iowaman
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787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:56 pm

Previous thread: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 22 (by 777ER Oct 18 2013 in Civil Aviation)
 
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United787
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:48 am

As always, thank you to All Things 787 (NYC777) and others for the information that is summarized here.

DELIVERED TO DATE: 100 Aircraft to 16 Airlines

DELIVERIES PRIOR TO NOVEMBER
NH-23; JL-11; AI-9; QR-9; UA–7; ET-5; LO-5; LA-5; CZ-5; BY-4; BA-4; HU-3; AM-3; DY-2; BI-2; JQ-1

NOVEMBER DELIVERIES TO DATE
L/N 32 - VT-ANG – 11/4/2013 - AI #10
L/N 20 – JA821J – 11/4/2013 - JL #12

AIRCRAFT THAT HAVE COMPLETED MAJOR ASSEMBLY & CHANGE INCORPORATION*
L/N 124 - N27908 - UA #8
L/N 125 – JA833J - JL #13
L/N 85 - B–2730 - HU #4
L/N 104 - B-2737 – CZ #6 or 7
L/N 36 - B-2726 – CZ #6 or 7
L/N 131 - B-2731 – HU #5
L/N 136 - EI-LNC - DY #3
L/N 134 – VH-VKB – JQ #2
L/N 119 - B-2735 – CZ #8
L/N 30 - VT-ANEAI #11 Awaiting first flight
L/N 132 - JA824A - NH #24 Awaiting first flight
L/N 129 - A7-BCH – QR #10 Awaiting first flight
L/N 79 - B-2729 – HU #6 Awaiting first flight
L/N 137 – OO-JDL - TB #1 Awaiting first flight
L/N 135 - N26909 - UA #9 Awaiting first flight
L/N 141 – A6-??? - UAE Presidential Flight (ILFC) Awaiting first flight

*Not including the delivered aircraft and test aircraft (ZA001-006 & ZB001-002, 021)
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:56 am

Photo of ZB002 N789FT from yesterday, Photo by Matt Cawby:

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2877/10719250343_9321032d4c_b.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/microvolt/10719250343/in/photostream//
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pdxswa
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:24 am

LAN Airlines CC-BBD long since delivered. However at the time sitting on the PAE flight line engineless.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bill Shemley

 
PHX787
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:34 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 1):
L/N 20 – JA821J – 11/4/2013 - JL #12

Damn it she left, huh?

I can't see her land at HND   
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:36 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
Damn it she left, huh?

It's still parked at the delivery center.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:39 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):
It's still parked at the delivery center.

Ah alright, sorry for flipping out   If her ETA at HND is before 4:45 PM I can easily spot her landing.
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:05 am

Here's a nice picture of ZB002, taken yesterday:


N789FT by Powercube, on Flickr
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:14 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
Ah alright, sorry for flipping out   If her ETA at HND is before 4:45 PM I can easily spot her landing.

There hasn't been a single JAL 787 delivery to HND so i don't see why this one would be any different.
ANA delivers to HND. JAL to NRT.
A
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:30 pm

Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:39 pm

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 8):
There hasn't been a single JAL 787 delivery to HND so i don't see why this one would be any different.

I see    I'm not sure if I should fork over the ¥3000 N'EX ticket or not....lol

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 9):
ZB002 will try it again in about 2 hours:

I haven't been following well enough; has this one flown yet or not
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:52 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):
I haven't been following well enough; has this one flown yet or not

No, it hasn't yet flown. Hopefully she'll be up today.
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:24 pm

ANA JA803A (LN7, the first 787 production frame) now titled "Inspiration of Japan".


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Yoshio Yamagishi

Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
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kanban
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:02 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 9):
ZB002 will try it again in about 2 hours:

forecasts are from high winds and a lot of torrential rain today for the next 6 hours.. I wouldn't bet on any test flights..
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:13 pm

ZB002 is up and flying
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:17 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 13):
a lot of torrential rain today for the next 6 hours.

Two words: water injection!

or, maybe she'll stay up for 6 hours and come back dry?
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:41 pm

It looks like the plan is at least 5 hours to MWH.

