ORD2010
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What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:28 pm

Hello everyone! This is my first post on Airliners and I'm so excited to be on here!

ORD is in my opinion hands down the best airport in the world, It has had a fantastic 2012 with new carriers and returning ones: Austrian, Airberlin, Qatar, Hainan and new routes from Shannon to Dusseldorf to name a few from its two home carriers, as well as newly announced Edinburgh from 2014 by UA. But what is next? Has ORD reached its peak destination wise? I know EK has been beating around the ORD bush for years now (even filing to begin W13 service and then withdrawing). Will they ever finally decide to come? They complain about competition, but does it really have that much at ORD with the name EK carries? Look at QR, their ORD service wasn't meant to be daily and on a 787, and not too far in they kept the 773 and went daily. Hainan is going Daily next year (more than they originally had planned the route with, 4x's weekly) and that was announced days after its first flight! So what is next? will we see the Star Alliance carriers of Asia jump in there, rumor is BR is looking into it. With a second 773 from ANA coming in daily and OZ going daily for a time this summer (I suspect equipment shortage due to SFO isn't allowing the daily to stick around). Where will the asian market come from next? South America is a very underserved area from ORD, while more logical for airlines to fly these routes from southern hubs, do people from the midwest really want to connect in Texas or Florida? Africa, with the 788 could we maybe see Royal Air Maroc and ET go for a couple of weekly flights into ORD. Will we ever see OSL/LIS/BCN flights and the return of MXP? T5 is set to be ready from its renovations soon this year, but T5 is jam packed, will a new international terminal be coming at last? A new car rental and parking facility has been approved and began construction off site and will have connections via the airport tram. The runways are coming in well and the south tower began construction, they are gearing up to make this the most efficient and important hub in the US with pax numbers up and international tourism in Chicago as a whole up. My outlook is:

EK finally launches daily 773 service to DXB

9W launches daily connections to India via AUH (already rumored) with a 773

BR goes 5x weekly to TPE with a 777

one of the Russian carriers returns, I think SU with a 773 4-5xs weekly (very large russian population here over 400k.)

JJ launches daily GRU (most likely) or GIG 773 with a JV with AA now that they will be OW soon.

ET 2xs weekly to ADD 788.

maybe a 380 upgrade from EY, BA, LH or KE soon? It's about time.

What do you guys think is next for ORD? Sorry for any mistakes in the post!
 
finnishway
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:40 pm

A380 & ORD has been discussed before. A few years ago ORD wasn't "A380 ready" and I don't know if it still is. It has also been discussed that BA or LH would be most likely carriers to operate the superjumbo to ORD.
 
ORD2010
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:52 pm

It is set to be 380 ready soon with the new taxi ways and runways, but with LH planning the 748i for its ORD route will the 380 ever jump in? I believe BA downgraded one of its dailies to a 772 instead of twice daily 744's. Do you think EY would ever bring it to ORD? Sorry if this has been covered, but I wanted to add it into there.
 
AABB777
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:18 pm

Regarding QR service to ORD, the flight was meant to launch daily and with a 777 from day one. However, because of aircraft availability the ORD flight started at 3x weekly before going daily in mid-June. A 787 was never going to operate ORD as QR 787's lack crew rest facilities for ULH flights (USA).
 
ORD2010
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:23 pm

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 3):
Regarding QR service to ORD, the flight was meant to launch daily and with a 777 from day one. However, because of aircraft availability the ORD flight started at 3x weekly before going daily in mid-June. A 787 was never going to operate ORD as QR 787's lack crew rest facilities for ULH flights (USA).


Sorry about that, I can't remember where I read that it was meant to be a 787, it seemed a bit off to me but it makes sense that it wasn't true. Does anyone know what the loads are like for QR? as well as TK (CEO did say he wanted to launch a second daily ORD)
 
jcwr56
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:23 pm

Alot of what you've written has already been touched upon and it will still be some time before we see the A380 into ORD. It's now strictly a facilities issue after 10/28C opens up next month. LH will start their 748i on LH430 eff. 27OCT.

With Chicago's goal to be a top 5 destination city for international travelers within the U.S by 2020 (currently 9th). The city continues to be very active seeking out carriers to start and expand service.

Looking at S14 June, July and August to S13 same period. As of now, there will be an additional 22 flights per week based on current airlines operating only. Will we see more, probably. How many, that remains to be seen.

[Edited 2013-09-20 08:25:12]
 
stlgph
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:29 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 5):
With Chicago's goal to be a top 5 destination city for international travelers within the U.S by 2020 (currently 9th). The city continues to be very active seeking out carriers to start and expand service.

That international terminal is going to need a little love, first.


On another note, when it comes to ORD, always nice to see a little love from hometown carrier, United.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
apodino
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:39 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 5):
Alot of what you've written has already been touched upon and it will still be some time before we see the A380 into ORD. It's now strictly a facilities issue after 10/28C opens up next month. LH will start their 748i on LH430 eff. 27OCT

Thats great news, and that runway will help a lot as it will allow 10L-28R to be a strictly departures runway and not have to wait for landing traffic. My question is, what is the timeline on 10R-28L, which is also under construction, and then the construction timeline for 9C-27C? after which the 14-32's will be decommissioned.
 
ORD2010
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:49 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 6):
That international terminal is going to need a little love, first.


On another note, when it comes to ORD, always nice to see a little love from hometown carrier, United.


T5 is set to finish its renovation this fall with many new stores and restaurants making it far better than before and a walk through duty free like those in Europe. But space is tight in there especially in the peak hours, new gates or a remote concourse have to be added soon, not later. I agree, it is nice to finally see UA and AA paying some more attention to ORD.

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 5):

Alot of what you've written has already been touched upon and it will still be some time before we see the A380 into ORD. It's now strictly a facilities issue after 10/28C opens up next month. LH will start their 748i on LH430 eff. 27OCT.

With Chicago's goal to be a top 5 destination city for international travelers within the U.S by 2020 (currently 9th). The city continues to be very active seeking out carriers to start and expand service.

Looking at S14 June, July and August to S13 same period. As of now, there will be an additional 22 flights per week based on current airlines operating only. Will we see more, probably. How many, that remains to be seen.

Wasn't aware that the 748i was finally scheduled in there, it is great news for ORD and LH. I have read about the 2020 plan and it is great, this year alone the number of international tourist rose for Chicago compared to last years international numbers, mainly from Asia. Could we see another Chinese carrier step in? What are the 22 additional compared to this summer, flights and carriers if you don't mind? I know ORD is closing the gap on ATL slowly. Exciting times at ORD. Any new carriers? I know El Al wants to return.
 
stlgph
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:22 pm

Quoting ORD2010 (Reply 8):

It'll be interesting to see how that pans out - expand T5 or there could be a totally "off the cuff" idea of building a smaller terminal catering to flights from RJ's up to 757's, leaving the T5 gates to the widebodies.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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adamh8297
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:28 pm

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
ORD is in my opinion hands down the best airport in the world,

May want to revisit this statement if you ever get a chance to fly into SIN or AMS.

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 5):
With Chicago's goal to be a top 5 destination city for international travelers within the U.S by 2020 (currently 9th).

Isn't CHI 5th for International O+D behind NYC, MIA/FLL, LA Basin and Bay Area?
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN
 
ORD2010
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:49 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 10):

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
ORD is in my opinion hands down the best airport in the world,

May want to revisit this statement if you ever get a chance to fly into SIN or AMS.

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 5):
With Chicago's goal to be a top 5 destination city for international travelers within the U.S by 2020 (currently 9th).

Isn't CHI 5th for International O+D behind NYC, MIA/FLL, LA Basin and Bay Area?

