777ER
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 9875
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:17 am

First 787-9 route announced: Auckland - Perth, followed by Auckland - Tokyo and Auckland - Shanghai.. Cabin configuration will be

18 lie-flat Business Premier zone in a herringbone layout
21 premium economy (2-3-2 layout).
263 in economy, including 14 rows of 'Skycouch' (32 inch seat pitch, 17.2 inches wide).

302 seats total.

Premium Economy passengers will also finally get priority baggage treatment.

http://theflyingsocialnetwork.com/site/article/auckland-perth-787
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11153204

Economy http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/futur...t/#!experience/economy/economyseat
Economy Skycouch http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/futur...ce/economyskycouch/economyskycouch
Premium Economy http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/futur...erience/premiumeconomy/premiumseat
Business http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/futur...rience/businesspremier/premierseat

Nice to see NZ finally announce the layout and first routes. Really good to see the 787-9 won't be in much of a leisure configuration as first thought

[Edited 2013-11-06 21:38:49]
Head Forum Moderator
moderators@airliners.net for all Moderator contact
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 1900
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:26 am

302 seats? That seems a pretty dense layout aka heavy on Economy class. I suppose it could've been 31" but still that seems fairly tight.
 
qf002
Posts: 3125
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:36 am

NZ has also released images on their 787 seats:

Premium Economy
Economy, including SkyCouch

More details via AusBT
 
timb777
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:22 am

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:42 am

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
Nice to see NZ finally announce the layout and first routes. Really good to see the 787-9 won't be in much of a leisure configuration as first thought

Still, 18 business class seats is significantly less that the (smaller) 767's 24 seats.

On the other hand, the new premium economy looks great, and is what I've always thought should have been installed on the 77W instead of the gimmicky 'spaceseat'!

[Edited 2013-11-06 21:43:20]
 
RyanairGuru
Posts: 6554
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:53 am

Quoting timb777 (Reply 3):
the new premium economy looks great, and is what I've always thought should have been installed on the 77W instead of the gimmicky 'spaceseat'!

      

I could not agree more.


It's a shame that they didn't invest in a new J seat, as that model is - what - over 10 years old now?
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
bwwt
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:37 am

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:05 am

Looking good! So the space seat didn't work? I was under the impression that it was liked?
 
zkncj
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:24 am

What happened to the 789 coming in around April? or is doing AKL-SYD training flights from April to October?
 
FirstClass
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:04 am

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:26 am

I personally like the space seat on the 777 300s. It's very comfy and much more flexible than their 787 E+.
 
zkncj
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:35 am

 
keen2fly
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:10 am

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:53 am

I must say I am quite surprised that there are so few business seats, I was expecting around 24, but I guess these leisure markets won't be so business-heavy. I really like the look of the new Premium economy seats, the old "spaceseat" was just so awkward to sit in, not to mention the seat actually was quite small. This new one looks like a return to a good ol' recliner, I've always liked them. Can't help but notice the screens will be only 9" in Y, I know when the seat pitch is only 31-33" you're not going to notice that much but I think it's interesting that they didn't go for a 10" option. Anyway, not anything that deviates too much from the expected. Will be looking forward to trying it out someday.
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 2429
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:56 am

Its a pity that the black from the new livery/branding has filtered down to the cabin colour-scheme. I always thought that white looked good on the Premium Economy and Business Premier seats (as seen in the 77W).

Quoting zkncj (Reply 6):
is doing AKL-SYD training flights from April to October?

I sure hope so, or domestic. If the route is AKL-PER, tickets for the first flight (which I'd rather like to be on) will be extra expensive.  Wow!
Quoting zkncj (Reply 8):
The seat map is now online

   Economy will have a 3-3-3 configuration. A real pity considering the brilliant 2-3-2 configuration on the 767s.
First to fly the 787-9 (ZK-NZE, NZ103, 2014-10-09)
 
zkncj
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:00 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 10):
I sure hope so, or domestic. If the route is AKL-PER, tickets for the first flight (which I'd rather like to be on) will be extra expensive. Wow!

