ahlfors
Posts: 1281
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2000 1:44 am

Finnair MD11?

Mon Oct 30, 2000 11:58 am

It seems as if many airlines are getting rid of their MD11s, and I was wondering if anyone knew if Finnair has a replacement in the pipeline or are they with the MD11 for the long run?
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Finnair MD11?

Mon Oct 30, 2000 6:33 pm


Hi!

I haven't seen until now Finnair really concerned with their MD11 fleet. MD11 is still a healthy airplane and I'm sure it will fly passengers for a while. Strategically I would think that Finnair should migrate soon to an Airbus product. My opinion they should buy the A330, the 300 or the 200.
Regards!
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
Triple Seven
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2000 10:04 pm

RE: Finnair MD11?

Tue Oct 31, 2000 12:32 am

At one stage, I think 1998-9, Finnair showed interest in acquiring a few more MD-11s before the line closes. Obviously this was not done. However, they are very satisfied with their current MD-11 and I doubt a replacement would come anytime soon. Like CV990 said, I think the A330/340 family would replace the MD-11 handsomely.

- Triple Seven
 
sushka
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 1999 12:33 am

RE: Finnair MD11?

Tue Oct 31, 2000 12:38 am

I think that If Finnair replaced their Md-11s then they should get 767s or A330-200s
Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
 
Hagi
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 10:57 pm

RE: Finnair MD11?

Tue Oct 31, 2000 12:41 am

I approached the airline about this issue a few weeks back and was told that the type will remain in the fleet for quite a few years yet, being a relatively new breed with an average age of roughly eight years.

In a recent poll among Finnair pilots, A330/A340 turned out most preferred for the next widebody type.

- Hagi
 
OH-LGA
Posts: 1253
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 1999 1:42 am

RE: Finnair MD-11?

Tue Oct 31, 2000 1:31 am

I asked about Finnair MD-11 replacement to my friend who works in the web division of Finnair back in July, here's what he said:

"As being too far away from the technical division or flight operations,
I do not have any internal information. My best guess is that there
is no big hurry replacing MD-11's but I believe that there is certain
wish to reduce the number of manufacturers of the fleet."

So most likely would be Airbus long-haul planes when the need for new long-haul planes arise, but that probably won't be for a couple of years yet.

Moi,
Kai
Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
 
ahlfors
Posts: 1281
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2000 1:44 am

RE: Finnair MD-11?

Tue Oct 31, 2000 3:06 am

One thibng i'm wondering is whether a 767 or 330 wil be sufficient to run for example the JFK route. Currently they have a 403 seat MD-11 on the route, and it is often near full. Can a 767 or 330 carry 400 passenger in a 2 class configuration?
http://www.finnair.com/finnair/fleet/md11.asp
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6430
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Finnair MD-11?

Tue Oct 31, 2000 4:03 am

Finland occupies a spot on this planet which for long houl routes to both east and west is not very ETOPS friendly. Therefore I doubt that we will see Finnair rush out to collect the "savings" of twins - as must be the driving force behind those ailines which sell their MD-11s during these days.
When they retire the MD-11s - which may not happen during the next 15 years - then it would be relevant to guess that they want a mix of twins and quads. It may be anything, 767, 777, 747, A330, A340-500/-600, A3XX or something which hasn't been invented yet.
Best regards, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Finnair MD11?

Tue Oct 31, 2000 4:20 am


Hi!

Finnair is at this moment replacing their short/medium haul fleet with A319/320/321, I feel that in a horizon not so far away ( 15 years looks too much for me!!! ) they must withdraw they MD11's, it cheapper, it convenient and it's the next step to put " an all cockpit layout " mentallity. So I'm sure that in 2 or 3 years they will change! Also I believe they're also looking to their neighbour SAS that is stepping up for the Airbus soon!
Regards!
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
Joge
Posts: 1386
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2000 3:26 am

RE: Finnair MD11?

Tue Oct 31, 2000 5:13 am

Hi,

I have just few words to say: I hope they wont ever sell away these beautiful aircrafts (the possibility of freighter conversion?)


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-Joge
Bula!
 
kaitak
Posts: 8969
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: A330-200 . . .

Tue Oct 31, 2000 5:37 am

Much as Finnair might like their MD11s, the reality is that the rest of their fleet is (or is becoming) Airbus and the MD11 will not be easily disposed of if chances are not taken as they arise. I would think that AY would see the recent UPS intention to acquire secondhand MD11s as very positive; FedEx seems to have stopped buying secondhand aircraft and if an offer were made or if AY could be persuaded to let its MD11s go (even if it were 2-4 years down the road), in exchange for new A330s or A340s, they may well take that option.

Also, the point about SAS is well taken. As good an airline as AY is, the airline will face heavy competition from SAS's new fleet and all the new toys like PTVs. It may well be that AY would consider it not worth their while to spend money doing this on aircraft which may well end up as freighters.

The likely types? Obviously, the A330/340 are far ahead of the game, but as to which model, the A330-200 would probably allow the airline to increase frequencies on certain routes and maybe even restart routes which the MD11 could not operate economically. The A340-300X could be used for routes which are well established, such as Beijing, New York or Tokyo.
 
