G500
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Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:12 pm

These days the Gulf carriers, Emirates, Etihad & Qatar enjoy the spotlight, it seems like they can't do no wrong (specially EK).... Pilots from all over the world want to work for them, investors want to get on that bandwagon and cash-in, passengers love the service, they even have a say in how manufacturers design airplanes...Everything seems to be bouncing in their favor..

Is it accurate to think that throught the 1990s, Singapore and Cathay were the "Emirates of the 90s"??

I remember Cathay and Singapore were considered the best airlines in the world back in the 90s, they were making money, expanding, lots of appeal, etc

opinions welcome....
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:17 pm

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
Is it accurate to think that throught the 1990s, Singapore and Cathay were the "Emirates of the 90s"??

I think its correct to think of these, then, as such. They were part of the Asian Tigers wave after all.
 
AA737-823
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:08 pm

In my opinion, Cathay and Singapore were better then, and better regarded, than the ME3 (Emirates, Etihad, Qatar) are today, and in fact probably remain so.
You don't see Singapore or Cathay going ten-abreast in their 777-3ERs, something that Emirates is all about.
And the health of the ME3 is tied into the health of the oil industry, though tourism and connecting traffic are also gaining ground; I'm not sure that the health of the Asian carriers was ever linked to one specific crutch like oil, whereas any city in the world can be made a connecting hub, so it's a non-factor.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:17 pm

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
Is it accurate to think that throught the 1990s, Singapore and Cathay were the "Emirates of the 90s"??

I disagree. SQ and CX lacked the major advantage of DXB's geographical location which permits EK to connect a huge number of major markets. SIN is really only a good hub between Europe and Australia and a few neighbouring points in South East Asia. Most other connections via SIN involve a lot of unnecessary flying. For example, it's much too far south to serve as a good hub for traffic between North America and Asia except SIN and the immediate vicinity such as Indonesia and Malaysia which are very small markets from/to North America.

And, for CX, HKG's easterly location in Asia doesn't permit it to serve as a good hub for as many markets as DXB.

[Edited 2013-11-12 13:55:14]
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:18 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
connecting traffic

This is the true key I believe. The geographic position of these emirates (is Qatar an emirate?) puts them in pretty much non-stop position to the world. This was SQ's strength too, linking Europe to Australia, the US to SE Asia. Even today, passengers flying from Australia/New Zealand to much of Asia will go via SIN.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
one specific crutch

Cathay's was of course being the gateway to the dragon, now the dragon has many.
come visit the south pacific
 
directorguy
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:47 pm

Based purely on anecdotes, I'd say that back in the day, CX and SQ certainly knew how to create a wow factor that allowed their names/brands to be associated with a certain level of service that raised the bar very high. Today, the ME3 have succeeded in creating similar brands for themselves (whether the hype matches the actual service is of course another matter). Both the ME3 and SQ/CX come from countries that were formerly Third World obscure backwaters (more true in the case of the ME3 home countries) that managed to undergo rapid transformations and become financial/trade hubs.
One could also add that CX/SQ raised the bar for other Asian airlines as well. The ME3 have also done the same for other Middle Eastern airlines. TK, MS, and even SV have all begun emulating the former in terms of expansion strategy and service quality where possible.
 
a380787
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:59 pm

Just look at their F/J products

SQ/CX : timeless
EK : tasteless (all the bling bling gold you can get from donald trump)

While EK is flooding the market with dirt cheap Y fares to fill their 10-abreast 777s, SQ/CX continues to provide a top quality F/J product and 9-abreast Y class
 
tortugamon
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:05 pm

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):

CX and SQ were significant purchasers of very large aircraft with very large range which gave them a lot of exposure. The wealthy/business traveler were the most common customer for these long routes and therefore they adopted premium product.

As airlines prices have dropped and travel has increased while the size of the middle class has increased the average world traveler relatively less-affluent then was the case. As such, EK does not need as premium a product to gain growth. In fact, the more efficient they can make their product, the cheaper it will be and now premium seating is where you drive profits.