$519 on the current Tasman Sale, note the the route map for the 789 is AKL-CHC, could be for the Japan flights...
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:12 am

Quoting timb777 (Reply 3):
On the other hand, the new premium economy looks great, and is what I've always thought should have been installed on the 77W instead of the gimmicky 'spaceseat'!

Yeah, it's the same Premium Economy seat as Cathay (as I had expected all along); except unlike CX, NZ is installing proper leg rests in each seat! It'll be a really nice mini cabin. The fact that it's in the 1st section will also give it a bit more exclusivity.. And hopefully that toilet just behind 2L is only for Y+.

Quoting keen2fly (Reply 9):
I must say I am quite surprised that there are so few business seats, I was expecting around 24, but I guess these leisure markets won't be so business-heavy

Precisely why it's so densely configured..

Quoting keen2fly (Reply 9):
Can't help but notice the screens will be only 9" in Y, I know when the seat pitch is only 31-33" you're not going to notice that much but I think it's interesting that they didn't go for a 10" option.

I wonder if this is just to standardise the product in the long haul fleet, rather than to release something that is more in line with what SQ/EK/QR are now installing. But if you're complaining about the Y PTV being 9", how about the J PTV at 11" - the same size as the Y+ PTV!?

[EDIT]: after taking a closer look at the pictures, it seems like they've chosen the Panasonic eX3 product (same PTV as eXLite which CX, AA, UA and many others have chosen). Maybe the particular model doesn't have a bigger size..


Quoting zkncj (Reply 11):
note the the route map for the 789 is AKL-CHC, could be for the Japan flights...

Where's this?

[Edited 2013-11-07 00:29:38]

[Edited 2013-11-07 00:45:06]
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4999
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:49 am

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):

Nice to see NZ finally announce the layout and first routes. Really good to see the 787-9 won't be in much of a leisure configuration as first thought

I'm the opposite, I was thinking a few more J seats, so its more leisure than I expected.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 11):
note the the route map for the 789 is AKL-CHC, could be for the Japan flights...

I'm guessing once they fly to NRT it will do NRT-CHC at least seasonally like they currently do.
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:03 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 13):
I'm guessing once they fly to NRT it will do NRT-CHC at least seasonally like they currently do.

I thought NZ90 which goes NRT-CHC-AKL was year round, just on specific days.. And therefore by then, they'd have enough 787s to operate all NRT flights, including the one via CHC.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:07 am

It's fascinating that there are only 18 Business Premier seats.

It means that the 789 is probably not actually going to be able to be used for Honolulu and Papeete, because that is substantially less than current demand.

For the last 18 months there have only been a maximum of 2 award seats per flight, yet each 763 or 77E flight that I have taken to either destination has had loadings above 22/24 (763) or 23/26 (77E).

The only way they can use the 789 on those two routes is if they allow Premium Economy to cannibalise existing Business Class demand, which makes no business sense at all.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4999
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:14 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 14):

I thought NZ90 which goes NRT-CHC-AKL was year round, just on specific days.. And therefore by then, they'd have enough 787s to operate all NRT flights, including the one via CHC.

Only operates via CHC in the NZ summer.

Interesting it says NRT and PVG will be 787s by end of 2014 when 3 aircraft will be in service, those 2 routes need 3 aircraft between them, are only some flights initially going 787? Or maybe its all NRT and 3-4 weekly PVG until more 787s arrive.

Quoting koruman (Reply 15):
It means that the 789 is probably not actually going to be able to be used for Honolulu and Papeete, because that is substantially less than current demand.

Hmm, maybe more flights then, HNL mainly, I'd of thought the same of PER needing more J.
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:20 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 15):

I suppose the 789 isn't optimised for NZ's products.. Filling up the entire front section would seem to add another 12 J seats, taking the number to 30. That means pushing Y+ back behind 2L/R. Obviously doable, but maybe it'll put an emphasis on the fact that the 787 for now is only for lower yielding routes while the 772 will be on HNL/PPT etc.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7881
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:30 am

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
followed by Auckland - Tokyo

WOOOOO HOOOOOOO!!!!!!!      
This will be fun to spot! Is this going to HND or NRT?