Having flown into many international airports around the globe, to me ORD remains #1 for its hubs, carriers, markets served, history, and design (not very efficient, but I do enjoy its architecture in a historical and beautiful way.) IF we look at airport design and such on its own DUS is my favorite. Traffic wise ORD is the 4th largest international gateway behind NYC, LAX, MIA. but they mean to get it to number 5 in total tourism count, so making it the 5th most visited city in the US, not just stopped by. in those Terms by pax traffic i believe it's #2 behind ATL.
 
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Acey559
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:50 pm

Not service related but we just received an email stating 10C/28C will officially be open for business on October 17th. 10,801x200ft.
 
jayunited
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:03 pm

Quoting ORD2010 (Reply 2):
It is set to be 380 ready soon with the new taxi ways and runways, but with LH planning the 748i for its ORD route will the 380 ever jump in? I believe BA downgraded one of its dailies to a 772 instead of twice daily 744's. Do you think EY would ever bring it to ORD? Sorry if this has been covered, but I wanted to add it into there.

Correct soon with the new taxi ways and runways the airfield will be ready for the A380 but I wonder is T5 ready for the A380? There is not a single gate at T5 equipped with double jet bridges, and with the A380's wing span T5 would be forced to close an adjacent gate or close one of the entrance/exit ramps to/from the bag room if they parked the plane at M7, M12, M13 due to the wing span. So although the airfield will be ready to handle the A380 the international terminal is not ready at this time. Hopefully we will see that change in the coming years.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
The runways are coming in well and the south tower began construction, they are gearing up to make this the most efficient and important hub in the US with pax numbers up and international tourism in Chicago as a whole up. My outlook is:

I would agree with you but the storms we have had over the past week or so has shown that ORD is still not where we should be especially when it comes to T5. Just this past week we had A330's/ and 772ER and 77W sitting in penalty boxes for 45 minutes waiting for a gate at the international terminal due to late morning and early afternoon storms that delayed international arrivals and departures. So by the time the 230pm - 4pm arrivals landed there were very few 777/747/A330 gates available at T5 and this problem occurs every time we get late morning or early afternoon storms. By the time those mid afternoon flights start arriving even if the storms have cleared out T5 is in shambles with flights forced to wait up to 45 minutes for a gate sometimes longer. So there is still much work that must be done before ORD becomes efficient and if nothing is done to T5 the problem will only get worse when AA and UA start the retirement of their 763 fleets. Although T5 has 21 gates during the afternoon only 19 of those gates can be used M6 and M14 are not used due to clearance issues, also if you take away M18 (because it is a narrow body gate only) you have 18 useable gates. The next problem is M1, M2, M20,M21 can accommodate planes up to the 767 anything larger and it can not be parked at those 4 gates. This leaves only 14 gate available for the larger aircraft. I know there has been talk about expanding and reconfiguring T5 well the city needs to get on it because in its current state T5 is not ready for the future.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
JJ launches daily GRU (most likely) or GIG 773 with a JV with AA now that they will be OW soon.

What would be the purpose of this flight with AA launching ORD-GRU soon? ORD-GRU is not a huge O&D market while UA does see quite a bit of O&D traffic most of the traffic on this route is connecting traffic from the West Coast or Asia. I don't think the market can support 3 flights a day between ORD and GRU. And there most certainly is not a viable market for daily service between ORD and GIG on a 773.

And as far as Russia goes AA tried nonstop service to Moscow a few years ago and it didn't work out so I don't see nonstop flights to Russia coming back either on an US carrier or a Russian carrier but I could be wrong about Russia.
 
ORD2010
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:27 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 14):
What would be the purpose of this flight with AA launching ORD-GRU soon? ORD-GRU is not a huge O&D market while UA does see quite a bit of O&D traffic most of the traffic on this route is connecting traffic from the West Coast or Asia. I don't think the market can support 3 flights a day between ORD and GRU. And there most certainly is not a viable market for daily service between ORD and GIG on a 773.

And as far as Russia goes AA tried nonstop service to Moscow a few years ago and it didn't work out so I don't see nonstop flights to Russia coming back either on an US carrier or a Russian carrier but I could be wrong about Russia.

I think at this point, using land surrounding the T5 area to build a new maybe remote concourse with at least 6 gates, 2 of them 380 capable, and expanding the immigration/customs area would be key. If not maybe a new terminal as a whole, what ever they do it cannot interfere with the current T5 operations, with AA removing all of its 757's to be replaced by 767's at ORD, UA bringing back the 744's and I'm sure soon many 787's space is going to be tight!

AA was denied rights to operate ORD-GRU when it applied, so I meant JJ would operate it in place of AA, which might ease permits and benefit both carriers in a JV being OW hub on both sides. GIG could maybe work with UA on a 767. I think soon we could see BOG (Colombian officials visited the airport to talk about business last week) maybe LIM.

As for Russia, I do believe the market didn't work then, but maybe now we could see it make a come back with a higher Russian population, ideal would be a 787 5x's weekly I'd say to Moscow.

How about Singapore? could a 788/9 fly this route? more importantly could it make it work?
 
jcwr56
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:06 pm

Jay,

M1, 2, 3, 20 and 21 can handle up to an M11. M1 and 2 can be used as a 2 for 1 (it's not marked but the plans are there) 330, 340 or 772, yes it can fit. It's already being addressed with UA and AA about the 767 replacements.

I think the biggest issue with storms isn't as much as diversions for international flights, as it's the closure of the ramps when the passive lightning systems kick on. Everyone gets pulled off and we still have those long haul flights arriving.
Not much anyone can do.

Another issue is getting the planes off within the alloted time. For August, the average gate pull delay was 20 minutes. So far for September it's running 26 minutes. Those minutes add up when you have flights holding. Theres options being started as a short term fix while a longer term view is being pursued.

T5 is getting a lot of attention and there's more work being planned both with upgrades and facilities to address some of the points you've brought up.

Just was posted on the Tribunes site.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...for-ohare-20130920,0,1667451.story






.

[Edited 2013-09-20 11:19:54]
 
ORD2010
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:12 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 16):
T5 is getting a lot of attention and there's more work being planned both with upgrades and facilities to address some of the points you've brought up.

what are these plans, if you know, that they are going to be addressing, It's about time we see some work at T5 when i was at T3 some months ago watching 5 there was a lot of movement and foreign tails there, and some on the remote stands, I think a major re-haul of many of the gates to add more spacing to allow larger planes is what should be done, leave a small amount of gates on the side for the mexico, central america, caribbean narrow body internationals. I think just 3 gates right now would be a huge help for all of this. Now isn't the master plan of 6 parallels really to prevent all these issues with weather related delays and issues? I'm honestly surprised how long the ORD airport staff has taken so long to get plans for an a380 gate knowing some carriers want to operate it there, and it is crucial for future growth, as much as I prefer the 747 over the 380, they must prepare.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:26 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 10):
Isn't CHI 5th for International O+D behind NYC, MIA/FLL, LA Basin and Bay Area?

That is correct.

I have to wonder how the slowing of international immigration into Chicago is going to affect its O&D numbers. Chicago is way down from 10 years ago in number of international immigrants per year. It will be up to the globalization of Chicago's economy to keep it going.
It is what it is...
 
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United787
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:38 pm

What ORD needs for more international traffic is for Star Alliance/UA and One World/AA to have international arrivals and departures happen at a new T2 for easier connections. T5 can remain SkyTeam and non-aligned international flights and then a new terminal for SkyTeam and non-aligned domestic flights. Or something like this - it needs more gates and that will only come with a new terminal...

