gilesdavies
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Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:10 pm

I just had a few questions about the 787's coming to Thomson Airways and if anyone was able to answer the few questions I had below...

I was just curious if anyone knew how much longer we can expect to see the 767's flying at Thomson Airways for and when the delivery of the 787's will be complete? Also I am a little confused how many 787's are are actually coming to the Thomson fleet on a permanent basis, as I seem to recall it was a bulk order, made for the whole of the TUI Group of airlines.

Are they being replaced on a 1:1 basis, or will Thomson have additional widebodied capability once everything has been delivered, also can we expect to see in the long run some of the Dreamliners in a high density config to operate in Europe like we see with one or two of the 767's or are they exclusively for Long Haul?

Have any 767's actually been retired yet? I notice four 787's have now been delivered to the fleet, but cannot see any details of retirements.

Also while on the subject of the 787, what does the future hold for Long Haul ops out of Bristol? From what I understand there were issues with the airports short 6000ft runway, as the STOL capability of the new aircraft hasn't lived up to what Boeing promised in the early days and also issues with the aircrafts far larger wingspan being accomodated at the airport. (More than happy to be corrected if this is not the case.)

[Edited 2013-09-25 10:49:27]
 
tomkell92
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:09 am

Hi,

Currently the only 767's that have left the fleet are as follows:

G-OOAN (First Choice) gone to CAM

G-OBYD (Thomson Short Haul) gone to Nordwind

G-PJLO (First Choice) gone to CAM

The next one to leave is G-DBLA which is expected to go to China somewhere. There are also many 757's that are leaving the fleet too, mainly the old Thomsonfly ones. The 2 757's without winglets G-BYAT and G-BYAW should be the next to go.

Cheers,
Tom
Tom Kellock
 
APYu
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:38 am

TOM will have fewer 787s than 767s when they eventually all arrive so overall a slight wide body capacity reduction. No TOM 787s are planned to be in a different configuration so dont expect a higher density one for short / medium haul operations. (However configs can change depending on the needs of the Tour Operator so this could change). 8 are coming to the UK airline. 4 have been delivered, the next 2 TUI Group Deliveries will be to other airlines in the group with 2 more arriving to TOM early next year.

With 6 in the fleet next summer, all summer longhaul 2014 will be on the 787. Re Bristol have you checked what the holiday company parent are offering out of Bristol next year? That should be an indication of what the holiday company is offering from that location.

I am not sure when the final 2 787s arrive.

787s will still be on short and medium haul duties next year in between their long haul duties
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davies2911
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:04 am

Thomson are advertising in the brochures for their brands that all long haul flying by TOM will be 787 from the week starting 14th July 2014.

Quoting APYu (Reply 2):
the next 2 TUI Group Deliveries will be to other airlines in the group with 2 more arriving to TOM early next year

I cannot remember where I read it but I seem to recall one of these (TUI-E??) will be registered to Thomson and flown by UK crews but will be based out of Scandinavia flying for Tuifly Nordic. I know a similar arangement runs now with the 767's as a friend of mine does these trips a lot over winter.
 
APYu
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:47 am

I think the Winter Tui Nordic programme has yet to be agreed but you are right in recent years TOM have sent aircrafts and crews out to operate some Far Eastern flights on behalf of the sister airline.

Nordic are getting their own 787s so will have their own crews at some point but not sure by when that will be.

I would imagine TOM will send some aircraft and crews there again this year but who knows if that will be 787s or 767s. TOM may want to keep the 787s for their UK programme as its doing a great job for them.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
davies2911
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:50 am

I've been watching the departures for TOM and they dont seem to be doing so bad with them compared to some airlines.

Hope i'm as lucky when I go on my first one in 8 weeks with them to PUJ.
 
gkirk
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:52 am

TOM long haul has been dropped from Bristol next summer
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mauriceb
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:04 am

Overall we will see a significant reduction in the amount of longhaul ac's in the Tui group. This is due to the fact that they expect to be able to do more rotations a week with the 787 compared to the 767's + increased amount of seats. I don't know if this reduction also counts for Thomson, but over the past few years they arleady retired quite some 767's (the 3x Arke planes are for example ex-thomson)

For example, Arke fly will replace theire 5 767's with just 3 787's.