Looks like I'm gonna have to plan a trip to AUK sometime soon  
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
RyanairGuru
Posts: 6554
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:33 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):
Is this going to HND or NRT?

NRT

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):
Looks like I'm gonna have to plan a trip to AUK sometime soon

You should go, I've heard that Alaska is nice at this time of year     
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
PHX787
Posts: 7881
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:38 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 19):
You should go, I've heard that Alaska is nice at this time of year

   whats the code for Aukland? AKL? I'm horrible with New Zealand as you can see  
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 19):
NRT

Ahhhhh.....that costs ¥3000 each direction to go to   
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
cchan
Posts: 954
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 8:54 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:45 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 6):
What happened to the 789 coming in around April? or is doing AKL-SYD training flights from April to October?

I thought the 1st 789 will be delivered in July 2014, or has that changed?

Quoting zkojq (Reply 10):
Economy will have a 3-3-3 configuration. A real pity considering the brilliant 2-3-2 configuration on the 767s.

This is worse than the 77W and 77E. The seat map only shows 34JK as the only pair in the Y cabin.
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:48 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 15):
It means that the 789 is probably not actually going to be able to be used for Honolulu and Papeete, because that is substantially less than current demand.
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 17):
I suppose the 789 isn't optimised for NZ's products.. Filling up the entire front section would seem to add another 12 J seats, taking the number to 30. That means pushing Y+ back behind 2L/R. Obviously doable, but maybe it'll put an emphasis on the fact that the 787 for now is only for lower yielding routes while the 772 will be on HNL/PPT etc.

I've been writing for years that the 789 is basically a slightly more efficient 777-200ER and the almost identical seat count for Air New Zealand basically proves it.

77E: 26 Business / 36 Premium Economy / 242 Economy (304 seats)
789: 18 Business / 21 Premium Economy / 263 Economy (302 seats)

But the very low Business Class seat count - which is perfect for Shanghai - doesn't just make it unsuitable for Honolulu and Papeete, it also makes it very marginal for Perth, where cashed up miners tend to commute from their NZ homes, taking full advantage of the bar and the beds.

Basically, for Honolulu there are three options, and only three options.

1) Run the 777-200ER three or four times weekly year round to maintain existing Business Class capacity.

2) Run the 789 five or six times weekly to maintain existing Business Class capacity, but in the process increase Economy capacity by almost 50%.

3) Run the 789 three times weekly outside the school holidays, and the 77E four times weekly during the holidays.
 
777ER
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 9875
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:48 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 20):
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 19): You should go, I've heard that Alaska is nice at this time of year
whats the code for Aukland? AKL? I'm horrible with New Zealand as you can see

Yes AKL for Auckland
Head Forum Moderator
moderators@airliners.net for all Moderator contact
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:51 am

Quoting cchan (Reply 21):
I thought the 1st 789 will be delivered in July 2014, or has that changed?

July was also what I had in mind. Even so, that's still 3 months.. Even the 77W only took about 3 weeks to start proving flights.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
keen2fly
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:10 am

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:10 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 12):
I wonder if this is just to standardise the product in the long haul fleet, rather than to release something that is more in line with what SQ/EK/QR are now installing. But if you're complaining about the Y PTV being 9", how about the J PTV at 11" - the same size as the Y+ PTV!?

The NZ 77W has the 10.6" screens in Y, so I was just intrigued as to why they decided on smaller screens this time around, not complaining, just observing, as it seems now they have done the opposite of standardising. I guess it's all down to viewing distance, because while the new Y+ screens are the same as the J screens, the Y+ will have the screen further away from the user. I guess this confirms the screen sizes in the 77E refit, as NZ have confirmed they will use the Panasonic EXLite in the 77E's.
 
CXfirst
Posts: 2920
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:13 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:20 am

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
First 787-9 route announced: Auckland - Perth

As a PER resident, I am glad to see that being confirmed. We've already had QR 787 announced, with nothing happening....

However, at the same time, it is a bit odd. When first rumoured, the 787 was slated as NZ's 767 replacement, but in this case, it will be a 77E replacement, as NZ changed PER to the 77E.