Agreed...and no one has a solution for it...  Not to sound cold but the problem on an international level is really a PR problem more than anything else...but I am sure people choose not to come Chicago because of the perception. But the reality is that the high crime areas are fairly concentrated in the south and west neighborhoods of the City, areas that business travelers and tourists will never see. I live in the City (near north side), and although I find the situation sad and hopeless, it is something most Chicagoans don't experience first hand.

[Edited 2013-09-21 09:16:21 by SA7700]
 
ORD2010
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:40 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 19):
That is correct.

I have to wonder how the slowing of international immigration into Chicago is going to affect its O&D numbers. Chicago is way down from 10 years ago in number of international immigrants per year. It will be up to the globalization of Chicago's economy to keep it going.

It is however on the rise. International numbers are rising briskly and it is visible with the amount of new international carriers and new routes by already serving carriers at the airport. Like I said there is a rising amount of foreign tourist coming to the are. Reading a time magazine article, the midwest saw the largest job growth in the recent years due to hard industry. And compared to the days AA was cutting international flights left and right now they're adding along with UA. ORD is on a comeback.
 
VTORD
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:20 pm

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
9W launches daily connections to India via AUH (already rumored) with a 773

So far I have read only one article from India reporting that 9W is planning BLR-AUH-ORD (scissor hub moving to AUH from BRU). Very likely a change from EY metal to 9W metal or EY might use 9W as a feeder to their current flight from BLR. I don't see a market for both at the same time..........with QR, RJ and AI in the mix.
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ORD2010
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:33 pm

Quoting VTORD (Reply 26):
So far I have read only one article from India reporting that 9W is planning BLR-AUH-ORD (scissor hub moving to AUH from BRU). Very likely a change from EY metal to 9W metal or EY might use 9W as a feeder to their current flight from BLR. I don't see a market for both at the same time..........with QR, RJ and AI in the mix.

I think the 9W connection would fly into ORD with their equipment and EY continuing their daily 773 the market is there, TK wants to go twice daily, I think they are both trying to keep EK out on purpose.
 
CcrlR
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:27 pm

Quoting finnishway (Reply 1):
A380 & ORD has been discussed before. A few years ago ORD wasn't "A380 ready" and I don't know if it still is. It has also been discussed that BA or LH would be most likely carriers to operate the superjumbo to ORD.
Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 5):
Alot of what you've written has already been touched upon and it will still be some time before we see the A380 into ORD. It's now strictly a facilities issue after 10/28C opens up next month. LH will start their 748i on LH430 eff. 27OCT.

The 747-8 is the largest aircraft besides the 773 that ORD can handle. That one day a few years ago when Airbus brought in the A380 for LH, there were problems with maneuverability and parking the aircraft. It needs to have its own route from the runway to the terminal and vice-versa. It's a maneuverability issue for widebodies, they have guidelines now in place for large aircraft taxiing near the terminals. After the Eva Air 744 MQ EMB-140 collision last May they don't want that happening again. Even vehicles that drive on the service roads near taxiways have to be careful in certain areas

That will not keep tourists from comming here. Every city has this issue but that does not keep tourists from visiting Chicago.

[Edited 2013-09-21 09:15:44 by SA7700]
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
ORDTLV2414
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:30 pm

Chicago has a crime problem like any other city. I think next for ORD is south America and TLV. We need International arrivals at T3 or T1 in order relieve congestion at T5.
 
luckyone
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:39 pm

Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 32):
We need International arrivals at T3 or T1 in order relieve congestion at T5.

True story. And it was needed yesterday.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:47 pm

Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 32):
I think next for ORD is south America and TLV.

TLV perhaps. Im not sold on more ORD-South America expansion.

ORD-South America has one large O&D market, GRU. Everything else is much smaller.

If were talking the next international carrier to ORD, I would vote for BR.
It is what it is...
 
FWAERJ
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:28 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 29):
If were talking the next international carrier to ORD, I would vote for BR.

BR before EK? I don't believe it. EK has been talking about ORD for over a decade (seriously), and hinted at ORD as one of the next three US destinations along with BOS (announced) and MIA recently.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 28):
Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 32):
We need International arrivals at T3 or T1 in order relieve congestion at T5.

True story. And it was needed yesterday.

  

In an ideal world, I see a big Star Alliance consolidated west terminal with an FIS, T5 becoming a oneworld international terminal with a post-security tram or DEN/LGW-style walkway from T3 to T5, T2 being the new Eagle terminal with a major renovation, and T1 being converted into a SkyTeam, LCC, and nonaligned carrier terminal with a FIS on B.

All ORD gate leases expire in 2017 - there is hope.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
ORD2010
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:53 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 30):
BR before EK? I don't believe it. EK has been talking about ORD for over a decade (seriously), and hinted at ORD as one of the next three US destinations along with BOS (announced) and MIA recently.

Well EK has been hinting so long yet hasn't bit the bullet so I expect another year before we see a more solid rumor on their part, if there is one thing in the aviation industry that baffles me is why EK never got into ORD earlier and why they're waiting so long now. I definitely see EL returning next year, 9W starting along with EY, BR announcing, PIA trying to make a come back, more minor EU cities from AA and UA, maybe OSL with norwegian air shuttle on a 788 3xs weekly. Anyone know why TAP has never done ORD-LIS seasonally on a 330? I could see TK begin that second daily in further efforts to push out EK. maybe new opportunities from AI, ET with the 788? And lastly, EK announcing they definitely want to serve ORD, just not yet...

T5 can be expanded to its right which would reduce the cost and hassle of connecting a whole new terminal complex to the existing one, which would be able to meet all future growth, once the new terminal can begin opening in stages, I'd close select gates at the current one to convert for wider aircrafts and in one of the now two add 3 double gateways. then to handle the domestic growth expand 3 into that parcel of land in between the taxi way and airport access road. Thats a good fix for now to build upon the current layout and terminal complex without having to venture out into a whole new area with different access roads. I would also put a CTA transportation stop under the new international terminal much how LHR has a tube stop at T5 and T3. Now as to the moving of carriers at terminals, I don't know if the US carriers would want to bring all their affiliates to their buildings, although I don't see why not. Here is a horrendous drawing of what it'd be like:

ORD
 
jayunited
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:48 am

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 16):
M1, 2, 3, 20 and 21 can handle up to an M11. M1 and 2 can be used as a 2 for 1 (it's not marked but the plans are there) 330, 340 or 772, yes it can fit. It's already being addressed with UA and AA about the 767 replacements.

If you want to split hairs we can I know M1,2, 20 and 21 can accommodate a MD11 I've seen MD11's parked at those gates, but when was the last time a MD11 passenger flight arrived at T5? This is why I said the largest aircraft those gates can handle is a 767.

And although plans have been in the works to update and expand T5 when will those plans be implemented? What we are seeing and experiencing right now at T5 is real problems even on clear sunny days T5 barely scrapes by with out a hiccup now throw in a storm and things go quickly down hill. Passengers should not be forced to wait on international arriving aircraft for 45 minutes or more because the terminal is not equipped to handle multiple A330's and 777 at a time. There have been days when M1,2 20 and 21 are empty and planes are forced to wait 45 minutes for a gate because they are to large to fit into any one of those four gates. I have heard about the plane to renovate and expand T5 my question is when will the city get down to business and make it happen the clock is ticking on the 763's.

Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 27):
Chicago has a crime problem like any other city. I think next for ORD is south America and TLV. We need International arrivals at T3 or T1 in order relieve congestion at T5.