Its a very different consumer so its a different business model. Certainly EK has more impact on commercial aviation than CX and SQ.

tortugamon
 
AA737-823
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:36 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
SQ and CX lacked the major advantage of DXB's geographical location which permits EK to connect a huge number of major markets. SIN is really only a good hub between Europe and Australia and a few neighbouring points in South East Asia.
Quoting motorhussy (Reply 4):
The geographic position of these emirates (is Qatar an emirate?) puts them in pretty much non-stop position to the world.

You guy's perspective on location takes into account some things I hadn't considered, and provides some interesting fodder for thought!
 
tortugamon
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:41 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
SQ and CX lacked the major advantage of DXB's geographical location which permits EK to connect a huge number of major markets.

I don't necessarily agree. DXB does not have an advantage over SIN/HKG when it comes to regional Asian travel and that is where much of the growth is. Nor is it useful for Americas/Asia travel where HKG is beneficial. DXB has an advantage in linking Asia/Oceana with Europe/Africa and much of their growth has come from pulling share from European legacies.

There is an advantage but its an intercontinental one.


tortugamon
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:51 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 9):
There is an advantage but its an intercontinental one.

Which is where EK is positioning itself, as an intercontinental carrier. EK has never aspired to be a regionally dominat player (although it is in the middle east).

An interesting blog on washington post highlights a key point.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...s/files/2013/08/population-map.jpg

The image has a circle. Movement of traffic within the circle is dominated by SQ, CX, TG etc however its movement from the circle to outside where ME carriers are better positioned.
 
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Coal
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:22 am

Given that a huge chunk of economic activity is coming from China, India, and ASEAN, I believe SQ and CX will be better positioned for the premium end of the market vs. the ME3.

I think what SQ needs to do is to have stronger links with ET and SA in order to capture more and more Africa - East Asia traffic, while at the same time taking over some of MI's China routes and putting wide body SQ birds on those.

I also think SQ will continue to benefit from increased economic growth in ASEAN, which in itself as a region is the third-largest emerging market economy behind China and India, way ahead of Russia and Brazil.

If ASEAN can get its act together and eventually approve AEC (ASEAN Economic Community), which I highly doubt will happen in 2015, then SQ will definitely be very well positioned for continued growth. I think the key will be whether or not secondary cities in SE Asia will develop the same way secondary cities in China have developed (and attracted non-stop European air service).

As for CX, I think they are very well positioned to continue to capture the growth in China. Geographically, they can serve Australian, North American, and European traffic connecting to 2nd and 3rd tier cities in China through KA and through a very strong brand vs. Chinese airlines.

Cheers
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tortugamon
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:22 am

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 10):

Right you are. There are two cities in North America and one in Europe with 5 million people but there are 30 such cities within 2,250nm from HKG. That is where the longer term growth is.

I also think the 787's rise will mean less dependency on Middle East carriers.


tortugamon
 
klinit
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:45 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 6):

While EK is flooding the market with dirt cheap Y fares to fill their 10-abreast 777s

Just out of curiosity - which markets are EK flooding with dirt cheap Y fares? Ex Australia they're always up the more expensive end of the spectrum (I only travel Y)... then again flights from Australia always need a connection - so I'm guessing markets where they add an unnecessary connection?
 
BoeingMerica
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:49 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
777-3ERs,

Wait, they didn't go 10 abreast in a plane type they didn't have? Completely apples to oranges.

Also, I think the seat abreast numbers are way over hyped on A.net. Are you telling me you would seriously derive pleasure and comfort from your journey in a 9 abreast cabin, yet it becomes a horrid nightmare sardine cattle car if one more seat is added. A seat, I might add, that it's spaced was mainly derived from material savings in other seats, and aisle shrinkage.

Seems pretty out there if you ask me. Now the reported 11 EK wants is a different ball game, compared to 9; but then again, I don't think we will see 11 as a reality. It is something the revenue analysts want.