-CXfirst
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:51 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 22):
77E: 26 Business / 36 Premium Economy / 242 Economy (304 seats)
789: 18 Business / 21 Premium Economy / 263 Economy (302 seats)

Don't forget the 77E will go 10-abreast after the retrofit.

Quoting koruman (Reply 22):
it also makes it very marginal for Perth

I wonder if it's a sign for things to come in the PER market - either CHC-PER will do well to maintain a year-round service, AKL-PER will go 2x daily or QF will start year round AKL-PER flights.

Quoting keen2fly (Reply 25):
The NZ 77W has the 10.6" screens in Y, so I was just intrigued as to why they decided on smaller screens this time around, not complaining, just observing, as it seems now they have done the opposite of standardising. I guess it's all down to viewing distance, because while the new Y+ screens are the same as the J screens, the Y+ will have the screen further away from the user. I guess this confirms the screen sizes in the 77E refit, as NZ have confirmed they will use the Panasonic EXLite in the 77E's.

Having been accustomed to the screen which NZ is putting into Y (flown CX and AA products with it a few times), I can say that the quality is excellent. CX also has the 9" PTV in the new long haul 77W/A333 config and from what I've experienced, the quality of it was better than the CX Y+ PTV which had basically the same type of what's currently in NZ's 77W, 763 and A320 now, except bigger. It looks like the NZ Y+ screens are the upsized version of the new PTV too which means that watching movies in Y+ should be excellent. So I'm not too sure if it's always about the size - if the quality gets a remarkable increase, it'll be a positive thing. But one thing's for sure - if you're all about staying up all flight and watching movies, Y+ is definitely the cabin for you.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
qf002
Posts: 3125
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:03 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 12):
Maybe the particular model doesn't have a bigger size..

QF is using eXLite on their A330s and has already indicated that they'll have 11" PTVs in Y. I think it's probably got to do with the restrictions of using an off-the-shelf seat (these seats appear to only come with 9" screens).

Quoting koruman (Reply 22):
also makes it very marginal for Perth

Obviously not, otherwise it wouldn't be their launch route.
 
kevinkevin
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:52 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:15 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 2):

Quoting second picture.. where's the feet going to go?
 
timb777
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:22 am

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:22 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 12):
Yeah, it's the same Premium Economy seat as Cathay (as I had expected all along); except unlike CX, NZ is installing proper leg rests in each seat! It'll be a really nice mini cabin.

Interesting, I hadn't made the link that it is the same seat as CX uses. I guess that good Y+ product consistency will soon be afforded on the AKL-HKG CX codeshare route (once the 77E has been refitted) with both carriers offering the same seat. Will it be 2-4-2 on the 777?

Quoting koruman (Reply 22):
But the very low Business Class seat count - which is perfect for Shanghai - doesn't just make it unsuitable for Honolulu and Papeete

I wonder how narrower the new Y+ seat is compared to the 767 J seat. My guess is that there is little in it. With a similar width and similar catering, the Y+ should pass as "premium" in the HNL & PPT markets. Thus, in some respects the 787 can be regarded as having more 'premium' seats (21+18) than the 767 (24).

Also, it should not be forgotten that Y+ is not offered by TN or HA, so NZ will (cleverly) have a Y+ monopoly on the PPT & HNL routes. As a result, I'm expecting Y+ to be high yielding, priced slightly lower than TN and HA deep discount J. As a consumer, unlike the 77E Y+, I would happily pay for it.
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:46 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 22):
But the very low Business Class seat count - which is perfect for Shanghai - doesn't just make it unsuitable for Honolulu and Papeete, it also makes it very marginal for Perth, where cashed up miners tend to commute from their NZ homes, taking full advantage of the bar and the beds.
Quoting qf002 (Reply 28):
Obviously not, otherwise it wouldn't be their launch route.

I don't actually agree: Air NZ always introduces its long-haul aircraft on routes to Australia to get the crew up to speed.

I think the ultimate vehicle for Perth is far from decided at this point: it depends upon how long WA's mining boom continues, how much of the market moves to the Christchurch flight and how the 77E is going to be reconfigured...........

