ZKOJH
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New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:43 pm

Well 2 weeks to fill up we do love aviation in New Zealand -!

Welcome to the 134th edition of the New Zealand Aviation Threads. New Zealand part 133 can be found here

New Zealand Aviation Part 133 (by ZKOJH Aug 30 2013 in Civil Aviation)

in part 133 we discussed about;

* More route planning maybe a route to India?
* Issues for NZ 733's
* NZ's Profit
* SQ bringing the A380 to AKL?
* Airpoints
* DJ operations in New Zealand
* Jetstar to start ADL-AKL
* WAG-AKL, AKL-MRO get axed
* ZK-OXB getting the new paint work done in CHC
* Night Rider fares to CHC from November

Lets begin again and enjoy...
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Kiwirob
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:50 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 202):
but that most of the money seems to be spent on a small number of Chinese retailers and tour providers and luxury duty-free goods which leave minimal profits in New Zealand.

Do you think they sleep in the streets and eat from garbage cans?

Quoting koruman (Reply 202):

Luxon told us, for the first time, that China has been bleeding red ink for Air New Zealand from the start, and that only recently has that been arrested.

Recently if you go by what Luxon said was 18 months ago. That's not to recent for me and it means you've been wrong for 18 months.

Quoting koruman (Reply 202):
Pull the other one.

There's no reason to say he's wrong either, if we keep the same percentage of Chinese tourists as we have today then 1 million is the number.

Quoting koruman (Reply 202):

But its attractions are pretty much the opposite of what most 20-something and 30-something People's Republic of China residents are interested in. A large proportion of them must be bored to death, and must tell their friends that.

So what do you think 20 & 30 something Chinese tourists are interested in? Because I agree with this description, which fit's NZ perfectly.

Quote:
Although Chinese tourists will want to see clear blue skies, breath clean fresh air, and visit beautiful sandy beaches, they will avoid any exposure to strong sunlight. Unlike European tourists, they will not want to return home with a Golden tan. In China, dark skin is associated with peasant farmers and poverty. City-folk look down on peasants and their lifestyle.

Unfortunately, our guests may not be interested in delving too deeply into Western culture. And they will not want want to spend a lot of time enjoying just a few very interesting attractions. Instead, they would prefer to sample as many local attractions that they can possibly fit into their tight schedule. This way they believe that they will be getting their money’s worth.
 
koruman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:33 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 1):
So what do you think 20 & 30 something Chinese tourists are interested in? Because I agree with this description, which fit's NZ perfectly.

Quote:
Although Chinese tourists will want to see clear blue skies, breath clean fresh air, and visit beautiful sandy beaches, they will avoid any exposure to strong sunlight. Unlike European tourists, they will not want to return home with a Golden tan. In China, dark skin is associated with peasant farmers and poverty. City-folk look down on peasants and their lifestyle.

Unfortunately, our guests may not be interested in delving too deeply into Western culture. And they will not want want to spend a lot of time enjoying just a few very interesting attractions. Instead, they would prefer to sample as many local attractions that they can possibly fit into their tight schedule. This way they believe that they will be getting their money’s worth.

Rob, I don't want to sound condescending, but I'm not sure that you got the message that Luxon was communicating or that this quote is giving. Or whether you picked up on Xiaotung's description of Chinese friends finding NZ really boring apart from the Duty Free stores.

Luxon very clearly said that the original promotion direction taken by Air NZ in China was a failure - and that direction was "clean, green, natural, unspoiled". And people weren't interested enough for it to make money.

Luxon also said that now they have concentrated their advertising on vacuous reality tv shows for the brain dead, and that they believe that the way to get young upwardly mobile Chinese people to visit NZ is to ensure that in their glossy magazines they have seen their heroes homeymoon or holiday in NZ.

Your own quote comments upon how anything viewed as rural is equated to "peasant" or the past or failure.

Translated into western culture, Air NZ has decided that clean, green NZ doesn't cut it in China and they are instead focusing on the sort of people who follow the Kardashians or the late Jade Goody, and trying to persuade them to go where their heroes have been.

And so far, it's working, in conjunction with downgauging lots of flights from lie-flat beds and premium economy to high density economy plus a small Business recliner seat cabin.

I do apologise to anyone who feels offended by my post, and I don't in any way want to sound superior. I'm always impressed when I visit Singapore or Hong Kong, it's just not to my taste. And I'm not in any way claiming that my taste is better.

And I think that Luxon and Air NZ are being smart. Clean, green, tranquil, natural New Zealand plays well in western culture. But to many people from other cultures, that sounds like a punishment, not a holiday.

Good on Air NZ for recognising that you can't just say "we're clean and natural" and expect to appeal to every market. And the emphasis on better understanding of local markets is very appropriate.
 
ZKOJH
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:55 pm

According to 'Wikipedia' (not the best for info) it says that the seating on the 787-9 will be split into 35J/30P/235Y = 300 ? didn't know that NZ had released the final seating numbers yet? so if this is true, a much better number for the 'Asia Markets'! ?
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Kiwirob
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:33 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 2):
Or whether you picked up on Xiaotung's description of Chinese friends finding NZ really boring apart from the Duty Free stores.

That's his Chinese friends, now Xiaotung might be a pretty popular guy but I'm sure he isn't friends with everyone, I have some Chinese co-workers who have been to NZ and they loved it, one couple have even been twice, the North Island the first time, the South Island this year.

Quoting koruman (Reply 2):
Your own quote comments upon how anything viewed as rural is equated to "peasant" or the past or failure.

Yet

Quote:
Many Chinese want to escape "the intensity of the urban population". In many cities there is a lack of personal space and the presence of smog, making a trip to New Zealand feel like an out-of-this-world experience.

Tourism New Zealand chief executive Kevin Bowler says one way to attract more Chinese tourists is to market New Zealand as an aspirational destination. This is being done at the moment by making a connection between the country and Chinese actress Yao Chen, who travelled to Queenstown in November to get married.