I agree with your statement but where would the international arrivals area be located? At both terminal 1 and 3 the baggage room is located underground and at least at T1 the bag room is pretty massive, and right underneath the passenger areas at T1 is the baggage input belts so the international arrivals area for T1 can not be located directly under neither the passenger area either. Could they place the facility underneath the bag room other wise known as the sorter?

I know UA would like to have their own international arrivals area at T1 it would cut UA's ORD taxi fuel cost a lot but where would the facility be locate that remains the question and the problem that both UA and AA are faced with? If we remove both UA and AA operations completely from T5 that would open up a lot of gates for international airlines to use.
 
nomorerjs
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:24 am

RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:55 am

Someday BR, EK, and LY as new airlines. UA (express) will probably continue to add underserved cities in the US and Canada. Will be curious to see what AA does.

Eventually a 380 on BA, LH, EK, or KE. BA is going back to a 744 and 777 this winter, but this is a frequency route which throws a wrench into the equation.
 
LFutia
Posts: 3155
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 11:04 am

RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:51 am

I'd love to see KLM go daily double or atleast 2x a day on certain days of the week! DL is a big player here in Chicago and it wouldn't surprise me to see if we can handle more DL/KL connections.

ORD is a craphole when it comes to connecting especially INTL/DOM not one the best airports in the world! I live in the north suburbs and I honestly think ORD needs to be demolished and rebuilt. The signage is horrible and everything about it screams demolish me.

Leo/ORD
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
ORD2010
Topic Author
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:46 pm

RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:13 am

Quoting LFutia (Reply 34):

I'd love to see KLM go daily double or atleast 2x a day on certain days of the week! SA)">DL is a big player here in Chicago and it wouldn't surprise me to see if we can handle more SA)">DL/KL connections.

ORD is a craphole when it comes to connecting especially INTL/DOM not one the best airports in the world! I live in the north suburbs and I honestly think ORD needs to be demolished and rebuilt. The signage is horrible and everything about it screams demolish me.

Leo/ORD

I think now that T5 is finishing up its major remodel, ORD will focus on all the other terminal buildings, like I said they broke ground on a new consolidated parking and car rental center which will be connected to the terminals via the tram. I think connecting T5 to the other terminals beside the skytrain is key, maybe a very tall hall like in DEN? But ORD is old and does need a lot of love which it is getting slowly. Living in South Florida i travel through MIA a lot and let me tell you that is horrible, old mildew carpets, dark concourses with no food and bathrooms that are repulsive, ORD is a huge step up from this drab! But I think the next part of the modernization project is to tackle the terminals, I see ORD succeeding in the future with terminals just for ORD, I recall it isn't very considering the destinations served, but many skyteam carriers fly ORD successfully on simple O&D and no feed (KE, KL, AM) and some do need some help (AZ, AF). Do you know why AF could suddenly no longer fill anything more than a 330? I remember ORD used to be a 744 destination for them then 777 then 340 now 330 and DL 767 in winter (How is DL staffing this flight and doing?) I think if DL added a single international flight out of ORD it would rock the boat so hard AA and UA would really wake up and see the gold mine they have here! I think in time KL will go 2x daily 777, but in the near future I see daily 777 after the 744 retires since they operate 744 combi's that carry around the same load of pax as a 772. I could see ORD becoming an sky team focus city type like it is now. I think ORD is the only true full on bi-hub airport in the country, and adding some DL would be interesting. Alas I doubt that will happen since DL seems to be in a period of time where they are just flying and taking in money, no expansions or anything.

[Edited 2013-09-20 22:14:58]

[Edited 2013-09-20 22:16:05]

[Edited 2013-09-20 22:17:38]
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1047
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:25 am

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
ORD is in my opinion hands down the best airport in the world

WHAT?!!!?!??! You must be joking??

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
It has had a fantastic 2012 with new carriers and returning ones: Austrian, Airberlin, Qatar, Hainan and new routes from Shannon to Dusseldorf to name a few from its two home carriers, as well as newly announced Edinburgh from 2014 by UA.

Now this I agree with. However, keep in mind that other major U.S. airports like BOS, LAS, MIA, and SEA have also been doing extremely well in terms of getting new service from various domestic and foreign carriers during this same timeframe.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
what is next? Has ORD reached its peak destination wise?

Absolutely not. Whenever it seems there is nowhere else to go from ORD, the airlines surprise it with anything from tiny regional markets (ART, CHO, CMX, MHK, PAH, YKF, etc.) to interesting stuff much further afield (FAI, GUA, HEL, etc.). I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see anything start from BGR or MOT to BOG or OSL.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
I know EK has been beating around the ORD bush for years now (even filing to begin W13 service and then withdrawing). Will they ever finally decide to come? They complain about competition, but does it really have that much at ORD with the name EK carries?

EK will happen sooner or later. ORD, along with MIA and the recently announced BOS, is an integral part of their U.S. expansion strategy. Chicago is now one of the most iconic cities in the world missing from the EK route map, and I daresay Dubai may well be one of the most popular markets unserved nonstop from ORD today. Competition will be intense, especially because most Chicago travelers that fly internationally are extremely loyal to UA/Star Alliance or AA/oneworld, but EK should have no trouble getting the travelers that would take independent subcontinent carriers like AI and PK.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
Look at QR, their ORD service wasn't meant to be daily and on a 787, and not too far in they kept the 773 and went daily.

Don't forget that QR announced ORD before announcing their decision to join oneworld. With oneworld membership came access to AA's ORD hub feed and local FFer base, providing a significant boost to the service!

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
Hainan is going Daily next year (more than they originally had planned the route with, 4x's weekly) and that was announced days after its first flight!

Yes, but it appears that hinges on getting Chinese government approval to operate the 787 on the route (much easier to go daily with the 215 seat 787 than the 288 seat A346). Also, HU would never be a competitive option against the daily AA and UA services, so they have little choice but to do so in order to be attractive and successful.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
will we see the Star Alliance carriers of Asia jump in there, rumor is BR is looking into it. With a second 773 from ANA coming in daily and OZ going daily for a time this summer (I suspect equipment shortage due to SFO isn't allowing the daily to stick around). Where will the asian market come from next?

In terms of Asian Star Alliance carriers serving ORD:

BR is a possibility, but the U.S.-Taiwan market seems to be very limited beyond the big 3 U.S. Asian gateway markets (L.A., New York, and San Francisco). Even with Taiwanese citizens now enjoying hassle free access to the U.S. under the Visa Waiver Program, it doesn't seem like there has been a big explosion in demand. ORD-TPE would be an awfully long, thin route, and BR's TPE hub really doesn't offer Star Alliance pax anything that can't already be accessed one stop via ICN, NRT, or PEK. Perhaps BR could try a less than daily one stop service like TPE-NGO/KIX-ORD with UA codeshare, though.

CA clearly had no interest in ORD. Chinese authorities have a policy of giving CA first dibs on all international routes. CA could have gained exclusive Chinese rights to PEK-ORD, but they didn't bother and let HU start the route.

SQ already tried ORD and failed. Their lack of cooperation with UA would likely prove to be an insurmountable obstacle for any resumption of ORD service.

TG can't even figure out how to serve their sole U.S. gateway LAX, and didn't even try to keep New York after the nonstop A345 BKK-JFK service flopped. ORD probably isn't even on their radar.

As for new Asian carriers, the only one I see seriously considering ORD would be PR, and they are forbidden from adding any new U.S. services under Category 2 restrictions.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
South America is a very underserved area from ORD, while more logical for airlines to fly these routes from southern hubs, do people from the midwest really want to connect in Texas or Florida?

