iowaman
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What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:41 pm

Due to length of part three here is part four.

Part three: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3 (by iowaman May 13 2013 in Civil Aviation)
 
ATLFlyer323
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:44 am

I'm going on what MasseyBrown said on the 3rd thread about CPE's. How can CLE get that number down? Is it done through pay reductions or staff layoff only or are their other factors like getting more retail space rented that brings more revenue to the airport so they can cut deals in other areas? I'm not familiar with how this works, so I'm just asking as a curious mind.

Being new to the NE Ohio area I enjoy using both CAK and CLE. CAK is an awesome little airport and CLE has been a nice hub base when I needed more options on flights and times.

-ATLFlyer323
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fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:20 pm

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 1):
I'm going on what MasseyBrown said on the 3rd thread about CPE's. How can CLE get that number down?

Some of it surely rests on going from 13mm pax to 9mm. I just checked the CLE website and no 2013 pax updates since Jan. Anyone have any updates? Hopefully an increase vs. previous years to help get costs down.
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:27 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 2):
Anyone have any updates? Hopefully an increase vs. previous years to help get costs down.

According to http://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp

Traffic (domestic only) for the twelve months ending June 2013 was 8,462,000 down slightly by 23, 000 from June, 2012. Traffic declined less than capacity, thus producing higher load factors. There is deductive evidence that O&D actually increased, so the slight loss is attributable to UA deliberately reducing connecting traffic over CLE.

The decline in CLE traffic since the UA/CO merger was proposed (CO started cuts before the merger was consumated) has been the major contributor to the huge rise in CPE, but it's not the whole story. Governments always have a *really* hard time bringing down costs, which is what CLE needs to do. Costs have declined *much* less than traffic. But, as I said, it's hard to cut. For example, how much can you reduce the CLE fire department because traffic declined from 10MM to 8MM? Answer: almost nothing. It's the same with all airside expenses.

I wonder how much of the City Hall Port Control Department is charged against the airport that could be charged against other functions. The top is always a place to start looking.  
 
fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:02 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 3):
I wonder how much of the City Hall Port Control Department is charged against the airport that could be charged against other functions. The top is always a place to start looking.

Or at least charged to the biggest albatross of them all BURKE! In all seriousness, they will need to do their best to cut costs to be competitive down the line. What options are realistic? Mothball Concourse A?

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 3):
Traffic (domestic only) for the twelve months ending June 2013 was 8,462,000 down slightly by 23, 000 from June, 2012. Traffic declined less than capacity, thus producing higher load factors.

In prior posts, we were seeing greater international traffic, I guess that's the only way CLE will grow in 2013.
 
cle757
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:25 pm

It would be nice to see the city give some sort of an incentive for UA to add LHR or FRA, but maybe UA is just not interested in CLE.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:51 pm

Quoting cle757 (Reply 5):
It would be nice to see the city give some sort of an incentive for UA to add LHR or FRA, but maybe UA is just not interested in CLE.

Apparently the city is willing to put up the seed money for Cleveland-Europe (via the St. Lawrence Seaway) container ships. Maybe if that works out, they can try seeding some air service next.  

In other Cleveland aviation news, Kenn Ricci's empire just grew again, acquiring Avionics Supply, of Denton, Tx, via Resilience Capital Fund III. Resilience is fund that buys, fixes up, and sells smallish companies lately all aviation-related. This acquisition is apparently intended to work with, and perhaps become a part of Directioal Aviation's Aerospace Products, Intl. (another Ricci company) along with Nextant, Constant, Flight Options, Sentient, FlexJet, etc..
 
ATLFlyer323
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:28 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 4):
What options are realistic? Mothball Concourse A?

I believe *don't kill me if I'm wrong* the international gate(s?) and customs facility is done through Terminal A. So they would have to fix that before they could mothball Terminal A. I know CLE isn't a major international gateway, but there is seasonal/charter flights that use the customs facility at times. They would have better luck maybe mothballing B? I don't see CLE needing 4 concourses if UA continues to cut flights.

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mbm3
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:27 pm

Quoting cle757 (Reply 5):
It would be nice to see the city give some sort of an incentive for UA to add LHR or FRA, but maybe UA is just not interested in CLE.