She married in Queenstown, hardly the big city experience you seam to think appeals to Chinese, they have plenty of there own big cities. If you carried on reading what I quoted it's getting a tan that's associated with peasants not visiting smog free rural environments.

Quote:
Chinese buyer Wu Yandong, of Beijing China Travel Service, was at Trenz 2013 in Auckland this year to identify the best of New Zealand tourism products.

Wu and buyers from other countries including India and Indonesia are the influencers in getting Asian travellers on a first visit to experience what Kiwi tour operators have to offer. He says there are more independent Chinese travellers arriving, rather than the guided group tours that were prevalent five years ago.

"From two years ago FIT (free or fully independent travellers) and some special interest started coming. They're into fishing, rafting, skiing or photograph taking," Wu says.

Ocean fishing from charter boats is another favourite, with seafood "a Chinese favourite".

The above quotes can be found here

[quote] Chinese enjoyed a range of activities including golf tours and wine tasting. But there also needs to be better infrastructure provided by New Zealand for their accommodation needs as well.

"From my perspective I'd like to see more hotels. The Chinese hotels are usually very good - four stars, five stars . . . so Chinese customers of course like those things as well," Hong says. /quote]

Completely agree here, whilst we have world class high end lodges we need a few 5 star properties in Auckland, Wellington, Bay of Islands and Queenstown.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:46 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 202):
Don't get me wrong, I'm very impressed by Luxon. But there was an almost complete lack of detail or information in that speech, just a series of platitudes about engaging with your market.

I assume it was it was tailored to his audience.

Quoting koruman (Reply 202):
If Chinese leisure travel is to quadruple in the next decade, I'd be surprised to see New Zealand's share increase by more than around 50%, and certainly not 400%.

According to one tourist research agency, it will hit 46% y-o-y growth next year:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11123301

The number of Chinese tourists coming to New Zealand is forecast to surge by 46 per cent with an extra 100,000 visitors during the next year, according to a tourism research agency.

Research institute director Wolfgang Georg Arlt said the main increase in travellers came from a new generation of young, wealthy Chinese, born in the 1980s and 90s who had only ever known economic progress."


I dunno - I can't predict the future. That number seems optimistic to me, but I don't study the market and I've been wrong before.

If it is even half of that number, I hope we're ready - doubt we are.

Quoting koruman (Reply 202):
et's be totally honest here. I love going back to New Zealand. I had a lovely few days there last week, and I'm going back next Friday.

But its attractions are pretty much the opposite of what most 20-something and 30-something People's Republic of China residents are interested in. A large proportion of them must be bored to death, and must tell their friends that.

If I recall correctly, you were spectacularly underwhelmed by Phuket and yet many, many tourists go there.

I am always completely underwhelmed by Surfers Paradise - I can never find a "there" there - but many, many people can.

In the very early days of the Japanese tourist boom in Australia, there was a big market for watching the frill-necked lizard run. Doesn't cut it for me, but each to their own. I don't assume anyone else wants the things that interest me.

mariner

[Edited 2013-09-15 11:47:58]
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Kiwirob
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:19 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 5):
there was a big market for watching the frill-necked lizard run.

Which makes me think of the Agrodome in Rotorua, I took my kids there in August, it was a full house with easily half the audience being young 20-30 something Chinese couples, many with a child in tow, they appeared to enjoy it and went snap happy taking photos with the sheep and the sheep dogs.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:40 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 6):
Which makes me think of the Agrodome in Rotorua, I took my kids there in August, it was a full house with easily half the audience being young 20-30 something Chinese couples, many with a child in tow, they appeared to enjoy it and went snap happy taking photos with the sheep and the sheep dogs.

I suppose that's partially my point. People tend to sneer at "organized entertainment for the masses" and coach parties to see the obvious sites, but if you'e on holiday with limited time, they give a chance to have different and interesting experiences. "Sheep are interesting?" I hear you cry - well, to some, they are, especially if they've never seen 'em before.

There's something else. I first arrived in NZ in 1965, and although I had lived in several countries (I was raised in the Middle East) I had never seen anywhere like NZ.

People say it was dull then - the land of the long white shroud - but it wasn't for me, I had never experienced such a casual, barefoot society and it was completely seductive - despite the six o'clock swill. My love affair with New Zealand began then, and despite all the glamorous places I have lived since, it has never ended, I kept coming back. Every time I go to more vibrant Australia I wonder if I should move back there - but NZ wins every time.

My concern is that NZ's own inferiority complex about itself ("we gotta be more "international") may be it's own undoing.

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xiaotung
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:44 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 4):
That's his Chinese friends, now Xiaotung might be a pretty popular guy but I'm sure he isn't friends with everyone, I have some Chinese co-workers who have been to NZ and they loved it, one couple have even been twice, the North Island the first time, the South Island this year.

I actually used the example to say that even the ones who find New Zealand boring still spend and there is nothing wrong with that.

I think one of the selling points is actually the clean and natural environment of New Zealand given the pollution and food health issues which are becoming increasingly worrisome in China. New Zealand only needs to attract a fraction of the booming international Chinese travellers to be successful.

Given the current trend of what Chinese tourists do when they travel and their desire for luxury goods, they probably would find time spent on Galeries Lafayette the most enjoyable if they visited Paris.

So if New Zealand is not ready, they won't care and they will go somewhere else and that will be New Zealand's loss.
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:27 pm

I read an academic article that claimed that over 30% of those chinese visiting New Zealand had some family connection to the country. Uncle/Aunty living here or niece studying here (and the uncle and aunt term isnt just bloodlines in most Asian cultures )
The other part usually went on an organised tour. the organised tours arent just the ones sold in China but also those sold by Chinese agents in New Zealand. Its coach tours that cramp in as many sites as possible and plenty of shopping.

Chinese tourists are great to me, they come visit everything, spend heavily on souvenirs and dont go pissing and puking down the backstreets. Great tourists for everyone.