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 27):
Don't forget the 77E will go 10-abreast after the retrofit.

Yes, I know, but the key question is whether the 77E will get the new Premium Economy recliner or the SpaceSeat.

Recent announcements and the 789 configuration make it clear that the SpaceSeat is considered to take up too much space and weight for the yields that it delivers.

But, by the same token, the 789 is clearly the "low-yield long-haul" vehicle while the 777-300ER is the large volume "high-yield long-haul vehicle".

The obvious use for the 777-200ER fleet at this point is simply as a medium volume "high-yield long-haul vehicle" to use on the second (or third) daily LAX flight and SFO and YVR flights when demand does not justify a 777-300ER.

But if that is the case, there is a much stronger argument to have a uniform 777 fleet product in every class rather than aligning the 77E product with the 789.

The implication of that is that there might just be a reprieve for the SpaceSeat for the 77E refurb. Personally I'd prefer the new PE seat for overnight flights, but the issue is consistency.

But if the 8 77E aircraft can be configured with the same product as the 77W, they would be a good fit for those lower-volume North American flights, Honolulu and Papeete.
 
timb777
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:22 am

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:56 am

As has been announced, the refurb 77E's will have the new Y+, not the 'spaceseat'
 
ZWTwinOtter
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:58 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:22 pm

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
First 787-9 route announced

Wouldn't a Star Alliance route to ORD make sense, or am I missing something ?
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:06 pm

Quoting ZWTwinOtter (Reply 33):

Wouldn't a Star Alliance route to ORD make sense, or am I missing something ?

I think that you're "missing something."

1. It would be such a long-range flight that costs would be huge: the weight of the fuel would be a major factor. It's really a 77L route, and Air NZ have let their 77L options lapse.

2. The largest proportion of outward demand from Australia and New Zealand to the US mainland is to California.

3. East of the Rockies, outward demand to travel to Australia and New Zealand quickly vanishes. Leisure travel is very unrealistic because Americans get such short annual paid leave.
 
tortugamon
Posts: 6744
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:14 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:21 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 22):
the 789 is basically a slightly more efficient 777-200ER and the almost identical seat count for Air New Zealand basically proves it.

Yes the cabin length is nearly identical between the 789 and the 77E. I don't think similar cabin structures are going to be a surprise to many.

I do not agree with the phrase 'slightly more efficient' though. The 789 is more than 10% lighter when empty, and requires a take off weight that is more than 15% lower than the 77E, while flying 12.5% more cargo, 5% further than a 77E all while burning 15% less fuel burn. Nothing slightly about it. I hope NZ makes a ton of money and her FF are happy with this aircraft.

Quoting koruman (Reply 22):
77E: 26 Business / 36 Premium Economy / 242 Economy (304 seats)

I suspect Y will go up to 268 for a total of around 330 after the cabin re-fit to 10Y. Including AA I think we will see more airlines making this transition especially when the 789 is flying on similar routes. It will be tough to compete on price without doing it.

tortugamon
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1567
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:50 pm

Not crazy about that herringbone business pattern - those great big windows and all the seats rotated away from the view! No thanks.
 
ben175
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:44 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:11 pm

Very excited to see PER get the first ever 789 route. I imagine we're going to become a 787 hub similar to how we see dozen's of A330's here daily.
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:34 pm

Quoting keen2fly (Reply 9):
I must say I am quite surprised that there are so few business seats, I was expecting around 24, but I guess these leisure markets won't be so business-heavy.

I flew AKL-NRT in August, and there were 6 of us in J. It was a weekday, but it certainly doesn't command the same traffic that AKL-LAX does.

I'm also thrilled that they are going to a more traditional Premium Economy seat. Those Space seats do not look comfortable, however I have not sat in one. I just always found it odd that they were showing pictures of the armrests up, and some woman spralled out on her husband. I know that if my wife and I sat there, it would look just like that. Her putting her legs on my lap, and me reading a magazine, because I can't sleep.
 
zkncj
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:36 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 12):
Quoting zkncj (Reply 11):
note the the route map for the 789 is AKL-CHC, could be for the Japan flights...