I find it surprising that ZB002 is flying at over 520 kts and at 39,000 feet. That does not sound anything like a first flight to me. Could flightaware have this wrong? Its been knows to happen. ZB001 maybe?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B.../20131107/1500Z/KPAE/KMWH/tracklog


tortugamon
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:50 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 16):

Fr24 is showing the same thing:

http://www.flightradar24.com/BOE2
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:05 pm

Most of you have been following this more than have so don't flame me-

Why would any customer chose the 8 as opposed to the 9 now for delvieries when one could get the 9? How much more is the sticker price for the 9 and does it have signficantly hihger operating costs?-Presumably the only additonal operating cost would be the delta in fuel?
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:17 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 16):
I find it surprising that ZB002 is flying at over 520 kts and at 39,000 feet. That does not sound anything like a first flight to me. Could flightaware have this wrong? Its been knows to happen. ZB001 maybe?

It's definitely ZB002. They don't need to be as conservative here as they did for either the second 787-8 or the first 787-9. A production frame would typically reach these speeds/altitudes on its maiden flight.

Edit: ZA234 (AI LN30) also finally made it up this morning, after two failed attempts.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...4/history/20131107/1730Z/KPAE/KMWH

[Edited 2013-11-07 09:19:54]
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:26 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 16):
It looks like the plan is at least 5 hours to MWH.

I find it surprising that ZB002 is flying at over 520 kts and at 39,000 feet. That does not sound anything like a first flight to me. Could flightaware have this wrong? Its been knows to happen. ZB001 maybe?


ZB001 cleared the envelope, ZB002 can go right to work (B-1 profile, etc). The FAA may require 5 hours prior to landing at BFI which may account for the longer flight than just a B-1 profile or they may just have a lot of extra test conditions.
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:35 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 17):
Fr24 is showing the same thing:
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 19):
A production frame would typically reach these speeds/altitudes on its maiden flight.

I sure was expecting a more gradual introduction. But they have some solid confidence, good for them.

Quoting ultrapig (Reply 18):
Why would any customer chose the 8 as opposed to the 9 now for delvieries when one could get the 9?

Many here think that the order book will transition to reflect a heavier concentration of -9s to -8s. We have already seen this transition happen with orders from AC and Air Berlin (not firmed) and others. The costs too fly a -9 will not but that much higher than a -8.

Quoting ultrapig (Reply 18):
How much more is the sticker price for the 9 and does it have signficantly hihger operating costs?

Difference is about $37.7 Million
http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/prices/

The reasons to buy the 787-8 are primarily because you do not think you can fill a 789 and therefore don't want to pay the higher price and the fuel burn of empty seats. There are a lot of 763s out there and a 787-8 is a step up in capacity as is. Likewise, A332 operators that are comfortable with its capacity will prefer the 787-8. If the additional seats come very cheaply this may be limited as we see with the larger single aisle aircraft. However, once the improvements in the -9 are backflowed into the -8 this delta between fuel burn could widen making a 788 more appealing.

Also, there are a significant amount of LCC/Charter airlines that fit their aircraft with higher seat counts: JQ at 335 seats for example. Other examples at DY/LionAir/TUI/Scoot where they are going to fill these 787-8s with large seat counts and where the 789 will be 50-60 more seats (nearly 400) in their configuration and therefore just plain too big for their business model. I believe these type of customers will keep the 788 relevant even if order numbers are low.

The 787-8 appears to be in a market all by itself with nothing even planned to compete with it even on the horizon. That is truly a rare thing. Even if the market is small, 100% of it should make it do just fine even if many don't agree with me.

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 20):
ZB001 cleared the envelope, ZB002 can go right to work (B-1 profile, etc). The FAA may require 5 hours prior to landing at BFI which may account for the longer flight than just a B-1 profile or they may just have a lot of extra test conditions.

As always, thank you for the insight.

tortugamon
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:00 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 21):
The 787-8 appears to be in a market all by itself with nothing even planned to compete with it even on the horizon. That is truly a rare thing. Even if the market is small, 100% of it should make it do just fine even if many don't agree with me.

I'm still waiting to see if airlines like Alaska, Southwest, or even Ryanair
might decide to take the widebody plunge with 788's

Would be quite a sight seeing WN 787's at HOU's new intl terminal

and/or AS 788's at Sea-Tac
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:13 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):
It's still parked at the delivery center.

Has JAL line #20 left Everett yet?
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:17 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 23):
Has JAL line #20 left Everett yet?