Also the ungoing financial crisis doesn't really help
 
APYu
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:30 am

Quoting mauriceb (Reply 7):
Overall we will see a significant reduction in the amount of longhaul ac's in the Tui group. This is due to the fact that they expect to be able to do more rotations a week with the 787 compared to the 767's

I'm not sure how they can do more rotations in a week with a 787. It is after all still an aircraft and not a time machine.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
psimpson
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:07 pm

What is the position regarding B767-300 PH-OYI which i believe is now back with Thomson?
Is this aircraft returning to Thomson off lease from ARKEFLY, or will it return to ARKEFLY after winter 2013/14 program.
 
Liverpoola380
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:07 pm

Thomson have had a slow decline in passenger numbers over the past 5 years due the economic crisis.

TUI do have options for further 787's so it makes sense to shrink the fleet and then to grow and expand once the market picks up again.

I came back from CUN last week and the inbound and the oubound were both full in premium and economy as far as I could tell.
 
Luftymatt
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:57 pm

Quoting APYu (Reply 2):
787s will still be on short and medium haul duties next year in between their long haul duties

They'll be working them hard then. Good utilisation though.
chase the sun
 
planesailing
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:08 pm

Good luck to whoever takes on LA and LO! Used to cause numerous issues with their dispatch reliability!
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:24 pm

Quoting planesailing (Reply 12):
Good luck to whoever takes on LA and LO! Used to cause numerous issues with their dispatch reliability!

They'll be freighters...

To be fair, this pair were stop-gap fleet measures, taken into the FCA fleet in 2005/6 and meant to be replaced by the 787 in 2009/10. The fact they were both in service in early 2013 was nothing to do with Thomson, the original 2004 FCA order for the 787 had first deliveries due in February 2009!!

The whole FCA 767 fleet would have long-since been retired under the plan made at the time of the 787 order.

I suspect G-OBYF/G/H will stay around for a while, but relegated to short-haul and long-haul backup duties. They wouldn't be in the process of being repainted if they were not staying.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
mauriceb
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:04 pm

Quoting psimpson (Reply 9):

What is the position regarding B767-300 PH-OYI which i believe is now back with Thomson?
Is this aircraft returning to Thomson off lease from ARKEFLY, or will it return to ARKEFLY after winter 2013/14 program.

Nope, still planned for the upcomming season! Its at Shannon having a C-check.. it had the Thomson.fly titles, but that is due to the fact that the pealed off the Arke titles, because it will be repainted soon.

Quoting APYu (Reply 8):
I'm not sure how they can do more rotations in a week with a 787. It is after all still an aircraft and not a time machine.

Well, what about the fact that its a totally different aircraft, cruising at a speed which makes a difference, certainly on long flights?

The 767 cruises at 470 Kias (averags), against 490 Kias for the 787. On theire AMS-CUR-AUA-AMS schedule, it saves them about 1:30.. not to mention how much it will save them on longer flights to Oakland, Las Vegas and San Franciso. Also, when its all optimized, the 787 seems to have a lower turn around time.. So yeah, its almost a time machine compared to the 767.
 
psimpson
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:59 pm

Quoting mauriceb (Reply 14):

Thanks for the above info regarding B763 PH-OYI
It will be nice to see one of the ARKEFLY B763 repainted into the new Thomson Dreanliner livery.
 
gilesdavies
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:37 pm

Thanks for the info guys...

Enlightened me to exactly what is going on!

Was very surprised how the 767-300's are disappearing so quickly, but I suppose the 787's are here to replace them, and makes no sense keeping the old 767's in the fleet.
 
Boeing74741R
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:30 pm

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 13):
I suspect G-OBYF/G/H will stay around for a while, but relegated to short-haul and long-haul backup duties. They wouldn't be in the process of being repainted if they were not staying.

G-OBYF is still in the old Thomsonfly colours, with the red 'Thomson' titles looking very faded when I saw it today.

