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enilria
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:23 pm

FAQ

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operates less than daily it will become affected by the unqual number of days in each month. For example, if a flight runs on Tuesdays only and a month has 5 Tuesdays it will show 5/31=.16=0.2 (if 31 days), but 4/31=.129=.1 if the month has 4 Tuesdays.

WHAT ABOUT CARRIERS THAT DON'T PUBLISH A SCHEDULE 9 MONTHS IN ADVANCE?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. I remove the schedule adds if I see them and show a year over year (YOY) comparison if I notice them.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THIS LOOKS LIKE AN ERROR?
The carriers file the schedules. They do make mistakes. Most of the mistakes I have seen are either related to code shares not being marked as "duplicates" or carriers filing flights with invalid data such as equipment codes that are not standard. This causes flights to not appear.

CHARTERS?
Lately charters have been showing up in the database. I have no idea if that will continue.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".


7H GAL-KYU DEC 0>0.7 JAN 0>0.7 FEB 0>0.7 MAR 0>0.7 APR 0>0.7 MAY 0>0.7 JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>0.7
7H HSL-KYU DEC 0.8>0 JAN 0.8>0 FEB 0.9>0 MAR 0.8>0 APR 0.9>0 MAY 0.8>0 JUN 0.9>0 JUL 0.9>0
7H KYU-NUL DEC 0>0.7 JAN 0>0.7 FEB 0>0.7 MAR 0>0.7 APR 0>0.7 MAY 0>0.7 JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>0.7

AA DFW-CHS FEB 3>2 MAR 3>2 APR 3>2 MAY 3>2 JUN 3>2 JUL 3>2

AB JFK-TXL MAY 1.0>1.3 JUN 1.0>1.4 JUL 1.0>1.5
AB MIA-TXL MAY 0.7>1.0 JUN 0.7>1.0 JUL 0.7>1.0
AB ORD-TXL MAY 0.7>1.0 JUN 0.7>1.0 JUL 0.7>1.0

AM ORD-MEX APR 3>4
AM SAT-MEX JAN 3>1.5 FEB 2>1.0 MAR 2>1.0 APR 2>1.0 MAY 2>1.0 JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0

AS HNL-OAK APR 0.9>0.4 MAY 0.9>0.4 JUN 1.0>0.4 JUL 1.0>0.4
AS HNL-SJC APR 0.9>0.6 MAY 0.9>0.6 JUN 1.0>0.6 JUL 1.0>0.6

BW JFK-POS APR 2>3 MAY 2>3 JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3

DL ATL-BHM FEB 8>10
DL ATL-IAH FEB 9>8 MAR 9>8
DL ATL-MGM MAR 9>8 APR 9>8
DL ATL-OAJ JUL 6>5
DL ATL-SAV FEB 9>8 JUL 11>10
DL ATL-SGF MAR 6>5
DL ATL-XNA FEB 8>7

Taken as a group looks like retaliation by DL against B6
*DL DTW-BOS MAR 7>8 APR 7>8 MAY 7>8
*DL BOS-CUN MAY 0>0.2 JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1
*DL BOS-JAX MAR 0>0.9 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0
*DL BOS-NAS MAR 0>0.1 APR 0>0.1 MAY 0>0.2 JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1
*DL BOS-ORF MAR 1.8>0 APR 1.9>0 MAY 1.8>0 JUN 2>0 JUL 2>0
*DL BOS-PLS MAR 0>0.1 APR 0>0.1 MAY 0>0.2 JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1
*DL BOS-RIC MAR 0>1.9 APR 0>2 MAY 0>2 JUN 0>2 JUL 0>2
*DL JFK-PLS MAR 0>0.1 APR 0>0.1 MAY 0>0.2 JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1

DL BWI-RDU JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3
DL BZN-MSP FEB 3>2
DL CVG-DFW FEB 3>1.6
TOL redo?
**DL DTW-FNT JAN 3>0.3 FEB 3>0 MAR 3>0 APR 3>0 MAY 3>0 JUN 3>0 JUL 3>0
*DL FNT-MSP APR 1.9>3 MAY 1.8>3 JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3
DL DTW-LEX MAR 6>5 APR 6>5 MAY 6>5
DL DTW-MHT MAR 3>4
DL DTW-MKE MAR 7>6 APR 7>6
DL DTW-MSP JAN 9>8 MAR 9>8 APR 9>8 MAY 9>8 JUN 9>8 JUL 9>8
DL DTW-PVD JUL 5>4
*DL DTW-SAN MAR 3>1.8 APR 3>1.5
DL DTW-SBN MAR 6>5 APR 6>5 MAY 6>5
DL DTW-SFO MAR 4>3
DL DTW-TVC JUN 6>7
DL HNL-SFO FEB 0.4>0.3
DL IAD-MSP FEB 3>1.9
DL IND-MSP JUN 7>6 JUL 7>6
DL JFK-AUS MAR 1.8>1.0
*DL JFK-MCI APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0
*DL LAX-HNL APR 3>4 MAY 3>4 JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4
*DL LAX-OAK MAY 7>8 JUN 7>8 JUL 7>8
*DL LAX-PDX MAY 4>5 JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5
*DL LAX-SJC MAY 5>6 JUN 5>6 JUL 5>6
DL LGA-ROA FEB 0.9>0.4 MAR 0.8>0 APR 0.9>0 MAY 0.8>0 JUN 0.9>0 JUL 1.0>0
DL MCO-RDU FEB 3>2
*DL MEM-BOS JAN 0.8>0.1 FEB 0.9>0 MAR 0.8>0 APR 0.9>0 MAY 0.8>0 JUN 0.9>0 JUL 0.9>0
*DL MEM-CVG JAN 3>1.1 FEB 3>0.9 MAR 3>0.7 APR 3>0.7 MAY 3>0.7 JUN 3>0.7 JUL 3>0.7
Slots go where?
**DL MEM-DCA JAN 1.5>0.2 FEB 1.6>0 MAR 1.5>0 APR 1.6>0 MAY 1.5>0 JUN 1.6>0 JUL 1.6>0
*DL MEM-LGA JAN 1.7>1.0 FEB 1.7>0.9 MAR 1.6>0.8 APR 1.7>0.9 MAY 1.7>0.8 JUN 1.7>0.9 JUL 1.7>0.9
DL MLI-MSP FEB 1.4>0.9
DL MOT-MSP JUN 7>6 JUL 7>6
DL MSO-MSP MAY 1.0>2
DL RDU-TPA FEB 1.5>1.0
DL SLC-EKO JAN 4>3 FEB 4>3 MAR 4>3 APR 4>3 MAY 4>3 JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3
DL SLC-OKC FEB 1.5>1.0