South America underserved? Both UA and AA tried nonstops to EZE without success. UA actually tried ORD-EZE several times, and even tagged MVD onto the ORD flights, but to no avail. If EZE doesn't work from ORD, its safe to say anything other than GRU in deep South America requiring the use of a widebody (i.e. GIG, SCL) is absolutely out of the question. Even with GRU, AA only recently showed any interest in serving it nonstop from ORD. Given that AA is so strong in the GRU market, I'm guessing that's because they doubt the ORD-GRU market can support anything beyond the current/established UA service.

Markets within narrowbody range of ORD might be less risky, but any niche there has probably now been filled by the new CM service (offering great access to all major South American markets via PTY). ORD just doesn't have much demand to South America, and the lack of existing services reflect that. There just aren't that many South Americans living in Chicago or areas logically accessed via ORD. People in the Midwest don't go to South America much, and those that do can easily connect via ATL, DFW, IAH, MEX, MIA, PTY, or even YYZ.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
Africa, with the 788 could we maybe see Royal Air Maroc and ET go for a couple of weekly flights into ORD.

Absolutely not. A few years ago South African announced an ORD service and loaded it for sale, only to cut it long before it ever began due to extremely poor advanced bookings. I just discussed the lack of demand for South America out of ORD, demand for African service from ORD is even worse.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
Will we ever see OSL/LIS/BCN flights and the return of MXP?

Certainly a possibility. These seem like good candidates for any future AA or UA transatlantic services out of ORD.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
T5 is set to be ready from its renovations soon this year, but T5 is jam packed, will a new international terminal be coming at last?

I have never found Terminal 5 to be jam packed, at least when compared to ORD's other terminals (which handle many of the international departures). I would think a Terminal 5 expansion or new domestic concourse (how about a Concourse A off of B?) would be more likely and sufficient than a wholly new terminal.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
A new car rental and parking facility has been approved and began construction off site and will have connections via the airport tram.

Where is this going to be? ORD's current rental car setup seems pretty par for the course when it comes to a major airport. A short bus ride, no big deal. The parking situation also seems very standard, an extremely expensive garage within walking distance of the terminal and remote lots with regular bus service...

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
The runways are coming in well and the south tower began construction, they are gearing up to make this the most efficient and important hub in the US with pax numbers up and international tourism in Chicago as a whole up.

Most efficient? What about Chicago's awful weather? Surely a warm dry hub like LAX or PHX is much more efficient. Most important? What about ATL? WN may be cutting back at ATL, but DL is busy upgauging all kinds of routes, and foreign carriers seem to be taking a great interest in that market. I'm glad to hear that Chicago's international tourism is up, but the city has a nasty reputation for gang violence and until we stop reading the tragic headlines, many people are going to steer clear of it. Here in Florida, some people talk negatively about/avoid visiting Chicago because they think it has been a dangerous gang infested city from the days of Capone through to today...

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
9W launches daily connections to India via AUH (already rumored) with a 773

Is this in addition to the existing EY flights? Wouldn't it make more sense to offer a nonstop ORD-India service, or probably better yet a one-stop via Europe, rather than a second daily AUH flight? There is much greater demand for something like Amsterdam out of ORD than Abu Dhabi.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
one of the Russian carriers returns, I think SU with a 773 4-5xs weekly (very large russian population here over 400k.)

ORD might be a good market for UN, which has high density aircraft that often run at less than daily frequencies. However, U.S.-Russia seems like a tricky market, since the U.S. and Russia impose such onerous visa restrictions on each other's citizens.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
What do you guys think is next for ORD?

AA to BCN, various regional markets
AS to SAN
B6 to FLL
EK to DXB
FI to KEF
NK to ATL, BWI, MSY, OAK, PHL, SAN, TLC
UA to GDL, MXP, various regional markets
WS to YYZ
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
747-600X
Posts: 2492
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2000 3:11 am

RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:23 am

What O'Hare needs is GATES. Since the invasion of the RJs, things have gotten ridiculous. Every day, planes - mostly RJs - pile up in the holding pads and Penalty Box. When it gets really bad, they start lining them up on the taxiways. Some days, United Express flights will experience double-dipper gate delays, where a jet will show up waiting for a gate that another plane ahead of it is already waiting for. Compared to its international competitors, the international terminal is just "plane" small. It doesn't have enough gates as is, and even after renovations the security checkpoint (the ONE security checkpoint) will still be a bottleneck.

My proposal? Build a new west field terminal with two distinct concourses - one for a solid 75+ regional jets, another for a good 25+ VLAs, all with 2 jetbridges and some with 3. Then, repurpose Terminal 2 (currently mostly RJ traffic) to its original use for mid-size aircraft (the dead-end taxi lanes between the terminals are lethal when it gets busy - those RJs just get tied in knots trying to get to and from their gates - the concourses were never designed or intended for that volume of traffic). Then also repurpose Terminal 5 for non-hub carriers. That way, Untied could aggregate all its flights together in T1 and 2, and American including USAir could spread from T3 over to the other side of T2, while carriers such as Alaska, Delta, Air Canada (which operates as a domestic for all intents and purposes) and Spirit could all have T5 to themselves.

Runways are nice, but the tower controllers at ORD get plenty of practice filling up the Penalty Box, the runway hold pads, and then taxiway N. If we're going to continue catering to swarms of RJs *and* hope to have VLAs taken seriously (two/three jet bridges) we just need to build a new terminal. The way things stand, we just don't have room for the planes.
 
brilondon
Posts: 3013
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:55 pm

Quoting ORD2010 (Reply 15):
I think at this point, using land surrounding the T5 area to build a new maybe remote concourse with at least 6 gates, 2 of them 380 capable, and expanding the immigration/customs area would be key. If not maybe a new terminal as a whole, what ever they do it cannot interfere with the current T5 operations, with AA removing all of its 757's to be replaced by 767's at ORD, UA bringing back the 744's and I'm sure soon many 787's space is going to be tight!

ORD is already a pain to use when flying in from an international city or arriving real early in the morning. Why would they not just make a couple of gates at the current terminal M for the A380. The rest is just making sure there is not enough room for all the passengers in the departure lounge and closing a couple more security lines when transferring to a domestic flight at terminals at C through F.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
jcwr56
Posts: 755
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am

RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:02 pm

Quoting 747-600X (Reply 39):



Yes, and what I see here are folks who are looking at it from their respective airlines position. United NEEDS their own FIS, American NEEDS their own FIS. Yet, neither wants to financially support funding a new western terminal to actually move their competitors to it. We're talking over a billion dollars for that terminal and several years to complete once the approvals are finally given.

Delta is in the perfect position, they have the terminal both UA and AA and some of the lowest lease rates. Why in gods name would they desire to move and increase their cost? DL doesn't have any plans to grow much more at ORD.

One of the key factors being looked currently is efficiencies by the carriers that arrival only at T5. It's widely known that T5 is used as a place to hold aircraft until the domestic gates are available. People complain of gate holds and yet, the biggest offenders are the ones who leave from the domestic side.

Any new carrier or current carrier wants to add a flight into T5, just schedule it around 1200-1300 or after 1700. There's plenty of gates available during that time as everyone is focused between 1400-1600.
 
CcrlR
Posts: 2182
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:24 am

RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:12 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 41):
One of the key factors being looked currently is efficiencies by the carriers that arrival only at T5. It's widely known that T5 is used as a place to hold aircraft until the domestic gates are available. People complain of gate holds and yet, the biggest offenders are the ones who leave from the domestic side.

