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flylku
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757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:37 am

In getting ready for my first flight on a 757-300 it got me to thinking, is this a niche airplane with a lomg term future or will the few that were produced be retired along with its older sister the 757-200?
...are we there yet?
 
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SEPilot
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:43 am

They will face the same maintenance issues as the others, and will likely be retired at about the same age. Their future is bleak; they are not candidates for freighter conversions, as there were too few of them to make it worthwhile. Also, I think they are too long to be useful as freighters.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
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Stitch
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:54 am

They probably still work well on trunk routes where they can be filled on a regular basis, but their long-term future is direct retirement from their current operators into the scrapyard, I imagine.
 
B757Forever
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:58 am

The -300 is unique in that it has good CASM and very good range for a NB. I know DL loves the -300 and has long term plans for it as a domestic 767 replacement. Remember the 757-300s are relatively young, DLs are among the last 50 757s built. They will be in the operational fleet for many more years.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
PGNCS
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:58 am

Since they are some of the youngest 757s out there, it's reasonable they will be some of the last retired, but like all other aircraft they will at some point be retired, most likely from their current operators (though you can never say for sure.)
 
modesto2
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:04 am

The increased capacity with similar operating costs to a 752 results in a lower CASM. They're particularly advantageous on primarily leisure routes that lack the high-yielding revenue that larger business markets can command.
 
maxpower1954
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:19 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 1):
They will face the same maintenance issues as the others, and will likely be retired at about the same age. Their future is bleak; they are not candidates for freighter conversions, as there were too few of them to make it worthwhile. Also, I think they are too long to be useful as freighters.

The 757-300 is still almost 10 feet shorter than the DC-8-61/71 and -63/-73 which were among the most successful jet freighters ever produced.
 
MX757
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:45 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 1):
They will face the same maintenance issues as the others, and will likely be retired at about the same age. Their future is bleak

Their future is not bleak as far a UA is concerned. We use them on some interesting routes, 6 are scheduled to operate out of GUM next year. If any used 753's come on the market in the next few years UA will probably pick them up.

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 6):
Quoting SEPilot (Reply 1):
They will face the same maintenance issues as the others, and will likely be retired at about the same age. Their future is bleak; they are not candidates for freighter conversions, as there were too few of them to make it worthwhile. Also, I think they are too long to be useful as freighters.

The 757-300 is still almost 10 feet shorter than the DC-8-61/71 and -63/-73 which were among the most successful jet freighters ever produced.

           
Is it broke...? Yeah I'll fix it.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:10 am

The B 757-300 are not old frames, the oldest are from 1999.
All the RR versions have been refitted with winglets (the smaller sub fleet with PW were not certified).
If airlines do that refit, they do not expect to scrap the frames tomorrow.
They are not used on the milk runs, so they do not accumulate a lot of starts and landings.
They still have a good CASM.
So IMO we will see them for a while, finishing there useful service life.
 
Carpethead
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:56 am

Quoting MX757 (Reply 7):
6 are scheduled to operate out of GUM next year.

Wow that's news to me.
Can the 753 even do GUM-HNL?
Otherwise, you'd have a subfleet operating out of GUM.
I'd also assume they do some of the NRT-GUM flying, but do they really even need 6 in GUM. The only widebody route out of GUM are to HNL & NRT. Or maybe HND if they get the slot allocation.


Back to the topic. It's not like the 753 is comparable to the 736 or A318 to their respective families.
As few have mentioned, the 753 have good CASM and many of the carriers that operate 753 have commonality with their smaller brother 752s. When the 753 retirement comes, the 752 will also be out of the picture too. That will likely be 2025 to 2030.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:04 pm

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 6):
Also, I think they are too long to be useful as freighters.
The 757-300 is still almost 10 feet shorter than the DC-8-61/71 and -63/-73 which were among the most successful jet freighters ever produced.

Their length compared to other narrowbody freighters is immaterial, the relevant factor is that they have increased internal volume with no commensurate increase in payload resulting in the extra length flying empty.
 
PGNCS
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:32 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 10):
Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 6): Also, I think they are too long to be useful as freighters.
The 757-300 is still almost 10 feet shorter than the DC-8-61/71 and -63/-73 which were among the most successful jet freighters ever produced.
Their length compared to other narrowbody freighters is immaterial, the relevant factor is that they have increased internal volume with no commensurate increase in payload resulting in the extra length flying empty.

