cityairline
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Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:20 am

Seems like PAL has secured slots at Heathrow instead of Gatwick as previously reported.
How did they get their hands on those?
http://philippineairspace.blogspot.s...2013/09/pal-secures-lhr.html#links

Absolutely great if this will push through!

/Alex
I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
 
TC957
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:12 pm

They last served LHR with A340's, service was transferred from LGW. Hope they do indeed come back, presume they'll use 340's again, at least to start with.
 
Akiestar
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:16 pm

Didn't PR keep its LHR slots from when it was still flying there prior to the Asian financial crisis?

Quoting TC957 (Reply 1):
Hope they do indeed come back, presume they'll use 340's again, at least to start with.

Based on what I know, it's either the new A333, the A343 or the 77W which will be sent to Europe.

[Edited 2013-09-13 05:20:03]
 
TC957
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:24 pm

77W for AMS I'm sure, and the A343 to LHR, CDG or wherever else in Europe. Even the highest gross weight A333's won't do MNL to Europe non-stop.
 
behramjee
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:28 pm

these timings are very good and hopefully the B77W shall be operated.

good to see PAL making the $ 2.5 million investment into Heathrow and abandoning Gatwick.
 
hotplane
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:11 pm

Is one of the slots the RO Iasi flight?
?
 
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RWA380
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:20 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 4):
these timings are very good and hopefully the B77W shall be operated.

I agree, bad timing, you can do domestic connections to Europe maybe, but outside of that, only the return flight offers regional connections with out an overnight. I think they would be fools to fly anything but the 77W to LHR. I thought they were keeping the 343s just until cat 2 is lifted, then they can change aircraft types to their N American destinations.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
Devilfish
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:42 pm

Good that PR is returning to LHR after a long absence.....

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Quoting TC957 (Reply 3):
Even the highest gross weight A333's won't do MNL to Europe non-stop.

Those can do MNL-DXB-LHR.....

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=mnl-dxb-lhr&MS=wls&MR=900&MX=720x360&PM=*
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=mnl-dxb-lhr&MS=wls&MR=900&MX=720x360&PM=*

Quoting TC957 (Reply 3):
77W for AMS I'm sure, and the A343 to LHR, CDG or wherever else in Europe.

PR might even try hopscotching through Europe like they used to.....

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=mnl-dxb-fco-mxp-lhr-ams-fra-dmm-mnl&MS=wls&MR=900&MX=720x360&PM=*
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=mnl-dxb-f...-mnl&MS=wls&MR=900&MX=720x360&PM=*

.....but that is a very unappealing proposition just to fill the flight. 77W nonstop to MNL may be too big initially, so we could be looking at the A340s from Iberia.....

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=mnl-lhr&MS=wls&MR=900&MX=720x360&PM=*
http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=mnl-lhr&MS=wls&MR=900&MX=720x360&PM=*

Hmmn...seems like an ideal route for a B788.   


Quoting RWA380 (Reply 6):
Quoting behramjee (Reply 4):
these timings are very good and hopefully the B77W shall be operated.

I agree, bad timing

Come again?   
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
LatinPlane
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:16 pm

Does PR really need to be landing at LHR? They're not precisely going for business traffic, rather mostly targeting the Filipino community in England. That is a heavy investment, that is well worth it, but only if it's going to pay off.
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RWA380
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:39 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 7):
Come again?

I meant to say I don't agree, the timing on the return looks decent, but the morning departure from MNL, does not allow for connections other than some domestic markets. Unless this service is expected to be almost exclusively O/D.

Yeah that previous sytement didn't make much sense.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
ORDTLV2414
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:09 pm

How much more traffic can LHR handle??
 
cityairline
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:15 pm

Apparently the schedule is out and the flight is bookable!

The flight will be launched on November 4th and operate five times a week on the 77W!!!

PR720 MNL0805 – 1400LHR 77W 1
PR720 MNL0820 – 1415LHR 77W 47
PR720 MNL0830 – 1425LHR 77W 36

PR721 LHR1615 – 1250+1MNL 77W 1
PR721 LHR1715 – 1350+1MNL 77W 47
PR721 LHR1905 – 1540+1MNL 77W 36

After 15 years of absence PAL will finally return to Europe, and the Philippines will once again have a nonstop service to Europe.

