dkramer7
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Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:11 am

The equipment used seems to be either B744 or B744ER, not A380.

I am wondering why such an important route for QF which links directly into Partner AA's main hub, would not have the Premium aircraft which also had the longest legs?

Surely an A380 is less likely to be payload restricted than a B744/B744ER?
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:14 am

A few reasons:

1. Not enough in the fleet at the moment.
2. They cannot profitably fly them on the route because the current a380 doesn't have the range to do so with a full payload. Qf has expressed the desire to use the new IGW a380s on the DFW route when they come on property in the next few years.
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:20 am

I never thought the A380 had the legs to make it to DFW. Not to mention the 744ER has a pretty large range.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 1):
1. Not enough in the fleet at the moment.

I never thought that was an issue.
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ADent
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:22 am

B744ER is used. There was a thread this week about the first time a B744 (non-ER) was used due to equipment substitution. It was pre-planned to stop in AKL because it doesn't have the range to make DFW-BNE (though it did make it SYD-DFW).
 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:28 am

Quoting dkramer7 (Thread starter):
B744 or B744ER

Only 744ER. The other day was the first time they have ever used a 744 on the route, and was only because the original aircraft went tech and they therefore subbed whatever they could find at short notice.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 1):
They cannot profitably fly them on the route because the current a380 doesn't have the range to do so with a full payload

  

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
1. Not enough in the fleet at the moment.

I never thought that was an issue.

Technically they could do it, but with no spares in the A380 fleet (3x SYD-LHR, 3x MEL-LHR, 2x SYD-LAX, 2x MEL-LAX, 2x SYD-DFW = 12). I guess that isn't an insurmountable problem as they could sub 747s to cover maintenance.

Range is the biggest issue. The million dollar question right now is whether the route goes HGW A380 or 2x 787 in the future. We will find out in due course, but in the mean time we will have a weekly thread on the subject 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:57 am

Quoting dkramer7 (Thread starter):
Surely an A380 is less likely to be payload restricted than a B744/B744ER?

DFW-SYD is a 16hr + sector on an average day. The 569t MTOW /~292t DOW version will not carry the 484-seats that QF has it is laid out for. Max payload is just over 42t.
 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:59 am

Quoting ADent (Reply 3):
it did make it SYD-DFW

Which is a phenomenal performance!

Does anyone know if they dumped a lot of weight in Sydney prior to departure? If not then the tailwinds most have been roaring that day.
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solarflyer22
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:35 am

My understanding from another thread was it didn't have the range. Would a 777LR be adequate on this route? Why use a four-holer?
 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:44 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 7):
My understanding from another thread was it didn't have the range. Would a 777LR be adequate on this route? Why use a four-holer?

Gotta look back at why SQ is withdrawing the A345 service to NYC:

Why buy a plane for only one or two services?
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:51 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 7):
Would a 777LR be adequate on this route?

It would haul max volume limited payload on this sector.
 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:13 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 9):
It would haul max volume limited payload on this sector.

At 7,454nm I would think the 77LR could handle the route with relative ease. I know Delta's ATL-JNB route, which is nearly the same distance at 7,333nm, takes on a full load of freight both coming and going more often than not. One thing is for certain, it's a much more capable aircraft for such a long route when it comes to hauling cargo than anything Qantas has in their fleet at the moment.
 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:42 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
I never thought that was an issue.

Well, why use it on a route where they would have to limit the payload and profit when they can use it on another route that allows full payload?
 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:25 pm

This is when Qantas wished it had the 777 since it is really the only plane in production that can make a route like this work. The A359 should be able to along with maybe the 747-8 and 787, but Qantas has focused on the A380 which is not an ultra long range plane yet. EK wants to fly the A380 to LAX but the payload restrictions make it not work economically. If Airbus continues to increase MTOW we might see the A380 work.
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:35 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 12):
This is when Qantas wished it had the 777

QF called the 777 an old, outdated airplane and would never buy any. QF also reduced the number of Dreamliners on order. I don't think QF has any money to buy new airplanes.
 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:41 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 12):
EK wants to fly the A380 to LAX but the payload restrictions make it not work economically.

Then why are they launching A380 LAX service later this year?
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:19 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 12):
This is when Qantas wished it had the 777 since it is really the only plane in production that can make a route like this work. The A359 should be able to along with maybe the 747-8 and 787

747-8 doesn't help on this route because it has even less range than a380.
 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:20 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 13):
QF called the 777 an old, outdated airplane and would never buy any.

They're clearly in the minority in those beliefs. And judging from their recent financial performance, perhaps they should have eaten some humble pie and ordered the 777.
 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:33 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 14):

Because airbus has been working on higher MTOW A380s if I understand correctly. When are higher MTOW A380s coming to QF.
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:49 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 7):
My understanding from another thread was it didn't have the range. Would a 777LR be adequate on this route? Why use a four-holer?