Spirit and Virgin America use Terminal 5 for gate space due to the L concourse being full sometimes. AA uses one for 767's(with one other gate for 737, MD-80) and for Qatar and Air Berlin departures while American Connection use the other gates besides Westjet, JetBlue, Air Choice One, Spirit, and Virgin America.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
apodino
Posts: 3022
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:53 pm

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 38):
Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
The runways are coming in well and the south tower began construction, they are gearing up to make this the most efficient and important hub in the US with pax numbers up and international tourism in Chicago as a whole up.

Most efficient? What about Chicago's awful weather? Surely a warm dry hub like LAX or PHX is much more efficient.

He is exactly right. When all the construction is done, ORD will have the capability to run Quad Approaches simultaneously, which even in bad weather would mean you would have an arrival rate of well over 120 planes per hour. The only other airports like that in the US are DFW and DEN, and those airports deal with their own weather issues from time to time.

I agree....the issue in ORD is partially gates but also there are just too many RJ's. United has RJed that airport so much that even half their mainline concourse is Express practically, with the banana peel on B and the low C gates. By my count, I think they barely have 38 mainline gates now (Since the banana peel is now used for 170's and C1-C8 have been express for a while). If you want to compare other hubs, AA at DFW has close to 80 gates and maybe even more that handle mainline planes. DL in ATL has well over 100, and DTW on the A gates has about 50 or so. I get that some of these are tough to compare because EMB 170's are using mainline gates now as well, but considering ORD is UA's HQ and biggest hub, their reliance on RJ's in that hub still baffles me.
 
ORD2010
Topic Author
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:46 pm

RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:13 pm

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 38):
Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
ORD is in my opinion hands down the best airport in the world

WHAT?!!!?!??! You must be joking??

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
It has had a fantastic 2012 with new carriers and returning ones: Austrian, Airberlin, Qatar, Hainan and new routes from Shannon to Dusseldorf to name a few from its two home carriers, as well as newly announced Edinburgh from 2014 by UA.

Now this I agree with. However, keep in mind that other major U.S. airports like BOS, LAS, MIA, and SEA have also been doing extremely well in terms of getting new service from various domestic and foreign carriers during this same timeframe.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
what is next? Has ORD reached its peak destination wise?

Absolutely not. Whenever it seems there is nowhere else to go from ORD, the airlines surprise it with anything from tiny regional markets (ART, CHO, CMX, MHK, PAH, YKF, etc.) to interesting stuff much further afield (FAI, GUA, HEL, etc.). I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see anything start from BGR or MOT to BOG or OSL.

Haha, In my opinion I love ORD, to me it represents air travel more than any other airport, but that is my personal opinion aside its delays and mess. SEA is having a fantastic year, but ORD's year has been international heavy and they're all doing very well which is even better to show ORD can handle all those carriers!.
I think Oslo will be the next EU city to come from ORD, i see it either on a SAS 330, norwegian 788, or UA 757 (I think the 757 is a good size for this). BOG definitely next year as colombian officials already began meeting with the ORD delegation. For me Edinburgh from UA was a curve ball, didn't see it coming, but I've heard they've had amazing success on the Shannon flight (maybe we'll see 3xs weekly seasonal service to Cork at some point?) I think when LX receives its 773's we would see them at ORD since after JFK its their second busiest US route. HEL I think s a great route, does great for AA on its daily summer 767. Do you think we could see maybe Finnair come in and do the route during the summer on their metal and AA do it winter and make it year round? (DL/AF type deal on CDG). It would be awesome to see the finn tail at T5.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 38):
EK will happen sooner or later. ORD, along with MIA and the recently announced BOS, is an integral part of their U.S. expansion strategy. Chicago is now one of the most iconic cities in the world missing from the EK route map, and I daresay Dubai may well be one of the most popular markets unserved nonstop from ORD today. Competition will be intense, especially because most Chicago travelers that fly internationally are extremely loyal to UA/Star Alliance or AA/oneworld, but EK should have no trouble getting the travelers that would take independent subcontinent carriers like AI and PK.

Agree, but EK doesn't seem to think so with how long they've been taking to finally fly here.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 38):
In terms of Asian Star Alliance carriers serving ORD:

BR is a possibility, but the U.S.-Taiwan market seems to be very limited beyond the big 3 U.S. Asian gateway markets (L.A., New York, and San Francisco). Even with Taiwanese citizens now enjoying hassle free access to the U.S. under the Visa Waiver Program, it doesn't seem like there has been a big explosion in demand. ORD-TPE would be an awfully long, thin route, and BR's TPE hub really doesn't offer Star Alliance pax anything that can't already be accessed one stop via ICN, NRT, or PEK. Perhaps BR could try a less than daily one stop service like TPE-NGO/KIX-ORD with UA codeshare, though.

I could see BR doing a tag on but from TPE, like ORD-TPE-KIX and return. I think KIX is on the radar for ORD as a re-launch, maybe a 788 on UA would be the right equipment. How come CA didn't decide to go to ORD? I feel like they would do better than HU on a 330 or eventual 789. But it seems like HU on their 788 will do fantastic.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 38):
South America underserved?

Well maybe not deep south america, but I could see Colombia coming, maybe Lima, and down the road with a proper JV with AA to launch SCL to feed both sides of flight could work on a 767 or 787. I think 767 would be ideal seating wise. I think we will see BOG, LIM on 73's or 320's as the nearest routes down the road and later on GIG and SCL and maybe another attempt at EZE on a smaller 788 on UA.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 38):
Absolutely not. A few years ago South African announced an ORD service and loaded it for sale, only to cut it long before it ever began due to extremely poor advanced bookings. I just discussed the lack of demand for South America out of ORD, demand for African service from ORD is even worse.

Maybe we could see egyptair 2x's weekly or ET 2x's weekly eventually being star carriers with feed on both sides, I think ET is more likely if it happens, they seem to have a better relationship with UA to provide feed from both sides.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 38):
Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
Will we ever see OSL/LIS/BCN flights and the return of MXP?

Certainly a possibility. These seem like good candidates for any future AA or UA transatlantic services out of ORD.

I think those three are a star niche market, hub to hub on OSL and LIS, lets see when OSL comes which I think will be the first, with SAS or UA. Then LIS maybe on TAP with a 330 would be nice to see but I see it on UA happening as well on JV's on smaller planes. BCN sold very well when PIA did it and could succeed on AA metal to feed into OW hub to hub as IB is too weak to even consider BCN-ORD, or any routes for that matter.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 38):
I have never found Terminal 5 to be jam packed, at least when compared to ORD's other terminals (which handle many of the international departures). I would think a Terminal 5 expansion or new domestic concourse (how about a Concourse A off of B?) would be more likely and sufficient than a wholly new terminal.

I think an expansion of the concourse to the right (see the picture I put on a previous post) and add multi bridge gates to handle 380's and 748i's as I see more coming. I could see an expansion of T3 to that area beside it (see pic above as well) to shove a lot of the RJ's

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 38):
Where is this going to be? ORD's current rental car setup seems pretty par for the course when it comes to a major airport. A short bus ride, no big deal. The parking situation also seems very standard, an extremely expensive garage within walking distance of the terminal and remote lots with regular bus service...

its gonna be off the main road by where the access road begins, http://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/n...o-get-new-rental-car.html?page=all gives you the break down. This is what it'll look like
ORD


Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 38):
Most efficient?

The most efficient like facility wise with the 6 parallels and major taxi ways and 3 ATC towers and great green cargo facilities. But we can change the weather, if you factor that out then ORD could be amazing especially with an expansion here and there.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 38):
Is this in addition to the existing EY flights?