Where's this?
http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/futuretakingflight/#!wherewefly

Quoting ben175 (Reply 37):

Very excited to see PER get the first ever 789 route. I imagine we're going to become a 787 hub similar to how we see dozen's of A330's here daily.

I would say first long haul route, I'm pretty sure NZ will do a couple of AKL-MEL/SYD/BNE sectors before they go onto the PER sector. They always need to use the short Tasman hops for crew training before they place them into longhaul ops.


What does this mean for the 763? there have been rumors that there sticking around for a bit longer, and it sure seems that the 789 is being used to replace the 772.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6304
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:22 pm

Interesting! The premium economy seat looks quite good. Would love to try it sometimes.

I wish all Y seats (Skycouch or not) would have 33 inches of pitch. 31 seems quite awful for long haul.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 12038
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:20 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 10):
Economy will have a 3-3-3 configuration. A real pity considering the brilliant 2-3-2 configuration on the 767s.

NZ has a 2-3-2 configuration for Economy or more precisely premium economy. If a customer wants space, they will have to pay for it.

Quoting koruman (Reply 22):
I've been writing for years that the 789 is basically a slightly more efficient 777-200ER and the almost identical seat count for Air New Zealand basically proves it.

77E: 26 Business / 36 Premium Economy / 242 Economy (304 seats)
789: 18 Business / 21 Premium Economy / 263 Economy (302 seats)

The 789 and even more so the 78J will be excellent 77E replacements. Once the 789 perfects the weight/balance system (probably in a PIP within 3 years), it will be time to phase out the 77Es.

As to Perth, I though the miners were cutting down on spending due to the drop in commodity prices? (Note, I'm asking as I do not know Perth specific.)

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 35):
I do not agree with the phrase 'slightly more efficient' though. The 789 is more than 10% lighter when empty, and requires a take off weight that is more than 15% lower than the 77E, while flying 12.5% more cargo, 5% further than a 77E all while burning 15% less fuel burn. Nothing slightly about it.

   WIth fuel likely to be about 50% of NZ's costs on these flights, that is a tremenous savings with niced added revenue potential in the cargo hold. The plane will save on fuel, maintenance, and ATC fees over its lifetime.

I'm sad, as this is truly the end of the 77E with the A359 due in about a year. I know I am normally the one touting new designs, but the 77E holds a special place in my heart (much as the A340s do for other a.net members). This should mean that some airlines start phasing out 77Es in favor of 789s or A359s.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 39):
What does this mean for the 763?

I would assume they would start staying closer to home. Here is a study from back when fuel was cheaper that shows the *per flight* costs will be lower for the 787. Due to finance costs, NZ will do fine holding onto 763ERs until they require significant work.

Lightsaber





Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
zkncj
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:27 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41):
I would assume they would start staying closer to home. Here is a study from back when fuel was cheaper that shows the *per flight* costs will be lower for the 787. Due to finance costs, NZ will do fine holding onto 763ERs until they require significant work.

They have been doing less short-haul flights in the past 6 months as the Tasman demand is been enough to fill 772/77W multiplie times a day.

Maybe it will be back to 767s on Domestic its how the 762 ended their life
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 12038
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:37 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 42):
the Tasman demand is been enough to fill 772/77W multiplie times a day.

   They should go to more 763ER frequency and free up the 77Ws for other routes.



Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:43 pm

Quoting timb777 (Reply 30):
I guess that good Y+ product consistency will soon be afforded on the AKL-HKG CX codeshare route (once the 77E has been refitted) with both carriers offering the same seat. Will it be 2-4-2 on the 777?

I put NZ's Y+ product ahead of CX's for the following reasons - 3" more legroom, everyone has a proper footrest (on CX, only the bulkhead seats have proper footrests, everyone else gets a piddly little plastic thing stuck to the seat in front), Business Class meals (CX gives J entrees and one J main for the main meal of the flight whereas the other meal gets a Y main.) and then depending on the equipment, its own toilet (343 and 333 doesn't have its own toilet). Also, NZ groups the Y+ area in the 'Premium' section and it'd be far better maintained on a service level than the Y FAs who seldom make the way up into the CX Y+ cabin. So yes, consistent to a point but NZ can really excel with this Y+ product.

