behramjee
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:56 am

Officially announced now by Lufthansa

Link: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/0...thansa-brief-idUKF9N0E500O20130919

Order is worth is US$ 19 billion for 34 B777-900s + 25 A350-900s
 
wilco737
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:59 am

Quoting behramjee (Thread starter):

That is good news. Excellent choice. Looking forward to welcome then in the fleet.

wilco737
  
 
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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:59 am

Lufthansa today announced its long-awaited wide-body order. The $19 billion deal will replace B747-400 and A340-300/A340-600 aircraft and looks as follows:

> 25x A350-900 aircraft with first delivery in 2016
> 34x B777-9 aircraft with first delivery in 2020

All aircraft should be delivered by 2025.

The (Boeing) order will be finalized after the formal launch of the 777X family later this year.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...aft-order-among-airbus-boeing.html

[Edited 2013-09-19 02:10:50]
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BobMUC
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:03 am

 
columba
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:11 am

2016 first A350-900

2020 first 777-9X

Seems that LH got early delivery slots by Airbus
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
scouseflyer
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:11 am

Interesting, launch customer for 779 then, shame no more A380 orders too though  
 
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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:17 am

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 5):
shame no more A380 orders too though

They also said to increase the A380 fleet to 19 frames, that means two more to come.
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scouseflyer
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:19 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 6):
They also said to increase the A380 fleet to 19 frames, that means two more to come.

Excellent, missed that  
 
Someone83
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:20 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 6):
They also said to increase the A380 fleet to 19 frames, that means two more to come.

I.e firming up the two A380 from earlier this year?
 
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zkojq
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:22 am


Can't wait to see an A350 in Lufthansa's livery. Both cgi shots look great.

[Edited 2013-09-19 02:23:41]
First to fly the 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE (2014-10-09, NZ103)
 
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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:22 am

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 8):
I.e firming up the two A380 from earlier this year?

Correct.

This will likely happen together with the A350s in the coming months.
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PanHAM
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:23 am

well, with the 2 A380s they replace exactly 24 343 24 346 and the remaining 13 744s
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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:24 am

Also from the press release, Lufthansa plans to operate the 777-9 and A350-900 in two-class and three-class configuration depending on market demand.
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817Dreamliiner
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:25 am

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 1):
That is good news. Excellent choice.

   Indeed. Both aircraft will look great in the LH livery.
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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:27 am

Lufthansa plans to phase out 13 oldest 747-400s and 17 A340-300s as it takes 777-9X and A350-900. Growth flexible between 1% and 5% annually.

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N14AZ
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:27 am

Congratulations to LH, B and A. I love mixed orders - less internet traffic for useless comments and less work for the moderators...  

What a pitty they don't have this special livery anymore. Would be nice to (finally) see the 777 mentioned on the fuselage as well.


View Large View Medium
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wilco737
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:29 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 12):
Also from the press release, Lufthansa plans to operate the 777-9 and A350-900 in two-class and three-class configuration depending on market demand.

Same as the older 744's which will get 2 class as well.

Let's see what changes until then. During my 12 years at LH I learnt that things changed quite often until it is final  

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columba
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:30 am

Interesting to see the gap of 250-300 seats. Also glad to see the 747-8I will stay for a little while
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
RedChili
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:32 am

Based on hte graphic provided by KarelXWB in reply 14, it seems that the 359 could be replacing the 77E and 763 with OS, plus the 343 with LX.
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sturmovik
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:35 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 20):

And 777-9 renders too:

Wow! those look incredibly realistic, thanks for posting!

Great to see this mixed order, kinda sad to see the writing on the wall for quads..
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BlueSky1976
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:38 am

I guess we all know now why A350 won against 787-10: most likely due to earlier availability offered by Airbus. I highly doubt this order is "political".
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IndianicWorld
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:39 am

Interesting order.