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sailas
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:54 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 4):

no. Qatar is a state. Emirate states are lead by emirs. Emirate = one of of the UAE emirate out of Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Ajman, Fujairah, Ras al Khaimah, sharjah and umm al quwain.

I thought CX had 10 abreast 777-300 on their regional cabin?
Airlines been on: AY, LX, SR, OS, SK, KF, EZY, FR, BA, LH, AF, TG, DC, FC, TK, KL, BT, CX, QR
 
EL-AL
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:56 am

Regarding Cathay, It couldn't be any "emirates" during the 90s - it's hub, Kai-Tak, had very limited capacity, single runway and out of date terminal. In addition, the 90s were days of unknown future to Hong Kong and Cathay included, as no one know how Beijing will handle HK after the handover. Both the handover and the new airport took place only in july 1997, with most of the 90s decade has passed.
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CX Flyboy
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:48 am

Quoting sailas (Reply 15):
I thought CX had 10 abreast 777-300 on their regional cabin?

No we don't. We have a 3-3-3 config in economy class on all our 777s.
 
AyostoLeon
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:54 am

Quoting sailas (Reply 15):

Not quite true. Emirate = state ruled by an Emir. The ruler of Qatar is in fact an Emir.

At one time Qatar was in discussions with Bahrain and the Trucial States to form a federation following independence from Britain. The federation didn't materialise so Qatar remained a separate Emirate while the Trucial states combined to form the UAE.

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 10):

The map shows the enormous potential for growth in the years ahead and at the centre of the circle is BKK. Certainly the number of airlines visiting and number of passenger movements has increased. But what steps are Thai carriers like TG taking to take greater advantage of movements from within the circle to places outside of it?
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jumpjet
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:48 pm

Quoting klinit (Reply 13):
While EK is flooding the market with dirt cheap Y fares to fill their 10-abreast 777s

I must have missed those, damn!   
 
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qf2220
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:49 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
SQ and CX lacked the major advantage of DXB's geographical location
Quoting tortugamon (Reply 7):
while the size of the middle class has increased

I think we need to consider these two concepts together. SQ and CX were well placed for where the travelling class was at the time and therefore had and to a degree (especailly CX) still have. The Kangaroo route being a significant source of middle class traffic between Aus and Europe had a larger share of traffic now than it did (compared to the Europe/Asia/Oceanea/Africa travel basin) and SQ and CX were well placed to capitalise on this traffic (SQ moreso than CX). They had more to do with the European/Oceanic carriers moving off the route in those years, which the ME3 finished off. SQ and CX are less well suited to some Asia-Europe and Africa-Europe routes than the ME3 hence a slight waning of their halos (especially SQ).

In terms of aircraft orders etc, definately, they were pretty signficant at the time, however they were relatively equal to other carrier orders. EK particularly is in a different category with its large orders. Re pax experience, they are probably much of a muchness in a lot of respects, just with different regional preferences.
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:56 pm

While everybody is talking about SQ and CX in the 90's there was another airline in my humble opinion who was better than both, i am talking about NH, in those days i used to travel a lot to the far east and they were my airline of choice out of IAD.
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parapente
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:09 pm

Is it accurate to think that throught the 1990s, Singapore and Cathay were the "Emirates of the 90s"??

Very ineresting question posed.Perhaps in their day they were. Indeed still are to some extent (in their area).

No doubt as has been stated above (perhaps someone should show a map) it is about location. If crudely one thinks of one side of the globe as "The Pacific Ocean" which it is nearly,then you look at the landmass on the other side - take a look at where Emirates is based. Bang slap in the centre.

Of course it's horses for courses. If Europeans and Americans which to visit each other then Emirates does not come into the equation any more than Americans going to S America or Japan/China for instance.But if an American wanted to go to India he no longer needs to go north to London or similar he will simply go via ME3.