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 8):
Does PR really need to be landing at LHR? They're not precisely going for business traffic, rather mostly targeting the Filipino community in England. That is a heavy investment, that is well worth it, but only if it's going to pay off.

While I agree that the Philippines has been (and to a big extent still is) a low yielding market with not much business traffic, one needs to keep in mind that the nation is currently the fastest growing major economy in all of Asia! So far this year it has been growing even faster than China, India and Indonesia. It is lately even called a new Asian tiger, or Tiger cub economy. So probably PAL is also looking forward and geering up for the future to come. ULH are often difficult to turn profitable, and BA would most certainly not be able to make this route lucrative, but PAL with its lower cost base and high-density configuration might just make it.

/Alex
I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
 
MHG
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:18 pm

Just checked fares (out nov 4 and back nov 10) for LHR-MNL-LHR and in "U"-class roundtrip fare is 983.75 GBP incl.tax.
Scheduled equipment is B 777 !
All flights are non-stop.

Great its finally going to happen ... !
Just waiting for FRA to pop up in their schedule, though.
I miss the sound of rolls royce darts and speys
 
TC957
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:24 pm

Yes indeed - showing on Galileo now too. From 4 Nov, so not that much lead-in time.
77W it is.
Welome back PR !
 
TC957
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:45 pm

I'm sure there will be consolidator and agent nett fare contracts on this route soon.
Garuda should be next for a Europe expansion. So much for those on this site that think the ME3 big boys have saturated the Europe - Philippine market, and that PR & GA could never make non-stops to Europe work now.
 
planesarecool
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:38 pm

Looks like the flight timings won't allow for connections to/from Australia, shame. New operators on the Kangaroo route tend to offer very competitive fares.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 14):
So much for those on this site that think the ME3 big boys have saturated the Europe - Philippine market, and that PR & GA could never make non-stops to Europe work now.

Well they haven't made it work yet. And Garuda have already postponed their planned operation to London.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 6):
you can do domestic connections to Europe maybe,

 
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:55 pm

I like flying PR, I have a number of sectors on them - one of the things that gets me on longer distance International flights is that I would like to be able to accrue them to an account affiliated with one of the alliances. I don't otherwise fly them often enough to build up many Mabuhay miles.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:18 pm

Quoting cityairline (Thread starter):
How did they get their hands on those?

Off-peak time slots such as those are available without any problem.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 3):
77W for AMS I'm sure,

AMS is supposed to be A343 in the beginning, 3-4 weekly flights starting in December, if everything goes as planned.

Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 10):
How much more traffic can LHR handle??

There's still enough room for expansion during off-peak gaps.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
Akiestar
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:07 am

Quoting cityairline (Reply 11):
PR720 MNL0805 – 1400LHR 77W 1
PR720 MNL0820 – 1415LHR 77W 47
PR720 MNL0830 – 1425LHR 77W 36

PR721 LHR1615 – 1250+1MNL 77W 1
PR721 LHR1715 – 1350+1MNL 77W 47
PR721 LHR1905 – 1540+1MNL 77W 36

While I will agree that there's not much feed that can go into these flights on the outbound save for early morning flights from CEB and DVO (and maybe some of the midnight flights from places like DPS, CGK and CAN), on the inbound it's the opposite: the flight is well-suited for onward connections to Southeast Asia and, on certain days, Australia.

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 17):
AMS is supposed to be A343 in the beginning, 3-4 weekly flights starting in December, if everything goes as planned.

PR seems to have run into a problem with AMS: they have the slots, but AMS has denied its request for the times it wants to schedule the flight.
 
airlinebuilder
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:21 am

CONGRATULATIONS TO PAL! Finally Asia's first is gaining its status back again, slowly but surely. It is rewarding to finally see it rehabilitating itself in so many ways, the airline that once help major airlines in Southeast Asia to set up the likes of Japan Airlines to name one.
 
dforce1
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:25 am

The original link from the Philippine Air Space blog indicates that PAL was able to obtain daily slots at Heathrow. Any speculation as to why they are only operating five times per week? Is it due to lack of equipment or are they being cautious? Also, does any have any idea which Terminal they might use?