Both planes look great, but damn the B778 looks too big for its engines  
 
na
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:39 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):
well, with the 2 A380s they replace exactly 24 343 24 346 and the remaining 13 744s

You forgot that the 777s and naturally the old 767s of AUA will also be axed according to the fleet plan. So its quite clear to me AUA will receive some of the A350s.

Congratulations. Thats quite a stunning streamlining of the fleet. Seems by 2025, just like now, LH will have the best fleet worldwide. But I expect one major change until then, as the A330s will be on the way out in 10 years time, which leaves the door open for the 787-9 which I would love to see in the LH fleet.
Nice that they add two A380s as well, but the sad part is that its now rather unlikely that other than the possibility of a handful of add-ons the 748I-options wont be converted.
Saddest part though is the 777X will be 10-abreast, so economy-passengers beware what type you are choosing for your flight in the future!

[Edited 2013-09-19 02:42:12]
 
sandrozrh
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:41 am

I dont want to speculate, but still I wonder wether it is coincidence that LX's CEO Hohmeister was a pax on the last FRA-ZRH flight yesterday evening.

Anyway, congrats to all parties involved!
 
Aviaponcho
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:41 am

I miss the first question of the Q&A session concerning the options
Did anyone catch it ?
 
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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:42 am

Quoting columba (Reply 17):
Also glad to see the 747-8I will stay for a little while

Indeed, that was just speculation by other people. No way Lufthansa would retire those 748s within 10 years after purchase.

Anyway, Lufthansa has a complete website dedicated to this order. Check it out:

http://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/themen/fleet-development.html

Quote:
59 ultra-modern aircraft – 34 Boeing 777-9Xs and 25 Airbus A350-900s – will be added to the Lufthansa Group's wide-body fleet. The first of these new aircraft will be delivered as early as 2016. Older Boeing 747-400s and Airbus A340-300s will be phased out by 2025. The new aeroplanes will primarily serve to replace existing aircraft at Lufthansa.

The investment amount for the Lufthansa Group's latest order totals EUR 14bn at list prices and is the largest single private-sector investment in the history of German industry. "This investment will safeguard about 13,000 jobs at Lufthansa alone as well as thousands of jobs at our partners in aviation and other suppliers", said Christoph Franz, Chairman of the Executive Board and CEO of the Lufthansa Group, explaining the macroeconomic significance of the investment at a press conference in Frankfurt.

This investment in new technology, efficiency and customer comfort is a continuation of the ongoing fleet modernisation that is taking place at the Group's airlines. Lufthansa operates a wide-body fleet of around 107 aircraft, among them ten ultra-modern Airbus A380s and nine Boeing 747-8s as well as the Airbus A330-300 (18 aircraft). The fleet also includes Airbus A340s (48) and Boeing 747-400s (22). In addition to these, the Group subsidiary Swiss has 31 wide-body aeroplanes, while Austrian Airlines' wide-body fleet consists of 12 aircraft.

The aim is to reduce the number of different models and fleet complexity in the Passenger Airline Group segment and also replace existing aircraft with state-of-the-art aeroplanes. Following the aircraft order already placed in March of this year, the Group currently has a total of 295 brand-new aircraft on order with a list value of EUR 36bn. These should be delivered by 2025.
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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:44 am

Quoting aviaponcho (Reply 24):
I miss the first question of the Q&A session concerning the options

I have: Lufthansa 777-9X order can go up to 64, A350-900 up to 55 if all options and purchase rights are converted.
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spink
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:46 am

Quoting aviaponcho (Reply 24):
I miss the first question of the Q&A session concerning the options
Did anyone catch it ?

34 779 + 7 options + enough purchase rights for 64 total planes
25 359 + 15 options + enough purchase rights for ~55ish total planes.

[Edited 2013-09-19 02:47:16]
 
columba
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:53 am

787-9 considered was considered as being too small, the 787-10 was excluded because it has not enough range for Lufthansa.