Emirates flies the 777-300ER on DXB-LAX which is also around 7400nm. So the airframe can make the trip, although I'm not sure if some seats are blocked from reservation.

Emirates also used the 777LR on the DXB-LAX route but changed it to the larger 77W because the extra seats generate more revenue than the cargo does.
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:13 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 5):
DFW-SYD is a 16hr + sector on an average day. The 569t MTOW /~292t DOW version will not carry the 484-seats that QF has it is laid out for. Max payload is just over 42t.

This route is right up there on the list of longest non-stop routes. I think it is going to become rank 1 once SQ withdraws the two A345 services SIN to LAX and EWR.
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:18 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 17):
Because airbus has been working on higher MTOW A380s if I understand correctly. When are higher MTOW A380s coming to QF.

The way I understand it, EK will get its first 575t MTOW A380 later this year. They waited for this version to launch LAX A380 service because it can make the trip economical.

If Qantas wants to fly the A380 from SYD to DFW, they could take the 575t MTOW A380 for their last 8 aircraft on order.
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BoeingMerica
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:46 pm

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 19):

Yes you are correct. It is also important to note the SQ service is on the subfleet of A345s that are in 100biz class seat configuration. I've seen a short documentary on the route, and the demand is there for the route. However, the only plane with the legs is being retired, and the weight of fuel carried really drags down the profit potential.

So, now that the rant is done, SYDNEY-DFW is the longest route with a 'normal' config

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sunrisevalley
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:18 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 20):
If Qantas wants to fly the A380 from SYD to DFW, they could take the 575t MTOW A380 for their last 8 aircraft on order

The first 2 of these are scheduled 2016-2017 and the last 6 for 2018-2020. Looks like the 744ER's will be pulling this duty for a while longer.
 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:28 pm

Is this the only route which the 744ER is routinely scheduled on?

[Edited 2013-09-22 14:21:46]
 
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EK413
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:26 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 13):
Quoting roseflyer (Reply 12):
This is when Qantas wished it had the 777

QF called the 777 an old, outdated airplane and would never buy any. QF also reduced the number of Dreamliners on order. I don't think QF has any money to buy new airplanes.

You sure about QF not having any money? Last time I checked they had close to $3 billion in cash reserves. I understand it might not be a lot when the factor in the size of the QF Group but its still cash.

QF have indicated the remaining 8 A380 frames to feature a 3 class cabin which is a clear indication these aircraft are destined to serve any of the following; SYD-DFW, BNE-LAX, SYD-SCL, SYD-JNB, SYD-NRT.

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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:00 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 13):
I don't think QF has any money to buy new airplanes.

So the new aircraft they have been taking from Boeing (737's and 787's soon) as well as the refirbs they have done on all thier long range aircraft sans the A333's which will be done next year, was for free? Gezus, there are some generious companies out there!

If your going to take a swing, know what youre talking about...

[Edited 2013-09-22 16:00:37]
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:31 pm

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 16):
perhaps they should have eaten some humble pie and ordered the 777

And other than DFW what would they have done with them?

Maybe they could operate QF15 BNE-LAX QF107 LAX-JFK QF108 JFK-LAX QF16 LAX-BNE. So 2 routes, 4 aircraft.

QF aren't going to buy a sub-fleet for just one route.

Quoting afterburner33 (Reply 23):
Is this the only route which the 744ER is routinely scheduled on?

Officially yes.

BNE-LAX is prioritised to receive a refurbished 747 if physically possible.

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 22):
Looks like the 744ER's will be pulling this duty for a while longer

  

We've got another 3 years of this, which is seemingly becoming the new "When Will Northwest Retire the DC-9". I think this is the third thread on the subject in as many weeks.
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:48 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
Why buy a plane for only one or two services?

Isn't it obvious? Because the numbers add up. Why on earth would they say no to good profit?
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wedgetail737
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:10 am

Quoting zkokq (Reply 25):
So the new aircraft they have been taking from Boeing (737's and 787's soon) as well as the refirbs they have done on all thier long range aircraft sans the A333's which will be done next year, was for free? Gezus, there are some generious companies out there!

If your going to take a swing, know what youre talking about...

QF had a huge order for 787's and they chopped a significant number of them because they were running out of money. $3B in reserves sound like a lot of money, but if you're bleeding cash at $100M's, that $3B won't last long.

I hope QF has turned the corner.
 
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zkokq
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:14 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 28):

QF had a huge order for 787's and they chopped a significant number of them because they were running out of money. $3B in reserves sound like a lot of money, but if you're bleeding cash at $100M's, that $3B won't last long

Mean while they still have the JQ 787's coming, they have 50 options for 789's for mainline and they are taking 737's? I dont get how you can back up your last statement?