It was actually declared last May 2012 by Transportation Secretary Mar Roxas that PAL had unused frequencies to London Heathrow and were simply waiting for the ban to be lifted. I am glad that they were able to get to Heathrow although that early departure from Manila does pose somewhat of a problem for those trying to connect from the provinces to the outbound flight. But at least it's a start!

http://www.philippineflightnetwork.c...ne-airlines-service-to-london.html
 
crownvic
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:26 am

Now all they need to do is get a on-line booking system that actually works and takes your credit card. I mean, come on already. I thought they finally resolved this problem, but sure enough, I tried booking travel with them today and it rejects every American credit card I have. This airline has got to get into the 21st Century. The funny thing is, every time this happens and you have to call them, they actually consistently claim their is nothing wrong with their system. OK, maybe once or twice you can believe it, but year after year, PAL's system has credit card problems and they feed you a bunch of BS nothing is wrong. Really? I much rather fly PAL than CEB, but in the end, I wound up booking CEB, an airline I hate giving one Peso to.

You would think that the investment from San Miguel would have fixed this issue, but it has not. I cannot understand how an airline buys 777-300ER's and Airbus' by the the dozens, but cannot fix the reservation system that fills the seats of those expensive planes. Total incompetence!
 
TC957
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:54 am

Use a reputable travel agent then, Crownvic. Your payment card will be processed by them instead and the booking will be made by them on a CRS system.
 
laca773
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:16 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 6):
I agree, bad timing, you can do domestic connections to Europe maybe, but outside of that, only the return flight offers regional connections with out an overnight. I think they would be fools to fly anything but the 77W to LHR. I thought they were keeping the 343s just until cat 2 is lifted, then they can change aircraft types to their N American destinations.

I was wondering about this too. They really need to get those 77Ws on their MNL-LAX-MNL flights. The A340s are too small for this market, and the 744s are far from efficient anymore.

I am happy PAL is sending their flagship a/c to LHR. I hope it works out for them.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:37 am

Nearly £3,000 for J class return...

I'll forego the non-stop and stick to Qatar thank you very much; and £550 cheaper too.

Can't see this lasting more than 12 months.

Rgds
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
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sassiciai
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:31 am

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 24):
I'll forego the non-stop and stick to Qatar thank you very much; and £550 cheaper too.

I think you are right (at least partially - I prefer AUH by far over DOH for a stopover, given I have Etihad lounge access, and DOH currently is a dump)

I checked with momondo.com for a Y-return LHR-MNL in early-Decemer, and there are lots of 1-stop options cheaper than PR. I didnt go beyond the results page of momondo, so perhaps some of the quoted fares are subject some additional but minor credit card processing fees

Cheapest was CA at 688eur, others include EK (815), QR (757), EY (722), CZ, and BA(793). PR came in at 896eur and obviously scores on the overall journey time. I can imagine that a Filipina maid/nurse looking to fly home for a Christmas break will have a dilemma here - cheapest or "own airline"!
 
LondonCity
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:37 am

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 24):
Nearly £3,000 for J class return...
I'll forego the non-stop and stick to Qatar thank you very much; and £550 cheaper too.
Can't see this lasting more than 12 months.

The fact is that, as was the case when it last served Europe, PAL will sell its best fares through the travel trade and not direct to the public. PAL will need travel agents to fill the seats because its lead-in time is so short and, after an absence of 15 years, it has no market awareness with the general travelling public.
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:18 pm

Quoting cityairline (Reply 11):
ULH are often difficult to turn profitable, and BA would most certainly not be able to make this route lucrative, but PAL with its lower cost base and high-density configuration might just make it.

So based on that fact, could we see some sort of cooperation between BA and PR or would BA just continue handing MNL bound pax off to CX?
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
Devilfish
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:07 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 6):
I think they would be fools to fly anything but the 77W to LHR.

Would you still say this if they flew the HGW A333 on a one-stopper to LHR like the GC route in #7?

