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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:38 pm

Lufthansa will split an order for about 50 wide-body aircraft between Airbus and Boeing, a purchase with a list value of at least $14 billion, people with knowledge of the matter said.

The twin-engine jets will be Boeing’s new 777-9X, which is due to fly by decade’s end, and Airbus’s A350-900, said two of the people, who asked not to be identified because the details aren’t yet public. An announcement may come as soon as next week, the people said.

Story:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...ing-airbus-split-on-jet-order.html

[Edited 2013-09-13 10:39:41]
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FlyingAY
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:46 pm

Was the 787 too small for LH? The 787-10 that was large enough maybe had too short range? What does this mean when it comes to the 747-8i fleet? Interesting order and congrats to all parties!
 
jfk777
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:49 pm

Great news for Boeing to have Luftnansa as the 777-9X launch customer. This time hopefully airlines will buy the plane since the 747-8 has been a dog.
 
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:50 pm

Another carrier splits their A/C order between the two giant aircraft companies. It just goes to show, that each plane manufacturer does has something unique to bring to the table. It seems to be the trend lately, taking a bit of A & a bit of B.
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ap305
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:52 pm

After moaning about excessive aircraft range capability, LH is going to buy the 2 most capable aircraft in their respective classes. I always thought this order will split but for the a350-1000 and the 787-10.
 
chiad
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:06 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
Lufthansa will split an order for about 50 wide-body aircraft between Airbus and Boeing

Great news!
I find it pleasing when a major order is split and both manufactures get rewarded for the sales efforts.
I am looking forward to the actual numbers involved.
 
wingman
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:06 pm

"Boeing jets will make up the majority of the order". If that's true then I will be stunned. I never thought I'd see the day come to be honest.
 
holzmann
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:15 pm

Wow. What breaking news!

Honored just to post in this thread  
 
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sassiciai
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:23 pm

Is this 100% credible and accurate?

Has that fat lady already sung? If so, what did she sing?   

Who would bet his house on this?
 
iahmark
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:25 pm

Quoting wingman (Reply 6):
"Boeing jets will make up the majority of the order". If that's true then I will be stunned. I never thought I'd see the day come to be honest.

If this is true my best guess would be 30 for the 777X with the remaining 20 for the A350-1000.
 
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Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:27 pm

Seems like Luftftansa is whittling down the aircraft types. What present aircraft will this order replace?
 
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:29 pm

I still am surprised that after commenting that the manufacturers are making their planes to suit the ME carriers; i.e. much more range than the European carriers need, LH ignores the plane that seems to fit their bill perfectly (the 7810) and buys the much longer ranged competitor from Airbus. But who said anyone had to be logical or consistent? And what is the advantage of the A359 over the 7810, except for more range?
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ferpe
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:29 pm

If this is true (and there is reason to believe it is) it means there will be a tit for tat division of larger aircraft.

Below 300 seats Boeing 787, between 300-400 Aibus 350, between 400-500 Boeing 779 and then the A380 beyound 500. Amazing how they have divided the world of long-haul aviation  Wow! . It will be no longer boring 333 below 330 pax and 777 beyond until you hit the 380. An almost perfect division of the market, perhaps DOJ want to block the division  Wow! .

There will be severe fighting in every segment border and I am sure Airbus is starting to look at a -1100 
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:36 pm

G'day

If true I am surprised.

Then again LH always stated they do not want to rely on a single supplier.

They also have the dilemma with the 20 options for the 747-8. Selecting the 777-9 gives them a more capable aircraft and being the / a launch customer they must have gotten an excellent deal on those while resolving the issue with the 747-8 options.

The 350-900 being the given replacement for the 340-300 is no surprise.

So far so good. But the 50 aircraft order talked about will by no means cover all the replacement for the existing A330-300 / A340-300, 340-600 and B747-400 fleet. Having chosen the A 350 as being part of their fleet LH will have the option for any model of the series, so surely some of the A340-600 replacements will be A350-1000's while others will be replaced with 777-9's. Same at the upper end where some more B747-400's will be replaced with A380's.

Were they not going to order some more of those earlier this year? Maybe another part of the whole deal, we will see when it gets officially announced.  


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ap305
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:36 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 12):

There will be severe fighting in every segment border and I am sure Airbus is starting to look at a -1100

Why not a a360?. The technology is there- simply stick an enlarged a350 wing onto a new wider tube and get RR to go ahead with the RB3025 or whatever they were offering for the 777ng.

[Edited 2013-09-13 11:38:28]
 
Sooner787
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Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:50 pm

Looking forward to seeing A359's at DFW in the future   
 
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:56 pm

I'm also a bit surprised by them taking the very long range choices.

Also interesting to note that this is a back-door announcement order for the 777-9, right?

Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 13):
They also have the dilemma with the 20 options for the 747-8. Selecting the 777-9 gives them a more capable aircraft and being the / a launch customer they must have gotten an excellent deal on those while resolving the issue with the 747-8 options.

There really should be no issue with resolving options. After all, they are just options, which cost little or nothing to the customer to have.
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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:58 pm

Quoting FlyingAY (Reply 1):
Was the 787 too small for LH? The 787-10 that was large enough maybe had too short range? What does this mean when it comes to the 747-8i fleet? Interesting order and congrats to all parties!

I too expected the 787-10 to be part of the deal. Perhaps the payload / range was just a bit too short for LH needs.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
Great news for Boeing to have Luftnansa as the 777-9X launch customer. This time hopefully airlines will buy the plane since the 747-8 has been a dog.

We don't know yet if Lufthansa will become the launch customer of the type. This will depend on when they will take first deliveries.

I think this honor will go to Emirates.

Quoting ap305 (Reply 4):
After moaning about excessive aircraft range capability, LH is going to buy the 2 most capable aircraft in their respective classes. I always thought this order will split but for the a350-1000 and the 787-10.

Ironic, isn't?

Quoting wingman (Reply 6):
"Boeing jets will make up the majority of the order". If that's true then I will be stunned. I never thought I'd see the day come to be honest.

Perhaps the majority of the order in terms of value (the 777-9 is more expensive).

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 11):
I still am surprised that after commenting that the manufacturers are making their planes to suit the ME carriers; i.e. much more range than the European carriers need, LH ignores the plane that seems to fit their bill perfectly (the 7810) and buys the much longer ranged competitor from Airbus. But who said anyone had to be logical or consistent? And what is the advantage of the A359 over the 7810, except for more range?

Yes I'm surprised too.

The A359 has more range thus can fly further at max payload. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that Lufthansa carries a lot of cargo in the belly of their airplanes. I don't know.

Quoting william (Reply 10):
Seems like Luftftansa is whittling down the aircraft types. What present aircraft will this order replace?

Both A340-300 and A340-600 will be replaced with this order.

Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 13):
So far so good. But the 50 aircraft order talked about will by no means cover all the replacement for the existing A330-300 / A340-300, 340-600 and B747-400 fleet. Having chosen the A 350 as being part of their fleet LH will have the option for any model of the series, so surely some of the A340-600 replacements will be A350-1000's while others will be replaced with 777-9's. Same at the upper end where some more B747-400's will be replaced with A380's.

The last 20 744 aircraft can be replaced with the remainder 9 A380 and 10 748i aircraft on order.
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:09 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
Lufthansa will split an order for about 50 wide-body aircraft between Airbus and Boeing

It's also a split for the engine makers too - Rolls for the A350 and GE for the 777X.

The article mentions this order was previously said to be "winner-take-all" contest.

That also makes it harder to comprehend the split.
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Prost
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:16 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 18):
The article mentions this order was previously said to be "winner-take-all" contest.

The winner is Lufthansa. And they're taking it all!
 
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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:24 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 18):
It's also a split for the engine makers too - Rolls for the A350 and GE for the 777X.

Indeed.

The guys at Lufthansa Technik should get excited, doing maintenance on those folding wing tips.

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 8):
Is this 100% credible and accurate?

We have to wait until next week, but such leaks by people "familiar with the matter" turns in 99% of the cases out to be true.

Quoting Prost (Reply 19):
The winner is Lufthansa. And they're taking it all!

  
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phxa340
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:26 pm

I am stunned. I would love to know what kind of numbers Boeing is showing to LH for th 779. Not that I don't believe Boeing - it's just I guess the 779 has a more compelling business case than some members have presented on here. Either way , I love split orders so congrats to Boeing and Airbus.
 
Prost
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:29 pm

Honestly, with the capabilities that the 777-9 is professed to have, it should be similar to flying a combi aircraft was 25 years ago.
 
Burkhard
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:34 pm

If this means no more 748I orders than this is a black friday for aviation.
 
lhrnue
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:36 pm

Is LH already replacing the 747-8i with the 777-9X?
 
a380900
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:36 pm

Quoting Prost (Reply 19):
We have to wait until next week, but such leaks by people "familiar with the matter" turns in 99% of the cases out to be true.

It certainly feels that way. Now another question is the purpose of these leaks... Why do they feel the need to tell that to the press? Why not wait the official announcement? I'm not quite sure why we have these leaks so often.
 
Prost
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Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:41 pm

Possibly strategic? Seeing as it was supposed to be "winner takes all" maybe this leak was released to see if either A or B can sharpen their pencils and do whatever is necessary to get the whole enchilada.
 
flyinggoat
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:42 pm

Well, I'm surprised. I was expecting the 787-10 to be part of the order.

I'm looking forward to seeing the 777-9X and A359 in LH colors!
 
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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:42 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 23):
If this means no more 748I orders than this is a black friday for aviation.

Well, it's Friday the 13th    Boeing had a few 748i campaigns running, including LH, but it seems they go for the 777 instead.
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SpaceshipDC10
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:51 pm

Quoting lhrnue (Reply 24):
Is LH already replacing the 747-8i with the 777-9X?

Not just yet. Lufthansa Considers Early 747-400 Replacement (by KarelXWB Jun 3 2013 in Civil Aviation)
 
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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:53 pm

Quoting lhrnue (Reply 24):
Is LH already replacing the 747-8i with the 777-9X?

No no, certainly not. This order is for A340 replacement only.

Lufthansa future long-haul fleet will consist of the following aircraft:

> A330
> A359 (replacing A343)
> B779 (replacing A346)
> B748 (replacing B744)
> A388 (replacing B744)

[Edited 2013-09-13 12:53:53]
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AA777223
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:53 pm

An LH 777. Now Jesus can return.
A318/19/20/21, A300, A332/3, A343/6, A388, L1011, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80, B722, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9, B743/4/4M, B752/3, B762/3/4, B772/E/W, B788/9, F-100, CRJ-200/700/900, ERJ-135/145/175, DH-8, ATR-72, DO-328, BAE-146
 
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:04 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 31):
An LH 777. Now Jesus can return.

But the saga continues: the whole world is buying 787s except LH   
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Sooner787
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:13 pm

As a sidenote, I wonder if the future AF1 jet will be either a B777-8 or B777-9?

As much as I love the 748's, The writing's on the wall for those birds.
 
PanAm1971
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:19 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 33):
As much as I love the 748's, The writing's on the wall for those birds.

Not quite yet. If we're still sitting here a year from now without any more orders for the 748i... then yes. We'll see.
 
ZEDZAG
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:20 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 32):
But the saga continues: the whole world is buying 787s except LH

And EK...    

Hypothetically, if this order really happens, wouldnt there be too much of a gap between two planes?

[Edited 2013-09-13 13:26:32]
 
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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:21 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 33):
I wonder if the future AF1 jet will be either a B777-8 or B777-9?

Leeham has an article about this subject.

http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2013...en-or-can-777-300er-become-af-one/
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:23 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 32):
But the saga continues: the whole world is buying 787s except LH

They should buy in terms of passenger comfort the other way, even more the 787 is so much beatiful then the ugly 777 and would look amazing in LH colors.

I think (at the moment)the only think what is important to LH is capacity.  
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airbazar
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:32 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 11):
And what is the advantage of the A359 over the 7810, except for more range?

I think it is a pretty negative endorsement of the 787 program in general. LH are a very conservative airline and like things to be a certain way. To me this tells me that they are no happy with what they've seen of the 787 (either the plane or the program), and want nothing to do with it. Also they may get A359's a lot sooner than the 7810, if that's important to them.
 
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:35 pm

Quoting autothrust (Reply 37):
I think (at the moment)the only think what is important to LH is capacity.

Well yes, of course. Lufthansa's now long-haul products (new J seats, Y+) will require more space, and the airline also wants room for growth.
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:36 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 33):
As much as I love the 748's, The writing's on the wall for those birds.

I agree. LH is the largest 748 operator yet they opt for a new 777-9X fleet instead of expanding their 748 fleet. It basically means there is no business case for 748 passenger version. It is an even higher barrier for an operator not having 748s in their fleet to order 748s.
 
flyinggoat
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:36 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 32):
But the saga continues: the whole world is buying 787s except LH

lol, indeed. However, if your previous post is correct, and this is just a A340 replacement order, than perhaps there is still an eventual chance for a 787-9 or -10 order to replace the A330.
 
kaitak744
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:38 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 30):
> A330
> A359 (replacing A343)
> B779 (replacing A346)
> B748 (replacing B744)
> A388 (replacing B744)

The 777-9X is about the same passenger capacity as the 747-400. I would be a significant upguage over the A340-600.
In general, their fleet is going for an overall upguage.

This also spells the end of any more LH 747-8is.
 
rj777
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:38 pm

So, the 777s are for Lufthansa themselves and not Swiss?
 
LH506
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:46 pm

Quoting FlyingGoat (Reply 41):
lol, indeed. However, if your previous post is correct, and this is just a A340 replacement order, than perhaps there is still an eventual chance for a 787-9 or -10 order to replace the A330.



No way. I expect the order to be 30+30 779X and 20+40 359. This is to replace around 20 343, 12 747 and the first trench of the 346.

Follow up order will be to replace 19 (18+1) 333 with the 359 and 20 748I with the 779X. Put in some more 388s and by 2025 the fleet will look like this

60 359
60 7779X
25 388
NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 788 300B2 300B4 345 359 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
jfk777
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:48 pm

Quoting rj777 (Reply 43):
So, the 777s are for Lufthansa themselves and not Swiss?

there is an order for 6 777-300ERfor SWISS placed about 6 months ago.
 
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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:51 pm

Quoting FlyingGoat (Reply 41):
than perhaps there is still an eventual chance for a 787-9 or -10 order to replace the A330.

Perhaps, but it might take a while because many of those A330s are quite new and are here to stay for 20 years.

More likely Lufthansa Group will order 787s for SN or OS first.

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 42):
The 777-9X is about the same passenger capacity as the 747-400. I would be a significant upguage over the A340-600.
In general, their fleet is going for an overall upguage.

In the previous thread, people calculated 330 to 350 seats in a new, updated LH cabin configuration inside the 777-9. That's an increase of 24 to 44 seats over the A346, which sounds fair if you're looking at growth.
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rj777
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:53 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 45):
Quoting rj777 (Reply 43):
So, the 777s are for Lufthansa themselves and not Swiss?

there is an order for 6 777-300ERfor SWISS placed about 6 months ago.

Actually I was referring to the just announced 779 order.
 
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KarelXWB
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Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:54 pm

Quoting rj777 (Reply 47):
Actually I was referring to the just announced 779 order.

This order is indeed not for Swiss, but for Lufthansa themselves.
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SpaceshipDC10
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Lufthansa Said To Buy B779 & A359 Aircraft Part 1

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:56 pm

Quoting rj777 (Reply 43):
So, the 777s are for Lufthansa themselves and not Swiss?
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 45):
there is an order for 6 777-300ERfor SWISS placed about 6 months ago.

There's indeed that order for Swiss, but if I recall correctly, they are an interim measure. Since LH's order talked about in the present thread is for the replacement of the A340 fleet, we'll probably know more with the upcoming official announcement.

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