But the other key is the way Emirates have reinvested their profits in expanding their route networks.This has given travelers far more point to point options that never existed before.No one wants that third extra journey!
 
sailas
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:12 pm

My dad flew a lot when i was in primary school in Geneva. He always had 2 choices in his mind when going east or west; SR and CX. He loved both. Even to this day, he still uses CX and moved to use LX. But out of the two he thinks CX is a bit better, but prefers the a340-300 the most.
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q120
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:20 pm

When money is infinite, anything is possible.
Everyone bends over and accepts.
This monstrosity will keep expanding like a blood sucking inspect.
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results
 
tjcab
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:32 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 6):
Just look at their F/J products

SQ/CX : timeless
EK : tasteless (all the bling bling gold you can get from donald trump)

...your opinion of course. Cultural differences. Look at the Europeans. IMO, mostly IKEA bland. Hey, this is what they like, and I'd say, they are pretty successful in doing it. Just wondering if you have actually tried all the products you quote.
 
AyostoLeon
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:33 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 21):

Undoubtedly NH has provided a quality service but due to the location of its hub has not enjoyed the same advantages of connectivity that others have and I wonder whether they actually strove to base their business on it. While SQ may have started out providing point to point services they early on saw the potential for offering connectivity. Same applies to EK which has emphasised its location as being able to connect so many people to so many places, even if the initial intent may have been to stimulate growth in Dubai, the Emirate rather than tne airport.

Quoting parapente (Reply 22):

The point about EK reinvesting profits to expand its network is a crucial distinction. That isn't to say that other airlines don't aspire to the same, but unlike many EK is able to take advantage of lower operating costs and the absence of private shareholders (among other factors) to be able to allocate a higher proportion of revenue to both starting new routes and modernising its fleet. This is the telling feature in claims that EK simply dumps capacity. If that were the case they might gain short term market share but in the longer term they would be unable to maintain existing routes without subsidy, let alone modernise and expand.
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airbazar
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:43 pm

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
Is it accurate to think that throught the 1990s, Singapore and Cathay were the "Emirates of the 90s"??

Not even close. Both CX and SQ had their own market which they built upon, whereas the ME carriers didn't have their own market and to a certain extent still don't. They are primarily connecting airlines. IIRC, SQ and CX were flying to SFO long before UA started flying to either HKG or SIN. SQ had a 747 shuttle between SIN and KUL and while some of that was for connections a huge amount was O&D traffic. CX was also limited by Kai Tak so they couldn't xpand freely. Then there is the service and soft product. SQ and CX are still to this day the leaders in this area, even against the new money of the ME carriers.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
In my opinion, Cathay and Singapore were better then, and better regarded, than the ME3 (Emirates, Etihad, Qatar) are today, and in fact probably remain so.

  
I agree 100%
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:08 pm

I've pointed out before the ME hubs grew that they were filling a gap in the lack of European and Indian hub growth. Now they are a force in their own right and mid-east traffic (even if you excluded the ME3) is growing amazingly fast due to the region integrating into the global economy.

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 1):
They were part of the Asian Tigers wave after all.

And took advantage of their geography to become major connection points in regions that lacked efficient competing hubs. The same as with the ME3. E.g., the amazing amount of Saudi traffic DXB now transfers (more pax/day than India!).

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
SQ and CX lacked the major advantage of DXB's geographical location which permits EK to connect a huge number of major markets.

SQ had a major advantage of being within 744 range of Europe and certainly took advantage of their geographic location. If you are implying the ME3 have far more growth room, I agree. In particular with Saudi trying to wean themselves off oil export revenue and further growth in China to Africa.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 4):
Cathay's was of course being the gateway to the dragon, now the dragon has many.

   But HKG is still going to add runways.    There will be future growth.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 27):
Both CX and SQ had their own market which they built upon, whereas the ME carriers didn't have their own market and to a certain extent still don't.