Nope, Was moved from the delivery center to stall 107:

http://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/398510011116027904
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:23 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 24):
Nope, Was moved from the delivery center to stall 107:

So the much discussed delivery #100 never took place? How embarrassing to Boeing that they picked an a/c that could not leave
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:44 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 22):
I'm still waiting to see if airlines like Alaska, Southwest, or even Ryanair
might decide to take the widebody plunge with 788's

How about adding B6 or EZ to the list? FR is interested:

Quote:
Mr. O'Leary said he wants to start the business in three to four years but said the current five-year backlog on deliveries of the widebody jet was holding up his decision to go ahead.

The 787 "is the perfect aircraft for long-haul low-cost trans-Atlantic travel," said Mr. O'Leary at an Airport Operators Association conference in London.

I think the growth is in Asia so if its turns into a darling for JQ/TZ/JT and the like it could be an even more successful aircraft.

The smallest aircraft that has intercontinental range should stay relevant for awhile. This is not like the 767-200 where single aisles began to have intercontinental range.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 25):
So the much discussed delivery #100

Only discussed heavily on here.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 25):
How embarrassing to Boeing that they picked an a/c that could not leave

Not embarrassing at all. We don't know the details and Boeing has not indicated anything about it being delivery #100. This appears to be a non-event to them.

tortugamon
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:58 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 26):

Not embarrassing at all. We don't know the details and Boeing has not indicated anything about it being delivery #100. This appears to be a non-event to them.

Or maybe they have something planned which is why it hasn't left...

Is it me or does Boeing seem more tight lipped as of late? I feel like we don't get as much information from A-Netter's sources as we used to...
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:27 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 25):
So the much discussed delivery #100 never took place? How embarrassing to Boeing that they picked an a/c that could not leave

It had all the appearances of a delivery: C flights, parked at the delivery center and a ferry flight to Narita scheduled the same day. I doubt JAL would do that unless they had been given the "keys." Mind you, it could have been contractual delivered and then broke down. But then again, Boeing would likely bust its balls getting it ready to fly. That it has not flown away could be a JAL decision.

Allthings787s has moved it back to "ready for delivery," so who knows whats up. He posts here often, so maybe he'll share what he knows or just note that we need proof positive before setting to delivered status.

Quoting United787 (Reply 27):
Is it me or does Boeing seem more tight lipped as of late?

Maybe they are reviewing the new contract offer. New term under productivity initiatives: No posting on A.Net or we move 777X production elsewhere?

[Edited 2013-11-07 11:30:25]

[Edited 2013-11-07 11:34:46]
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:38 pm

ZB001 was spotted on the 40-51 apron yesterday.


Boeing 787-9 by moonm, on Flickr
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:26 pm

A little over an hour ago I saw ZB002, low on approach to BFI, from a meeting room window in my office. It was the first time I'd seen a 787-9 in person, and I may have slightly disrupted the work meeting I was in at the time   . The aircraft just looks magnificent... it's making me reconsider my usual preference for the shortest version.
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:34 pm

Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
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United787
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:43 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 31):
ZB021 initial engine run today

Sounds like this may get up in the air rather quickly!
 
tortugamon
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:04 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 31):
ZB021 initial engine run today.

IIRC ZB001 and ZB002 rolled out, went into paint, then back into the FAL for testing equipment installation, then rolled out, then had an initial engine run. They must have already installed test equipment, which was certainly quicker than with the other two and it certainly didn't go into paint.

Very interesting. I was thinking they would solid if they could have all three in the air by the end of the year but now its looking like ZB197 (LN 146) has a chance to fly before year end as well.

tortugamon
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:24 pm

Boeing has posted some images of ZB002's first flight. Maybe someone with access can upload some high resolution images.

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.ph...20295&item=128864#assets_117:19334

4 Hour and 18 Minute first flight.

Boeing also added this:

"As the only 787-9 test airplane to be fitted with elements of the passenger interior, ZB002 will test systems such as the environmental control system in addition to avionics and other aspects of airplane performance. Boeing has conducted a series of ground tests on the second 787-9 since its completion in late September.
With manufacturing of the 787-9 flight-test fleet complete, the first production 787-9 in final assembly and 137 flight-test hours to date, 787-9 development is on track. 787-10 development also is progressing as planned."