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 9):
but the morning departure from MNL, does not allow for connections other than some domestic markets. Unless this service is expected to be almost exclusively O/D.

PR was probably constrained by the slots available to them.

Quoting MHG (Reply 12):
Just waiting for FRA to pop up in their schedule, though.

Any information on why FRA is lagging?

Quoting planesarecool (Reply 15):
Looks like the flight timings won't allow for connections to/from Australia, shame.

The body deserves a break after being cooped up in a plane for 12.5 hours. Relax and share a bit of those sterlings in MNL...it's more fun    !


Quoting dforce1 (Reply 20):
Any speculation as to why they are only operating five times per week? Is it due to lack of equipment or are they being cautious?

Could be both.

Quoting dforce1 (Reply 20):
Also, does any have any idea which Terminal they might use?

The linked blog at the thread's start says Terminal 4.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 23):
They really need to get those 77Ws on their MNL-LAX-MNL flights.

I think the evaluators are looking into it as we speak.

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 24):
Nearly £3,000 for J class return...

I'll forego the non-stop and stick to Qatar thank you very much; and £550 cheaper too.

Second comment following the linked blog of the OP says 1,828 sterling for MNL-LHR-MNL in J @ amadeus.net.

Quoting sassiciaiReply 25):
PR came in at 896eur and obviously scores on the overall journey time. I can imagine that a Filipina maid/nurse looking to fly home for a Christmas break will have a dilemma here - cheapest or "own airline"![/quote].

I think you've given the answer...they wouldn't want to be wasting their precious vacation time in some lonely terminal away from home. Speed, convenience plus their "kababayan's" warmth...no contest.

[quote=LondonCity,reply=26] PAL will need travel agents to fill the seats because its lead-in time is so short and, after an absence of 15 years, it has no market awareness with the general travelling public.

This is now the instantaneous connection age...there was no Facebook or Twitter then...  
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
MHG
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:46 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 28):
Any information on why FRA is lagging?

No real/official info ...
I rather have an "educated guess".
The slot coordination for FRA has probably not yielded a suitable slot for them yet.
FRA is nearly as difficult as LHR in this regard.
I miss the sound of rolls royce darts and speys
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:39 am

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 17):
Off-peak time slots such as those are available without any problem.
Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 17):
There's still enough room for expansion during off-peak gaps.

You may want to review that statement. These slots were just as hard to obtain as any others. Apart from a couple of slots here and there on real off peak times such as Saturday late afternoon, there is nothing to be had at Heathrow. These PR slots are not new, the must have come from somewhere.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:42 am

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 25):
Cheapest was CA at 688eur, others include EK (815), QR (757), EY (722), CZ, and BA(793). PR came in at 896eur and obviously scores on the overall journey time. I can imagine that a Filipina maid/nurse looking to fly home for a Christmas break will have a dilemma here - cheapest or "own airline"!

I would also add the convenience of connecting with EK/EY/QR. There are multiple daily flights with any of those carriers from London, and multiple daily flights from DXB/DOH/AUH to the Philippines, so you can basically tailor your date and time schedule to your needs, instead of a fixed 5-weekly schedule from LON. Not to mention the number of flights of those carriers from other British cities. And EK and QR are starting soon flights to Clark, which may be more convenient for some of those OFW than MNL.

I don't think this PR flight will last for long either.
 
nzrich
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:31 am

Quoting crownvic (Reply 21):

Now all they need to do is get a on-line booking system that actually works and takes your credit card. I mean, come on already. I thought they finally resolved this problem, but sure enough, I tried booking travel with them today and it rejects every American credit card I have. This airline has got to get into the 21st Century. The funny thing is, every time this happens and you have to call them, they actually consistently claim their is nothing wrong with their system. OK, maybe once or twice you can believe it, but year after year, PAL's system has credit card problems and they feed you a bunch of BS nothing is wrong. Really? I much rather fly PAL than CEB, but in the end, I wound up booking CEB, an airline I hate giving one Peso to.

You would think that the investment from San Miguel would have fixed this issue, but it has not. I cannot understand how an airline buys 777-300ER's and Airbus' by the the dozens, but cannot fix the reservation system that fills the seats of those expensive planes. Total incompetence!