Jormy
Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2000 4:36 am

RE: Ahlfors

Tue Oct 31, 2000 7:07 am

Finnair has only one MD-11 in 403 seat configuration (OH-LGD) and that is nowadays used only for charters.
OH-LGB and OH-LGC are used only for scheduled traffic like JFK, BKK, NRT and they both seat approx. 300 pax.
OH-LGA is used for both charters and scheduled traffic and the seating configuration in that a/c propably is changed quite often...

-Janne
Helsinki, Finland
 
OH-LGA
Posts: 1253
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 1999 1:42 am

RE: Finnair MD11?

Tue Oct 31, 2000 7:50 am

Kaitak brings up a good point, Finnair though operates few intercontinental routes. But I could see a niche that would work VERY nicely to Finnair (and oneworld's) benefit.

Let's say that 5 years down the road, Finnair decides to replace their MD-11's (but placing an order sometime in the near future, 1-2 years) and chooses the A330/340. Let's also say (hypothetically) that Finnair decides to ramp up their long-haul ops.

A330-200 - Finnair places 4 firm orders
A340-500 - Finnair places 4 firm orders
A340-300 - Finnair places 4 firm orders

OK, Finnair places an order for 12 A330/340's. Notice I've tripled Finnair's current long-haul fleet. 

The A330's can be used on Helsinki - N. American flights (also includes possibilities to reopen SFO, MIA, YYZ, perhaps add 2x daily to JFK)

The A340-300's can be used on Helsinki - Asia routes (BJS, BKK/SIN, NRT) and can possibly venture into opening other routes (such as reinstating KIX, HKG, SHA)

The A340-500's would be Finnair's flagship. This ultra-long range plane would be able to make a non-stop Helsinki - Sydney flight. Forget the Kangaroo Route, just hop up to Helsinki and off to Sydney!

It's also shorter, LHR-HEL-SYD being 17001km and LHR-SIN-SYD being 17156km (ok not a whole lot) but Helsinki has 15 min. connection times, and it's rated as highly as Singapore.

Comments welcome, even if this plan does go down in flames 

Moi,
Kai
Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
 
Hagi
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 10:57 pm

Jormy

Tue Oct 31, 2000 9:08 pm

You said "Olga" has a variable seat configuration. How do they do it? Take the business class seats off from the forward section and put coach seats instead? This must be time-consuming and only happen every so often.

- Hagi
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: 333/343 Seating Capacity

Tue Oct 31, 2000 10:15 pm

LTU put up to 387 pax into their 330-300. That must be close to the maximum, but they do 2-4-2 and not 3-3-3 which would be possible as well.
The 340-300 capacity would be identical.
Daniel 
 
killjoy
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 1999 6:00 am

Kai

Wed Nov 01, 2000 1:14 am

Couldn't use "OH-LGA" as the topic since there are people talking about that particular plane at the same time   ...

Anyway, I doubt that tripling Finnair's long haul fleet would be a sustainable move unless they started flying long haul from ARN as well. This, however, would IMHO be a smart move in any case, so your idea isn't totally impossible.

The new direct flight to Sydney is something I myself have also thought about every once in a while. It sounds like a good idea, but would work only if the other oneworld partners could route enough passengers through HEL (like you suggested), since I doubt that it would be economical using only Finnair's own client base. I hope I'm wrong, though.

Doubling the frequency of flights to JFK is an interesting thought, but I'd much rather see a direct flight to ORD added. The current switch in NY is troublesome to say the least, mostly because of the probable JFK-LGA transfer.

Too bad I personally prefer the MD-11 over the other types, but I guess it was just a matter of time after Boeing bought MDC. Oh well, I guess we'll at least get better onboard entertainment with new planes...  
 
Joge
Posts: 1386
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2000 3:26 am

Airsicknessbag

Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:15 am

Hi,

Airsicknessbag wrote:
-------------------------------
LTU put up to 387 pax into their 330-300.

That's true. The 330-200 / -300 would be the right choice for charter flights, and because of the similarities with the A340, the A340 could fly the long haul flights, and why not vice versa. And one more good reason is, that we now already have Airbusses.


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-Joge
Bula!
 
pat
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2000 7:26 am

RE: Finnair MD11?

Wed Nov 01, 2000 9:11 am

Well I'm not a real fan of Finnair and neither of MD11's ( say what you want but they often have tech. probs ).

I have no doubt that Finnair - AY - is quite a good company but who the f... will fly Finnair excepted people from Finland ?

Moreover, FA's are not very, very friendly - colder than an ice cube... :-(

To resume, AY is may be a good company but doesn't sound very attractive to a lot of people. By ex. who would fly AY from JFK to HEL and then HEL - LHR or BRU or MAD ?

They are not attractive at all on the actual European - American markets...

Sorry folks!



Pat
 
ahlfors
Posts: 1281
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2000 1:44 am

Reply To Pat

Wed Nov 01, 2000 12:14 pm

actually, they do a lot of connecting service from JFK via HEL to east european destinations, such as Moscow, St. Petersburg, Talling, Riga, Vilnius, Warsaw, etc.
 
Hagi
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 10:57 pm

RE: Reply To Pat #2

Wed Nov 01, 2000 6:33 pm

Finnair's transatlantic "product" is targeted for travellers to/from Finland, Eastern Europe, Russia, and parts of Scandinavia. True, Western Europe is too much off this route to make it an attractive choice there. Likewise, flying from Finland to say LHR for a connection to Bangkok sounds ridiculous.

- Hagi