[Edited 2013-09-19 02:55:06]
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
wilco737
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:54 am

And here the Boeing statement on the Boeing order:

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=20295&item=128804

I am quite please to finally see the 777 at LH. LH Cargo makes the beginning and then the new 777 will join LH.

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ap305
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:55 am

A great order for LH securing it's future widebody fleet. Good day for both Airbus and Boeing.Airbus leaving the 400 seat market to Boeing will last for how long I wonder?. Once EK puts in for a few hundred 777x, perhaps Airbus will wake up. I suspect the response will be a all new, all cfrp twin rather than a a350 stretch but this may also cannibalize the a388.

[Edited 2013-09-19 02:58:28]
 
AirbusA6
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:55 am

An impressive order, you suspect that a lot of airlines will be ordering and operating mixed widebody fleets going forward, as each plane (787, A350, 777-9) seems to have its own sweet spot
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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:57 am

http://www.lufthansagroup.com/uploads/tx_templavoila/5T1SK0_DLH_777X_Air_Right_PS_01C_01.jpg

http://www.lufthansagroup.com/uploads/tx_templavoila/Y5JQHT_DLH_777X_PS_01B_01.jpg

http://www.lufthansagroup.com/uploads/tx_templavoila/ODU6G3_7779X_Lufthansa_Engine_Nose_PS_01A_01.jpg

http://www.lufthansagroup.com/uploads/tx_templavoila/A350-900_RR_DLH_V04_01.jpg

http://www.lufthansagroup.com/uploads/tx_templavoila/A350-900_RR_DLH_V10_01.jpg

http://www.lufthansagroup.com/uploads/tx_templavoila/A350-900_RR_DLH_V15_01.jpg

The source of these pictures is http://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/themen/fleet-development.html

[Edited 2013-09-19 02:58:29 by wilco737]
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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:58 am

Quoting ap305 (Reply 30):
Airbus leaving the 400 seat market to Boeing will last for how long I wonder?. Once EK puts in for a few hundred 777x, perhaps Airbus will wake up. I suspect the response will be a all new, all cfrp twin rather than a a350 stretch but this may also cannibalize the a388.

Airbus can take the 350 seat market for themselves.
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na
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:58 am

Quoting spink (Reply 27):
34 779 + 7 options + enough purchase rights for 64 total planes
25 359 + 15 options + enough purchase rights for ~55ish total planes.

In todays order there is no room for expansion yet, only with these purchase rights they can expand and for example replace Swiss 77Ws after 2025 which seems very logical to me as I doubt that Swiss would accept to fly an inferior plane to LH for more than a few years. They can also replace all the A330s in the group, and maybe even the 748i after 2030. But before all that I think that LH will place a sizable A380 order once Airbus is offering a modernized version around the end of this decade which will better the A350/77X economics.

[Edited 2013-09-19 02:59:53]
 
Airboe
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:01 am

What about the 748:
Please correct me if I'am wrong - but originally 20 orders and 20 purchase rights. Then 1 was cancelled: it stands now at 19 orders and 20 purchase rights(?): is this correct?

But a word about the purchase right, - I guess they will be shelved...



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anfromme
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:03 am

As a short throwback to the thread about the LH order rumour where some people speculated that, if Boeing got a large/larger share, LH wouldn't announce the order before the general elections (which take place this Sunday)...
a) They still did announce the order before the general elections
b) As PanHAM and others (myself included) predicted, the fact that the larger part of the order goes to a US-based manufacturer does not even register with the public.

Interestingly, Lufthansa themselves do emphasise that, due to the globalised supply chains of Airbus and Boeing, every single 777X and every single A350 will provide as many jobs in Germany as a medium-sized enterprise.