Been debunked in numerous threads. EK has 45% to 55% O&D traffic. Dubai has passed most other high end cities for tourism. They were before the 'Arab Spring' the ME distribution center for chemicals and pharma. Now, with the amazing influx from other countries, they are a trading hub in numerous industries.

Lightsaber
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infinit
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:13 pm

The Singapore government envisioned making SIN an airhub but never thought an SQ could compete if it's hub was so open. This was still in the time of Malaysia-Singapore Airlines. But SQ was supposedly the brainchild of JY Pillay (see http://infopedia.nl.sg/articles/SIP_659_2005-01-06.html ). He saw the airline being able to compete if it was the best in its league- having a competitive advantage in service.

SQ (or SIN) wasn't the first airline to build on the hub/connectivity model but by the 80s they begin to appear as a big success story .

From what I heard, EK was largely modeled after SQ

So I would agree with the thread starter's question at least from the point of view of business models.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:09 pm

Quoting infinit (Reply 29):
From what I heard, EK was largely modeled after SQ

   From the hubbing, hotel, and fleet planning strategies, they started that way. However, EK has grown enough to create its own model that works very well. e.g., working with cruise lines to increase O&D demand.

Lightsaber
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airbazar
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:13 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 28):
SQ had a major advantage of being within 744 range of Europe and certainly took advantage of their geographic location.

The 744 only arrived circa 1990. By then SQ already had a very expansive international network operating to all continents except S.America. I remember stopping in Dubai on the way to and from Europe when Dubai was nothing but a concrete shed in the middle of the desert. No one ever got on or off there. Yes SQ built a very strong regional hub but they've always had a tremendous amount of O&D traffic. More so with CX who couldn't really build a hub at Kai Tak.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 28):
Been debunked in numerous threads. EK has 45% to 55% O&D traffic.

Today they do but 12 years ago when they became the largest A380 customer, no, not even close. That was my point. SQ and CX started out by building out on their O&D while for EK and Co. the O&D only came after.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:21 am

Quoting parapente (Reply 22):
But if an American wanted to go to India he no longer needs to go north to London or similar he will simply go via ME3.

For many U.S.-India markets, it's actually slightly shorter via Europe than via the Gulf hubs. That's especially true from the east coast to points in northern India like DEL where it can be about 600 miles shorter via Europe. Not much difference to BOM but still slightly shorter via Europe.

Examples:

JFK-DEL nonstop 6359 nm
JFK-AMS-DEL 6608 nm
JFK-LHR-DEL 6641 nm
JFK-FRA-DEL 6663 nm
JFK-DXB-DEL 7133 nm
JFK-AUH-DEL 7199 nm
JFK-DOH-DEL 7207 nm

JFK-AMS-BOM 6873 nm
JFK-LHR-BOM 6898 nm
JFK-FRA-BOM 6902 nm
JFK-DXB-BOM 6992 nm
JFK-AUH-BOM 7033 nm
JFK-DOH-BOM 7066 nm

From the west coast the differences are small via Europe. It's often shorter via the Pacific from the west coast, especially via Japan/Korea/China to northern India.

LAX-AMS-DEL 8290 nm
LAX-LHR-DEL 8383 nm
LAX-FRA-DEL 8357 nm
LAX-DXB-DEL 8428 nm
LAX-PEK-DEL 7491 nm
LAX-ICN-DEL 7725 nm
LAX-NRT-DEL 7933 nm
LAX-HKG-DEL 8334 nm

LAX-AMS-BOM 8555 nm
LAX-LHR-BOM 8640 nm
LAX-FRA-BOM 8596 nm
LAX-DXB-BOM 8287 nm
LAX-ICN-BOM 8208 nm
LAX-NRT-BOM 8406 nm
LAX-HKG-BOM 8619 nm
 
bharathkv
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:40 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
Most other connections via SIN involve a lot of unnecessary flying. For example, it's much too far south to serve as a good hub for traffic between North America and Asia except SIN and the immediate vicinity such as Indonesia and Malaysia which are very small markets from/to North America.

