dcajet
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AR Orders 4 A330-200

Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:39 pm

Riding the coat tails of the Sydney flight cancellation, AR and Airbus signed today an agreement by which AR orders 4 A330-200 (in addition to the 4 that AR is getting this year). The 330s will replace some of the 340s and will be delivered in 2015 (two) and 2016 (two). The press release from AR does not specify engines or if it is the HGW version, which AR needs to deploy these planes to Madrid and Barcelona non stop from Bs Aires without penalties.

This is the second order of planes that AR has placed this month, as a few weeks ago, the airline ordered another 20 B737-800 from Boeing, to be delivered in the same timeframe as this batch of 330s.

Good to see AR finally getting some traction after more than 20 very dull years. Enhorabuena Aerolineas!

Source:

http://www.aerolineas.com.ar/es-AR/Prensa/ComunicadosPorAño/2013
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KarelXWB
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:56 pm

It's a MoU, both parties will have to work through the details first.

I guess we can rule out any A340-500 purchase.
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EPA001
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:11 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):
I guess we can rule out any A340-500 purchase.

Maybe as an interim solution?

But the chances for them buying used A340-500's are getting smaller with this MoU when it is converted into an order.
 
AR385
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:43 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 2):
But the chances for them buying used A340-500's are getting smaller with this MoU when it is converted into an order.

Given the reasons they gave for cancelling the EZE-SYD route, I doubt they will still acquire them, even as an interim solution.

Does the HGW version of the A330-200 fleet have the legs for the European routes nonstop? Especially coming back, from MAD. In summer there probably are penalties.

Interesting fleet strategy. Airbus for long-haul, Intercontinental transport and Boeing for short/regional flights.

I´m still not convinced cancelling the SYD route is a wise choice, but on the whole, they seem to be getting their act together. Good for them.
 
dcajet
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:58 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 3):
Does the HGW version of the A330-200 fleet have the legs for the European routes nonstop? Especially coming back, from MAD. In summer there probably are penalties.

The HGW version, is not operational yet, I believe, has the legs to make it from EZE to MAD and BCN without significant penalties. The current versions of the 330, deployed on the route MAD-EZE by Air Europa, oftentimes must make a pit stop on the way to Bs As, generally Salvador de Bahia o GIG. However, the 330 is the ideal chariot for AR's both N. and S America routes, capable of a 10 1/2 hr leg to JFK or a 2 hr shuttle to GRU.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 3):
I´m still not convinced cancelling the SYD route is a wise choice, but on the whole, they seem to be getting their act together. Good for them.

Well, lets think of the EZE-SYD route as a prestige flight, but detrimental to the bottom line. On top of that, because of its unique characteristics, it ended up dictating the whole long haul fleet - AR could not justify keeping one type just for SYD and for the time being the 340 is what there is. And the 200 which is the one that can make it from EZE is not what I would call up to date with its cabin furnishings. As the joke in AR goes, 'the 90's called, they want that Biz class complete with a fax machine back"

Additionally, the airline is under the microscope in the national press and in Congress, led by the opposition parties. So, AR's management has little room to maneuver without a single move of theirs being interpreted as "Mrs K" wants so. Which is nonsense - operationally there is no interference. It is in chasing Lan that the government uses AR as the stick with which they will hit 4M. Fortunately, the Courts in Buenos Aires ruled on Lan's side and things seem to have quieted down and Mrs K has found another "bete noire", most likely.

In other words, flying to Sydney was a liability, financially speaking. And AR needs to put the house in order after 20 years of mismanagement. Doubtless that AR will return to SYD one day, but wight the right equipment and in better financial health.
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AM777LR
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:11 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):

Is there something is missed? Is AR not getting the ex-SQ A345s anymore?
 
TK739ER
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:24 am

Sooo, I think this pretty much seals the deal about the A345s and I hope I'm wrong but everything points to that direction   like I said earlier in the other thread, I wish the best for AR with the new A330s and hopefully they will get their company together and start making money again but having less and less quads in the sky everyday is such a sad and boring thing to say the least, especially such a rare bird like A345

BTW, what engines AR has on their A330s and what engine on the new machines?
 
aircanadaa330
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:28 am

wow I did not see this coming. Nice to see AR ordering some new WB.

Perhaps the A345s are just a stop gap until the A330s arrive.
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Chaostheory
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:59 am

Quoting dcajet (Reply 4):
The HGW version, is not operational yet, I believe, has the legs to make it from EZE to MAD and BCN without significant penalties.

The EZE-MAD could be done by the 238T version too and that is in service now.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:01 am

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 2):
Maybe as an interim solution?

Brand new A330s are available from the end of 2015, I don't think one needs an interim solution for such a small period.

Quoting AM777LR (Reply 5):
Is there something is missed? Is AR not getting the ex-SQ A345s anymore?

The A340-500 story was a rumor, the previous thread was closed because the aircraft transfer will not take place.