Yes I know the feeling trying to buy an airline ticket in the us is a nightmare also if that airline does not serve the country that you live in . But they take the card over the phone . Only a few seem to take cards from all over the world regarless if they serve your country or not . So it is not just a PAL problem .
"Pride of the pacific"
 
MHG
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:52 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 31):
I don't think this PR flight will last for long either.

It will depend on whether they are able to charge a certain premium for offering a non-stop service as well as a taking away some connex traffic (e.g. to Oz or a few other asian destinations) from competition.
If they offer competitive through fares to provincial airports they will also boost loads as quite some passengers from abroad choose other airlines and self connect to Cebu Pacific on the domestic sectors despite the hassle connected with terminal transfer and other LCC-related issues !

But with NAIA being congested as it is for some time PR will have a tough job to make MNL a viable transit option for travellers.

I know quite a number of people who choose CX and SQ/MI to avoid transiting in MNL.
And these people usually pay a considerable premium for the convenience of through checking luggage to CEB/DVO/CRK and having all sectors booked on a single ticket !

Just go figure why CX in particular is so strong in CEB ...
They do not generate the high fares (and volume) from OFW´s working in HKG to warrant daily B777/B744/A340 flights

If PR (and NAIA) get it right they will bite a significant piece off CX´s piece of the cake ...

[Edited 2013-09-15 06:04:23]
I miss the sound of rolls royce darts and speys
 
YVRSpeedBird
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:30 am

This is great news as I always believed that PAL should return to Europe, albeit a conservative, calculated expansion. LHR is a good first step as the UK is the largest inbound market to the Philippines, and hosts a large Filipino population. Having said that, it's not going to be a walk in the park for them, and I could think of a few "problems" they will encounter.

Some of my thoughts:

-The early departure in Manila does not provide connections for those flying from other parts of the country. A lot of overseas Filipinos, those in the UK included, do not just come from Manila or Luzon. Only 1 Cebu flight will have connectivity. Coming from somewhere else will entail an overnight in Manila. This will be the advantage of the Gulf carriers & CX, SQ, TG, MH, KL, etc... who all have afternoon-evening departures from Manila. The inconvenience of changing terminals is nothing compared to the cost & hassle of having to overnight in Manila.

-The 77W is too big of a plane for the market if they just rely on O&D. PR does not have feed in LHR, just like MNL on the outbound flight as mentioned above. And let's face it, PR will never be a player on LHR-Australia/SEAsia. MNL is not a connecting hub, & this is the domain of the stronger carriers of the respective countries. What I see here is while the Philippines remains a FAA Cat 2 country, the 77Ws will be placed somewhere until they are allowed to serve LAX/SFO with those planes. PR's hands are tied when it comes to the right aircraft size - MNL/LHR would be perfect for the A340, but the cost of operating that plane on this stage length may be prohibitive. They haven't decided on a replacement for this aircraft yet, but I think the 787-8, although smaller, would be perfect because from this point forward every new PR service would be an experiment with no guarantee for success. I've always said it, and I'll say it again - any city in the world that needs/wants service to Manila is already well-served via connections on other carriers. PR must offer something other than just price because no amount of "non-stop convenience" will beat the frequency, service, price, etc... of the EK's, QR's, SQ's, CX's of the world.

There is room for PR to enter MNL-Europe, but there will be headwinds (better slot times for connections in Manila, etc.) and like I said, they need to acquire the right aircraft. And PR's management must understand that any new service will take a while to mature and develop. I just hope they don't give up easily if they don't see the fast, early returns like they did with YYZ, PER, DEL - and now JED too before the service has even started. The airline business is long-term, and short-term flip-flopping does not help them.
 
Devilfish
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:15 am

Quoting MHG (Reply 33):
It will depend on whether they are able to charge a certain premium for offering a non-stop service as well as a taking away some connex traffic (e.g. to Oz or a few other asian destinations) from competition.
If they offer competitive through fares to provincial airports they will also boost loads as quite some passengers from abroad choose other airlines and self connect to Cebu Pacific on the domestic sectors despite the hassle connected with terminal transfer and other LCC-related issues !

[.....]