We must remember that the tourism we see in NZ is so controlled by horrible flightcentre that you dont get the normal kind of tourism thats mroe common in the rest of the world, ie grouptours. in Europe the kuonis, Thomas cooks etc send people all over the world on grouptours, charter holidays. If you go back 40 years they used to be loaded with excursions, these days most dont want to travel around with large groups and the destinations we choose tend to speak our languages. For the chinese the destinations doesnt speak mandarin nor have they been able to travel for a long time.
Give it another ten years and their traveltaste will have changed and be like the SIngaporean are today. (Most SIngaporeans dont go on group tours its seen as non trendy)

We must also remember, NZ is a tiny, tiny destination for the chinese. A niche offer that depends on the tour organisiers to provide publicity. Luxon is rightfully mentioning world famous in NZ - way way to much is world famous in NZ and thats dangerous.
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aerorobnz
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:40 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 201):
Good luck with that. Canada has very big S. Asian communities (YYZ, YVR, YEG), but AC has never been able to make it work - started and abandoned several times.

Exactly. At the last year's staff meeting regarding profits, When one of the staff asked about India, on of the Exec team said something along the lines of "We might fly there one day but not in my lifetime..." I would rule india out completely except as a codeshare arrangement.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 203):

Recently if you go by what Luxon said was 18 months ago. That's not to recent for me and it means you've been wrong for 18 months.

LOL. at least.

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
My concern is that NZ's own inferiority complex about itself ("we gotta be more "international") may be it's own undoing.

It has already proved to be it's undoing in State Affairs and making free trade agreements with larger more powerful countries. NZ gives it all away in negotiation just to get a signature on the dotted line.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:29 am

I'm not advocating this - just asking a question.

Many, many years ago (many!) there was a lot of hoopla because there was service HBA-NZ (I think TAA started the ball rolling).

Then I went away to the US and didn't keep track, and somewhere along the line HBA lost NZ service.

I assume (?) the Tasmanians would be pleased, but is Hobart any kind of a market from NZ - or vice versa?

mariner
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DavidByrne
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:12 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 11):
Many, many years ago (many!) there was a lot of hoopla because there was service HBA-NZ (I think TAA started the ball rolling).

Then I went away to the US and didn't keep track, and somewhere along the line HBA lost NZ service.

I assume (?) the Tasmanians would be pleased, but is Hobart any kind of a market from NZ - or vice versa?

This was initially an interesting reflection of Australian domestic aviation political theatre of the time. Ansett had been badgering the Australian government to be allowed to undertake Transtasman flights. The government, of course, consistently declined on the basis that the international carrier was Qantas, end of story. While I don't know how CHC-HBA was settled on, it was a compromise - a route that Qantas didn't fly. However, enter TAA which was locked in the domestic "two-airline" policy with Ansett, crying foul and demanding the same rights as Ansett. The government's response (in the mid-70s if my memory is accurate) was to allow both carriers to run a weekly 727 on the route (though I think the airlines subsequently cut back to fortnightly each).

NZ was the third player on the route, starting in January 1983 - the other carriers had gone home by then. The service operated year-round weekly on a Saturday with a 737-200, though in some summers a second Sunday service was added. One summer they actually operated two flights on a Saturday - and none for the rest of the week.

I travelled that route many times between 1983 and 1986 as I had business dealings in Hobart and fancied the novelty (yes!) of crossing the Tasman in a twin-engined aircraft. I may stand corrected, but I think that this was the first and for some years the only regular flight across the Tasman in a twin. I don't know when it ceased, but I'm pretty sure it was in the current century.

As an aside, Qantas also served NZ from Hobart, albeit briefly. I flew on (I think) the second-last HBA-AKL service on a QF 762 some time in the mid-80s. By the time my next trip back to HBA came along, they had retained the "direct" flight but rerouted it via MEL. I still remember being amazed at the hoopla that QF put on to promote the flight as being the inaugural of their new "improved" services on AKL-MEL-HBA, while conveniently ignoring the fact that their original nonstop service was actually far superior. I think I've still got an "inagural flight" souvenir somewhere! But even the AKL-MEL-HBA service didn't last long, and that was the end of QF 767s to HBA as well.

[Edited 2013-09-15 18:15:04]
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ZKSUJ
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:49 am

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 193):
Makes you wonder if there is a future for the A380 in NZ colours, if visitors jump to 1 million within a decade.

I've said it somewhere before that NZ could do with a small fleet of A380s. But it will be a while away if it happens. Could take over NZ1/2 and a few other routes.
I think the 77W is too small in the long term. Never made sense to me reducing the size of a plane while the aviation market is aparantly 'growing'
 
koruman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:24 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 13):
I've said it somewhere before that NZ could do with a small fleet of A380s. But it will be a while away if it happens. Could take over NZ1/2 and a few other routes.
I think the 77W is too small in the long term. Never made sense to me reducing the size of a plane while the aviation market is aparantly 'growing'

Who are the extra 80 passengers whom you wish to squeeze onto this aircraft, and what would be the yields at the prices you would have to charge to pack 'em in?

I would think that ultimately Chinese airlines should control around 80% of their outbound market to New Zealand. Their cost base is low and their product is below average. How can Air NZ compete for volume against that combination?

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 10):
When one of the staff asked about India, on of the Exec team said something along the lines of "We might fly there one day but not in my lifetime..." I would rule india out completely except as a codeshare arrangement.

I agree, but I have serious misgivings. A far higher proportion of Indian travellers are independent travellers compared to PR Chinese ones, and they have the huge advantage that the Indian demographic which travels overseas has 100% literacy in English.

And while Luxon is using whatever the name is for "Chinese Idol" and "Big Brother" to drum up recognition of NZ in China, he already has it in India through cricket.