A340-500 For Aerolineas Argentinas (by na Oct 28 2013 in Civil Aviation) (see last reply).
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txlbased
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:21 pm

small period? i think that two years are anything but small. if they are in the need of the aircraft NOW, its a long time they have to wait for them. But used A330 are hard to find, so they probably had no other choice.
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MD80Nut
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:10 pm

Good to see AR ordering new planes. Twenty new 738's is a big deal for them, they must be looking to expand their domestic / regional routes a lot. And the A330s make a lot of sense for them, I look forward to seeing them at MIA.

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trex8
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:54 pm

Are these additional planes for the fleet or are they to replace the recently leased old ILFC frames?
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:39 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 12):
Are these additional planes for the fleet or are they to replace the recently leased old ILFC frames?

Additional.
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Motorhussy
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:14 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 12):
Are these additional planes for the fleet or are they to replace the recently leased old ILFC frames?

Looks to me that they're to replace some A340's. Presumably the 4-ILFC frames will be to replace the 4 x A342's. But considering the airline is quoted as saying...

Quote:
Aerolineas's long-haul fleet primarily comprises A340s but the airline says the A330s will cut fuel costs by 19.5% compared with its A340-300s, and by 13.5% against its A340-200s.

They will be keeping the first four as well. Weird quote though as it's not comparing apples with apples as the A343 carries more people over longer sectors.

FlightGlobal article/brief at http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ively-signs-for-four-a330s-392916/
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zkokq
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:16 pm

Quoting ChaosTheory (Reply 8):

What about MAD-EZE? The return needs a stop currently and or is weight restricted.
 
SKY1
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:20 am

Quoting zkokq (Reply 15):
What about MAD-EZE? The return needs a stop currently and or is weight restricted

UX does the night time MAD-EZE service with the A332 and the flight is non-stop, no weight restricted. It's pretty similar to the Korean Air's ICN-MAD flight upon which lately is flown by A332

By the way, congratulations to AR as it seems this will be the first time in 4 decades to purchase a brand-new, wide-body aircraft. Better late than never.
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TK739ER
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:48 am

Quote:
Aerolineas's long-haul fleet primarily comprises A340s but the airline says the A330s will cut fuel costs by 19.5% compared with its A340-300s, and by 13.5% against its A340-200s.

Something doesn't add up here, isn't A342 a gas guzzler compare to A343? How come the savings are 19% compare to A343 and 13.5% compare to A342??? I'm a little confused.
 
doug_or
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:18 am

Quoting TK739ER (Reply 17):
Something doesn't add up here, isn't A342 a gas guzzler compare to A343? How come the savings are 19% compare to A343 and 13.5% compare to A342??? I'm a little confused.

Sounds like they're talking about total burn, not per seat.
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Motorhussy
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:04 am

Quoting TK739ER (Reply 17):
Something doesn't add up here, isn't A342 a gas guzzler compare to A343? How come the savings are 19% compare to A343 and 13.5% compare to A342??? I'm a little confused.

Yes, as I said...

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 14):
Weird quote though as it's not comparing apples with apples as the A343 carries more people over longer sectors.
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AF022
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:09 am

Quoting dcajet (Reply 4):
The HGW version, is not operational yet

Can someone kindly tell us about this HGW version? I don't know anything about it.
 
trex8
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:33 am

Quoting AF022 (Reply 20):
Can someone kindly tell us about this HGW version? I don't know anything about it.


http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...f-weight-and-fuel-capacity-379583/
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:26 am

Quoting AF022 (Reply 20):
Can someone kindly tell us about this HGW version? I don't know anything about it.

See http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...ability-to-extend-market-coverage/
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Pacific
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:53 am

To put it into context, the 242t Variant of the A330-200 has a nominal range of 7,250 nm/13,400 km. This is 100nm further than a MD-11ER and only 10nm shy of the Boeing 747-400.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:44 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 22):
Quoting AF022 (Reply 20):
Can someone kindly tell us about this HGW version? I don't know anything about it.

See http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...rage/
Quoting Pacific (Reply 23):
To put it into context, the 242t Variant of the A330-200 has a nominal range of 7,250 nm/13,400 km. This is 100nm further than a MD-11ER and only 10nm shy of the Boeing 747-400.

What kind of ETOPS clearance will this version have with AR when it enters service?
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Pacific
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:25 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 24):
What kind of ETOPS clearance will this version have with AR when it enters service?

While I have no clue, they only need ETOPS 120 to make it to Western Europe with no trouble.
http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=E...GE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=&ETOPS=120
 
Motorhussy
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RE: AR Orders 4 A330-200

Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:10 am

Quoting Pacific (Reply 25):
While I have no clue, they only need ETOPS 120 to make it to Western Europe with no trouble.

The reason I asked is that this will have the range, but not the ETOPS clearance presumably, for a resumption of the EZE-AKL-SYD service.
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