I know quite a number of people who choose CX and SQ/MI to avoid transiting in MNL.
And these people usually pay a considerable premium for the convenience of through checking luggage to CEB/DVO/CRK and having all sectors booked on a single ticket !

The fight is on...    ...

http://philippineairspace.blogspot.s...loys-counter-offensive-to-lhr.html

Quote:
" In a bid to push Philippine Airlines(PAL) out of the London - Manila market, the Hong Kong-based carrier is starting a fare war against the flag carrier to secure its market dominance in the Philippines.

The United Kingdom (UK) is the biggest source of tourists arrivals from the European Union. Last year, more than 113,000 British tourists were recorded other than the visiting 250,000 overseas Filipinos.

Data from the Immigration Department discloses Cathay Pacific(CX) as the airline of choice for flights to London holding 45% of the London-Manila traffic, while the big three Middle East carriers accounts for the next 40%.

There are roughly 1000 passengers a day departing or arriving in Manila from the UK majority of whom are Overseas Filipinos, the statistics showed."


Quoting MHG (Reply 33):

But with NAIA being congested as it is for some time PR will have a tough job to make MNL a viable transit option for travellers.

[.....]

If PR (and NAIA) get it right they will bite a significant piece off CX´s piece of the cake ...

They're trying these to address those issues.....

http://business.inquirer.net/143037/...n-on-new-terminal-at-clark-airport

http://business.inquirer.net/137791/...or-to-rehabilitate-naia-terminal-3


Hopefully, everything will have been in place and NAIA's NAVAIDs modernization is fully functioning by that time to offset the limitations of the airport's single runway    .


Quoting YVRSpeedBird (Reply 34):
-The 77W is too big of a plane for the market if they just rely on O&D.

My comment in #7 notwithstanding, they may get very good load factors during the holidays and until the novelty wears off. For the long stretch, I agree.

Quoting YVRSpeedBird (Reply 34):
MNL/LHR would be perfect for the A340, but the cost of operating that plane on this stage length may be prohibitive. They haven't decided on a replacement for this aircraft yet, but I think the 787-8, although smaller, would be perfect

Or the 789 to ease pricing pressure and for more flexibility.

Quoting YVRSpeedBird (Reply 34):
I just hope they don't give up easily if they don't see the fast, early returns like they did with PER, DEL - and now JED too before the service has even started. The airline business is long-term, and short-term flip-flopping does not help them.

And this is where they're most vulnerable...PR doesn't have very deep pockets and strong government support like their competitors.

[Edited 2013-09-16 04:22:55]
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:33 am

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 28):
The body deserves a break after being cooped up in a plane for 12.5 hours. Relax and share a bit of those sterlings in MNL...it's more fun

And USU/MPH/CEB only 1h away. I agree. it's better to stop and go for a snorkel.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
MHG
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:49 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 35):
The fight is on... ...

Well, other than in this article I haven´t seen any signs of a fare war.
Makes me wonder what´s the source ???
When checking fares I discovered CX so far has not yet tried to undercut PR on the LON market ...
Maybe someone at CX has publicly threatened to make a fare war  
But it seems logical as CX will loose passengers to PR as CX had almost a monopoly by offering the fastest connection between Europe and the Philippines.
A major part of loads between HKG and MNL/CEB is generated from european passengers.
So, they cannot sit and wait ...
I miss the sound of rolls royce darts and speys
 
crownvic
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:14 am

Quoting TC957 (Reply 22):
Use a reputable travel agent then, Crownvic. Your payment card will be processed by them instead and the booking will be made by them on a CRS system.

I just think that I should not have to do that. If I can book CEB, Zest and Tiger from the U.S., why can't I book PAL? So how do you establish a reputable travel agent overseas, if I were to take your advice? I am sure there are plenty in the Philippines, but do you have one you recommend?

Quoting nzrich (Reply 32):

Yes I know the feeling trying to buy an airline ticket in the us is a nightmare also if that airline does not serve the country that you live in . But they take the card over the phone . Only a few seem to take cards from all over the world regarless if they serve your country or not . So it is not just a PAL problem .