Totally agree on the SQ distance from major markets. Also for North America to India traveling to singapore and then traveling to the destination is just more travel. SQ also does not connect the next flights quickly in those cases and force you to spend time and money at Changi.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:31 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 31):
The 744 only arrived circa 1990. By then SQ already had a very expansive international network operating to all continents except S.America

Which was impressive. But their 744 order, for the times, was seen as the EK A380 order. An order that turned out to be a stroke of genius for SQ.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 31):
Today they do but 12 years ago when they became the largest A380 customer

12 years ago when the A380 was having trouble launching and EK increased their order from 7 to 22? If EK had been smart they would have ordered all 90 at those prices!  
Quoting airbazar (Reply 31):
SQ and CX started out by building out on their O&D while for EK and Co. the O&D only came after.

Agreed. But DXB always had an 'open skies' policy. EK did thrive off transfer traffic at first. And? Its now a major city.

There is a reason promoting a city's economy off air service is called the "Emirates Effect."
http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/...e-economic-impact-of-air-services/

Heck, the route discussed in that link is still lower O&D, but profitable.

DL hubs at ATL with only 30% O&D. The fact EK has far surpassed that is fine. The harbor at Dubai used to be a 'wayport' (less than 30% of cargo offloaded for Dubai's use). It might still be. It is an excellent market.

But since about 2007, Dubai has been about 50/50 O&D.

Lightsaber
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Motorhussy
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:20 am

Quoting sailas (Reply 15):
no. Qatar is a state. Emirate states are lead by emirs.

Thank you, I'm aware that emirates are led by Emirs, sultanates by Sultans, indeed duchies by Dukes and so forth. However I was just pondering the state of Qatar's leadership which is not a state (in terms of federation) but indeed an emirate.
come visit the south pacific
 
airbazar
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:11 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
But since about 2007, Dubai has been about 50/50 O&D.

I agree with everything you say. I was just pointing out that SQ and CX did not start the same way the ME carriers did. CX could never have had a strong hub because of the constraints of Kai Tak, and SQ had a much more conservative growth over a much longer period. Granted it was a different era so arguably once could compare SQ to the ME carries but definitely not CX.
 
timpdx
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:45 pm

looking at Viscounts numbers, I have wondered why one of the Korean carriers has not agressively gone after Western USA to India flights. I know you can connect at ICN, but those connections are thin. OZ and KE have done very well connecting NA with China, lots of great connections there. India is quite sparse in comparison. The Korean 2 have really made a mark on East Asia.

As far as the EY dumping cheap seats? They are always or almost always the most expensive options to indea from LAX and SFO. I love to travel, but the thought of 10Y on a 16 + hour segment is scary. The A380 to LAX will be most welcome....until that goes 11Y.

[Edited 2013-11-14 06:49:08]
 
airbazar
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:49 pm

Quoting timpdx (Reply 37):
looking at Viscounts numbers, I have wondered why one of the Korean carriers has not agressively gone after Western USA to India flights.

I can think of a few reasons. Bilaterals and yields being 2 but most of all, US-East Asia is a huge and profitable market in its own right. Any passenger flying to India on a low fare would be occupying a higher yield seat on the US-Korea leg. Probably the same reason why the Japanese carriers don't do it either.
 
parapente
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RE: Were Cathay & Singapore The Emirates Of The 90s?

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:05 pm

Reply 32

For many U.S.-India markets, it's actually slightly shorter via Europe than via the Gulf hubs.


If you take the Northern city of America -New York to the Northern city of India - Delhi.Then as you say one gets a slightly smaller distance (but not one that will really make a huge difference).
But as you move south (on both continents)??? Think you will find 'advantage Emirates'
I have certainly met (not that this is stastical in any way) loads of Americans in transit when waiting for an Emirates plane in Dubai. I got the impression (perhaps wrongly) that this was now the prefered way for Americans to get there.