No word on it yet, Nothing is concrete yet but that is what they're saying, and it is a new Indian city currently not served, but I don't think EY would simply give up their metal on the ORD route which has been doing great for them. I think we could see 9W metal occasionally, maybe not daily flying along side EY's, I think ORD could handle another AUH flight 5x's a week given the indian connection on the AUH side which is growing (AI serves 2 cities, Hyderabad few times a week and daily delhi, but hyderabad is a tag on the 773 begins there and ends in ORD). I always saw 9W coming to ORD with time, however I think had they kept their old BRU connection hub would of fared better given that the BRU market is better as UA upgraded from a 76 to a 772 this year. But AUH is the new transatlantic hub.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 38):
ORD might be a good market for UN, which has high density aircraft that often run at less than daily frequencies. However, U.S.-Russia seems like a tricky market, since the U.S. and Russia impose such onerous visa restrictions on each other's citizens.

Agreed, having tried to go Russia before it is a tough market on their side to get in. Living in Miami though we get twice daily at times to Moscow on 2 carriers. I'm pretty sure we could handle a multi weekly or daily moscow flight from ORD, which has a much larger native population and traffic and connections than MIA, it was done before, why not again? Eastern EU is the next market for ORD as western EU is well covered, and OS and LO doing well, I could see Moscow, Kiev, and eventually Athens once things get better there, how ever I can't see Kiev or Athens working daily, maybe 3-5xs weekly (Huge amount of Ukraine immigrants in Chicago make up a good part of its Russian pop and they all constantly fly back as I've met many. Good Greek community in chicago as well although the economic situation I think is the element holding it back). I could see Glasgow 1x daily and Manchester going 2x daily with BA and the 787 complimenting AA's 767.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 38):
AA to BCN, various regional markets
AS to SAN
B6 to FLL
EK to DXB
FI to KEF
NK to ATL, BWI, MSY, OAK, PHL, SAN, TLC
UA to GDL, MXP, various regional markets
WS to YYZ

Absolutely agree, i could see WS being the first followed by B6 as living by FLL I've noticed a lot of recent awareness of Chicago and a lot of people wanting to go. EK confuses me. FI, I've been waiting for them, they've launched small canadian markets, MSP, DEN, and to me ORD seems so much more logical to not have to rely solely on O&D and operate a major hub to hub flight. I could definitely see NK expanding, they are a serious in growing and people fly them as much as they hate them, which is a lot. I think MXP could work especially with EXPO2015 and the world route summit at Chicago in 2014 I could see it working for at least those two years for world events and maybe after that with proper awareness. GDL for me is a given since the only daily at ORD is the early morning and MDW is far. I still think JJ could launch ORD-GRU as their intro into OW with a JV with AA since AA was denied the rights especially heading into the world cup and olympics and AA GIG seasonal for a short term again for these big international events.
 
jsnww81
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:28 pm

I live in Chicago. As others have said, unless you live in certain neighborhoods on the south or west side, the crime rate doesn't even come close to being an issue. There's a small demographic in this city that refuses to play nicely with everyone else, but for those of us in the rest of the city, life is pretty good.

Quoting apodino (Reply 44):
When all the construction is done, ORD will have the capability to run Quad Approaches simultaneously, which even in bad weather would mean you would have an arrival rate of well over 120 planes per hour.

The four parallel approaches are wonderful in theory, but I don't have much faith in the FAA doing a thorough job redesigning our airspace to efficiently bring planes into the Chicago control area. When the first new runway opened in 2008, the flow-control delays went down significantly, but you still see flights being vectored all over the metro area to get lined up for landing. The volume of regional jet flights at ORD is so staggering these days (although lately mainline does seem to be up slightly) that it's madness just trying to get everyone lined up for the three parallel approaches we currently have.

[Edited 2013-09-21 09:26:10 by SA7700]
 
brilondon
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:49 pm

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
ORD is in my opinion hands down the best airport in the world,

Ok, now that I have gotten up off the floor laughing, I can comment on this statement. Yes, it is your opinion but I think that it might just be a little short sighted. Which airports are you comparing it to? I can think of three or four just in the US that are a better experience to fly through, no wait, I can think of a lot more than three. Just the ones I use on a regular basis HNL, DTW, DFW, BUF, SEA and ATL all offer a better experience than ORD IMO.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
727LOVER
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:53 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 5):
after 10/28C opens up next month

Is there an exact date for this?.......and when this happens, what runway(s) will close?
I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
 
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AmricanShamrok
Posts: 1800
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:56 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 14):
M6 and M14 are not used due to clearance issues
Quoting apodino (Reply 44):
ORD is UA's HQ and biggest hub

While Chicago is UA's headquarters, IAH is its largest hub.

Quoting ORD2010 (Reply 45):
I think Oslo will be the next EU city to come from ORD, i see it either on a SAS 330, norwegian 788, or UA 757

I'm not sure a fully loaded 757 would not make it from ORD to OSL without a fuel stop en route (definitely not during the winter months anyway). This route would be 64nm longer than EWR-TXL which is currently the longest 757 service for UA, operating during the summer (I believe it's operated by a 767 during the winter).

Quoting ORD2010 (Reply 45):
I've heard they've had amazing success on the Shannon flight (maybe we'll see 3xs weekly seasonal service to Cork at some point?)

We will absolutely never see an ORD-ORK route. Cork currently has no longhaul service whatsoever and if they ever get any, it'll be at most 3x/4x weekly seasonal service to NYC. Just my two cents.

I do know that there are ongoing discussions between SNN and UA to expand the ORD-SNN schedule for next summer. I don't know if this means an increase in frequency or an extension to the June-September run or both.
 
jcwr56
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:11 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 49):
Is there an exact date for this?.......and when this happens, what runway(s) will close?

October 17th and none.
 
ORD2010
Topic Author
Posts: 104
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:12 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 50):
I'm not sure a fully loaded 757 would not make it from ORD to OSL without a fuel stop en route (definitely not during the winter months anyway). This route would be 64nm longer than EWR-TXL which is currently the longest 757 service for UA, operating during the summer (I believe it's operated by a 767 during the winter).

Agreed, but I feel like a 767 might just be too much capacity, maybe the efficiency of the 788 can make up for that, and I could be wrong maybe the traffic into OSL would be higher to fill a 767.

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 50):
We will absolutely never see an ORD-ORK route. Cork currently has no longhaul service whatsoever and if they ever get any, it'll be at most 3x/4x weekly seasonal service to NYC. Just my two cents.

I do know that there are ongoing discussions between SNN and UA to expand the ORD-SNN schedule for next summer. I don't know if this means an increase in frequency or an extension to the June-September run or both.

I thought they already had service from new york to Cork, but in that case I see JFK first or EWR. As for Shannon I think we could see it expanded on both terms, funny how when Aer Lingus flew SNN it didn't work but with UA it's done great.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 48):
Ok, now that I have gotten up off the floor laughing, I can comment on this statement. Yes, it is your opinion but I think that it might just be a little short sighted. Which airports are you comparing it to? I can think of three or four just in the US that are a better experience to fly through, no wait, I can think of a lot more than three. Just the ones I use on a regular basis HNL, DTW, DFW, BUF, SEA and ATL all offer a better experience than ORD IMO.

As i said in my opinion, I've yet to have a bad experience at ORD and the terminals are clean and easy to navigate through that I've used, the city it serves is absolutely fantastic (just don't be an idiot and wander into the bad areas of the south/southwest then you're asking for it, same advice I give people coming into MIA which sees horrendous crime rates around our county area.) ATL I've had nothing but bad experiences and heavy delays even on night time flights when the airport is empty. You can't judge the weather in this since the airport is not in control of this. The carriers that serve ORD are top notch to some of the best destinations and the variety is fantastic. To me it is really the best far better than the mildew ridden dark and dirty airport we use in Miami. By usage alone and convenience, FLL is my favorite, close to home, no lines, fast to move in, clean and small. DUS is absolutely magnificent, absolutely nothing bad, BCN is nice, LHR is a mess, CDG is confusing and spread out, FCO is old and run down but great shopping. Don't get me started on South America.
 