Please read my response above. I generally have fairly good results booking with foreign carriers, especially the major ones. PAL is the oldest Asian trans-Pacific airline and should be more on the ball than this. Personally, I see no excuse for this, especially if I am able to book on other Philippines carriers.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:39 am

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 28):
but the morning departure from MNL, does not allow for connections other than some domestic markets. Unless this service is expected to be almost exclusively O/D.
Quoting Devilfish (Reply 28):
Would you still say this if they flew the HGW A333 on a one-stopper to LHR like the GC route in #7?

Yes, and I guess PR is jumping in with both feet. They will not capture market share with a one stop flight, then people would stick with CX. The one thing PR has is non-stop, and the 77W is the best plane, currently in the PR fleet to compete with the other bigger carriers. Lets not forget Philippinos love to bring boxes of goods when visiting home, on top of that, cargo may help pay for the gas on those flights until passenger counts rise. If PR can get a later flight time out of MNL by two hours, they could feed connections from GUM/SE Asia/Australia, that may add 30-50 more people a day.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
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sassiciai
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:02 am

Quoting crownvic (Reply 38):
So how do you establish a reputable travel agent overseas, if I were to take your advice? I am sure there are plenty in the Philippines, but do you have one you recommend?

There are loads of on-line booking companies on the Net. Just type "cheap flights" into Google and you'll be offered thousands.

Or use www.momondo.com - it doesn't search airline sites, it searches all the other on-line booking sites. I have used momondo very often - and it will more often than not end up with a cheaper fare than available direct on the airline's own site. Via momondo, I have booked with a variety of on-line bookers, and never had any problems to date

Particularly on 1 or more - stop journeys, it will often propose some very surprising offers that you could not imagine! I have 0 experience of it in the USA!
 
YVRSpeedBird
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:00 am

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 35):
And this is where they're most vulnerable...PR doesn't have very deep pockets and strong government support like their competitors.

Actually they have very deep pockets now thanks to San Miguel's investment. But do they have the competent management to match? It remains to be seen... If you look at the resume's of their top executives, none of these people have professional, international airline experience. I hope they don't burn San Miguel's coffers to the ground...
 
stlgph
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:54 pm

Quoting YVRSpeedBird (Reply 34):

This is great news as I always believed that PAL should return to Europe, albeit a conservative, calculated expansion. LHR is a good first step as the UK is the largest inbound market to the Philippines, and hosts a large Filipino population.

Bloomberg reports Ramon Ang said additional cities are planned - they hope to eventually return to 5 cities including Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Devilfish
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:03 am

Quoting MHG (Reply 33):
I know quite a number of people who choose CX and SQ/MI to avoid transiting in MNL.

Maybe this could go some way in convincing them to spend a little more time in MNL...   ...

http://philippineairspace.blogspot.s...al-unveils-new-mabuhay-lounge.html

.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7421/9770621846_79f1757419.jpg

.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2839/9770621626_928e9a7400.jpg

http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/ind...s/19504-pal-has-new-mabuhay-lounge

Quoting YVRSpeedBird (Reply 41):
Actually they have very deep pockets now thanks to San Miguel's investment.

SMC may have deep pockets...but very deep on a par with the competition?            

Quoting YVRSpeedBird (Reply 41):
But do they have the competent management to match? It remains to be seen... If you look at the resume's of their top executives, none of these people have professional, international airline experience.

I'm beginning to think they're on the right track with this move.....

http://philippineairspace.blogspot.s...ers-aircraft-leasing-business.html

Quote:
" Southeast Asia's largest conglomerate San Miguel Corporation opens an off-shore aircraft-leasing company to support the long haul fleet requirement of Philippine Airlines.

San Miguel Leasing plans to put up in its book an aircraft order for four Boeing 777-300ER, ten 777-900s and ten Airbus A350-900's aircraft from both manufacturers.

SMC President Ramon S. Ang said the Cayman-based company has market capitalization of 1 billion US dollars.

Initial investments of $500 million was put up by SMC while the another $500 will come from the undisclosed buyer of Lucio Tan's 51 percent stake at Philippine Airlines.