It is not a matter of incentive or potential revenue - the cargo alone would most likely make the FRA profitable - but rather that 1970s embarrassment of a customs/immigration facility in Terminal A. It was a logistical & customer service nightmare when CO had the CDG / LHR flights on the 752s and the notion of using a 767 is not something even UA will consider as it simply will not work. There is not enough space for that volume of passengers and premium passengers will not tolerate the minibus to baggage claim....
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joeman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:42 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 4):
we were seeing greater international traffic, I guess that's the only way CLE will grow in 2013.

Long live the other UA and other carrier hubs with CLE support

Quoting mbm3 (Reply 8):
that 1970s embarrassment of a customs/immigration facility in Terminal A.

Can hardly believe a 1 or 2 gate improvement is not a priority

Quoting cle757 (Reply 5):
It would be nice to see the city give some sort of an incentive for UA to add LHR or FRA, but maybe UA is just not interested in CLE.

I agree but one way cash and prizes have gotten kinda old by now
 
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mbm3
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:52 pm

Quoting joeman (Reply 9):
Can hardly believe a 1 or 2 gate improvement is not a priority

It is not the gates that is an issue, it is finding a better location for the FIS facility that is larger, has modern equipment and does not require ALL passengers to clear TSA inspection. The later is why CO knocked a hole in the wall and bused passengers to baggage claim during the last year of TATL service.

Prior to the mergers, CO was enticing NW to move to Terminal A so they could have all of Terminal C and potentially work with the airport to open a new FIS near C4. NW balked as they didn't want their premium pax to be so far away from the Presidents Club....

Fast forward to today and it is my understanding that a new FIS facility is being considered near the location of the current ATC tower, which means it could be made accessible to gates in B & C and provide direct access to the arrivals area. This will, of course, will require the new tower to be completed, the old tower demolished and federal funding being made available....

Oh, and contrary to all of the CLE gloom and doom naysayers, the rumor of CLE-TLV was indeed more fact than fiction. As someone who went through the current facility with the CGG, LHR and CUN flights all landing within the same hour, the thought of a packed 777 offloading at the end of Terminal A makes me shudder.
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masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:31 pm

Quoting mbm3 (Reply 10):
Fast forward to today and it is my understanding that a new FIS facility is being considered near the location of the current ATC tower,

My hope is that the city and UA, when the UA directors meet next June in CLE, will announce a new FIS project along with a UA committment for restoration of CLE-Europe service in the spring of 2015. At the pace of progress these days, the FIS couldn't possibly be ready for summer 2015 flights, but maybe UA would put up with the old facility for a year or so.
 
fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:40 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 11):
My hope is that the city and UA, when the UA directors meet next June in CLE, will announce a new FIS project along with a UA committment for restoration of CLE-Europe service in the spring of 2015. At the pace of progress these days, the FIS couldn't possibly be ready for summer 2015 flights, but maybe UA would put up with the old facility for a year or so.

Sure hope that is right - seems plausible since the BOD is coming to town. A 2 class 763 to FRA including the air freight should be a winner. All those trucking companies that shuttle things to ORD and NYC for air freight will be at a loss. On the positive side, should save a day's transit for CLE airfreight customers, not to mention the pax not having to go via EWR!
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:50 pm

During the UA Q3 conference call a question was asked about shifting resources from hub to hub. Smisek's only reply was "Every hub has to earn its right to be a hub every day." This isn't any different from what he has said in the past and there was no discussion of relative hub profitability except a hint that EWR was seeing weaker O&D performance (transcon in particular) and was looking at more connecting traffic especially transatlantic. That development argues against any transatlantic flights for CLE.
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:57 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 13):

I see the point that Smisek said, I wonder how IAH has done this quarter.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:05 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 3):
There is deductive evidence that O&D actually increased, so the slight loss is attributable to UA deliberately reducing connecting traffic over CLE.

If O&D is increasing, the airport has a better chance of increasing it's revenue from parking. Also, what about taxes on rental cars? Don't some of the taxes on cars rented at the airport provide revenue for the airport? Obviously, connecting passengers flying through CLE don't pay to park, nor do they rent cars. O&D passengers do (at least some of them.) The more non-airline revenue the airport can raise from things like parking and rental car taxes, the less CLE will have to charge the airlines. That should bring the airline's costs down.