F9 CMH-TTN JAN 0.3>0.1

G4 AVL-PIE APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.4>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 AZA-CID MAY 0.3>1.0 JUN 0.3>1.0 JUL 0.3>1.0
G4 AZA-FAR MAY 0.4>1.2 JUN 0.4>1.1 JUL 0.4>1.1
G4 BGR-PIE MAY 0.6>0.4 JUN 0.6>0.4 JUL 0.6>0.5
G4 FLL-GRR APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.4>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 FLL-GSP APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.4>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 FLL-TYS MAY 0.6>0.4 JUN 0.6>0.4 JUL 0.6>0.5
G4 PIA-PIE MAY 0.7>0.6 JUN 0.7>0.6
G4 PIE-TOL MAY 0.7>0.6
G4 SBN-SFB MAY 0.4>1.2 JUN 0.4>1.2 JUL 0.4>1.1

HA HNL-JFK FEB 1.0>0.8 MAR 1.0>0.7 APR 1.0>0.8

IG JFK-NAP MAY 0>0.1 JUN 0>0.5 JUL 0>0.6
IG JFK-PMO JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3

MW HNM-JHM DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0

*OR MIA-AMS APR 0>0.3 MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.5

PD BOS-YTZ APR 6>7 MAY 6>7 JUN 6>7 JUL 7>8

S3 MIA-CCS DEC 3>4 JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4

SY DFW-CUN MAY 0.6>0.8 JUN 0>1.8 JUL 0>1.8
SY DFW-CZM JUN 0>0.6 JUL 0>0.5
SY DFW-LIR JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1
SY DFW-MBJ JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3
SY DFW-MSP JUN 0>1.1 JUL 0>1.1
SY DFW-PUJ JUN 0>0.6 JUL 0>0.6
SY DFW-PVR JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3
SY MSP-CUN JUN 0>0.4 JUL 0>0.4

TCX LAS-MAN MAY 0.3>0.4 JUN 0.3>0.4 JUL 0.3>0.4

*UA CLE-PHX JUN 1.0>0.1 JUL 1.0>0
UA DEN-GUC JUL 1.0>2.0
UA DEN-HDN JUL 2>3
UA DEN-PVR JUL 0.3>0.1
UA IAD-FLL JAN 1.0>0.8
UA IAH-MEX MAY 8>9
UA IAH-MTY MAY 8>9
UA ORD-YOW APR 5>6 MAY 5>6 JUN 5>6 JUL 5>6
UA ORD-YVR JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5
UA SFO-EWR FEB 11>10

*UX MIA-MAD JUN 0>0.4 JUL 0>0.4

*V2 GPT-PIE DEC 0.7>0 JAN 0.7>0 FEB 0.7>0 MAR 0.7>0 APR 0.7>0 MAY 0.7>0 JUN 0.7>0 JUL 0.7>0

VX BOS-SFO MAY 1.8>3 JUN 1.9>3 JUL 1.8>3

Y4 DEN-MEX JAN 0.8>0.3 FEB 0.9>0.3 MAR 0.9>0.3 APR 0.9>0.3 MAY 0.8>0.3 JUN 0.9>0.3 JUL 0.8>0.3
Y4 LAX-GDL DEC 3>4
Y4 LAX-MEX DEC 0.9>1.0 JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 1.0>0.6 MAR 1.0>0.6 APR 1.0>0.5 MAY 1.0>0.6 JUN 1.0>0.6 JUL 1.0>0.5
Y4 LAX-ZCL FEB 0.6>0.4 MAR 0.6>0.5 APR 0.6>0.4 MAY 0.5>0.4 JUN 0.6>0.5 JUL 0.5>0.4
Y4 MCO-MEX JAN 1.0>0.6 FEB 1.0>0.6 MAR 1.0>0.5 APR 1.0>0.6 MAY 1.0>0.6 JUN 1.0>0.5 JUL 1.0>0.6
Y4 MDW-MEX DEC 0.7>0.3 JAN 0.9>0 FEB 0.9>0 MAR 0.8>0 APR 0.9>0 MAY 0.9>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.9>0
Y4 OAK-MEX JAN 0.5>0 FEB 0.6>0 MAR 0.6>0 APR 0.5>0 MAY 0.6>0 JUN 0.6>0 JUL 0.5>0
Y4 ORD-MEX DEC 0>0.5 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0
Y4 PHX-MEX DEC 0>0.4 JAN 0>0.4 FEB 0>0.3 MAR 0>0.3 APR 0>0.3 MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3
Y4 SAN-GDL JAN 0.5>0.2 FEB 0.4>0 MAR 0.4>0 APR 0.4>0 MAY 0.5>0 JUN 0.4>0 JUL 0.4>0
Y4 SAN-MEX JAN 1.0>0.6 FEB 1.0>0.6 MAR 1.0>0.6 APR 1.0>0.5 MAY 1.0>0.6 JUN 1.0>0.6 JUL 1.0>0.5
Y4 SAT-GDL DEC 0>0.2 JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3 MAR 0>0.3 APR 0>0.3 MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3
Y4 SJC-GDL JAN 1.4>1.1 FEB 1.4>1.0 MAR 1.5>1.0 APR 1.4>1.0 MAY 1.4>1.0 JUN 1.5>1.0 JUL 1.4>1.0
Y4 SMF-GDL DEC 0.6>0.9 JAN 0.9>0.5 FEB 0.9>0.6 MAR 0.8>0.6 APR 0.9>0.6 MAY 0.9>0.6 JUN 0.8>0.6 JUL 0.9>0.6

ZK DEN-PIR DEC 3>1.0 JAN 3>1.0 FEB 3>1.0 MAR 3>1.0 APR 3>1.0 MAY 3>1.0 JUN 3>1.0 JUL 3>1.0
ZK DVL-MSP DEC 2>1.0 JAN 2>1.0 FEB 2>1.0 MAR 2>1.0 APR 2>1.0 MAY 2>1.0 JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0
*ZK FOD-MCW DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0
ZK FOD-MSP DEC 3>1.7 JAN 3>1.7 FEB 3>1.7 MAR 3>1.7 APR 3>1.7 MAY 3>1.7 JUN 3>1.7 JUL 3>1.7
ZK JMS-MSP DEC 3>2 JAN 3>2 FEB 3>2 MAR 3>2 APR 3>2 MAY 3>2 JUN 3>2 JUL 3>2
ZK MCW-MSP DEC 4>3 JAN 4>3 FEB 4>3 MAR 4>3 APR 4>3 MAY 4>3 JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3
 
point2point
Posts: 2080
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:54 pm

RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:50 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AB JFK-TXL MAY 1.0>1.3 JUN 1.0>1.4 JUL 1.0>1.5
AB MIA-TXL MAY 0.7>1.0 JUN 0.7>1.0 JUL 0.7>1.0
AB ORD-TXL MAY 0.7>1.0 JUN 0.7>1.0 JUL 0.7>1.0

Looks like Berlin is getting some love from the U.S., and OW is giving it.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Taken as a group looks like retaliation by DL against B6

Hmmmmm..... maybe..... BOS-JAX with a new daily, and then BOS-RDU with a couple of dailies...... probably having birds with nothing to do since MEM is being cut to smitherines..... otherwise, the other routes amount to 4 weekly......