SMC admitted earlier that they are in talks with Japan's largest carrier, All Nippon Airways, for a 40% stake. Japanese Company, like Kirin Brewery owns substantial share of SMC shares. The remaining PAL shares is expected to be offered to the stock market."


http://www.philstar.com/business/201...rms-500-m-aircraft-leasing-company

Could those four 77Ws be new - from the UFOs discussed in another thread...and on top of their previous six?  .

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5453/9779856013_93dfa116b3_z.jpg


A bit disappointing that the B789 is not included in the mix...   .




[Edited 2013-09-17 18:46:59]
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:38 am

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 43):
SMC admitted earlier that they are in talks with Japan's largest carrier, All Nippon Airways, for a 40% stake.

I would love it if they became a Star Alliance member as well, as a result of the shareholding. That would suit me down to the ground.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:49 am

Let's see how long this lasts....

how many changes have there been with PAL just in the last 6 months.

Toronto starts, then is pulled.
Perth services last 3 months.
Jeddah is on, then off.
Dubai and adu dhabi announced as daily, then go back to 5pw.
delhi via BKK pulled.


while these might be great long term strategies, in seems PAL is hell bent on burning cash by not given flights at least a 4-6 month selling window, nor prepared to take the first year start up losses.

let's see what happen.
 
Akiestar
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:42 am

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 45):
Toronto starts, then is pulled.

YYZ was not pulled and is still flying.

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 45):
Jeddah is on, then off.

According to what I've read in local forums, this is due to the Philippines-Saudi Arabia bilateral, which imposes aircraft restrictions (only PR A330s may fly to Saudi Arabia, and I believe there are further restrictions as to what specific A330s may be used). There's a belief that Saudi Arabia's restrictions are in place to protect SV, which benefits immensely from the one million Filipinos who live there and have to shuttle back and forth between the two countries.

As far as I know though, JED is still well on the table.

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 45):
Dubai and adu dhabi announced as daily, then go back to 5pw.

This is due to aircraft availability, and frequencies should go to daily as more of PR's new A330s arrive.

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 45):
delhi via BKK pulled.

They did say this was due to poor yields. At least they were forthright about it.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:23 am

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 46):
They did say this was due to poor yields. At least they were forthright about it.

And to be fair, it is the indian market. It's notoriously low yielding for many airlines.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:50 am

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 46):
This is due to aircraft availability, and frequencies should go to daily as more of PR's new A330s arrive.
Quoting Akiestar (Reply 46):
this is due to the Philippines-Saudi Arabia bilateral, which imposes aircraft restrictions (only PR A330s may fly to Saudi Arabia, and I believe there are further restrictions as to what specific A330s may be used).
Quoting Akiestar (Reply 46):
They did say this was due to poor yields.

so what you can confirm is that in all cases this has been due to PAL's poor decision making or research.
none of the above should have occurred if they did their research.

some airlines sometimes get it wrong, others it seems get it wrong all too often.
 
YVRSpeedBird
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RE: Philippine Airlines Launching LHR Instead Of LGW?

Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:37 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 48):
so what you can confirm is that in all cases this has been due to PAL's poor decision making or research.
none of the above should have occurred if they did their research.

some airlines sometimes get it wrong, others it seems get it wrong all too often.

And that's why I'll stand by my observation that PAL management is incompetent! When the nonstop service to YYZ was discontinued abruptly (barely 2 months since launch) in favour of a YVR stop, it was rumoured that PAL did not have rights to overfly certain airspace, which made the long polar route not viable. I'm sorry, but shouldn't they have done their research before launching such a flight? Anyway, I don't buy their sorry excuse because let's face it - those wanting to fly YYZ-MNL have a choice between CX, KE, AC, DL & EK. I've flown PR 118/119 twice, both times getting on/off in YVR, and the YYZ tag-on had less than 100 pax. So there you have it - despite it's large Filipino population, YYZ is already well served by other carriers..... and the same story goes for LHR and every other European destination they intend to fly to. I am not saying that their expansion will not work - because PR has always had success serving a niche which is O&D traffic to/from Manila (look at their success in SFO & LAX). But they will need the right aircraft, time slots (for domestic connections within the Philippines), pricing, marketing & perseverance (PER anyone?).