Aren't these aircraft in a different configuration to the 767s used on the long-hauls pre-787 deliveries? I know G-OBYF was in a single configuration way back in 2006 and used on short-hauls, though I accept things could have changed since then.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:30 pm

Quoting gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Also while on the subject of the 787, what does the future hold for Long Haul ops out of Bristol? From what I understand there were issues with the airports short 6000ft runway, as the STOL capability of the new aircraft hasn't lived up to what Boeing promised in the early days and also issues with the aircrafts far larger wingspan being accomodated at the airport. (More than happy to be corrected if this is not the case.)

The 787 was planned to operate from BRS, but then in 2010 a 767 suffered a severe landing incident which bent the fuselage, this came after what I understand was a number of other landing issues with the 767 at BRS in poor weather. After this airlines perhaps unsurprisingly got cold feet at the prospect of sending a shiny new 787 into a marginal airport for the type with a history of less than ideal weather.

To my knowledge the runway performance isn't an issue and neither is the parking - BRS can handle up to Code E aircraft and does from time to time accept Aer Lingus A332s on sporting charters. I couldn't see a situation with more than two 787 sized aircraft on the ground at any one time, which could be accommodated.


Dan  
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tomkell92
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:32 pm

Quoting Boeing74741R (Reply 17):
Aren't these aircraft in a different configuration to the 767s used on the long-hauls pre-787 deliveries? I know G-OBYF was in a single configuration way back in 2006 and used on short-hauls, though I accept things could have changed since then.

The B767-300's that are the former Thomsonfly aircraft (G-OBYF, OBYG, OBYH) are configured to 328 seats at around 32" seat pitch and are used for short haul routes. Only YG and YH are in the new colours, as YF as leaving the fleet soon. Don't be surprised to see either YG or YH operate long haul from time to time to replace the other B763's if needed.

The first Choice 767-300's (G-OOBK, BL, BM, and G-DBLA) are configured to 63 Premium class seats at around 36" seat pitch, and 195 Economy seats at around 33" seat pitch - totalling 258 seats. These aircraft currently operate long haul services from Manchester and London Gatwick, with G-DBLA usually operating as the transfer aircraft that operates from Glasgow, Birmingham, Bristol and Newcastle.

The 787 Dreamliners are configured to 47 premium seats at around 36" seat pitch and 244 seats at around 32" seat pitch. These are currently flying from Manchester, London Gatwick, East Midlands and Glasgow - along with some short haul flights being offered from Manchester.

[Edited 2013-09-28 16:33:51]
Tom Kellock
 
gkirk
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:37 am

Quoting tomkell92 (Reply 19):
The first Choice 767-300's (G-OOBK, BL, BM, and G-DBLA) are configured to 63 Premium class seats at around 36" seat pitch, and 195 Economy seats at around 33" seat pitch - totalling 258 seats. These aircraft currently operate long haul services from Manchester and London Gatwick, with G-DBLA usually operating as the transfer aircraft that operates from Glasgow, Birmingham, Bristol and Newcastle.

GLA long haul is now all 787
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hkcanadaexpat
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:56 am

Quoting tomkell92 (Reply 19):
along with some short haul flights being offered from Manchester

and short haul flights from London Gatwick

Quoting gkirk (Reply 20):
GLA long haul is now all 787

GLA 787 service ends on October 21st and EMA 787 service ends on October 23rd (at least for the Winter)
 
Boeing74741R
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:36 pm

Quoting tomkell92 (Reply 19):
The B767-300's that are the former Thomsonfly aircraft (G-OBYF, OBYG, OBYH) are configured to 328 seats at around 32" seat pitch and are used for short haul routes. Only YG and YH are in the new colours, as YF as leaving the fleet soon. Don't be surprised to see either YG or YH operate long haul from time to time to replace the other B763's if needed.

So not much has changed then as far as G-OBYF is concerned. Thanks very much for this info.   
 
mauriceb
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RE: Thomson Q&A's - Retiring/Replacing The 767/787's

Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:18 pm



Here is PH-OYI, the first 767 in the new livery, and new company name (previously ArkeFly)

Seems like PH-OYI will stay for a while