LoneStarMike

[Edited 2013-10-24 10:43:17]
 
cle757
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:36 pm

With the high airfares out of CLE you would think UA would add some mainline flights, like CLE-SAN.
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masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:04 pm

More about UA hubs in this Bloomberg report:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...ave-hubs-hurt-too?campaign_id=yhoo

Interesting that the report disparages legacy-UA hubs.
 
joeman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:18 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 13):
a hint that EWR was seeing weaker O&D performance (transcon in particular) and was looking at more connecting traffic especially transatlantic. That development argues against any transatlantic flights for CLE.

Certainly does. Basically, make the almighty NYC/EWR and ORD work at any expense, that is CLE expense in the UA case
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:02 pm

The IATA slot conference, whereat the airlines firm up their summer transatlantic schedules, is in Ft. Worth TX 14-17 November this year. We should announcements of Summer 2014 plans beginning a week or so later. I don't have any hopes for CLE this year, but next year ... maybe ...
 
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mbm3
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:35 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 11):
My hope is that the city and UA, when the UA directors meet next June in CLE, will announce a new FIS project along with a UA committment for restoration of CLE-Europe service in the spring of 2015. At the pace of progress these days, the FIS couldn't possibly be ready for summer 2015 flights, but maybe UA would put up with the old facility for a year or so.

I agree!

Quoting cle757 (Reply 16):
With the high airfares out of CLE you would think UA would add some mainline flights, like CLE-SAN.

CLE-SAN is on and off the schedule, I am sure dictated by some arrangement with a cruise line.
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cle757
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:27 pm

http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...pe_express_has_b.html#incart_river Business in CLE seems to be really picking up, the new medical mart,convention center and finally new hotels!..I hope United has noticed!
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
joeman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:48 pm

Quoting cle757 (Reply 21):
http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...pe_express_has_b.html#incart_river Business in CLE seems to be really picking up, the new medical mart,convention center and finally new hotels!..I hope United has noticed!

EXCELLENT news on direct Cleveland-Europe shipping via sea in the article and citing the latest local improvements!
 
cle757
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:42 am

With the recent tarmac delay fines maybe UA should consider adding flights at CLE.
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joeman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:18 am

Quoting cle757 (Reply 23):
With the recent tarmac delay fines maybe UA should consider adding flights at CLE.

Couldn't help think and laugh at the same thing, and contemplate my last CLE-LAS itinerary via ORD (cheaper fare than nonstop) horror experience, but:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 13):
a hint that EWR was seeing weaker O&D performance (transcon in particular) and was looking at more connecting traffic especially transatlantic.

....they already have flight saturation at EWR too so it can probably only be enhanced by better marketing/service and or lower fares (not sure how...I've flown CLE-MCO via EWR for substantially less than their smathering of uncompetitive nonstop CLE-MCO service for example), or diverting available connecting traffic from nearby IAD, ORD or naturally CLE which has already relinguished more than its fair share. But the other three have to work simply because they are who they are and according to above UA may already be be giving their little CLE EAS routes to IAD in the near future.

I'll believe UA dedication when I see it, and reinstating a couple routes for an undetermined length of time, calling them new, and cutting others doesn't really fit the bill. I've sure gone via ORD, EWR and IAD a lot for a "hub" in my own back yard and I'm not talking to international destinations or cow town USA.
 
joeman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:34 am

CLE supporters should check out the thread: Hubs Hurting UA's Financial Performance?

Guess it isn't all about CLE being a drag, but now that Smisek has expanded his CLE remarks to "earn it's right to be a hub" to include the other hubs, I wonder how much ORD and EWR have to do so when UA throws as many assets into them as seemingly possible, and a good portion has been at the expense of the "profitable" (per article) CO CLE hub, both pre and post merger.
 
cle757
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:39 pm

http://www.clevelandplusbusiness.com...-Northeast-Ohio-Jobs-Expected.aspx
Well it seems like things in the Cleveland area are improving, so hopefully more jobs = more people flying
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masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:06 am

There has been some management turnover at Silver which has spawned a new flock of new rumors. The talk is that crew domiciles will be relocated to hubs instead of spoke cities. At the moment CLE is one of the prospective domiciles, contingent on a longer term retention of the Beeches. Exactly when this is supposed to happen is not certain; within six months is the story.