By the way - it seems Franz isn't leaving until summer 2014, so it was still him that announced the order during the press conference, i.e. the speculation about the order being delayed because of the handover to his successor happening was obviously irrelevant  
42
 
icebird757
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:04 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 14):

Anyone else notice that there is no Austrian Airlines on the chart for 2025?
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BobMUC
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:05 am

 
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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:06 am

Quoting columba (Reply 28):
787-9 considered was considered as being too small, the 787-10 was excluded because it has not enough range for Lufthansa.

Just as expected, this is in line with the numbers people calculated here in the previous thread.

[Edited 2013-09-19 03:06:42]
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anfromme
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:09 am

Quoting icebird757 (Reply 37):
Anyone else notice that there is no Austrian Airlines on the chart for 2025?

Yup - but then again, their current widebody types are up for replacement, while the new types coming in (777X and A350) are only shown in manufacturer livery, i.e. I would assume they'll get distributed across LH group as fits the business for AUA, LH and Swiss.


Interesting to note by the way that, given an assumed launch of the 777X later this year and first deliveries in 2020, Boeing is scheduling as much time for 777X development as Airbus had originally scheduled for the A350.
42
 
B777LRF
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:11 am

As per the statement from LH themselves,

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 25):
The new aeroplanes will primarily serve to replace existing aircraft at Lufthansa.


Think it is safe to say we should expect addtional LH Group orders for LX, SN and OS. The 787 may still have a role to play with either of those carriers.
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Airboe
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:11 am

Quoting bobmuc (Reply 38):
Slides from the press conference:
http://www.lufthansagroup.com/filead...g.pdf

On page 3: how it should be interpreted: 748: 15 frames from 2013-2025: total order for 15 - or 15 frames more than now?


????


KR/
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BobMUC
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:12 am

 
spink
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:14 am

Quoting icebird757 (Reply 37):

Anyone else notice that there is no Austrian Airlines on the chart for 2025?

neither the 359 nor 779 tails had airline logos. Both were manufacturer tails, so I wouldn't read anything into that. Likely the Austrian Airlines will operate 359s as part of the order.
 
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KarelXWB
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:16 am

Lufthansa exec also says deal allows some flexibility to take A350-1000 instead of A350-900s.

Quote:
Lufthansa also has the flexibility to convert some of the order to the larger A350-1000.
http://twitter.com/ReutersAero/status/380635237127958528
http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...ustomer-commits-to-up-to-55-a350s/

Quoting bobmuc (Reply 38):
Slides from the press conference:

Few interesting points from that presentation:

> 744 will be replaced by 748 and 779
> A346 will be replaced by 779 and A359
> A343 will be replaced by A359
> 777-9 fuel burn per passenger of 2.9 L per 100km
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TP313
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:17 am

Quoting anfromme (Reply 36):
if Boeing got a large/larger share, LH wouldn't announce the order before the general elections (which take place this Sunday)...

Sorry, but I have to put things straight here:
a) What I said was my opinion and was stated as my opinion, not as a rumour.
b) What I said was that if the order was announced after the election day, it could be an indication that it would be single sourced to Boeing, and not an Airbus or a mixed order.
If you want feel free to check what I wrote in the respective thread.
I would like to kindly ask you to refrain from distorting my words or intentions in this forum if you please.
 
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BobMUC
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:17 am

Quoting airboe (Reply 42):
On page 3: how it should be interpreted: 748: 15 frames from 2013-2025: total order for 15 - or 15 frames more than now?

This slide shows only the number of planned deliveries! Not orders!

How many 748 has LH received in 2012?
 
Flying-Tiger
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:19 am

Interesting enough the selection of the B777-900X leaves room "downwards" for the -800X, and the A350-900 leaves room "upwards" for the -1000 (and downwards for the -800). Gives me the feeling that there will be a decision between the 777-800X and A350-1000 at one point in future depending on the performance of the twins.

Anyway, interesting and good decision IMO.
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Lufthansa Orders 34 B779s + 25 A359s Part 1

Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:20 am

Quoting bobmuc (Reply 47):
How many 748 has LH received in 2012?

Four, and five this year.
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