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 CMH-TTN JAN 0.3>0.1

Trying to survive January?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
G4 AZA-CID MAY 0.3>1.0 JUN 0.3>1.0 JUL 0.3>1.0
G4 AZA-FAR MAY 0.4>1.2 JUN 0.4>1.1 JUL 0.4>1.1
............
G4 SBN-SFB MAY 0.4>1.2 JUN 0.4>1.2 JUL 0.4>1.1

Looks like there's enough from middle America for Phoenix to go daily and even more and yet.....

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA CLE-PHX JUN 1.0>0.1 JUL 1.0>0

...... a big city like Cleveland can't work with a daily to Phoenix, since UA is the only carrier here? Maybe fares have something to do with this?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Y4 DEN-MEX JAN 0.8>0.3 FEB 0.9>0.3 MAR 0.9>0.3 APR 0.9>0.3 MAY 0.8>0.3 JUN 0.9>0.3 JUL 0.8>0.3
DEN-MEX carriers and frequencies seem to be changed more than diapers on a baby with diarrhea......

 



[Edited 2013-11-11 06:53:01]
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:02 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
TOL redo?
**DL DTW-FNT JAN 3>0.3 FEB 3>0 MAR 3>0 APR 3>0 MAY 3>0 JUN 3>0 JUL 3>0
*DL FNT-MSP APR 1.9>3 MAY 1.8>3 JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3

I doubt it..I think they usually go to 3 flights a day to MSP in the summer...can't remember. Difference is, FNT still has ATL on DL...I think this is a bigger ploy to eliminate the lower yield connecting flow. I wonder if WN flying to BWI was eroding a lot of their yields to the East from FNT... Interesting none the less..
 
michman
Posts: 597
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:51 am

RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:05 pm

I don't see DL pulling out of FNT. Unlike TOL, there's too many competitors there for them to ignore. In addition to the MSP flights, there's also service to ATL. More likely, this is related to the reductions in CRJ flying.
 
codc10
Posts: 1749
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:09 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA CLE-PHX JUN 1.0>0.1 JUL 1.0>0

Doubt UA is leaving the market, more likely a temporary pulldown during the slow season in PHX.
 
mhkansan
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:02 pm

RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:10 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AB JFK-TXL MAY 1.0>1.3 JUN 1.0>1.4 JUL 1.0>1.5
AB MIA-TXL MAY 0.7>1.0 JUN 0.7>1.0 JUL 0.7>1.0
AB ORD-TXL MAY 0.7>1.0 JUN 0.7>1.0 JUL 0.7>1.0

Wow! That's great to see the AB flights so successful to ORD. I wonder how much they will be duking it out with OS in ORD for the Eastern-European connecting traffic. AB is starting to look like a comprehensive network carrier. Time to order some more 787s or A332s!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL JFK-MCI APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0

long, thin routes like this have trouble sticking at MCI. MCI-DCA gets cut by F9, MCI-SFO is still only RJs on UA, and the link to the European departures bank at JFK is cut. I wonder if AA will see this as an opportunity with a CR7 perhaps?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**DL DTW-FNT JAN 3>0.3 FEB 3>0 MAR 3>0 APR 3>0 MAY 3>0 JUN 3>0 JUL 3>0

This almost has to be an error. DL sends MD-80s to FNT from ATL!
 
cle757
Posts: 797
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:28 am

RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:14 pm

Quoting codc10 (Reply 4):

Doubt UA is leaving the market, more likely a temporary pulldown during the slow season in PHX

They probably will add CLE-PDX for the summer like this past summer
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
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enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 6147
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:30 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 1):
Hmmmmm..... maybe..... BOS-JAX with a new daily, and then BOS-RDU with a couple of dailies...... probably having birds with nothing to do since MEM is being cut to smitherines..... otherwise, the other routes amount to 4 weekly......

Can't agree. If it was JFK I might say so, but DL lost BOS a long time ago (if they ever had it). B6 owns BOS now, this is too little too late and the timing is curious. DL got booted from PIT-BOS when they tried that.

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 2):
I wonder if WN flying to BWI was eroding a lot of their yields to the East from FNT

Judging from the loads in T100 it is only eroding EN's profits at this point.

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 5):
long, thin routes like this have trouble sticking at MCI.

Yeah, I agree. That is a big loss in terms of int'l access. A lot of int'l routes become two stops with that going away.

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 5):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**DL DTW-FNT JAN 3>0.3 FEB 3>0 MAR 3>0 APR 3>0 MAY 3>0 JUN 3>0 JUL 3>0

This almost has to be an error. DL sends MD-80s to FNT from ATL!

Hearing it isn't an error
 
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Alsatian
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 10:19 pm

RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:31 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL ATL-BHM FEB 8>10

Currently operated by a mix of M88 D95 CR7 320 CRJ > to be all 319

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL LAX-OAK MAY 7>8 JUN 7>8 JUL 7>8

Currently operated by a mix of CR9 CR7 > to be all CR7

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL LAX-PDX MAY 4>5 JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5

Currently operated by a mix of CR9 CR7 > to be all CR9

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL LAX-SJC MAY 5>6 JUN 5>6 JUL 5>6

Currently operated by a mix of CR7 CR9 > to be all CR7
Ok I am French but I am not on strike
 
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enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 6147
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:38 pm

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 8):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL ATL-BHM FEB 8>10

Currently operated by a mix of M88 D95 CR7 320 CRJ > to be all 319

They are upgauging and increasing flights???
 
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adamh8297
Posts: 2062
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:51 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

Taken as a group looks like retaliation by DL against B6

Wow - DL means serious business here even though the majority of the attack is on leisure routes. It would be more interesting if DL did something like double BOS-RDU capacity.


Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL DTW-MHT MAR 3>4

I would include this as part of the retaliation as well.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL BOS-ORF MAR 1.8>0 APR 1.9>0 MAY 1.8>0 JUN 2>0 JUL 2>0
*DL BOS-RIC MAR 0>1.9 APR 0>2 MAY 0>2 JUN 0>2 JUL 0>2

Why enter RIC when you had Hampton Roads metro to yourself?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL BOS-JAX MAR 0>0.9 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0

This one looks permanent and not seasonal I guess??