We all know canceling the original purchase rights was the best thing to do, because it allowed them to pick up more dash8's and the 717's from Mexicana.

Qantas is not going to be a carrier that flies to every country anymore. The deal with EK has been a positive for the company and allows them to focus on Asia. So cutting the purchase rights was the smart thing to do.
 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:27 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 28):
but if you're bleeding cash at $100M's, that $3B won't last long.

Qantas is profitable on a group wide basis, the International division is the only part that is loss making.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 28):
I hope QF has turned the corner

The loss on their international flights HALVED in the financial year ended June 30, 2013, compared to the year before.

The haven't just "turned the corner", the carrier is well and truly on its way back.

International will return to profitability in 2 years.
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:28 am

Quoting cmf (Reply 27):
Isn't it obvious? Because the numbers add up. Why on earth would they say no to good profit

Because the numbers didn't add up. The numbers obviously say its better to run the B744ER until the IGW A380 & B787s turn up then buy a one off aircraft for a few routes.

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wedgetail737
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:36 am

Quoting zkokq (Reply 29):
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 30):
Qantas is profitable on a group wide basis, the International division is the only part that is loss making.
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 30):
The loss on their international flights HALVED in the financial year ended June 30, 2013, compared to the year before.

The haven't just "turned the corner", the carrier is well and truly on its way back.

International will return to profitability in 2 years.
Quoting zkokq (Reply 25):
If your going to take a swing, know what youre talking about...

Ok...thanks for the corrections and thanks for the responses without being RUDE...like zkokq.
 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:04 am

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 12):
This is when Qantas wished it had the 777 since it is really the only plane in production that can make a route like this work.

If QF wished they had the 77L, they'd go out and purchase a few. And seeing as QF is operating the route with the 744ER, the route must be working for them. Otherwise, I'm not sure why they would have started it in the first place.
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:22 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 7):
Why use a four-holer?

Because that's what QF has in their fleet. There's also the fact that SYD-DFW passes through the small part of the Pacific that is restricted under ETOPS-180, though the diversion is small so could be managed if needs be.

On a slightly related note, it's also worth remembering that QF regularly fills every seat they can on this service, so the additional capacity of the 747 is very valuable on the outbound leg from SYD. The extra ~150 seats worth of revenue (compared to a 77L) should cover the additional operating costs, and could perhaps even be the difference that makes these services a profitable exercise.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 32):
without being RUDE...like zkokq.

To be fair to zkokq, it is frustrating when the same topic comes up every week and there is always someone who doesn't know what they're talking about and presents their mislead opinion as fact.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 33):
If QF wished they had the 77L, they'd go out and purchase a few.

   Especially now that they have invested in 787 infrastructure, which would make introducing a small 777 subfleet a much cheaper exercise than it would have been 3-4 years ago.

But they are taking a longer term view instead.
 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:52 am

Quoting afterburner33 (Reply 23):
Is this the only route which the 744ER is routinely scheduled on?

They are used on five routes, in addition to the SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD rotation, they are also routinely scheduled on BNE-LAX-BNE, BNE-SIN-BNE, SYD-SCL-SYD, SYD-LAX-JFK-LAX-SYD (mixed with some regular 744 services)  
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
I never thought the A380 had the legs to make it to DFW. Not to mention the 744ER has a pretty large range.

That is correct, the current A380s would have to take far too big a payload hit to make it, where the 744ER can carry more over that range and the economics of the aircraft are superior over such a distance.
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:01 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 31):
Because the numbers didn't add up. The numbers obviously say its better to run the B744ER until the IGW A380 & B787s turn up then buy a one off aircraft for a few routes.

Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. In the SYD - DFW case it seems they didn't. In the LCY - JFK case it seems they did. In the SIN LAX/EWR it seems the numbers added up but the result didn't. The rule isn't as simple as PHX787 implied.
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:35 am

Quoting zkokq (Reply 25):
So the new aircraft they have been taking from Boeing (737's and 787's soon) as well as the refirbs they have done on all thier long range aircraft sans the A333's which will be done next year, was for free? Gezus, there are some generious companies out there!

  

Quoting cmf (Reply 27):

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
Why buy a plane for only one or two services?

Isn't it obvious? Because the numbers add up. Why on earth would they say no to good profit?

Did you crunch the numbers right? Introducing one sub type into the fleet is a costly exercise & I'm sure QF explored every avenue prior to ordering 6 x B744ER's.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 28):
Quoting zkokq (Reply 25):
So the new aircraft they have been taking from Boeing (737's and 787's soon) as well as the refirbs they have done on all thier long range aircraft sans the A333's which will be done next year, was for free? Gezus, there are some generious companies out there!

If your going to take a swing, know what youre talking about...

QF had a huge order for 787's and they chopped a significant number of them because they were running out of money. $3B in reserves sound like a lot of money, but if you're bleeding cash at $100M's, that $3B won't last long.