I still think that the old Brisbane base was a good idea that cam before its time. I would like to see an Auckland-Brisbane-Mumbai flight and probably a Shanghai-Brisbane (or Gold Coast)-Christchurch one. Both with variations on the Seats To Suit model.
 
PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:47 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 11):
Then I went away to the US and didn't keep track, and somewhere along the line HBA lost NZ service.

The last CHC-HBA-CHC 732 appears to have been Sat 25 Apr 1998 and it didn't operate 03 May 1997 to 08 Nov 1997, so peak season only before it ceased.

Quoting mariner (Reply 11):
I assume (?) the Tasmanians would be pleased, but is Hobart any kind of a market from NZ - or vice versa?

Definitely some market HBA-AKL, and a useful connection to AKL-LAX/SFO/YVR and some AKL-APW/RAR/PPT, but is it enough to fill a 320?

VA could possibly do ADL-HBA-CHC.

PA515

[Edited 2013-09-15 21:01:23]
 
PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:07 am

HIAPL 2009 Hobart Airport Master Plan
www.hobartairport.com.au/uploads/Final%20Master%20Plan%20Smaller.pdf

Air Traffic Forcasts (page vi)

Quote:
It is anticipated that international regular passenger transport flights could commence between Hobart and New Zealand and Hobart and Singapore or Kuala Lumpur by 2012

PA515

[Edited 2013-09-15 22:08:35]
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:28 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 14):
Who are the extra 80 passengers whom you wish to squeeze onto this aircraft, and what would be the yields at the prices you would have to charge to pack 'em in?

Not now but in future, say 10 years down the line who knows? My post relates to down the track. Never say never, stranger things have happened is what I've learnt during my time on this planet. A380 in NZ colours later on? Who knows, it's not far fetched at all especially if things keep 'growing' the way they do as we are told they are doing
 
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:40 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 15):
Definitely some market HBA-AKL, and a useful connection to AKL-LAX/SFO/YVR and some AKL-APW/RAR/PPT, but is it enough to fill a 320?
Quoting PA515 (Reply 16):
Air Traffic Forcasts (page vi)

Quote:
It is anticipated that international regular passenger transport flights could commence between Hobart and New Zealand and Hobart and Singapore or Kuala Lumpur by 2012

Thanks for all that. I think they are a tad overly optimistic about SIN or KUL - and maybe about NZ - but that's not a problem for me, I'm an optimistic bloke.

I'm a great fan of less than daily service, and it's tough to think that the Hobart population of 250,000 couldn't support NZ A320 service - on a very limited frequency - especially with the connection possibilities, but since no airline agrees, it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong.

Still, I hope the airport gets its wish and that service to NZ is a possibility. I like Tasmania - I think it gets the rough end of the pineapple quite often.

mariner

[Edited 2013-09-15 22:41:16]
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DavidByrne
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:52 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 14):
I still think that the old Brisbane base was a good idea that cam before its time. I would like to see an Auckland-Brisbane-Mumbai flight and probably a Shanghai-Brisbane (or Gold Coast)-Christchurch one. Both with variations on the Seats To Suit model.

I agree with this - and I could even in the future see NZ flying AKL-BNE-AUH as part of a three-way VA/EY/NZ approach to serving Europe from Australasia a la QF via DXB.

India is a difficult proposition for NZ on its own metal without an Australian stop, as it would be very thin, at least in its initial phases. But a BNE hub, properly co-ordinated with a wave of flights to WLG, CHC and ZQN as well as AKL, could serve a range of Asian destinations currently not considered viable nonstop from AKL. And in partnership with VA, could provide Australian feed as well.
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DavidByrne
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:57 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):
I'm a great fan of less than daily service, and it's tough to think that the Hobart population of 250,000 couldn't support NZ A320 service - on a very limited frequency - especially with the connection possibilities, but since no airline agrees, it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong.

Agree. I wonder, though, whether VA might not consider an E190 or two being based in AKL specifically to provide feed to and from NZ's North American flights with 2-3 services a week each from HBA, CBR, TSV, NTL for example, in addition to the point-to-point traffic.
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:16 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 20):
Agree. I wonder, though, whether VA might not consider an E190 or two being based in AKL specifically to provide feed to and from NZ's North American flights with 2-3 services a week each from HBA, CBR, TSV, NTL for example, in addition to the point-to-point traffic.

Mayhap.

I have to say, though, that based on my US experience I have an eyebrow raised about the E190. It's a good ride, but the CASM/CASK is several points higher than the A320.

In a survey made by one airline (in an LCC situation) the break-even load factor on the E190 was in excess of 90% while the A320 was about 82%.

Now, oil was very high when the survey was made and all sorts of factors play into this. Virgin seems to be making the E190 work, although it got rid of the E170's, which have an even higher CASK.

The E190 seems at its best in a legacy situation of high yield connecting traffic or, on its own, thinner routes but with high yields.

I'd also be interested to know how Virgin manages with maintenance, because for JetBlue the aircraft is a hanger hog:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-cut-into-jetblues-profits-385172/

"Embraer maintenance costs cut into JetBlue's profits

JetBlue Airways attributes the decline in its first quarter earnings to weakened travel demand, caused by the lingering effects of Hurricane Sandy and unplanned maintenance costs on the engines of its Embraer 190 aircraft"


This has been true almost since the airline first took the E190's. As the CEO also says:

"Barger calls the accelerated maintenance "teething pains," noting that JetBlue was the launch customer of the Embraer 190.

"As a young airline there was a lot of burden on us to be the worldwide launch customer for this airframe," he says. "I would have loved to have been a follower."


mariner

[Edited 2013-09-15 23:18:25]
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Kiwirob
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:42 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
People tend to sneer at "organized entertainment for the masses" and coach parties to see the obvious sites, but if you'e on holiday with limited time, they give a chance to have different and interesting experiences. "Sheep are interesting?" I hear you cry - well, to some, they are, especially if they've never seen 'em before.