Apparently, the "annoying problem" with CLE and the Beeches is: CLE is profitable, while much of the rest of the Saab-based system isn't - or isn't consistently. Until Silver gets the Saabs running more reliably (and profitably) they need the Beeches to keep some cash flowing. Long-term this is not a secure future for Silver's CLE operations, but it's a better rumor than the last one.
 
joeman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:32 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 27):
Apparently, the "annoying problem" with CLE and the Beeches is: CLE is profitable

I wonder if there's any other industry where profit centers are considered in such a way and if this is a problem for UA as well.
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:02 pm

Quoting joeman (Reply 28):
Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 27):
Apparently, the "annoying problem" with CLE and the Beeches is: CLE is profitable

I wonder if there's any other industry where profit centers are considered in such a way and if this is a problem for UA as well.

My little joke ... sorry.

While CLE is profitable for Silver, it apparently isn't profitable enough to make two aircraft types an efficient operation over the long term. CLE needs to be profitable as a Saab hub; and in order for that to work for Silver, UA needs to expand its hub capacity to pull in more feed on the Saabs.
 
joeman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:14 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 29):
My little joke ... sorry.

And my little sarcasm, I totally understand. It's just that there's been some suggestion by others on CLE threads in the past that the gradual reduction beginning after the green light for a new runway and inconsistent service at CLE seemed a deliberate way of slowly killing it to justify a shift of ops and that perhaps a prerequisite to UA merger were further reductions to better enhance ORD...I believe it.
 
fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:48 am

Effective October 29, 2013 all Air Canada departures will now depart from Concourse D gate 21.

Hard to believe they gave up that gem they used to have!
 
cle757
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:42 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 31):
Effective October 29, 2013 all Air Canada departures will now depart from Concourse D gate 21.

Hard to believe they gave up that gem they used to have!

And C-21 has already had lines repainted for larger aircraft
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ATLFlyer323
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:36 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 31):
Hard to believe they gave up that gem they used to have!


Pardon my ignorance, what was great about their gate before? I don't know.  

-ATLFlyer323
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fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:20 pm

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 33):
Pardon my ignorance, what was great about their gate before? I don't know.

I did not know they moved to C 21. Their old one require you to walk down stairs, onto the tarmac onto the plane. Brutal in the CLE winter. Haven't flown AC in two years or so, so this is the 2nd move in some time for them.

Must suggest that UA needs more room for mainline flights?
 
ATLFlyer323
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:57 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 34):
Must suggest that UA needs more room for mainline flights?

Ha, you're so funny!   One could always hope... but I don't think that's the case. UA has plenty of gates to fit their mainline flights.... or at least it seems that way anytime I have flown out of CLE.

-ATLFlyer323
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N766UA
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:28 am

Has anyone commented on the gradual buildup of E170 flying? I noticed that DFW and BDL got added recently; certainly upgrades from the all-ERJ service they've had for a long time. I've always thought the 170 would be a good fit for a lot of CLE markets.
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fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:03 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 36):
Has anyone commented on the gradual buildup of E170 flying?

I saw 3x to BOS + AUS. As the 50 seaters are retired, we should see more of this. I do wonder why UA does not take the philosophy that DL took w/these 70 seat a/c. I thought DL did a good job stating certain routes (ORD>LGA) would all have first class seats and use them exclusively on the route. I think that would help out BOS, LGA and ATL from CLE. I think it would also help out DFW so you don't have to choose from brand new AA A319's or 3 hours in a RJ on UA.

I have noticed the increase in CRJ flying - not a fan of those planes. Any reason why? Not a big fan.

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 35):
Ha, you're so funny! One could always hope

At least they restriped it for larger a/c!
 
ATLFlyer323
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:02 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 36):
I've always thought the 170 would be a good fit for a lot of CLE markets.