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL BOS-CUN MAY 0>0.2 JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1

Wasn't DL serving this weekly year-round at some point?
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN
 
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enilria
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:54 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 10):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL BOS-ORF MAR 1.8>0 APR 1.9>0 MAY 1.8>0 JUN 2>0 JUL 2>0
*DL BOS-RIC MAR 0>1.9 APR 0>2 MAY 0>2 JUN 0>2 JUL 0>2

Why enter RIC when you had Hampton Roads metro to yourself?

I know.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 10):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL BOS-CUN MAY 0>0.2 JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1

Wasn't DL serving this weekly year-round at some point?

Yes, but they pulled most of those pt2pt CUN flights.
 
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kgaiflyer
Posts: 2561
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:22 am

RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:57 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA IAD-FLL JAN 1.0>0.8

Funny route. I've flown full 757s. Yet some weekends a CR7 would fill the bill (as with IAD-MIA).

Quoting codc10 (Reply 4):
Doubt UA is leaving the market, more likely a temporary pulldown during the slow season in PHX.

The last time I flew this route as pmCO, there were as many non-revs on the plane as paying clients. I remember the flight because some of the non-revs sat in the back and let their children take empty seats in the front. I was in 1-F, and my seatmate in 1-E turned out to be a talkative 10 year old who wanted to know why I was even allowed on the plane if I didn't live in Cleveland.  boggled 

[Edited 2013-11-11 08:49:38]
 
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Alsatian
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:08 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 9):
They are upgauging and increasing flights???

Weird indeed but starting march there are even 11 flights on weekdays all operated by A319.
Ok I am French but I am not on strike
 
apodino
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:11 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL BOS-RIC MAR 0>1.9 APR 0>2 MAY 0>2 JUN 0>2 JUL 0>2

This is actually a US route. I really don't know what is going on here, but they may be trying to grab some market share and hope that US pulls out and falls back on cornerstones after the merger, since really the long term future of some P2P's out of BOS are somewhat uncertain on US. (I believe the BOS P2Ps, plus LGA-PIT are the only non hub routes US has left in their system)

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL BOS-ORF MAR 1.8>0 APR 1.9>0 MAY 1.8>0 JUN 2>0 JUL 2>0

Then again, DL may have not had much luck on this route and they are moving it to RIC to hit a bigger catchment area.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Y4 MDW-MEX DEC 0.7>0.3 JAN 0.9>0 FEB 0.9>0 MAR 0.8>0 APR 0.9>0 MAY 0.9>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.9>0
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

Y4 ORD-MEX DEC 0>0.5 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0

As expected and long rumored on here. The only reason this flight was at MDW is because of the WN codeshare. WIth that gone, there is no reason really for them to be at MDW, plus I think WN would like to get their hands on the FIS gates at MDW.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
VX BOS-SFO MAY 1.8>3 JUN 1.9>3 JUL 1.8>3

VX is quietly becoming number 2 on this route. I don't even know what UA is at on this route anymore.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL LGA-ROA FEB 0.9>0.4 MAR 0.8>0 APR 0.9>0 MAY 0.8>0 JUN 0.9>0 JUL 1.0>0

There has been so much focus about what US is doing with slots at DCA, that we forget about DL and the LGA slots that were also a part of the deal. Looks like ROA is one of the first casualties on that front. MEM loses a daily frequency as well out of LGA, and it doesn't seem like DL has reallocated these slots, so I don't know who gains at these cities expense.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA CLE-PHX JUN 1.0>0.1 JUL 1.0>0

Since US doesn't fly this route, this was the Star Alliance presence on the route, and with US going to OW, there may not be a need to fly this route anymore nonstop. With CLE's future as a UA hub not real good to begin with, this may be the first of many we see here.

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
Quoting mhkansan (Reply 5):
long, thin routes like this have trouble sticking at MCI.

Yeah, I agree. That is a big loss in terms of int'l access. A lot of int'l routes become two stops with that going away.

Which DL routes are only flown out of JFK? Because it would seem to me like DL could funnel such connections over other hubs? This could be very good for AA, as they are pretty strong in MCI, and will gain PHL soon. The other thing is if the destinations that are JFK only on Delta don't generate a lot of traffic from MCI, then DL may just be cutting losses and focusing on O and D to LGA instead, where because you fly the route, JFK is little more than a feeder flight that is overly redundant due to other hubs, mainly DTW and ATL. Of course I have known DL to sell itineraries with an airport transfer in NYC as well.

Quoting michman (Reply 3):
I don't see DL pulling out of FNT. Unlike TOL, there's too many competitors there for them to ignore. In addition to the MSP flights, there's also service to ATL. More likely, this is related to the reductions in CRJ flying.

I think its a combination of that, and basically DL not wanting people to take advantage of the old DAY loophole, where it was cheaper to buy a ticket from DAY and connect through CVG than it was to fly nonstop from CVG. Obviously DL wants you to do the latter if possible since they make more money, and probably lose it the other way. The only difference is now its FNT and DTW instead of DAY and CVG.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:29 pm

A couple of interesting Hawaii moves:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AS HNL-OAK APR 0.9>0.4 MAY 0.9>0.4 JUN 1.0>0.4 JUL 1.0>0.4
AS HNL-SJC APR 0.9>0.6 MAY 0.9>0.6 JUN 1.0>0.6 JUL 1.0>0.6

This furthers my opinion that the East Bay area is the center of the juggling of flights between AS and HA -- kind of the center of their on-going shoving match over service to the Islands.

And speaking of Hawaii, this is an interesting reduction as well.
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
HA HNL-JFK FEB 1.0>0.8 MAR 1.0>0.7 APR 1.0>0.8


This is a curious move by DL, something that hasn't happened before in recent memory:
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL DTW-SAN MAR 3>1.8 APR 3>1.5
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DEN-MEX carriers and frequencies seem to be changed more than diapers on a baby with diarrhea......

Great comment which, IMHO, applies in some other Volaris markets as well:
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Y4 SAN-GDL JAN 0.5>0.2 FEB 0.4>0 MAR 0.4>0 APR 0.4>0 MAY 0.5>0 JUN 0.4>0 JUL 0.4>0
Y4 SAN-MEX JAN 1.0>0.6 FEB 1.0>0.6 MAR 1.0>0.6 APR 1.0>0.5 MAY 1.0>0.6 JUN 1.0>0.6 JUL 1.0>0.5


bb
 
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:35 pm

Quoting michman (Reply 3):
More likely, this is related to the reductions in CRJ flying.

I agree with michman in that if you're determined to get rid of the CRJ-200s that route (DTW-FNT) has to go. I wonder if DTW-MBS will go as well or just be altered to fewer frequencies and a CRJ-900. I think we can expect much more of this in the remaining CRJ-200 stations.