People tend to forget that some people travel with there kids, when travelling with kids you do completely different things than when travelling by yourself or as a couple. Chinese kids like cudly animals, how much more cudly can you get than a couple of weeks old lamb?

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
Every time I go to more vibrant Australia I wonder if I should move back there

I've never felt Australia was any more a vibrant a place to be, every time I went I was always pretty happy to return home, I've never had that grass is greener in Australia belief that many kiwis mistakenly believe, we never hear about the many who come home with tails between their legs, broken and battered.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 9):
Most SIngaporeans dont go on group tours its seen as non trendy

As I quoted above this is already starting with Chinese tourists.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 9):
way way to much is world famous in NZ and thats dangerous.

I only though L&P was world famous in NZ?
 
aerokiwi
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:46 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 12):
This was initially an interesting reflection of Australian domestic aviation political theatre of the time.

Thanks for that. I love the hilariously ridiculous machinations of politics and aviation policy. Thankfully, mostly in yesteryear.

Quoting koruman (Reply 14):
I still think that the old Brisbane base was a good idea that cam before its time.

So do I. A great spearhead into the likes of Seoul, Taipei... maybe KUL, BKK and SIN could've stayed on the cards, along with more of the Japanese cities, with a fleet of 5-6 refurb'd 767s. Bummer.

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):
I'm a great fan of less than daily service, and it's tough to think that the Hobart population of 250,000 couldn't support NZ A320 service - on a very limited frequency - especially with the connection possibilities,

Yeah that sounds reasonable. I guess it's also a matter if there are simply other markets where the current fleet can be used more profitably. But it would make NZ and AKL a pretty impressive option for transfers.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:28 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 19):
India is a difficult proposition for NZ on its own metal without an Australian stop

Why fly it at all when AI already serves the market with a 787? A codeshare on AI via SYD/MEL would take care of the market just fine.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
DavidByrne
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:14 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 21):
"Embraer maintenance costs cut into JetBlue's profits

JetBlue Airways attributes the decline in its first quarter earnings to weakened travel demand, caused by the lingering effects of Hurricane Sandy and unplanned maintenance costs on the engines of its Embraer 190 aircraft"

This has been true almost since the airline first took the E190's. As the CEO also says:

"Barger calls the accelerated maintenance "teething pains," noting that JetBlue was the launch customer of the Embraer 190.

"As a young airline there was a lot of burden on us to be the worldwide launch customer for this airframe," he says. "I would have loved to have been a follower."

Oh well, so perhaps the E190 isn't going to work. Maybe the A320 could serve secondary Australian ports at reduced frequencies, but anything less than twice weekly and there's little point even contemplating it as a feed to the North American market. CS100 in NZ colours, anyone?

Just joking.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 23):
Quoting koruman (Reply 14):
I still think that the old Brisbane base was a good idea that cam before its time.

So do I. A great spearhead into the likes of Seoul, Taipei... maybe KUL, BKK and SIN could've stayed on the cards, along with more of the Japanese cities, with a fleet of 5-6 refurb'd 767s. Bummer.

It also occurs to me that this is by far the most likely way that WLG and CHC (and even ZQN) will ever achieve their long-sought "direct" connections to Asian ports. A properly-organised hubbing operation at BNE could feed people seamlessly from a wide range of Asian ports direct to the skifields or southern scenery, to all the business and political centres - and even (why not?) to the thermal centre.

If an Asian hub was ever contemplated, VA and NZ should focus their entire BNE Transtasman operations around feeding that hub, meaning that AKL, WLG, CHC, ZQN and DUD would all have direct and seamless connections to potentially many destinations in Asia via BNE - a hugely significant advantage to all centres in improving their accessibility for business and tourism. There's no increase in Transtasman flying required, just co-ordination of that flying around a BNE hub. Why wouldn't you?

I don't see such a hub as being in any way leaching passengers away from NZ's existing nonstop services to Asia (though conceivably some of these services could be routed through BNE), as the destinations would be new markets.

All of this has been tried before, but not in the same time and space. There has already been a BNE Asian hub, but I was always disappointed at NZ's failure to really capitalise on it. There have already been flights from BNE to more NZ cities simultaneously, back in SJ days, than I ever dreamed I would see in my lifetime, though many disappeared when NZ digested SJ. A bold strategy would be for NZ to do both again as part of a specific market positioning plan in the wider Australasian market, hand-in-hand with its Australian partner.

The exact counterpart to the BNE hub is the use of AKL as a hub by Australians heading for North America. This already operates very smoothly and is a significant contributor to the airline's coffers, by most accounts. If NZ seriously wants to be an Australasian force, it surely has to have a hub somewhere in Australia, and preferably in some kind of close arrangement with VA, not least because it owns (or soon will?) 26%.
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:12 pm

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 25):
Oh well, so perhaps the E190 isn't going to work. Maybe the A320 could serve secondary Australian ports at reduced frequencies, but anything less than twice weekly and there's little point even contemplating it as a feed to the North American market. CS100 in NZ colours, anyone?

Well - not necessarily. The problem with the E190, as the CEO said, is that they were the first to fly the model. They had to deal with the glitches and other airlines benefitted from this.

The early software issues that led to a grounding of several of the type were resolved by JetBlue and Embraer and were then applied to the aircraft at other airlines:

http://peanuts.aero/low_cost_airline...ent&task=view&id=2563/59&Itemid=59

"JetBlue commences rolling grounding of E190 fleet - JetBlue commenced the grounding of 25 of its E190 regional jets on 08-Mar-07, on a two-by-two basis, in order to rectify persistent software problems with the aircraft.
JetBlue and Embraer will carry out the repairs at Embraer%u2019s maintenance facility in Nashville."


It's a problem of being "first" with any model and I haven't heard of particular maintenance issues at Virgin, so maybe their aircraft have the glitches ironed out.