And they are wonderful aircraft, I actually prefer the 170's over 737 and 320's! No middle seat!

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 37):
At least they restriped it for larger a/c!

Very true!

-ATLFlyer323
Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:37 pm

DL has been operating a bunch of charters out of CLE with 88xx flight numbers in the last week to BWI (763), MIA (319), SLC (319), DTW (763) ... The one to 767 to BWI - ok, I got that as the Ravens slink home and maybe DTW was a ferry flight after dropping them off, but the 319's are a mystery. I can't seem to trace them to athletic teams coming/going. Anybody know what these were?
 
fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:05 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 39):
DL has been operating a bunch of charters out of CLE with 88xx flight numbers in the last week to BWI (763), MIA (319), SLC (319), DTW (763) ... The one to 767 to BWI - ok, I got that as the Ravens slink home and maybe DTW was a ferry flight after dropping them off, but the 319's are a mystery. I can't seem to trace them to athletic teams coming/going. Anybody know what these were?

CAVS were out of town in CLT and IND.

From last week's trip to CLE, I see that the uncovered long term parking is nearly done. Good timing, it snowed last week in CLE. Sure to be a favorite of the local traveler.
 
chrisjake
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:48 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 39):
DL has been operating a bunch of charters out of CLE with 88xx flight numbers in the last week to BWI (763), MIA (319), SLC (319), DTW (763) ... The one to 767 to BWI - ok, I got that as the Ravens slink home and maybe DTW was a ferry flight after dropping them off, but the 319's are a mystery. I can't seem to trace them to athletic teams coming/going. Anybody know what these were?

The Miami charter was the Brooklyn Nets going to their next game after playing at CLE. Maybe the SLC charter was a ferry flight also?

Chris
 
cle757
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:21 pm

Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:27 pm

Do you really want *those* conventions? Seems as if most cities regret it after getting them. Even upfront the host cities often admit they do it for 'prestige' purposes and expect to lose money.

Diff subj:

RPA5828 E190 Gulfport-Biloxi Intl (KGPT) 11:17a EST 12:16p CST

Interesting. Casino charter on a Tuesday? Seems as if the CLE charter business is growing again.
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:03 pm

It's apparently official: Silver has made CLE a crew domicile.
 
ATLFlyer323
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:25 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 44):
It's apparently official: Silver has made CLE a crew domicile.

This is great news, does that mean we can expect more flights out of CLE on Silver, or just expect to hopefully not lose any?
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masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:59 pm

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 45):
This is great news, does that mean we can expect more flights out of CLE on Silver, or just expect to hopefully not lose any?

Silver had been basing its crews in outstations instead of hubs, which they felt saved them some hotel bills. The crews, however, hated it because, if they were commuters (as many are), it took extra time to commute to Bradford, PA (example) since they had to fly through CLE to get there. Domiciling in CLE means they save one leg of the commute. Some may actually move to CLE (it's a low cost area for relatively low-paid regional airline crews) but for most it will simply be a big, time-saving convenience.

What I take from the news is that Silver expects to stay in CLE for a while, or they would have left it off the list of new domiciles. Domiciling does not necessarily mean more flights, although it might make adding flights easier at some future time.

Edit: Silver's motive was to improve pilot retention and enhance crew satisfaction and quality of life at relatively low cost.

[Edited 2013-11-06 11:03:03]
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:01 pm

 
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mbm3
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:54 am

RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:31 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 47):
Frontier adding CLE-TTN flights February 13th



One wonders if this will affect the DEN service?
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
 
freeze3192
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:04 am

RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 4

Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:42 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 34):
I did not know they moved to C 21. Their old one require you to walk down stairs, onto the tarmac onto the plane. Brutal in the CLE winter. Haven't flown AC in two years or so, so this is the 2nd move in some time for them.

?

They moved to D21, which will require the same thing. The prop on the Dash 8 100/200/300 is too close to the door to allow using a jetway.

Plus all of the gates at D17/21/25/28 require going down stairs and walking on the ramp to the airplane. Nothing new for CLE.
"A passenger bets his life that his pilot is a worthy heir to an ancient tradition of excellence and professionalism."

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