I hope QF has turned the corner.

Last time I check QF was on track to making a return to profitability. Perhaps we should return to this thread in approximately 2 years.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 30):

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 28):
but if you're bleeding cash at $100M's, that $3B won't last long.

Qantas is profitable on a group wide basis, the International division is the only part that is loss making.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 28):
I hope QF has turned the corner

The loss on their international flights HALVED in the financial year ended June 30, 2013, compared to the year before.

The haven't just "turned the corner", the carrier is well and truly on its way back.

International will return to profitability in 2 years.

I'll be here with a bottle of champagne      


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Gemuser
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:02 am

Quoting cmf (Reply 36):
The rule isn't as simple as PHX787 implied.

        
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:49 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 37):
Did you crunch the numbers right? Introducing one sub type into the fleet is a costly exercise & I'm sure QF explored every avenue prior to ordering 6 x B744ER's.

???

I don't crunch those numbers. It is for the airlines to do. I answered when it makes sense to add a small subfleet for one or two routes.
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IndianicWorld
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:33 am

The EK partnership really has given QF International a lift from the malaise it was in, which is a great first step.

I really can't see QF expanding greatly in the future though, even with the 787's. Being at the geographic location that we are, Australia is just not that well suited as a hub, and the other competitors will have many advantages over QF (or VA for that matter) on their services.

It will likely always be reliant of a strong domestic market and to target key strategic destinations and hub connections to make $$.
 
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EK413
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:39 am

Quoting cmf (Reply 39):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 37):
Did you crunch the numbers right? Introducing one sub type into the fleet is a costly exercise & I'm sure QF explored every avenue prior to ordering 6 x B744ER's.

???

I don't crunch those numbers. It is for the airlines to do.

That was exactly my point! QF and the ones making the decision which drives the business accessed the B77L. It turned out not viable to operate a sub fleet of 4-6 B77L's vs 6 x B744ER's which required minimal crew familiarisation.

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IndianicWorld
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:45 am

The 77L is also appearing to not be a great option at this rate for carriers, so maybe this wasn't the saviour that a few seem to have thought it was.

Theres so many factors that go into aircraft selection, and for those who continue to blame all the woes on 'failure' of QF to order the 777, I think they are not looking at the bigger picture. A number of issues over the past decade have gone against the carrier on decisions that would have made sense for it if it paid off. In the end, some things just don't work out as planned.
 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:56 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 42):
The 77L is also appearing to not be a great option at this rate for carriers, so maybe this wasn't the saviour that a few seem to have thought it was.

Theres so many factors that go into aircraft selection, and for those who continue to blame all the woes on 'failure' of QF to order the 777, I think they are not looking at the bigger picture. A number of issues over the past decade have gone against the carrier on decisions that would have made sense for it if it paid off. In the end, some things just don't work out as planned.

Precisely!   

A number of issues certainly went against the carrier such as on going A380 & B787 delays.

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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:02 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 43):
A number of issues certainly went against the carrier such as on going A380 & B787 delays.

Their strategy with those two planes made sense to me, then they got hit by the perfect storm.
 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:15 pm

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 44):

Quoting EK413 (Reply 43):
A number of issues certainly went against the carrier such as on going A380 & B787 delays.

Their strategy with those two planes made sense to me, then they got hit by the perfect storm.

The choice of aircraft are perfect for the missions for which QF plan to deploy them on.

So, tell me why didn't QF order a sub fleet of B77L's?

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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:15 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 41):
That was exactly my point! QF and the ones making the decision which drives the business accessed the B77L. It turned out not viable to operate a sub fleet of 4-6 B77L's vs 6 x B744ER's which required minimal crew familiarisation.

Yet again, agree it doesn't look like it makes sense for QF. BA with their two A318s on the other hand look pretty good. You can't make it as simple as PHX787 tried to make it.
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:52 pm

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 35):
That is correct, the current A380s would have to take far too big a payload hit to make it, where the 744ER can carry more over that range and the economics of the aircraft are superior over such a distance.

How would the 748 have looked on that route? I know it has less range than a 744ER, but I was assuming carrying more people. Would it have the range (especially if Boeing gets the tail tank activated), would it be able to generate any more revenue (either in pax or freight) vs the 744ER, and would its trip costs be less?
 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:31 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 45):
So, tell me why didn't QF order a sub fleet of B77L's?

They had more than enough 744's to meet their schedules and no way of lightening up on them because of long term commitments to them. I would guess that when they should have been adding some 77L's they had no way of disposing of displaced 744's at anything close to book value. Also they had used their borrowing power on the A380's.
 
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RE: Why Is The A380 Not Used On QF Flights To Dallas

Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:23 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 48):

I'm well aware, I was only being sarcastic     

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