A lot of people were surprised (including Airbus) that JetBlue didn't go for the A319 for their smaller model, but that aircraft has - or had - problems, too. The costs are similar to the A320, so the aircraft have to be full to off-set the reduced revenue. The A319Neo has not been a big seller, but I am told that the acquisition costs of the A319 (not Neo) have dropped so dramatically that the aircraft is becoming attractive again.

I like the idea of some of the routes you suggested and I'd like to think (like HBA) they could be made to work. Maybe the C Series will prove its worth.

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Kaiarahi
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:34 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 26):
It's a problem of being "first" with any model and I haven't heard of particular maintenance issues at Virgin, so maybe their aircraft have the glitches ironed out.

Same with AC. A software tweak was needed for cold weather starts (i.e. -20C and lower), no particular issues since.
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aerorobnz
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:58 pm

The whole point of these alliances, commercial arrangements is so NZ doesn't have to fly everywhere to have a network. Having an agreement such as NZ/VA or NZ/CX means they have the fares and the market without the (large) cost of starting new routes. This specifically applies to a BNE hub but to other routes as well. Australia is too expensive a country to just go and set up a (duplicating) hub with a crew base, ground staff (even if it is just toll Dnata) and the additional fleet required to service it properly. The 763s would not work - at their age they require more regular maintenance. The last place you'd want to be basing them is away from AKL. I've long been a proponent of the 763 refitting, but it is not suitable as the nuts and bolts of a new hub. If NZ really wanted to, they would be starting one in the South Pacific, Asia or South America. because of the lower costs involved.

The few passengers a day that do fly to HBA go through MEL,ADL,SYD. on NZ/VA.
I think HBA is more likely than other secondary routings in Australia like CBR/DRW/ASP/MKY/ROK but still NZ will struggle justifying more than a seasonal operation to HBA. The same A320 in all likelihood can fly additional flights to the South Pacific and make more money. They certainly would not order new aircraft types solely to operate a borderline route.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:51 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 28):
The whole point of these alliances, commercial arrangements is so NZ doesn't have to fly everywhere to have a network.

For sure. But I guess the same could be said about MCY, which is not an arduous drive from BNE.

As I said at the start of this, I'm not advocating HBA - just intrigued as to what happened - but I do think there may be more to Australia than just the major centres.

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koruman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:57 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 28):
The whole point of these alliances, commercial arrangements is so NZ doesn't have to fly everywhere to have a network. Having an agreement such as NZ/VA or NZ/CX means they have the fares and the market without the (large) cost of starting new routes. This specifically applies to a BNE hub but to other routes as well. Australia is too expensive a country to just go and set up a (duplicating) hub with a crew base, ground staff (even if it is just toll Dnata) and the additional fleet required to service it properly.

That is true, but don't forget that Air NZ also owns nearly a third of Virgin Australia, in spite of the bogus front to make their international operations appear independently owned.

At that point, you can question just how closely integrated the two carriers can be, and whether Virgin's existing crew case (and indeed HQ) at Brisbane comes into play.

I am not trying to create Air Koruman from my own local airport, as the following destinations are not ones I intend to frequent. But consider the opportunities created by a "Hub To Asia" at Brisbane or even the Gold Coast (for reasons of inbound tourism).

You would use 788 and 789 aircraft to fly:

BNE-PVG (789)
BNE-HKT (789)
BNE-NRT (788)
BNE-BOM (789)
BNE-DPS (789)

.......but you would also coordinate schedules for flights to/from Auckland (789), Wellington (788), Christchurch (788), Rotorua (320) and Queenstown (320) with that.

It would, it's true, replace the non-stop PVG services, but fewer than 5% of passengers are business travellers anyway, and for the other 95% who are mainly inbound tourists it offers the ability to fly straight in/out of the ports they actually intend to visit in New Zealand.
BNE hub
 
DavidByrne
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:06 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 28):
Having an agreement such as NZ/VA or NZ/CX means they have the fares and the market without the (large) cost of starting new routes. This specifically applies to a BNE hub but to other routes as well. Australia is too expensive a country to just go and set up a (duplicating) hub with a crew base, ground staff (even if it is just toll Dnata) and the additional fleet required to service it properly.

Agreed, but I don't think this in any way negates the idea of a BNE hub.

First, there's no reason to assume that the flights beyond BNE would be operated by NZ metal - they could easily be VA metal.

Second, there's no reason for aircraft to be actually based at BNE - a flight AKL-BNE-(say) BOM would be no different to any other one-stop flight departing AKL. It's true that NZ has eliminated one-stop flights with a very small handful of exceptions, and no doubt for good reasons. However, a successful hub drawing in Australia-bound Asian pax (vastly expanding the potential market size) as well as NZ-bound pax might well trump those other reasons. Adding an en route stop at BNE to a proposed route would increase its NZ-based passenger catchment by more than 50% - and that's just Brisbane and the Gold Coast; connections to other parts of Australia would increase the catchment vastly more than that).

Third, it's clear that NZ does have intentions to operate further into Asia, which means additional fleet in anyone's language. The only issue is whether they go out on a limb and operate risky nonstop services over vast distances on what may initially be thinnish routes, or whether they take a more conservative approach and get "fatter" prospects by adding in the potential Australian market as well. And if they take that latter course of action, then operating BNE as a hub is a no-brainer, given that WLG, CHC, ZQN and DUD already have daily services to BNE (OK, well ZQN and DUD are less than daily for most of the year, but do get right up there at their peak times).

It's clear to me that the only way that NZ can achieve significant growth is to tap into the wider Australasian market. Now it has an Australian partner, that is made immeasurably easier. Conversely, if NZ doesn't adopt an Australian hub, it is limiting itself to a very minor role in serving the fastest-growing sector of the global aviation market.
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sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:16 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 21):
It's a good ride, but the CASM/CASK is several points higher than the A320.