[Edited 2013-11-11 08:47:22]

[Edited 2013-11-11 08:48:03]
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:27 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 12):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA IAD-FLL JAN 1.0>0.8

Funny route. I've flown full 757s. Yet some weekends a CR7 would fill the bill (as with IAD-MIA).

IAD is a leisure wasteland. I wonder how long B6 will stay there outside of the BOS service which I think they have to stay in or somebody else will do it.

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 13):
Quoting enilria (Reply 9):
They are upgauging and increasing flights???

Weird indeed but starting march there are even 11 flights on weekdays all operated by A319.

It's probably an error or otherwise temp schedule.

Quoting apodino (Reply 14):
This is actually a US route.

But B6 is the target.

Quoting apodino (Reply 14):
Then again, DL may have not had much luck on this route and they are moving it to RIC to hit a bigger catchment area.

That's probably also true, but because B6 made RIC cheaper.

Quoting apodino (Reply 14):
There has been so much focus about what US is doing with slots at DCA, that we forget about DL and the LGA slots that were also a part of the deal.

True. I should have starred the ROA drop. Missed it.

Quoting apodino (Reply 14):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA CLE-PHX JUN 1.0>0.1 JUL 1.0>0

Since US doesn't fly this route, this was the Star Alliance presence on the route, and with US going to OW, there may not be a need to fly this route anymore nonstop.

WN will add it I suspect.

Quoting apodino (Reply 14):
Yeah, I agree. That is a big loss in terms of int'l access. A lot of int'l routes become two stops with that going away.

Which DL routes are only flown out of JFK?

There are a bunch actually that DL is flying Summer only now, but I was speaking also to all the interline options at JFK.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 15):
This is a curious move by DL, something that hasn't happened before in recent memory:
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL DTW-SAN MAR 3>1.8 APR 3>1.5

I agree. Probably where the PDX plane came from now that it is running all year.

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 16):
I agree with michman in that if you're determined to get rid of the CRJ-200s that route (DTW-FNT) has to go.

A lot more routes will die as a result of the CRJ-200's eventual demise.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:52 pm

DTW-FNT has several strikes against it:

--Zero local traffic

--FNT yields have not been good for years

--With FNT-ATL able to reasonably handle the large bulk of Flint-origin traffic, there's no need for FNT-DTW. Delta will happily sell you FNT-ATL-PHL or FNT-ATL-BNA.

--Some looking for cheaper fares or more segments...especially the 2m in metro Deroit's Oakland and Macomb counties...will book FNT-DTW-XXX instead of DTW-XXX. That behavior is nothing Delta probably wants to subsidize. In theory peopel can just drive the extra 35 minutes up to MBS to fly MBS-DTW-XXX, or other LAN-DTW-XXX. But neither MBS nor LAN has LCC fares like Flint does. And neither MBS nor LAN has Atlanta nonstops to offset the loss of DTW flights.

So....I doni't see FNT as turning into TOL on Delta.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:52 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):

Quoting SANFan (Reply 15):
Quote:
This is a curious move by DL, something that hasn't happened before in recent memory:
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL DTW-SAN MAR 3>1.8 APR 3>1.5
I agree. Probably where the PDX plane came from now that it is running all year

Or perhaps providing the funding for some of the new SEA-flights?

In any case, it seems to tell me that SAN-DTW has not been doing all that well... Which still surprises me.

bb
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:57 pm

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 16):
Quoting michman (Reply 3): More likely, this is related to the reductions in CRJ flying.
I agree with michman in that if you're determined to get rid of the CRJ-200s that route (DTW-FNT) has to go. I wonder if DTW-MBS will go as well or just be altered to fewer frequencies and a CRJ-900.

MBS is a major market for corporate travel (Dow Chemical), so I think DL is more likely to make the route a CRJ-900, to ensure Dow travelers can continue to fly MBS-Europe / Asia via DTW.
Seaholm Maples are #1!
 
ANA787
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:31 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL HNL-SFO FEB 0.4>0.3

This route has constantly been cut down. Surprised DL is still holding on to this route. Thought it would've gone with the NRT route.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:50 pm

Oooh, this was a good week to discuss changes. As always, thanks for posting the OAG reports.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**DL DTW-FNT JAN 3>0.3 FEB 3>0 MAR 3>0 APR 3>0 MAY 3>0 JUN 3>0 JUL 3>0

WN must be happy to pick up the additional connecting traffic. FNT-MSP works well for the west half of the country, but FNT-ATL is just completely out of the way for travel to the northeast. FNT-BWI should do better with this cut.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL DTW-MSP JAN 9>8 MAR 9>8 APR 9>8 MAY 9>8 JUN 9>8 JUL 9>8

In my book this was a star. Only 8x even during the summer? It's getting tough to connect through DET from MSP. Frequency and gauge is way down since pre-DL, and the flights are packed. So the good fares are all through - you guessed it - ATL.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL DTW-SAN MAR 3>1.8 APR 3>1.5

Ouch. Wasn't a good week for DTW. During vacation time too?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL LAX-HNL APR 3>4 MAY 3>4 JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4

Wow, a DL ADDITION to HNL from the mainland!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

*DL MEM-BOS JAN 0.8>0.1 FEB 0.9>0 MAR 0.8>0 APR 0.9>0 MAY 0.8>0 JUN 0.9>0 JUL 0.9>0
*DL MEM-CVG JAN 3>1.1 FEB 3>0.9 MAR 3>0.7 APR 3>0.7 MAY 3>0.7 JUN 3>0.7 JUL 3>0.7
Slots go where?
**DL MEM-DCA JAN 1.5>0.2 FEB 1.6>0 MAR 1.5>0 APR 1.6>0 MAY 1.5>0 JUN 1.6>0 JUL 1.6>0
*DL MEM-LGA JAN 1.7>1.0 FEB 1.7>0.9 MAR 1.6>0.8 APR 1.7>0.9 MAY 1.7>0.8 JUN 1.7>0.9 JUL 1.7>0.9

This is crazy. MEM loses DL service to two large non-hub markets. And service to two hubs get put on life support, including all of New York. Unbelievable. To put into perspective, MEM-LGA will be down to the same frequency as the soon-to-be-cut ROA is today. That's hard to fathom.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:58 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 10):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

Taken as a group looks like retaliation by DL against B6

If I were DL Management….my thinking would go like this.

1) B6 are mostly boxed in at JFK
2) You do not want B6 to start to grow outside of JFK because if they succeed, by default they get stronger at JFK.
3) B6 seems to have found a foothold at BOS

So…part of your business plan must now entail keeping B6 from growing any more at BOS….even if it means small losses for you….because if you don't it can mean even bigger losses down the road at JFK. You do not want B6 reaching critical mass like AS did out west.