Yes, it'll most likely be 2-4-2 on the 777.

Quoting timb777 (Reply 30):
I wonder how narrower the new Y+ seat is compared to the 767 J seat.

Wouldn't say it's that much narrower, if at all. But knowing how bulky the 763 J chair is, maybe it does offer slightly better width due to the design. The middle console only needs to carry the tray table because the PTV is in the seat back compared to the 763, where the tray table is in the outer armrest and the PTV is in the inner one.

Quoting timb777 (Reply 30):

Also, it should not be forgotten that Y+ is not offered by TN or HA,

HA is introducing a Space+ type.. Of course it's no Y+, at least to our standards.. But they'll try to pass it off as just that..

Quoting koruman (Reply 31):
Air NZ always introduces its long-haul aircraft on routes to Australia to get the crew up to speed.

Indeed, but I still see them doing proving flights to SYD/MEL before then..

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41):
As to Perth, I though the miners were cutting down on spending due to the drop in commodity prices?

It's about the employee miners returning home for holidays, not the mining companies (who would have no reason to be coming to NZ!).. So apart from redundancies due to the low commodity prices, they would still probably get paid a lot (especially in comparison to the average salary) and enough to pamper themselves in J back to NZ.

Quoting zkncj (Reply 42):
Maybe it will be back to 767s on Domestic its how the 762 ended their life

I wish! I really don't see it happening though.. Especially now that there is no Business Class anymore..

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 43):
They should go to more 763ER frequency and free up the 77Ws for other routes.

They don't really have time to send the 77Ws anywhere else as they arrive early morning from LAX (at the moment) and leave again in the evening. It really can't be operated on any sector over about 5 hours long. It's good in that sense as those continuing to Australia get a good product all the way to their destination.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19287
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:43 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 15):
It's fascinating that there are only 18 Business Premier seats.

It means that the 789 is probably not actually going to be able to be used for Honolulu and Papeete, because that is substantially less than current demand.

What accounts for the high business class demand to HNL? In most other markets Hawaii is strongly leisure-oriented. From Canada, for example, there's very little premium class demand, apart from frequent flyer redemptions.
 
Gasman
Posts: 1430
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:46 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 36):
Not crazy about that herringbone business pattern - those great big windows and all the seats rotated away from the view!

I'm over the herringbone too. In typical NZ fashion, it seems to me to be a means of "clawback" - ie, making a subtle product downgrade that the travelling public will hopefully be too dumb to notice. In this case, it's seat width. The herringbone arrangement enables a very tight J seat without being immediately obvious by the traditional measure - ie seats per row. Facing away from the window is also a major negative.
 
tortugamon
Posts: 6744
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:14 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:52 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41):
This should mean that some airlines start phasing out 77Es in favor of 789s or A359s.

I wonder about this myself. We have seen 787-8s take over 77E routes already. UA for example has downsized a number of Asian routes with it. When the 789s come in and the A359s after that, its going to be interesting to follow what happens with these 77Es.

As I mentioned up thread I think we will see more operators doing cabin refits and changing to 10 abreast like NZ and AA. That will give them a new lease on life and if they are no longer being used on the borderline demand routes, maybe they can be repositioned on trunk routes in this higher density formats and give them a longer life.

Not sure how popular it will be but if 77Ws are going 10 abreast I wonder why 77Es haven't.

tortugamon
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7585
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:27 pm

9 abreast is industry standard, 32" is the same as many 788 operators and exceeds LAN and QR31" pitch. NH 8 abreast (which I have been lucky enough to fly) is being reconfigured to 9 abreast. As far as not operating to PPT And HNL, it will but HNL frequency may be adjusted and it has been a long time since PPT justified more business class than it offers on the 789.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
zkncj
Posts: 2032
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

RE: NZ Announces First 787-9 Route And Cabin Config

Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:52 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 43):
  They should go to more 763ER frequency and free up the 77Ws for other routes.

The 77W are used in between longhual sectors which would be other sitting on the ground allday

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos