GASQKL
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LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:10 pm

Barely passing 1 year of axing the route, LH is to resume CGK in March 2014. This time the flight will be tagged from KUL and will be served 5 days on a A346. KUL will now be served non-stop from FRA and will be increased from 4 to 5x weekly. The current FRA - BKK - KUL flight will terminate in BKK and will become a day flight returning to FRA.

Here is the link:

http://airlineroute.net/2013/11/08/lh-seasia-s14/

If it was profitable to LH, why did they axe it before? Could it be that there was no proper aircraft to fly the route after FRA - SIN was switched to A380 and that MUC - SIN didn't work out for LH?

[Edited 2013-11-08 08:23:48]
 
ANA787
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:18 pm

Surprised by this move! Will LH resume any more destinations? PDX? PHX? YYC?
 
mendousjeff
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:09 pm

Great! After AF, LH is announcing the same thing now, and I hope that BA will do so soon. Although they will not fly non-stop to their hubs, it's always good to see that the European carriers are finally coming back to CGK.
 
migair54
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:26 pm

I think BKK can support a daily flight easier than KUL, plus in BKK they have Thai, another star alliance member so that means they can get some pax from them, so it´s logical that they add the tag on at KUL and they leave the BKK as a terminator flight.

Quoting Ana787 (Reply 1):
Surprised by this move! Will LH resume any more destinations? PDX? PHX? YYC?

Maybe but I don´t see any of that ones coming back soon,
 
factsonly
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:59 pm

So 2014 brings:

- 13x/week existing CGK-AMS on KL 7x and GA 6x.
- 12x/week new AF 7x CDG / LH 5x FRA service to/from CGK.
- GA launches new 3x/week non-stop B77W service to LGW!

That's over 100% increase in departures and most likely also in seats.

PREDICTION: 2014 will bring lower fares in the CGK - Europe market.
 
LH506
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:38 pm

Quoting GASQKL (Thread starter):

On the other side LH will axe SGN, KRT and ASM beginning of next year.

That is on top of the recently axed PDX, YYC, PNR, LBV, CCU, HYD, CAN...
What is next? CLT, PHL, ATL, Nanjing, PNQ, TAO...


On the positive side I still hope for LIM and PTY.
NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 77L 788 300B2 300B4 345 359 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
LJ
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:07 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 4):
- GA launches new 3x/week non-stop B77W service to LGW!

Don't expect this service to commence. The runways at CGK are still not capable of handling an nonstop CGK - Europe fligt and there is no reason to expect it will be finished before S14.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 4):
That's over 100% increase in departures and most likely also in seats.

Departures yes, seats probably no. All CGK flights are one-stops and it's unclear how many pax will fly between the stop and CGK.
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:52 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 4):
PREDICTION: 2014 will bring lower fares in the CGK - Europe market.

I flew to CGK for 355€ last month, albeit from ARN...
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
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dirktraveller
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:41 am

Great news for LH. I did not expect them to return so early after axing the MUC - SIN - CGK recently.

Quoting LJ (Reply 6):
it's unclear how many pax will fly between the stop and CGK.

It does not really matter for now, according to the airline route given, LH does not have fifth-freedom rights between KUL and CGK.

However I can't help myself but to wonder why would they use an A346 when they were struggling back then with the lower capacity A343? Was there really sufficient traffic between FRA and KUL? Nonetheless I was not complaining, looking forward to see the A346 in CGK soon.

Regards,
Dirktraveller
 
factsonly
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:01 am

Quoting LJ (Reply 6):
Don't expect this service to commence. The runways at CGK are still not capable of handling an nonstop CGK - Europe fligt and there is no reason to expect it will be finished before S14.

The latest is that the airport is updated and GA is going ahead.
 
Tunasa
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:26 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 9):
The latest is that the airport is updated and GA is going ahead.

So far no update yet regarding the runway improvement, GA themselves has been really quiet about proposed non-stop route to London..or Amsterdam...

It is a good news for CGK, Lufthansa A346 in CGK that is a great traffic for the spotters. Really hoping they will get the rights to sell KUL-CGK section..
Though the saying might be bitter, the truth is always beautiful.
 
factsonly
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:22 am

Quoting Tunasa (Reply 10):
So far no update yet regarding the runway improvement, GA themselves has been really quiet about proposed non-stop route to London..or Amsterdam...

Sorry to disagree, but according to this news from GA in the United Kingdom CGK has been cleared for B77W ULH flights.

QUOTE:

Tickets for Garuda-Indonesia’s London-Jakarta service have gone on sale this week, Executive VP of marketing and sales, Erik Meijer, told Routes News. The first flight is due to take off on May 29, 2014, with brand new Boeing 777-300 aircraft delivered earlier that month.

“It’s actually a London-Jakarta-Sydney flight,” said Meijer.

The service takes up one of Gatwick’s morning slots. It will initially operate three times a week, rising to five weekly flights by October.

Eventually, the carrier hopes to add a second aircraft to the service.

“We were supposed to launch the first flight this week,” continued Meijer. “However, a few months back, the Jakarta airport authorities had doubts about whether they could handle a fully-loaded 777 on the runway.”

He added: “We could have commenced the flights, but it meant without a full payload – no cargo and 40 to 50 fewer passengers – which means it wouldn’t be profitable for us.”

Another option was to have a stopover at another airport. Meijer explained: “We didn’t want to do that because the whole competitiveness of this flight is that it’s a direct route.”

The authorities carried out studies and updated their runway infrastructure, and have now given clearance for the carrier to operate the route with a full payload.

Despite the delay, Garuda Indonesia is currently using the aircraft meant for the London service for operations to Tokyo, Seoul and Shanghai.

The route will be the first direct flight between the UK and Indonesia, and will be the carrier’s longest flight by distance.

Meijer added: “This is only our second destination in Europe after Amsterdam, but that flight still stops over in Abu Dhabi.

“This is the first time that we are really putting the 777 to the test on long flights. We really want to do it right this time.”
 
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lugie
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:15 pm

Quoting Ana787 (Reply 1):
Will LH resume any more destinations? PDX? PHX? YYC?

wow, I didn't know LH had ever had service to PHX...
However I'd only see them flying there if the US/AA merger doesn't go through and PHX stays a Star Alliance hub. Maybe then they might consider that.
We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star
 
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lightsaber
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:21 pm

I was really surprised to find out LH wasn't flying a route directly to Europe. This is good news. However, I would have preferred a non-stop to either MUC or FRA. With Indonesia's amazing growth rate, I'm surprised there isn't enough demand for LH to at least hub passengers at FRA.   

Quoting GASQKL (Thread starter):
This time the flight will be tagged from KUL and will be served 5 days on a A346.

Well, the A340 fans here on a.net must be happy!   

Quoting factsonly (Reply 11):
CGK has been cleared for B77W ULH flights.

I am an aviation nut and I had no idea CDK was limited in MTOW.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 11):
“It’s actually a London-Jakarta-Sydney flight,” said Meijer.

Wow... Gutsy move.   

Its fractionally shorter routing than through DXB (157nm less) and more importantly, the longest leg is shorter (6323nm for CDK-LHR vs. 6500nm DXB-SYD).

When will India wake up and change their procedures and taxes to allow better hubbing? IMHO MAA should be the major hub between Malaysia, Indonesia, Australia to Europe and Africa. The only advantage the ME3 have is using the next generation of narrowbodies to Europe (frequency and fragmentation). But man is the widebody leg to Australia getting long...

Quoting factsonly (Reply 11):
Gatwick’s

Ugh... I guess LHR slots are too precious.  
Quoting factsonly (Reply 11):
The authorities carried out studies and updated their runway infrastructure,

Does anyone know what they changed? One cannot just slap on a little asphalt for another 10 to 20 tons of takeoff weight. Or am I to be proven wrong?   (The fun of a.net is learning, I'm certainly not a runway expert.)

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
factsonly
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:49 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):

I was really surprised to find out LH wasn't flying a route directly to Europe. This is good news. However, I would have preferred a non-stop to either MUC or FRA.

LH has been a relatively small player in Indonesia. It operated CGK-SIN-MUC before cancelling service all together.

It is KL that dominates Indonesia - Europe with daily direct flights from both DPS and CGK to AMS.

These flights stop in SIN and KUL respectively. Non-stops by European carriers are (have been) impossible because of runway limitations.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...-asia-western-europe-market-120471
 
mandala499
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:05 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 11):
Sorry to disagree, but according to this news from GA in the United Kingdom CGK has been cleared for B77W ULH flights.

Locally, they've been really quiet about this... There are huge debates inside on whether CGK-LGW is a good move or not. Apparently, it's the brainchild of one slick sucker (maybe licker) who's not even in management. There are still problems at GA despite their achievements, and the CEO isn't as sharp as he was (I think he's rather tired of the turnaround), so he is now 'reported' to start listening to those who don't make him scream...

Locally, operations experts and analysts have poured over the data and concluded the LGW nonstop is going to be a 'very risky proposition', especially given GA's lack of profitability.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):
I am an aviation nut and I had no idea CDK was limited in MTOW.

The PCN at CGK is 120RDWT, it can't take the 77W at MTOW.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):
Does anyone know what they changed? One cannot just slap on a little asphalt for another 10 to 20 tons of takeoff weight. Or am I to be proven wrong?

There are alternative means of calculating how much the airplane can weigh for a given PCN rather than a straightforward reading off the graphs... one can bargain for "reduced annual movements" at that weight as a start...
Although I do feel that other 77W operators at CGK (EK, EY, KL) would want their "weight restriction" lifted as soon as GA gets the LGW nonstop go-ahead. That'll give CGK airport a headache... I mean, a huge headache.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 11):
“It’s actually a London-Jakarta-Sydney flight,” said Meijer.

Well, the eastbound, the Jakarta-Sydney will be retimed to match the London-Jakarta, and when it does, it wont connect to any significant domestic feed, and westbound, the Sydney-Jakarta won't be able to connect to most of the domestic flights... so this is really going to be an interesting one to watch.

Quoting LJ (Reply 6):
The runways at CGK are still not capable of handling an nonstop CGK - Europe fligt and there is no reason to expect it will be finished before S14.

It's not capable to handle the 77W due to pavement loading issues... one needs to take a few tons off the MTOW... but London is about as far as one can go non-stop from here anyway, other places in Europe are closer, so they shouldn't be much of a problem.

Quoting dirktraveller (Reply 8):
Was there really sufficient traffic between FRA and KUL? Nonetheless I was not complaining, looking forward to see the A346 in CGK soon.

I think FRA-KUL will be cargo, and the pax goes to CGK... KLM, EK, and SQ has taken out most of the cargo between CGK and Europe... if LH wanted to serve CGK non-stop, they'd be better off sending the 343 then!    But as soon as you got cargo, yeah, 346... and make it go via KUL...
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
dalca
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:39 pm

Quoting LH506 (Reply 5):
On the other side LH will axe SGN, KRT and ASM beginning of next year.

That is on top of the recently axed PDX, YYC, PNR, LBV, CCU, HYD, CAN...
What is next? CLT, PHL, ATL, Nanjing, PNQ, TAO...

KRT is being closed down for the same reasons that KL closed KRT down, local currency and the amount of aid relief related passengers has gone down.
PDX was axed in favor of SEA after DL started serving PDX and there just was not enough business to support both flights.

Usually when LH closes a station, the reasons are pretty sound. CAN, closed because the Skyteam hub takes most paseangers.
If the route is loss making, with both Pax and cargo, it gets cut. Basically simple economics.
Zanair flight, please hold on finals as we have to clear rhino's off the runway. Next flight KUL-FRA-AMS Flown in A319,A
 
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dirktraveller
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:37 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 15):
so this is really going to be an interesting one to watch.

It will certainly be interesting on how they perform on this LGW - CGK - Australia route. I hope all the best but certainly, not that they only lose passengers who were affected with their domestic connections, also some share of those O&D passengers who might prefer QF timing on the CGK-SYD flights.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 15):
But as soon as you got cargo, yeah, 346

Good to know that there's cargo traffic to support the A346. Hopefully this time LH will stay longer in Indonesia, looking forward to spot that A346 in CGK.  
 
Qazar
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:24 pm

Quoting LH506 (Reply 5):
On the other side LH will axe SGN, KRT and ASM beginning of next year.

WHAT?!!!! These 3 are being axed?!!! I didn't hear about that?.... Anyone know why is SGN being stopped? I thought it was a profit-making route?
 
Azure
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RE: LH To Resume CGK In 2014

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:00 pm

A rather surprising move from LH. When you consider the costs of a tag flight, it might be rather risky to operate it without traffic rights between the stop and the final destination. If I am not mistaken, LH does not have (yet?) traffic rights between KUL and CGK, unlike KL...
LH will start the route with a competitive disadvantage.

As noted before, KL is well established in Indonesia. Its sister airline AF will serve CGK as a tag on SIN as from March 30th 2014 but it has traffic rights between SIN and CGK.
Therefore AFKL/Skyteam will still offer more frequency and more flexibility on the Europe to Indonesia market.

LH strategy in Asia is not very clear at the present time. It is starting this new tag flight to CGK but it is axing two other tags, SGN and PUS.

And finally LH is rescheduling its BKK service with a timing that will not attract the premium pax it is supposed to chase...