. Makes you wonder if there is enough room for 3 ULCCs in this country?

[Edited 2013-09-09 22:50:01]
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GentFromAlaska
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:01 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 40):
While they can offer to either rebook the passenger for no extra charge or refund the fare, they are absolutely prohibited from charging extra to reroute the passengers.

  

I liken this to the increase of prices for building materials before the hurricane.

I'm surprised Kate Hani organization http://www.flyersrights.org/ is not onboard with this as of yet. Might it be an over zealous media.

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 37):
Bias? Or a customer requesting reasonable service?

Bias. Go back and reread what what the writer posted and what I quoted. If you want to narrow it down further the "die hard UA fan" the writer posted was the give away and leaves zero doubt in my mind. And that's fine.

Have you ever flown a airline who didn't offer reasonable service. With more than 200 coach flights under my belt. I can only think of one I would call unreasonable which was being stranded in ORD for two days during a snow event. And only because the airline employees were unresponsive to their pax and left to fend for themselves. I've ran across quite a few bad employees who didn't belong in the service industry.
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n7371f
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:04 pm

For those new to this long running thread, Frontier can do no wrong - it's always positive 
 
stlgph
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RE: Frontier Cancels ILG-IAH But Charges For A Reroute

Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:25 pm

Southwest seems to have a "relative" policy to this.
I was canceled Laguardia to Chicago Midway the Thursday prior to Memorial Day weekend. The next open seat after that flight was Monday morning.
Newark to Chicago Midway had open seats on both Friday & Saturday but they wanted $375 for the change.

Fast forward to Fourth of July weekend when there were rainstorm problems causing delays out of Newark. I wasn't going to get out in time to make it to Bloomington/Normal. I was re-routed out of Laguardia into O'Hare ... two entirely different airports ... without *any* problem, question, or hesitation on Delta's part.

Not the first time that's happened with Delta, either. Needless to say, they get most of my business.
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