Best defense is a good offense. Keep b6 "niche" at all costs.

Just my 2$
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:21 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
Quoting SANFan (Reply 15):This is a curious move by DL, something that hasn't happened before in recent memory:
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL DTW-SAN MAR 3>1.8 APR 3>1.5
I agree. Probably where the PDX plane came from now that it is running all year.

A very subtle olive branch to AS? "We know that you're building a nice little operation in SAN, so we'll pull a little bit of capacity out in exchange for the mass of capacity that we're adding in SEA... Truce?"
 
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knope2001
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:21 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 18):
--FNT yields have not been good for years

To clarify, FNT yields have not been good for years because of FL and now WN. Not because of the economic woes of Flint itself.

On the contrary -- the Flint airport serves a large and affluent-enough market to support LCC service which keeps fares as low as they are. Without that market the FNT airport probably looks more like Kalamazoo -- high fares, limited service and lot of leakage of what does exist.
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:25 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 23):
So…part of your business plan must now entail keeping B6 from growing any more at BOS….even if it means small losses for you….because if you don't it can mean even bigger losses down the road at JFK. You do not want B6 reaching critical mass like AS did out west.

Best defense is a good offense. Keep b6 "niche" at all costs.

If your theory holds any validity, DL is about 5 years too late to the party.

B6 serves over 50 destinations from BOS and is the largest carrier by a meaningful margin. DL cannot do anything to stop B6 from continuing to grow at BOS as they have already reached critical mass.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:33 pm

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 26):
If your theory holds any validity, DL is about 5 years too late to the party.

B6 serves over 50 destinations from BOS and is the largest carrier by a meaningful margin. DL cannot do anything to stop B6 from continuing to grow at BOS as they have already reached critical mass.

Anything is a subjective term….I remember the days when the popular belief was that none of the other carriers could do "anything to stop PA"….look at were we are today.

The airline business is a fickle one…..better late to the party than never…,,and if you can drive your competitors yields down while stealing a few J pax…….you are halfway home.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
dlflynhayn
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:45 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL LAX-HNL APR 3>4 MAY 3>4 JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4

I hope this sticks cause last summer was just bad,..Went via NRT just to get to HNL for the first time ever that trip hurt but you do what you have to just to get to work  ....
 
apodino
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:47 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 22):
In my book this was a star. Only 8x even during the summer? It's getting tough to connect through DET from MSP. Frequency and gauge is way down since pre-DL, and the flights are packed. So the good fares are all through - you guessed it - ATL.

What does connections have to do exactly? MSP and DTW are both DL hubs last time I checked, so realistically there are not many places that MSP are going to use DTW to connect to that they can't already reach non stop from MSP. If you are talking about Europe, then there is JFK, plus AMS or CDG from MSP. If you are talking about Asia, you have NRT already from MSP. There is absolutely no reason for a DL pax to have to connect through DTW to too many places, period. This is mainly an attempt at making sure the loads are right sized for O and D heavy traffic, which is what this route should be predicated on.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 23):

If I were DL Management….my thinking would go like this.

1) B6 are mostly boxed in at JFK
2) You do not want B6 to start to grow outside of JFK because if they succeed, by default they get stronger at JFK.
3) B6 seems to have found a foothold at BOS

So…part of your business plan must now entail keeping B6 from growing any more at BOS….even if it means small losses for you….because if you don't it can mean even bigger losses down the road at JFK. You do not want B6 reaching critical mass like AS did out west.

Best defense is a good offense. Keep b6 "niche" at all costs.

I don't buy this at all. First of all, DL's big hub in NYC is at LGA, not JFK, so B6 is only going to be a threat to DL on trans cons and Caribbean flying out of JFK. Most of the DL money that is made at JFK is made overseas. B6 is not going to threaten this anytime soon. Secondly, regardless of what happens in BOS, B6 has made themselves pretty strong at MCO and FLL, which also improves JFK. Third of all, if DL is trying to compete from JFK, they screw themselves at LGA by default because of too many seats in the market from multiple airports.

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):

Quoting apodino (Reply 14):
This is actually a US route.

But B6 is the target.

Quoting apodino (Reply 14):
Then again, DL may have not had much luck on this route and they are moving it to RIC to hit a bigger catchment area.

That's probably also true, but because B6 made RIC cheaper.

B6 may be the target, but by launching this route DL may be helping B6 inadvertently rather than hurting them. By launching this route at 2X daily, now you have three airlines in the BOS-RIC market, which I do not believe can support three airlines. I believe DL may end up getting US off the route instead of B6, which then puts DL in a difficult position. I don't know how yields were to ORF, but I think DL would have been better off letting US and B6 duke it out here, rather than risk their own losses on the route, and focus on ORF where they have a monopoly. Not only that, but it also gives a merged US/AA a chance to redeploy the aircraft to a more profitable route, and I would make the argument that a combined US/AA is going to be a much bigger threat to DL long term than B6. DL seems to be making this personal with B6 for some reason, and I can't figure out why because B6 doesn't serve ATL.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:07 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 22):
Oooh, this was a good week to discuss changes. As always, thanks for posting the OAG reports.

 
Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 22):
WN must be happy to pick up the additional connecting traffic.

Given their loads...:D

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 22):
This is crazy. MEM loses DL service to two large non-hub markets.

Actually what is crazy is that they add BOS-RIC making themselves the third airline, but leave MEM-BOS which was a monopoly. That's just over-competitiveness run amok.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 23):
1) B6 are mostly boxed in at JFK
2) You do not want B6 to start to grow outside of JFK because if they succeed, by default they get stronger at JFK.
3) B6 seems to have found a foothold at BOS

Agreed

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 23):
So…part of your business plan must now entail keeping B6 from growing any more at BOS….even if it means small losses for you….

I think it's too late

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 24):
A very subtle olive branch to AS?

Very, very subtle since they don't fly it.

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
First of all, DL's big hub in NYC is at LGA, not JFK

That's arguable. I'm sure JFK has more ASMs and that is what drives revenue more than who has the most departures.

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
B6 is not going to threaten this anytime soon.
Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
DL seems to be making this personal with B6 for some reason, and I can't figure out why because B6 doesn't serve ATL.

I think what you miss is that DL is peeved with AS because they want exclusive feed in SEA. By code sharing with everybody DL feels they are allowing their competitors to compete on equal footing with them. That has them mad. Guess what? Same situation in JFK. B6 is doing the same thing. The unwashed in NYC can code share with B6 and gain access to a lot of feed. Difference is that DL has less leverage with B6 than AS.

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
By launching this route at 2X daily, now you have three airlines in the BOS-RIC market, which I do not believe can support three airlines.

Agreed
 
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:16 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 30):
I think what you miss is that DL is peeved with AS because they want exclusive feed in SEA. By code sharing with everybody DL feels they are allowing their competitors to compete on equal footing with them. That has them mad. Guess what? Same situation in JFK. B6 is doing the same thing. The unwashed in NYC can code share with B6 and gain access to a lot of feed. Difference is that DL has less leverage with B6 than AS.

I think AS and B6 are two different apples. For one thing, DL is trying to turn SEA into a west coast Asian Gateway, and that is pretty obvious. Secondly, SEA does not have nearly the amount of international service that JFK does. AS has long been codesharing with both AA and DL in SEA. The only reason its a big deal now is because DL wants an Asian Gateway in SEA, but AS won't give them enough feed for these flights, so DL instead is retaliating against AS by launching service of their own to several cities from SEA.

As for JFK, I don't know how many codesharing agreements B6 has with airlines that serve JFK. DL certainly has the entire SkyTeam alliance they can feed in JFK, plus Virgin Atlantic, in addition to their own service. Interestingly enough though, B6 has codeshares with both VS and KE in JFK, and those are both SkyTeam airlines.
 
globalflyer
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:24 pm

*V2 GPT-PIE DEC 0.7>0 JAN 0.7>0 FEB 0.7>0 MAR 0.7>0 APR 0.7>0 MAY 0.7>0 JUN 0.7>0 JUL 0.7>0

Is this V2's last scheduled service?
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
 
MSPNWA
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:25 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):

What does connections have to do exactly?

There's many small to medium-sized markets in the Carolinas, Virginias, and other eastern states that either don't have service or have very limited service from MSP but do have service from DTW. And much of the Upper Midwest is only served by MSP. So a MSP-DTW single connect or double connect isn't uncommon. But now it's getting very difficult to do so. DL wants you to go MSP-ATL instead. ORD doesn't look so bad.
 
SouthernDC9
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:31 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 30):
Actually what is crazy is that they add BOS-RIC making themselves the third airline, but leave MEM-BOS which was a monopoly. That's just over-competitiveness run amok.

DL had MEM-BOS on the map they put out for their alliance with Virgin Atlantic, which I thought was maybe a good sign that they saw some potential for that... but I think seeing such "good signs" is one of the stages of grief. MEM will end up pretty much like LIT or JAN.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 22):
This is crazy. MEM loses DL service to two large non-hub markets. And service to two hubs get put on life support, including all of New York. Unbelievable. To put into perspective, MEM-LGA will be down to the same frequency as the soon-to-be-cut ROA is today. That's hard to fathom.

US seems to have made quite a bit of headway in MEM, with bigger (some mainline) planes to CLT and the seemingly successful service to DCA... AA currently has DFW, ORD and MIA... I wonder if the "new" AA could build on that and become somewhat dominant in MEM the way they are in LIT and XNA? (I've always loved that AA has such a special relationship with AArkansas.) I think this is the "bargaining" stage of grief, yes?
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
 
michman
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:50 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 22):
In my book this was a star. Only 8x even during the summer? It's getting tough to connect through DET from MSP. Frequency and gauge is way down since pre-DL, and the flights are packed. So the good fares are all through - you guessed it - ATL.

Looks like they are dropping the 9:40PM DTW-MSP and MSP-DTW flights. Seems like these are pretty important for getting home to DTW or MSP on the last flight banks from a number of destinations. Perhaps this is just a temporary change?

[Edited 2013-11-11 13:05:06]
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:01 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 27):
The airline business is a fickle one…..better late to the party than never…,,and if you can drive your competitors yields down while stealing a few J pax…….you are halfway home.

BOS doesn't have significant strategic importance to DL. By your logic, DL should be increasing FLL and SJU flying too.

B6 and DL have been competitors for a long time. They have both shown discipline to capacity and have been careful with "retaliation." I don't think these additions from BOS are indicative of a reversal of this trend.

Quoting apodino (Reply 29):
DL seems to be making this personal with B6 for some reason, and I can't figure out why because B6 doesn't serve ATL.

It's being implied that this is a reaction to B6's recent announcement of BOS-DTW with 300 seats each way.

Who knows, I might be wrong. I think that if DL were "retaliating," it would be a lot more obvious.

I also think Atlanta is on the short list for new domestic destinations to be announced from BOS.

jetbluefan1
 
bobnwa
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:05 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
DL got booted from PIT-BOS when they tried that.


Which airline drove DL from PIT-BOS and when?
 
compensateme
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:24 pm

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 16):

I agree with michman in that if you're determined to get rid of the CRJ-200s that route (DTW-FNT) has to go. I wonder if DTW-MBS will go as well or just be altered to fewer frequencies and a CRJ-900. I think we can expect much more of this in the remaining CRJ-200 stations.

The cancellation of FNT-DTW has nothing to do with the dwindling 50-seat fleet or competition from WN (which is actually failing - more on the topic at the end of this post) but rather the dynamics of the market. FNT is merely a second gateway into DTW, particularly its northern suburbs - Flint itself is not a sustainable market. Much of the market will choose whichever airport offers a better fare; even if FNT-DTW flights were heavily profitable for DL, service is undesirable because it takes away potential profits. DL has attempted to remedy this by restricting travel via DTW on its lowest-priced tariffs (in recent weeks, this has been rescinded ... now we know why), but apparently failed. To price-sensitive passengers, DL will continue to offer ATL (which has once again been upgauged to 3xM88 -> it had been scheduled as CR9, 319 & M88 for the winter season).

I've written this before and have gotten flamed by our resident ATL fanboi, but price-sensitive passengers are a big part of DL's business and an integral part of the design of ATL -- and the primary reason for the breadth of mainline jet service, especially to smaller markets. There's a reason why DL's found success in flying mainline equipment into Heartland communities (in which ATL's geographically challenged in handling connections) it failed with 50-seaters during the economic hayday, despite the fact that the local market's flat. ATL-FNT is merely another piece of that strategy.

---

WN's performance has been horrendous at FNT, starting out with LF less than 40%; last month was their best month, but even then LF (on reduced capacity) were in the low 50%. And based on rough analysis on published data, BWI's been in the 20%-30% range. WN has accepted responsibility for this, stating that they failed to market their service in FNT like they should've, and that consumers were confused when their beloved FL flights disappeared. But fares (and quarterly averages) remain low -- LAS-FNT on Dec. 1 (the Sunday post-Thanksgiving, which is the busiest travel day in the USA) was selling for $99 (!!) until recently.

Alas, FNT's management bought into analysis by the Boyd Group in embarking on ambitious expansion, even after the Great Recession. If WN withdraws service, DL is likely to follow suit (might as well follow the money and "force" those passengers to drive to DTW, MBS & LAN). It's very possible, if not probable, that by the end of the decade, FNT - which had forecasted 3M passengers - could merely retain a link (three 50-seat flights) to ORD on AA/UA and seasonal Florida service by a niche carrier such as Allegiant.
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:27 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 31):
Secondly, SEA does not have nearly the amount of international service that JFK does.
Quoting apodino (Reply 31):
but AS won't give them enough feed for these flights

The issue isn't AS giving DL enough feed. In both cases having access to connecting traffic is critical to being able to profitably serve JFK or SEA for int'l carriers. If B6 or AS is available for hire to provide that feed then DL has a disadvantage because the other carrier has effectively a hub on both ends of the flight. DL doesn't like that.

Quoting apodino (Reply 31):
Interestingly enough though, B6 has codeshares with both VS and KE in JFK, and those are both SkyTeam airlines.

I'm sure that is already in their craw. Expect VS to end soon.

Quoting globalflyer (Reply 32):
Is this V2's last scheduled service?

Who knows. didn't that just pop up a week ago?

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 36):
Who knows, I might be wrong. I think that if DL were "retaliating," it would be a lot more obvious.

I also think Atlanta is on the short list for new domestic destinations to be announced from BOS.

People say that, but they can't get a billboard and announce it. There are some laws.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 37):
Which airline drove DL from PIT-BOS and when?

Isn't DL out of the market?
 
MaverickM11
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:44 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Y4 MDW-MEX DEC 0.7>0.3 JAN 0.9>0 FEB 0.9>0 MAR 0.8>0 APR 0.9>0 MAY 0.9>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.9>0
Y4 OAK-MEX JAN 0.5>0 FEB 0.6>0 MAR 0.6>0 APR 0.5>0 MAY 0.6>0 JUN 0.6>0 JUL 0.5>0
Y4 ORD-MEX DEC 0>0.5 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0

Interesting move from MDW to ORD, a new station.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
FlyPIJets
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:57 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
Quoting apodino (Reply 14):
There has been so much focus about what US is doing with slots at DCA, that we forget about DL and the LGA slots that were also a part of the deal.

True. I should have starred the ROA drop. Missed it.

Sad ROA has had LGA service since forever... I understand keeping the status quo is no reason to continue. But ouch for ROA.
Rex Kramer: Get that finger out of your ear! You don't know where that finger's been!
 
SANFan
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:02 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 24):
A very subtle olive branch to AS? "We know that you're building a nice little operation in SAN, so we'll pull a little bit of capacity out in exchange for the mass of capacity that we're adding in SEA... Truce?"

Hmmmm, or how about this scenario: "Thanks for cutting your service between SAN and DTW, Delta. We've (totally) coincidentally decided that in March, we'll be starting SAN-DTW ourselves. And btw, we sure appreciate you entering SAN-SEA next summer."

bb
 
THEFLLFLYER
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:11 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 38):
LAS-FNT on Dec. 1 (the Sunday post-Thanksgiving, which is the busiest travel day in the USA) was selling for $99 (!!) until recently.

Airlines always have cheap fares to LAS over Thanksgiving....very few VFR pax headed there for the holiday.
 
bobnwa
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:28 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
Isn't DL out of the market?


Yes they are out of themarket but no airline drove them out. Airlines are quite frequently not in a market, does that mean some one drove them out? I don't think so.
 
compensateme
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:33 pm

As always, I appreciate the thread but find the overanalysis to be entertaining; much of what's occurring is merely routine adjustments.

For example:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL DTW-SAN MAR 3>1.8 APR 3>1.5

DTW-SAN:

March 13: 7 weekly 320, 6 weekly 757
March 14: 13 weekly 738
Roughly a 3% capacity reduction -- fairly routine and nothing to get excited about.

April 13: 13 weekly 738
April 14: 7 weekly 738, 4 weekly 757
Roughly a 15% capacity reduction - somewhat significant, but in-line with day-of-week reductions. Still plenty of time to change.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL DTW-SFO MAR 4>3

previously scheduled as: 3x738, 739
now scheduled as: 2x739, 763
(slight capacity reduction)

March 2013: 738, 757, 763
(slight capacity increase)
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
JetBlueCLT
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:38 pm

The actions Delta is par taking is totally uncalled for. They are really just wasting there capital on doing this. B6 already has a strongfoot hold in BOS. It just keeps getting better Like others said, Delta is a little late to the party on trying to box B6 in. I gotta say, Delta is messing with a totally different JetBlue than the B6 back in 03. B6 is well known they have the loyalty in BOS... I honestly think JetBlue is going to give Delta a good beat down on this.
 
pit
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:05 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
Which airline drove DL from PIT-BOS and when?

Isn't DL out of the market?

B6 and US both drove DL out.

DL ran 3x daily and the flights would be quarter full at best.

The evening flight was timed for connections on the BOS-LHR flight. Not sure what other connections they were hoping for..
 
brooklynchris13
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:33 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 CMH-TTN JAN 0.3>0.1

Kind of surprised this didn't get a (*) unless I missed a subsequent post. Does this spell the beginning of the end of F9's experimental return to CMH?
"Be the change you want to see in the world" (mg)
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: OAG Changes 11/15/2013: DL/UA/Y4/ZK

Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:02 am

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Taken as a group looks like retaliation by DL against B6
*DL DTW-BOS MAR 7>8 APR 7>8 MAY 7>8
*DL BOS-CUN MAY 0>0.2 JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1
*DL BOS-JAX MAR 0>0.9 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0
*DL BOS-NAS MAR 0>0.1 APR 0>0.1 MAY 0>0.2 JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1
*DL BOS-ORF MAR 1.8>0 APR 1.9>0 MAY 1.8>0 JUN 2>0 JUL 2>0
*DL BOS-PLS MAR 0>0.1 APR 0>0.1 MAY 0>0.2 JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1
*DL BOS-RIC MAR 0>1.9 APR 0>2 MAY 0>2 JUN 0>2 JUL 0>2
*DL JFK-PLS MAR 0>0.1 APR 0>0.1 MAY 0>0.2 JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1

I'm not saying you're wrong, but you also have to bear in mind that DL has been adding a few different Sat-only destinations from BOS lately (MYR, CHS, CUN on and off) and now these. Also, DL has had a decent 50-seater focus-city-like operation at BOS for a while now. This is just moving two flights to a new destination. Also, look at what DL has been doing with NAS recently. They have been adding a bunch of once-weekly seasonal flights to smaller destinations. BOS doesn't seem that out of the ordinary when looked at from that perspective. B6 entering DTW probably had something to do with this, but I'm willing to bet it isn't ALL a reaction to it.
I am glad to JFK getting some new service! 
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