And even more to the point, my question boils down to whether there are enough 753's in existence to warrant certifying a PTF conversion for it. I doubt it. They are great CASM machines especially for leisure markets, but they are orphans.
 
Burkhard
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:51 pm

I can imagine that, if any of the current operators wants to get rid of aircraft that have cycles left, there is an interest by leisure carriers for a few of them - until the end in the mid twenties.
 
PGNCS
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:55 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 12):
I can imagine that, if any of the current operators wants to get rid of aircraft that have cycles left, there is an interest by leisure carriers for a few of them - until the end in the mid twenties.

I'm not disputing that, but the current operators are perfectly happy to continue to use them on missions requiring relatively high density/low CASM (normally leisure routes.) Once they are used up, I doubt there will be much economical life left in them for other operators, but like I said in reply 4, you never know for sure.

[Edited for spelling error.]

[Edited 2013-09-14 09:56:15]
 
AADC10
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:43 pm

I am not sure how much of a future the 753 has at UA. The ones on the west coast are frequently used to Hawaii and the interiors are a little crusty, which are usually signs of an aircraft on the way out. Most will probably spend their remaining decade or so out of Hawaii and GUM. UA is looking down the road to an all 737 narrowbody fleet.
 
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STT757
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:46 pm

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 14):
I am not sure how much of a future the 753 has at UA. The ones on the west coast are frequently used to Hawaii and the interiors are a little crusty, which are usually signs of an aircraft on the way out. Most will probably spend their remaining decade or so out of Hawaii and GUM. UA is looking down the road to an all 737 narrowbody fleet.

The one delivered new to CO have Directv.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
flyabr
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:49 pm

If UA decided to dump 'em...I'm sure Delta would pick them up in a heartbeat!  
 
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STT757
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:56 pm

Quoting flyabr (Reply 16):
If UA decided to dump 'em...I'm sure Delta would pick them up in a heartbeat!

UA would be more likely to pick up DL's 753s than DL is to pick up UA's. DL only operates Pratt powered 757s, UA operates both Pratt and RR (the UA 753s are RR) powered 757s.
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lhcvg
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:03 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 9):
Back to the topic. It's not like the 753 is comparable to the 736 or A318 to their respective families.
As few have mentioned, the 753 have good CASM and many of the carriers that operate 753 have commonality with their smaller brother 752s. When the 753 retirement comes, the 752 will also be out of the picture too. That will likely be 2025 to 2030.

That actually brings up an interesting question: what will be the very last 757 frame(s) flying -- 75E's, or 753's? Either way, both types are in that niche scenario where they work quite well for now and don't accumulate all that many cycles, so they are safe for the short- to medium-term.
 
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United_fan
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:35 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 17):
Quoting flyabr (Reply 16):
If UA decided to dump 'em...I'm sure Delta would pick them up in a heartbeat!

UA would be more likely to pick up DL's 753s than DL is to pick up UA's. DL only operates Pratt powered 757s, UA operates both Pratt and RR (the UA 753s are RR) powered 757s.

Yes,but UA is selling its P & W 752's to FX .
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
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STT757
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:42 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 19):
Yes,but UA is selling its P & W 752's to FX .

Not all, the PS 757s are getting reconfurbished.
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CONTACREW
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:16 pm

These are the sUA 752s leaving the fleet and going to FEDEX in order of exit :

N527UA
N592UA
N581UA
N586UA
N584UA
N593UA
N541UA
N507UA
N571UA
N572UA
N519UA
N570UA
N530UA
N515UA
N540UA
N534UA
N574UA
N538UA
N511UA
N573UA
N567UA
N575UA
N521UA
N578UA
N539UA
N579UA
N580UA
N569UA
N594UA
N577UA
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flyabr
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:44 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 17):
UA would be more likely to pick up DL's 753s than DL is to pick up UA's. DL only operates Pratt powered 757s, UA operates both Pratt and RR (the UA 753s are RR) powered 757s.

good point about the UA 753s; I'd forgotten that CO ordered them with rollers instead of pratts.  
 
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STT757
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:48 pm

Quoting flyabr (Reply 22):
good point about the UA 753s; I'd forgotten that CO ordered them with rollers instead of pratts.

12 all them are former ATA which CO picked up. All of the 757-300s made were RR powered except the ones NWA took delivery of which were Pratt.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:02 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 9):

Wow that's news to me.
Can the 753 even do GUM-HNL?
Otherwise, you'd have a subfleet operating out of GUM.
I'd also assume they do some of the NRT-GUM flying, but do they really even need 6 in GUM. The only widebody route out of GUM are to HNL & NRT.

I don't think GUM-HNL is feasible on a 753. This is widebody territory, and UA has been using their 777 there for a while, so tere are also a capacity need.
I'd bet they will use them primarily on the busy NRT-GUM route, and other cities in Japan perhaps. Maybe SEL as well.
When I doubt... go running!
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:03 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 17):
Quoting flyabr (Reply 16):If UA decided to dump 'em...I'm sure Delta would pick them up in a heartbeat!

UA would be more likely to pick up DL's 753s than DL is to pick up UA's.

That's not going to be easy for either DL or UA. According to Planespotters, other than UA's, there are only 18 active worldwide -- 1 at FI; 2 each IZ and MT; 13 at DE. There's nothing in storage.
 
solarflyer22
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:21 am

They should be pretty efficient with winglets and the extra seats. I would imagine they might have another 7 years left. The problem is that the 788 is almost the same size. There is not a true replacement. They would be great for a start up transatlantic LCC if one used them. Similar to Iceland Air.
 
777ord
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:34 am

"CO" loves them from a financial standpoint. Most pilots don't like them because of their reduced performance when compared to a 752. They could use some refurbishing.
 
VC10er
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:22 am

As a United flyer, I LOVE the idea of 11 more years abord her.

Really, not all ps aircraft will be renovated???
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
 
CONTACREW
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:43 am

Quoting VC10er (Reply 28):
Really, not all ps aircraft will be renovated???

No and not all 757s being converted to the new PS configuration were in a PS configuration to begin with.

5468, 5687, 5688, 5990, 5995, 5996, 5997, 5598 were all in 2-cabin 24F/158Y configuration before getting reconfigured to the new PS 28J/114Y configuration.
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flyingclrs727
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:01 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 11):
And even more to the point, my question boils down to whether there are enough 753's in existence to warrant certifying a PTF conversion for it. I doubt it. They are great CASM machines especially for leisure markets, but they are orphans.

Why not? I think it would be pretty straightforward to base a 753 P2F on the existing 752 P2F conversions. The most difficult parts of the conversion have already been worked out on the 752 P2F's. It would mostly be a matter of adding extra sections of cargo flooring to the middle sections of the planes. FX or 5X could negotiate to buy the entire 753 fleets from UA and DL. That's 29 planes. I wouldn't be surprised if eventually other airlines flying the 753 would be willing to sell their 753's for freighter conversion when a suitable replacement for passenger service becomes available. Considering these planes mostly don't fly short haul sectors, they aren't accumulating cycles the way 737's are, and they should have plenty of life left after their passenger carrying days are over.



[Edited 2013-09-14 20:29:28]
 
msp747
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:23 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 26):
The problem is that the 788 is almost the same size

That argument might work with the 752's, but a 753 carries roughly 250 people. Far bigger than a 738
 
MHG
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:51 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 25):
13 at DE. There's nothing in storage.

... and DE is quite happy with theirs !
Fits perfect into their business model.
DE is not considering to sell them in the near future ...
I miss the sound of rolls royce darts and speys
 
MaverickM11
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:56 pm

Quoting MHG (Reply 32):
DE is not considering to sell them in the near future ...

   I don't think anyone that has them will let go of them any time soon. They'll likely long outlast the respective 752 fleets until a 200+/- seat aircraft is available with similar unit costs.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
777fan
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RE: 757-300, Niche Airplane With A Future?

Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:38 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 28):

As a United flyer, I LOVE the idea of 11 more years abord her.

Really, not all ps aircraft will be renovated???

I think it'd be great, too. In fact, why not move the UA 753s to the PS routes? You could keep the same number of F and C seats up front while increasing the number of Y+ seats in back (and theoretically lowering the CASM on the route)? Seems to me it'd make a great sub fleet they could milk for a few years beyond the lifecycle of the 752s.

777fan
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