727LOVER
Posts: 6598
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:14 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 50):
October 17th and none.

WOW.....so they'll be using 8 runways??????

Now,...will 10L/28R (which I think is the former 10/28.....and before that, 9R/27L) still be the main runway for international heavies & cargo?
I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
 
ORDTLV2414
Posts: 451
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:02 am

RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:52 pm

Quoting LFutia (Reply 30):
DL is a big player here in Chicago and it wouldn't surprise me to see if we can handle more DL/KL connections.

hahaha. that is ludicrous. DL is such a small player here in Chicago. This is a UA/AA City.
 
thekennady
Posts: 366
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:03 pm

Good post, I love these! Sorry im late to post
ORD has seen a good amount of additional service this year and lets hope it continues into next year as well.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
ORD is in my opinion hands down the best airport in the world

I Understand how you feel about ORD, but I would not say its the best Airport in the world because many cities around the globe have airports with more modern terminals and facilities. But what maybe you mean is that ORD is one of the most Impressive airports in the world. That I can agree with, ORD has a amazing number of flights landing and departing that it can get pretty exciting at ORD. With 2 Legacy carriers with major hubs, a strong number of International carriers, and a good balance of domestic and International service, ORD is surely a amazing airport indeed. From a spotting standpoint the Regional jets can get tiring, but ORD is probably the Only airport in the world where you can see 12 regional jets in a row followed by two 777s. From a passenger standpoint, there are many carrier options as well as non stop destinations, and the airport is not a bad place to connect except for going from INTL to a domestic flight. The Airfield will continue to receive additions and improvements that will make it more efficient. Gate space is limited and the terminals are older which is the a real big knock on ORD as of right now. So a very impressive airport but I would not say the absolute best.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
EK finally launches daily 773 service to DXB

Only a matter or time, will be with a 773, the timing slots may be a issue if EK wants a early afternoon arrival and a evening departure. Something arriving in the 1130-1pm time may work for them. EK though will face heavy competition, which will be great for ORD and the passengers but may oversaturate the market a bit. RJ, EK, QR, EY, TK, AI and the EU carriers will be fighting it out, will be fun to see how they all fair in the long run.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
9W launches daily connections to India via AUH (already rumored) with a 773

Just now hearing about this, is there really room for 9W? they would have to go against AI and the carriers I mentioned before for connections to India, AI has been rumoring a possible 787 on ORD-BOM and this would really make it hard for 9W to catch on. Maybe 3 times weekly to complement the EY flight? we will see.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
BR goes 5x weekly to TPE with a 777

one of the Russian carriers returns, I think SU with a 773 4-5xs weekly (very large russian population here over 400k.)

BR is the most likely East Asian carrier to come to ORD. Star to Star and would be a new gateway for BR to connect passengers from the East coast and Midwest to southeast Asia. BR would face a lot of competition as well but its worth a try.

I don't see any service to Russia anytime soon, flying to Russia would be a long flight with majority VFR traffic and would require a flyover of all the Major European hubs. Russia has poor Geography to fly to the states from with Europe being right there.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
JJ launches daily GRU (most likely) or GIG 773 with a JV with AA now that they will be OW soon.

ET 2xs weekly to ADD 788.

No and No, If there is another ORD-GRU route it will be AA after the slots open again, and wont be with a 773, that's too much capacity. ET serves YYZ and that's as close as they will get.

Quoting ORD2010 (Thread starter):
maybe a 380 upgrade from EY, BA, LH or KE soon? It's about time.

ORD will never be a major A380 hub, AA and UA wont be getting any and the Airport is not located on a coast or has the current facilities to accommodate A380s. ORD being so centrally located kinda hurts with the A380, in the future you may see one or two carriers bring the A380 to ORD, but not anytime soon, LH with the 748 should hold you until then.

What is could see as I have posted before is some one such as AV Picking up ORD-BOG, the local market is small but onward connections at BOG along with the economics of a narrow body could make it work.

ORD-TLV is another potential route, its around 78PDEW and ORD is perfect for connections from Midwest and West. LY or UA are potential takers, although UA already does EWR-TLV, a LY return makes the most sense.
 
ORD2010
Topic Author
Posts: 104
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:50 pm

Quoting thekennady (Reply 47):

I think you perfectly captured what I meant my best airport, perhaps yes not the single best, but the most impressive. Absolutely agree, and you're not late! I wouldn't mind this post going for a while it is nice to know what everyone is thinking, since let's face it, people on here are normally right with predictions. Thank you for the comments on the post! I think once EK joins in RJ might suffer the most, although how are their loads? It just feels like they'd be hit the most by EK entering the market.

Where did you hear about AI? I think the 788 is ideal for a complimentary India route with Delhi as Pakistan has a high demand for ORD that could be met. I think ORD-BOM is a fantastic move on AI's part if it comes into fruition. As for 9W like I said I doubt EY is gonna surrender their ORD flight to them so a multi weekly tag along flight on 9W metal would be the most logical, I think they could fare well alongside AI although an EU connection would fare better. Rumor is EY wants to launch a second daily and TK CEO announce plans to launch a second daily ORD soon when they announced BOS. So I think the market for EK is more than there I see EK growing into Asia and the Mideast next now that the last few holes in Europe are being plugged (along with EDI like I said LIS/OSL/BCN/MXP are the next logical a and KEF and far down the road Kiev and ATH. I think the demand for Russia is there just not the right way to serve it as of now. If JJ launches ORD it'd be in place of AA unless AA gets their rights granted soon, knowing how big AA is in Brazil them not flying GRU-ORD but instead UA is prime example of what US CEO said that AA just let UA take ORD and they didn't put up a fight. LY I think we will absolutely see in 2014 and PIA returning 2xs weekly via BCN (a needed EU market).

Like I said BR definitely will be coming it's not an if but a when, and whether it'll be TPE-KIX/NRT-ORD or nonstop, I think non stop because with 5 daily 777's connecting the two on 4 carriers another won't get the traffic so a nonstop would be much more appealing in my opinion and would be nice to see their tail at T5 along with HU. Although I expect we will see KIX make a come back and be successful at ORD given the rising amount of Asian tourism at ORD, I expect KE to send one of their 748's here and OZ to go daily next year for good. What's your outlook on other Asian carriers? I think PR is poised to make a comeback to ORD and they've hinted at it. The tails at ORD are the best mix from all over, where else can you see 10 rjs then 77's from Asia to South America them a 737 followed by a 787 from Eastern Europe with 3 744's behind it? It's amazing and I'm so glad UA is bringing the 744's home! I agree with how ORD works it's more about frequencies than single capacities so an a380 is tough, but I expect eventually either LH, BA, KE and further EK to attempt a 380 when the gates are available and only EK and LH I see keeping it year round as the ORD-Germany market I'd say is the second largest in the US behind JFK/EWR.

Could we ever see a one stop flight to New Zealand or Australia (Star and OW hubs) to ORD? Or is that totally out of the question? Didn't Qantas try once?

Anyways thanks everyone for your inputs!
 
HNL
Posts: 435
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RE: What's Next For ORD

Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:05 am

AA and UA need to be allowed to build FIS facilities in T1 and T3 respectively. That would solve the T5 capacity issues and eliminate the need to transport aircraft from T5 to T1/T3 for international departures.
HNL - There's no place like it!

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