Flight test fleet is complete. First customer is ANZ (LN169) but NH's 787-9 is already in production (LN146). I know this has been mentioned but why won't NH's 787-9 be delivered first? I thought it was going to have some test equipment in it but its looking like it will have a normal interior.

tortugamon
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:06 am

Quoting WarpSpeed (Reply 14):

ZB002 is up and flying

Happened to be looking out my office window in Renton about that time and caught a glimpse of it before it vanished into the clouds - first time I've seen a 789 aloft....beautiful bird.
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:03 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 34):
Maybe someone with access can upload some high resolution images.

Here you go. Click on each one to bring up the full photo:

http://paineairport.com/images/kpae9798.jpg

http://paineairport.com/images/kpae9799.jpg

Thank you Matt Cawby  http://kpae.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/paine-field-november-7.html

[Edited 2013-11-07 23:10:37]
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:35 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 33):
IIRC ZB001 and ZB002 rolled out, went into paint, then back into the FAL for testing equipment installation, then rolled out, then had an initial engine run. They must have already installed test equipment, which was certainly quicker than with the other two and it certainly didn't go into paint.

ZB021 is a light test equipment a/c, hence it needs less assembly time.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 34):
Flight test fleet is complete. First customer is ANZ (LN169) but NH's 787-9 is already in production (LN146). I know this has been mentioned but why won't NH's 787-9 be delivered first? I thought it was going to have some test equipment in it but its looking like it will have a normal interior.

LN146 is the production standard test a/c and will be used to obtain certification. It will have minimal test equipment onboard.
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NYC777
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:21 pm

ZA434 (LN 85, B-2730) is at the Charleston Delivery Center. There may be an imminent delivery of this airframe.
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:51 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 36):
Here you go.

Thank you. Did the MLG doors open on rotation again? It sure looks like it.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 37):
LN146 is the production standard test a/c and will be used to obtain certification. It will have minimal test equipment onboard.

Then I am surprised that they have said that the final assembly for the test fleet is complete. Seems contradictory.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 38):
ZA434 (LN 85, B-2730) is at the Charleston Delivery Center.

Good to see another Chinese bird go and its good to see deliveries from Charleston. Its been a long time since there were only 7 aircraft in pre-flight prep at both locations. They sure did a good job of erasing the backlog of unflown jets from the grounding.

tortugamon
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:45 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 38):
ZA434 (LN 85, B-2730) is at the Charleston Delivery Center. There may be an imminent delivery of this airframe.

Anyone know why it is going to ORD?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/C...0/history/20131108/2000Z/KCHS/KORD

tortugamon
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:50 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 40):
Anyone know why it is going to ORD?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/C.../KORD

Boeing's Corporate headquarters is in Chicago. I'm willing to bet that it'll be there for a ceremony to celebrate the deliver of the 100th 787 which, it seems, is going to Hainan.
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tortugamon
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:57 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 41):
Boeing's Corporate headquarters is in Chicago. I'm willing to bet that it'll be there for a ceremony to celebrate the deliver of the 100th 787 which, it seems, is going to Hainan.

Very interesting.

I am not sure if it is about Boeing headquarters or because its a route they just started:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...service-united-airlines-dreamliner

Regardless, it does appear to be number 100.

tortugamon
 
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seabosdca
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:48 pm

On its way to ORD. We finally have 100, for sure.

I would still like to know why JAL got as far as filing a flight plan to NRT but now their bird has been sitting on the flightline for three days.
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:23 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 43):
On its way to ORD. We finally have 100, for sure.

I would still like to know why JAL got as far as filing a flight plan to NRT but now their bird has been sitting on the flightline for three days.

Do we know for sure? I feel like we really know nothing. JL could have still taken contractual delivery of theirs before HU. I am holding out until we hear something official from Boeing.
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:20 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 39):
Then I am surprised that they have said that the final assembly for the test fleet is complete. Seems contradictory.

It's not really a test a/c, see it as a certification a/c.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:31 pm

Any updates on JL? so UA got number 100?

JL shafted again     

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 12):
ANA JA803A (LN7, the first 787 production frame) now titled "Inspiration of Japan".

This appears on a number of airplanes that NH has.
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:34 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 46):
Any updates on JL? so UA got number 100?

HU got number 100.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:44 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 47):
HU got number 100.

Aww that's anticlimactic   

I can see some chinese nationalists snickering at JL right now for getting 100 over Japan   
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 23

Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:47 pm

ZB021 engines were successfully started.

http://twitter.com/BoeingAirplanes/status/398950201882181632
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK

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