But the total trip costs full with 100 or 112 passengers would beat an A320 partially loaded. The LH version with 18"+ cushion and 32" pitch beats the TT version of the A320 hands down. In fact my recent FRA-TRN leg on an E195 was the best ride I have had since PE in a 744.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:32 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 32):
But the total trip costs full with 100 or 112 passengers would beat an A320 partially loaded.

Sure. As I said:

Quoting mariner (Reply 21):
The E190 seems at its best in a legacy situation of high yield connecting traffic or, on its own, thinner routes but with high yields.

CASM/CASK always has to be balanced against revenue - and unquestionably it is a sweet ride.

mariner

[Edited 2013-09-16 19:33:30]
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:58 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 31):
which means additional fleet in anyone's language.

growth from home base is an ENTIRELY different prospect. The expenditure involved is hugely reduced, and the risks much less. I happen to know the sum bandied around by NZ for commencing new routes., that is from the home market, so I would expect from Australia to be significantly higher. The cost outlay I would expect would offset any gains made from the route.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 31):
Second, there's no reason for aircraft to be actually based at BNE - a flight AKL-BNE-(say) BOM would be no different to any other one-stop flight departing AKL

It definitely would be. They base a crew in the furthest, most expensive market from home base for a reason..
1)Crew would be overnighting on flights which are currently scheduled AKL-BNE-AKL. That adds up in terms of hotels and allowances.

2) By being out of NZL they dilute the pool of staff in AKL. Thus they would need to increase pilot and cabin crew numbers. More complexity = more expense. Look at the way the North American carriers have cut hubs, crew bases etc and gained focus cities.

3) The aircraft need to be based in AKL to operate AKL-LAX/SFO/YVR/HKG in the evening. There are not sufficient orders to allow for this. NZ only made 182million, has comparatively low debt and $1b in the bank. That is a better position than having more debt to fund all this and reduced cash reserves. Not good for share prices and dividends either.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 31):
First, there's no reason to assume that the flights beyond BNE would be operated by NZ metal - they could easily be VA metal.

This I agree with, It should be only using VA planes if it was to happen. But I do think even with the growth from a new market it would still dilute and even cannibalize existing routes from AKL meaning that overall it could not be considered raw growth, merely diversified figures. I believe there are better alternatives to achieve the same kind of growth.
eg: extend codeshare on all CX flights ex Australia

Quoting koruman (Reply 30):
You would use 788 and 789 aircraft to fly:

We agree on the validity and benefit of having the 788 in the fleet, but I don't see Australia as sole driver to their success, merely just one aspect.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:11 pm

Now the 789 has taken its first flight, I wonder how long it'll take before Boeing brings it down here for NZ to have a look at. It sure looks great, much better in proportion than the 788; but I wish it was to be delivered in teal..
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DavidByrne
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:01 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 34):
I believe there are better alternatives to achieve the same kind of growth.
eg: extend codeshare on all CX flights ex Australia

The trouble with code-sharing on an Asian carrier is that they generally only serve one destination non-stop - in this case HKG. All other destinations involve a further connection. So New Zealand originating traffic would still connect via Auckland (not seamless). It also means that there's no real penetration by NZ of the Australian onward market, except in the role of a "travel agent". But if VA were to focus its international aspirations out of (say) BNE then there is a much greater chance of a "seamless interchange" being negotiated.

My fundamental argument is that med-long term, VA will need to establish an Asian network if it is to maintain any kind of parity with QF and other competitors. Wherever VA serves Asia from, it makes sense for NZ to hub extensively with them at that/those point(s) (whether SYD, BNE or MEL) and to develop services both to Asia and across the Tasman as a joint strategy. The paint job on the metal is less significant than the principle of both VA and NZ leveraging their close structural connection to provide a truly seamless network offering in future many multiples of the city pairs currently provided by them as individual carriers.
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TheLifehouse
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:31 pm

Any updates on ZK-MVD?

According to a few forum posts shes due for delivery around September-October.

It will interesting to see her in the new fern livery  
 
PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:09 pm

Quoting TheLifehouse (Reply 37):
Any updates on ZK-MVD?

According to a few forum posts shes due for delivery around September-October.

At the time ZK-MVC was delivered someone said ATR production had slipped about three weeks behind schedule.

The latest planespotters update has up to c/n 1113 listed and still no ZK-MVD.

www.planespotters.net/Production_List/ATR/ATR-42/index.php?p=12

The most recent delivery was c/n 1107 VH-VPI on 14 Sep, so ZK-MVD could be late October to early November.

There's an airbus test flights thread:
http://forum.flightradar24.com/threa...r)-letters-A-z-fase-of-test/page72

PA515

[Edited 2013-09-17 16:10:01]

[Edited 2013-09-17 16:14:18]

[Edited 2013-09-17 16:15:43]
 
Andrensn
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:34 am

I just saw a NZRAF Hercules take off from Nelson.
Not a very common sight around here
Does anyone know why it was here???

Cheers Andrensn
 
xiaotung
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:14 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 36):
My fundamental argument is that med-long term, VA will need to establish an Asian network if it is to maintain any kind of parity with QF and other competitors. Wherever VA serves Asia from, it makes sense for NZ to hub extensively with them at that/those point(s) (whether SYD, BNE or MEL) and to develop services both to Asia and across the Tasman as a joint strategy. The paint job on the metal is less significant than the principle of both VA and NZ leveraging their close structural connection to provide a truly seamless network offering in future many multiples of the city pairs currently provided by them as individual carriers.

With only 5 x 77W's in the long haul fleet and the majority of 330's stuck with Perth, I can't see how VA can establish an Asian hub unless they axe AUH, which I think would make enormous sense. Why should they fly to AUH when their partner EY serves Australia adequately? Perhaps HKG as a hub and a partnership with CX would make more sense given CX has maxed out their traffic rights into Australia. Sooner or later VA will need to address China and HKG may help solve that problem. At the end of the day, I can see NZ, VA, CX and CA working as two groups of airlines in the region as a very powerful force, not to mention it would be quite a way for CX to get back at QF for the Jetstar Hong Kong drama. This would leave SQ in an arkward position. Having said that, there has been rumour that CX is considering leave oneworld for Star, so they would have to face that issue anyway. Interesting time ahead.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:53 pm

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 40):
I can't see how VA can establish an Asian hub unless they axe AUH, which I think would make enormous sense.



Not sure why you thnk that axing AUH would make sense. Surely VA's AUH link is exactly the same strategy that QF is following with DXB, which it sees as an opportunity to easily provide multiple European links. Carriers that serve Europe from further afield in Asia offer many fewer European cities. The only other option is to consciously decide not to serve Europe at all. Or to put all its eggs in the EY basket and just be a "travel agent" on their behalf.
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aerorobnz
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:54 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 36):
The trouble with code-sharing on an Asian carrier is that they generally only serve one destination non-stop - in this case HKG.

I think there will be a South East asian partner in the not too distant future, to match the HKG/China partner CX and our Japanese partner NH. We see VX and Delta feature more and more for US domestic oncarriage, and South America will have an agreement with someone if that starts up. It's about finding airlines which suit NZ now it seems, even though the Star Alliance is still important as well.

We could have an agreement which goes right across the alliance board if we saw a closer arrangement with DL/GA/AR/AF/KL from Skyteam for example LA,JJ/US/AA/BA from one world and the existing star alliance partners.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
xiaotung
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:22 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 41):
Not sure why you thnk that axing AUH would make sense.

Given the limited number of aircraft in the long haul fleet, I just thought they could be better utilised if deployed to North Asia where VA has no presence at all. And they can work with NZ around it.

AUH's purpose is connecting on to EY's European network. NZ has identified that the real opportunities are in Pacific Rim. Shouldn't that be the focus of VA's long haul development as well?
 
DavidByrne
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:14 am

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 43):
Given the limited number of aircraft in the long haul fleet, I just thought they could be better utilised if deployed to North Asia where VA has no presence at all. And they can work with NZ around it.

AUH's purpose is connecting on to EY's European network. NZ has identified that the real opportunities are in Pacific Rim. Shouldn't that be the focus of VA's long haul development as well?

I guess we're looking at this quite differently. Sure, right now, VA's metal is committed in certain directions. But if a new strategic direction was implemented, anything is possible (even further fleet acquisition).

[Edited 2013-09-18 19:15:40]
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ZKOJH
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:09 am

''Air NZ Dreamliner could mean cheaper fares''

Air New Zealand could have scope to drop fares on long-haul routes to fend off competition when its fuel-efficient Boeing 787 Dreamliners come into service, an analyst says.

Boeing yesterday for the first time flew the stretched version of the 787, for which Air New Zealand is the launch customer.

The planemaker described the five-hour test flight from its Seattle base as close to flawless and the aircraft will now go through air and ground testing to gain certification.

Air New Zealand expects big commercial gains from the 787-9, the first of which it is due around the middle of next year. It will use it to replace older planes flying to Asia, Western Australia and holiday destinations in the Pacific.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11126722
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:39 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 45):

Cheap fares and sending them to the low yielding China/Japan market because they can't fill 777s?  

They said the A380 was going to mean cheaper fares too. NZ to Europe is still $2000.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
Mr AirNZ
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:23 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 46):
NZ to Europe is still $2000.

I consider that a bargain price!
 
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zkojq
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:37 am

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 4):
Completely agree here, whilst we have world class high end lodges we need a few 5 star properties
in Auckland, Wellington, Bay of Islands and Queenstown.

Add the Coromandel Peninsular to that. It is unfortunately very uncommon to see asian tourists in that area. Maybe some high quality accommodation would help. And better roads.

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 25):
CS100 in NZ colours, anyone?

Virgin Australia colours maybe? Given that they are removing the 737-700s and don't seem to have an aversion to operating plenty of subfleets, I don't see it as being outside the realms of possibility. Maybe when its time to replace those E190s, they could get a few CS100s and CS300s.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 35):
Now the 789 has taken its first flight, I wonder how long it'll take before Boeing brings it down here for NZ to have a look at.

Function and Reliability testing, maybe? The sooner the better.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 35):
I wish it was to be delivered in teal..

+ 1

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 45):
''Air NZ Dreamliner could mean cheaper fares''

Airfares will be set at a level as high as the market will bear, regardless of the aircraft that flys the route. Still nothing like building a bit of hype about a new aircraft type ahead of its (eventual entry into service).

I wonder if Air New Zealand will have a special flight when the 787 finally enters service. I'd buy a seat or two.
First to fly the 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE (2014-10-09, NZ103)
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Part 134

Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:21 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 48):

Add the Coromandel Peninsular to that. It is unfortunately very uncommon to see asian tourists in that area. Maybe some high quality accommodation would help. And better roads.

Nah, some places have to be left for New Zealanders... Coromandel is where Northern kiwis go to relax

Though I agree there needs to be more 5 star hotels in most places, there also needs to be a higher standard of "service" across the board in NZ.. a lot of the service you receive here is not what I'd expect in a roadside diner in Cousinfuck, Arkansas let alone the civilised world, and they seemingly have no idea how to react if for example you send a dish back because it isn't good enough, or the coffee is sour. Food and drink is expensive here, so you do expect a certain standard. Casual, yet expensive service doesn't engraciate with many tourists.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 45):
''Air NZ Dreamliner could mean cheaper fares''

LOL...latest tui ad right there... unless they have gone 10 abreast on the 789 too.. 
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 46):
They said the A380 was going to mean cheaper fares too. NZ to Europe is still $2000.

maybe on CI via BNE-TPE-BKK but not on anyone else (outside of the current early bird sales). I looked for the end of this month a month ago, and they were asking far more than that even to fly CZ/EK. SQ was about $3200 - didn't look at NZ but would expect high 2s.

That is why I continue to create entertaining routings for myself, that only a plane spotter would be interested in.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.

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